Aberrant: 200X - The 200X Bible is in this Thread. Discuss.

[Jordan]

James, She got attacked. Very personally. For no good reason.

People went after her. Not her opinions but her as a person. If it happened to you would you not be bitter, or at least put off?

Nova has taken on a big task; that of trying to please the majority of people here and lets face it, we are a fickle and demanding crowd. What did she get for her efforts? She got spit on and her character dragged through the mud by a faceless punk. For what? Trying to give birth to a new area of a gaming board? Does that really merit treating someone as sub-human?

You don't like what her project is turning into? Fine, have your say but be respectful. If after that you can't live with it then walk away.

I can't believe these things needed to be spelled out for adults.

[Jager]

Well, I am sorry your feelings got hurt. Truly. I am sorry that Overload went so far out of bounds, and he did, but that wasn't me and I am not going to apologize for him. I can only apologize for my own actions, sorry.

I don't feel the points I raised were were wrong. That's why I argued them. It was not my intention to upset you but to right something I felt was wrong. I stand by what the points I made.

I'm not going to duck and cover in order to save my ass. That's not my nature. I will continue to bring up things I feel are wrong because I believe somebody should.

I await to see if you use your position as moderator to punish a voice of dissent.

[Jager]

Jordan, did I say anything in a hurtful or disrespectful manner? I don't remember it.

By the way, tell Velvet that some of us HAVE to take Lithium just to get by from day to day. You don't see me getting all pissy about that, now do you?

This is a gaming site I love. I love it enough to care what its latest incarnation is going to be like.

[Jordan]

No but neither did you stop and tell Overload what a fucktard he was being despite agreeing with his point/argument. At least not that I saw. If I'm wrong on that I'll gladly admit it after rereading the threads.

Look, I'm not going to get dragged into a discussion on the minutia of who said what and why x's comments validate or invalidate y's responses.

Look at it this way; If you overheard your kids calling some other kid a nazi faccist or using homophobic slurs would you let it slide? If the answer is no then why is that behavior tolerable here, amung adults and (supposedly) peers?

[Nova OOC]

What you wrote is not an apology. Let me explain:

Originally Posted By: Jager

Well, I am sorry your feelings got hurt. Truly.

A statement like the above is never an apology. You have shifted the blame onto me through use of the passive tense. See this Wikipedia article on non-apologies for further clarification if necessary.

Quote:

I am sorry that Overload went so far out of bounds, and he did, but that wasn't me and I am not going to apologize for him. I can only apologize for my own actions, sorry.

That's right. You cannot apologize for him. I would not ask that of you. I ask for an apology for your actions.

Quote:

I don't feel the points I raised were were wrong. That's why I argued them. It was not my intention to upset you but to right something I felt was wrong. I stand by what the points I made.

You could have made your points without hurting me. Regardless of your intent, you did hurt me.

Quote:

I'm not going to duck and cover in order to save my ass. That's not my nature. I will continue to bring up things I feel are wrong because I believe somebody should.

In other words you won't take responsibility for your actions. You have equated an apology for a wrong with "ducking and covering."

Quote:

I await to see if you use your position as moderator to punish a voice of dissent.

You don't need to wait. I'm telling you right now. You're not welcome in 200X. You've done a terrible thing to me, and I will not socialize with you until that is corrected. I don't come to N! Prime to have a bad time and hang out with people who fuck me over. I come to N! Prime to have a good time. Render a proper apology or stay out of 200X.

[Priest]

My kids are my business and they don't get away with doing that. This is not a parent-child relationship going on here, though.

Frankly, I didn't read most of Overload's posts, so I wasn't sure exactly what he was saying. If one adult behaves badly, I expect that one adult to be held accountable, not everyone in the same picket line.

[Jager]

Fine Nova. First tell me precisely what I did wrong please.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC 32 minutes and 33 seconds ago, which is not a long time.

You intentionally allied yourself with the most crude and obnoxious troll available out of political expediency. Regardless of the motherfucking that he was dishing out to me--and it was an overflowing plate--you allied yourself with him because his goals and your goals were aligned.

That's what you did.

[Jordan]

Regarding your kids and the people at this site; fair enough.

So when you read the posts of others chiding Overload for being a disgusting example of a human being your curiosity wasn't peaked enough to find out why people were saying these things yet your willing to bring up Vv's inapropriate comment about medication?

