Aberrant: 200X - 200X reboot discussion: TAINT MECHANICS

[Nova OOC]

This thread is for the discussion of the mechanics of Taint in the proposed 200X reboot of the N! Prime 2018 setting.

We all know what taint is, according to the rules. We all should know that taint is supposed to make it very hard indeed for a tainted character to interact with the world at large. Most of us suspect that it's not worked out that well in 2018.

What will we do differently this time around? Remember, breaking versimilitude is something that dicks do, and that's against Rule #1.*

So, bearing in mind that characters with significant taint will be expected to pay the appropriate social penalty, what mechanic for "buying" taint do we want to use? Personally, I'm leery as hell of creating any new mechanic for taint. We're not game designers, and I'd hate for us to get it all wrong. The Law of Unintended Consequences is a hard law, and the lessons it teaches are often very painful ones. I'd like to simply limit new characters to no more than a modest number of taint points, say, five or six, and follow the established new rules for increasing taint through carelessness or tainted purchases.

I suspect there will be as many opinions as there are writers. What are your thoughts?

(* Don't be a dick. Dicks get kicked.)

[The White Rat]

I don't think a cap is necessary on the level of taint. If someone thinks that they can RP a character with 8 taint, then more power to them. However, and I think what Nova OOC is saying, is that to start with, limit taint to six. As time progresses, it can go higher. I see no objection to such a rule, except that it might be as long as a year before the next level of taint can be garnered. A player who playes their 7 taited character like he was a non-tainted character, should face sanction by their peers.

As to the question of purchasing taint at character creation. I am fine with either method. Both are mentioned in the books, although one is 'optional'. I personally have not played with the taint=quantum method, but would be willing to try it out.

[Courier]

Quote:

A player who playes their 7 taited character like he was a non-tainted character, should face sanction by their peers.

That's the problem right there.

Quote:

I'd like to simply limit new characters to no more than a modest number of taint points, say, five or six, and follow the established new rules for increasing taint through carelessness or tainted purchases.

One of the big theme characters in Abby is someone cursed with a perm power (taint 8) and/or monsterous body, who gets around it with Dorm 5. Superbeast is the most stand out example but there are others.

The important thing is that people react to the monsterous form like it's a monster.

[Jordan]

Quote:

One of the big theme characters in Abby is someone cursed with a perm power (taint 8) and/or monsterous body, who gets around it with Dorm 5. Superbeast is the most stand out example but there are others.

The important thing is that people react to the monsterous form like it's a monster.

More to the point really is the player who insists that the penalty for his mosnterous form is negated by his mega-socials. If I recall correctly this has happened here before.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Jordan Rossi

More to the point really is the player who insists that the penalty for his mosnterous form is negated by his mega-socials. If I recall correctly this has happened here before.

In theory this works somewhat, although "negated" probably isn't the right word, "countered" maybe.

But this isn't point effective. I can buy Taint 8, get a "free" perm power, and also buy Mega-Social 3 (x3) to counter it, but that costs me 27 nova points.

Hopefully someone doing that is building a theme, because they certainly aren't saving points. Where this mechanic is abuseable is in combo with "unlimited points".

[Jordan]

Sorry but I'm not really buying it Courier.

If someone makes a taint buttered phsyical monstosity (say a furry dog headed dude), I don't care how many dots of Mega Appearance he's got I'm still not gonna say "I'd tap that." well...not unless I'm playing a character into beastiality.

[SalmonMax]

Tend to agree.

Mega appearance might make the body hot, but that doesn't necessarily make it attractive. Other factors apply.

One of the most onerous things about Aberrant (and White Wolf as a whole, really) are when certain abilities...and certain philosophies about those abilities...threaten to dictate even PC responses. Note, I accuse -no one- here of this, but I have had unpleasant experiences with it elsewhere. I don't mind things like Domination, which is clearly external influence...but things like mega-stats that supposedly force a character to change -from the inside- are just...annoying.

And of course, to someone who is based on say, Mega-Manipulation (as one of my PC's is), it may also be annoying when people resent how that ability is supposed to work and either accuse you of being unfair or just outright ignore it...making you question why the ability even costs points.

It's a delicate situation, I realize.

Has there been any official clarification on the subject?

Oh. Anyway, back on subject.

I can see how Mega-Charisma could overcome baseline fear of high taint (though I would think the mega-charisma would always be more effective if it didn't have to do so). Mega-Manipulation might persuade someone to help you even though they're repulsed. Mega-Appearance wouldn't change the fact that you're a dog man...you're just a hot dog man. How someone reacts to that depends entirely on their tastes.

Just like I wouldn't expect individuals with mega appearance to attract members of the same sex...unless they're into that. And so on.

[Fortune's Son]

Originally Posted By: Jordan Rossi

...I'm still not gonna say "I'd tap that." well...not unless I'm playing a character into beastiality.

Or, and I suggest this only to illustrate a point, someone might tap it for the same reasons beer goggles make a balding middle aged Asian English professor look hot.

Depending on how far removed the experience was from the person's norm, they might contemplate gnawing off their own arm in order to make their escape in the morning. Or, looking at the bestial animal-like creature lying next to them, they might decide on suicide.

Mega-social novas always forget things happen once the mega-socials are removed.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Jordan Rossi

If someone makes a taint buttered phsyical monstosity (say a furry dog headed dude), I don't care how many dots of Mega Appearance he's got I'm still not gonna say "I'd tap that." well...not unless I'm playing a character into beastiality.

This is a mix of different issues.

Issue #1: Confusing Taint problems with Aberration problems.

With Mega-App 3, this character is capable of interacting with normal humans without a taint penality. That does NOT eliminate his aberration issues.

You probably *can't* pick up people in a bar, but they won't throw you out. A person with fur is still a person, but they also still have fur. On the other hand a long term relationship with one person sounds pretty doable.

And note the taint penality is still pretty harsh here, a normal mega-app dude could walk into a bar and get anyone in there to sleep with him. Here in spite of his massive social skills at best he's hoping for "normal".


Issue #2: The description of the character should match the underlying dots the character has. Not every character concept should take the "sexy" merit or Mega