Sorry James but I'm not buying what your shoveling.

[Jager]

I regret that I was allied with Overload in this matter. I regret this became a personal matter and that things were said, or not done by me, that hurt you, Nova. It was never my intention to hurt you. I apologize.

[Nova OOC]

Apology accepted. You've done the right thing just now. Good job.

Sincerely.

[Jager]

Jordan, I was in the chat with most of the people involved with these posts were made, so I was talking to the posters, not reading the posts. I was also getting PM's on the matter.

On the post you were insulted by, I had to read up and find out just what had happened to find out what was going on with your outrage.

[Warren Verona]

I fucking love this place!

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Courier

Mechanically that's the same as 60 nova points, and I'm not sure what the point is.

50 nova points is enough for me to buy a nova with Q5 (10 points), Taint 1, 4 Elemental Masteries (Earth/Air/Fire/Water for 5 each) and STILL have 20 nova points left over for stats.

What is it that you can do with 60 points that you can't do with 50?

I have acharacter Ive been wanting to play who has only 1 dot in a lot of things but I required a broad range of abilities to get the (a bit unusual) theme down. Basically I need a whole mess of enhancments. The stripped version of this was about 70 NPs.

I find it interesting that we could start at Q3 and do find it funny that it is mechanically the same as 60 NP but more people liked it who say they didnt want 60.

[Warren Verona]

Quote:

I'd like to suggest that Quantum in the setting default to 3 rather than 1.

What's the verdict on this? After Jager and Nova's game of Grab Ass things spiraled away from this topic.

Mind you if his is allowed then we will end up with Q5 novas oozing from the wood work. Q3 to start, 14BG points for +2Q and voila! Q5 everywhere but not a good reason for it anywhere.

Since we are getting NPs every 6 months I see no reason for it. If you want to explore a Q5 Elemental Master spend the NPs for it and, like everyone else, master it slowly.

My two cents.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

I have acharacter Ive been wanting to play who has only 1 dot in a lot of things but I required a broad range of abilities to get the (a bit unusual) theme down. Basically I need a whole mess of enhancments. The stripped version of this was about 70 NPs.

So that's what your tantrums were about? A 70NP character that you wanted to play, so you complain, attack ruthlessly, and flail your arms about in hopes that you'll get your way?

Dick.

[Hugin]

I'm assuming Q1 until something official comes along.

Reading the various arguments has me thinking that Q1 and 50 is the best way to go.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

Dick.

See rule #1.

[SkyLion]

I would just like to say that i didnt insult anyones sexuality in here. I have no reason to do so. Likewise none of my statements should be construed as personal. I dont know any of you in RL so I only have the forums to go by.

I was a little uppity at first because I felt that myself and other were disregarded. I felt (and still feel) like Nova is holier than thou and despite claiming she does this for us her initial post essentially ignored a good portion of the votes/poll whatever.

It was only after I was subjected to ridicule and shame in an attempt to shut me up that I got real nasty. Trying to silence someone who's views arent in alignment with your own to me smacks of yes, the kind of treatment the media gets in fascist countries. The idea of freezing canon and setting all these limits to sort of "sanitize" the world and basically critiscizing us who want our stories to be games as well felt haughty and elitist.

Honestly I am REAL surprised Nova let it get to her so badly...if you get so bent out of shape from someone being mad at you online ...well thats just silly. I was mad about the whole thing but I didnt let that bleed into my life.

I admit I got nasty but even Matt agreed with me that Nova's arrogance was appalling. That whole "good bye Jager" thing was a just *so* petty to me. He didnt insult you. *I* did. because you insulted me.

And now I am being called a dick.

If Chosen or the rest of you want to ban me from this new forum go ahead. Otherwise I dont care Nova if you dont want to "socialize" with me in the new boards. It would seem odd however for such OOC dramas to affect our IC interactions between characters that have no animosity.

[Nova OOC]

That doesn't read like an apology to me.

[Wargear]

Hugin (and Rev),

I'm actually making the argument from the perspective that "spend the Nova points and master it slowly", when spread over the course of years, is a pretty poor way to construct stories. If we were in a tabletop game, racking up the XP to raise Quantum and explore a new power is a matter of weeks or two, three months (depending on how much you play). If, for six months after you create the character, you live with what you bought at creation? And after those six months, you can buy... oh, let's see, a dot of Elemental Mastery and some pocket change?

Conversely, compare that to someone who tweaks out a character with Mental Blast, Telepathy, Armor, and a whole range of other low Quantum powers. Power level? Probably signifigantly above the Elemental Master. And the NP that they get, over time, will carry them farther.

Yes, there will be more Q5 characters than there might otherwise have been under my model. Or maybe we can stop making every single person sink their bonus points into Quantum just to get at the powers they want to use in their concept, and make it easier for people to play at the Quantum rating that fits their design best instead of making it strictly a power decision.

In other words, I think that offering people the first three dots of Quantum as a sliding scale they can pick from without spending points gives us vastly more flexibility, as people telling stories about Novas, without costing us a great deal. In fact, other than an appeal to "but we want to get away from powerful characters" (as though you can't build a powerful character at most any quantum level), I haven't heard a good or coherent argument against my suggestion yet.

If someone's willing to provide one, though, I'd like to hear it.

[Hugin]

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

I would just like to say that i didnt insult anyones sexuality in here. I have no reason to do so.

Calling Nova a castrator and implying lisping to the "writers not gamers" comment seems homophobic and misogynistic even to someone as thick as I am.

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

Likewise none of my statements should be construed as personal. I dont know any of you in RL so I only have the forums to go by.

Well, it was pretty obvious that your statements WERE being taken personally. Maybe that should have been a tip-off.

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

I was a little uppity at first because I felt that myself and other were disregarded. I felt (and still feel) like Nova is holier than thou and despite claiming she does this for us her initial post essentially ignored a good portion of the votes/poll whatever.

Okay, "holier-than-thou" is an ad hominem attack, period. Doesn't matter how you intend it, it is an attack. It makes what follows seem less a reasonable comment and more a whiney complaint.

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

It was only after I was subjected to ridicule and shame in an attempt to shut me up that I got real nasty. Trying to silence someone who's views arent in alignment with your own to me smacks of yes, the kind of treatment the media gets in fascist countries. The idea of freezing canon and setting all these limits to sort of "sanitize" the world and basically critiscizing us who want our stories to be games as well felt haughty and elitist.

If you want to play a game then play a game. There are a few here. The forums have NEVER been games. NEVER. Dude, I've been here for something like seven years. It has never been a game. It's basically cooperative fan-fiction.

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

Honestly I am REAL surprised Nova let it get to her so badly...if you get so bent out of shape from someone being mad at you online ...well thats just silly.

Another attack. Curious, is this how you normally make your arguments?

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Nova OOC

That doesn't read like an apology to me.

I am not going to apologize per se given your haughty attitude. I will say that in general i regret allowing myself to get so nasty. I didnt need to though I was actually offended by you.

I am guessing that people say this homophobic thing was me :talking is a lisp: which I saw as merely a mocking tone of voice. I didnt actully find out until today from someone else that Nova is actually agy in RL.

For the record i have no problem whatsoever with gay people. I have many gay friends. I live in San Francisco for Chrissakes. I DO have problems with people who would shame others into silence for speaking out their own views.

[Drew]

Personal attacks are often taken personally. Damned if I know why...

Though for what it's worth, I don't think Overload is homophobic.

[SkyLion]

I said holier than thou cuz thats how i feel about her. Its not an attack as such. Its an expression of my feelings on the matter. And the castration specialist comment was in response to someone claiming she neutered a faction.

I realize the boards arent a game in the way I am used to. I was hoping to give something new a try. However it is still in the basis of an online RPG and if I am playing a role that sounds like a game to me, given that RPGs are about playing roles. Again, the distinction between story and game for RPGing is an extraneous one for me...

[SkyLion]

Im not homophobic.

[Jordan]

Bullshit. You used a homophobic insult as an attack and assumed it was okay and no one would be offended.

You insulted me. Personally. As far as I am concerned your opinions aren't worth spitting on.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

I didnt actully find out until today from someone else that Nova is actually agy in RL.

It shouldn't matter. Wrong is wrong, even if nobody at all is around to hear it.

[SkyLion]

Quote:

Bullshit. You used a homophobic insult as an attack and assumed it was okay and no one would be offended.

You insulted me. Personally. As far as I am concerned your opinions aren't worth spitting on.

You can think it was whatever you want.

The fact of the matter is I am not homophobic and didnt intend to insult anyones sexuality.

As for your insulting me just now: Fuck You.

[Wargear]

*sets Overload and the whole matter of his homophobia or lack thereof off to the side and gets back to work*

This is an amendment that Velvet and I are proposing to the Nova Point section.

"Characters recieve a score of up to Quantum 3 for free; a score of 4 or 5 must be purchased with bonus or nova points. For those players who choose to create a character with a Quantum score lower than Quantum 3, a small boost of bonus points (not nova points) that may be spent on skills or Backgrounds will be provided. This will amount to 5 bonus points for a character who begins play with Quantum 2, and 10 bonus points for a character who begins play with Quantum 1."

[Justin OOC]

I support it

[Hugin]

Sounds interesting.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: *Overload*

Quote:

Bullshit. You used a homophobic insult as an attack and assumed it was okay and no one would be offended.

You insulted me. Personally. As far as I am concerned your opinions aren't worth spitting on.

You can think it was whatever you want.

The fact of the matter is I am not homophobic and didnt intend to insult anyones sexuality.

As for your insulting me just now: Fuck You.

We're adults here and this is seriously getting on my nerves. Grow the hell up people. I don't care if you're gay, straight, undecided, emo, or bi. Leave your problems with people elsewhere.

I've slipped up and insulted people here before, ALOT. Ask anyone, and I still do it. And I'd like to think that somehow between it all I've managed to become one of the more respected opinions around here when it comes to some issues. I'm proud of that because it's a testament to how we as people can say some messed up shit and regret it later. Don't get me wrong, everything you've said you are accountable for (I'm no exception), but forgiveness is a great thing and half the shit, let's face it, isn't worth the calories we burn typing it out. What everyone needs to do is step back, understand that we as humans are flawed and imperfect.

Cut the formal apology crap, cut the name calling, quit with the 'my daddy can beat up you daddy' manner of posting. It's getting old quick. Look at yourselves, you're like children bickering and griping back and forth looking for anything you possibly can in every post to use as a weapon in your next tirade of hate and slander.

Is this really all we have to show from this community?

Sad. It really is.

Let it go.

[Centimane]

I'll second both Wargear's idea and Revenant's last post.

[Xeno]

I am pleased with this idea. Well pleased.

I suggest that instead of describing the rule as 'you start with 3 quantum, but may trade in 2 for bonus points', word it as "Ya'll get yerselves an extra 10 bonus points, ta use as yew see fit! Yeee haw!"

The two statements are equivalent (right?) but I think the latter is more straightforward.

And... we can dispense with the annoying cowboy-accent in the actual document. That would be unprofessional.

[Wargear]

Actually, no, the two statements aren't equivalent. We aren't suggesting giving bonus points to everyone, to use as they please. We're suggesting giving bonus points to people who start the actual game with a Quantum score below 3 (not just get past the bonus point stage of character creation that way), and giving them those points to be spent only on skills and Backgrounds.

Not, as you can see, quite the same thing.

[Xeno]

Is there any particular disadvantage to just putting in the extra BP(possibly specifying some usage restrictions) and letting the proverbial chips fall where they may?

That might also help some of the folks who who are worried about how/if-they-can take Merits, in the absence of flaw-based-points.

I don't mind too much either way, but 'Look! Bonus points!' has a certain elegance... a simplicity... I find appealing.

[Renata Hodges]

Well...

There's one thing.

Quantum costs 7 BP to buy normally.

But this plan only rewards you with 5 for forgoing default Quantum.

So it really isn't the same.

That said, specific values can be discussed.

Honestly, I have no problem with starting with Quantum 1. Really. We're starting with 50 nova points (maybe 60...haven't been keeping score). That's a LOT. Why not just make people buy their quantum, like back in the day?

Oof. Wrong account!

[SalmonMax]

I'm Lily, and I approved the above post.

[Wargear]

Lily,

I've been over the argument a few times, but the essence of it is that by starting the default Quantum higher we encourage people to use the full range of powers rather than penalizing people who want to use powers that have high quantum minimums but may not be more effective than powers with low Quantum minimums. Basically, the 5 bonus points per dot of free quantum you don't use is designed as a compensation to people whose character concepts require not taking advantage of the free benefit, not to reflect the standard cost of Quantum in bonus points.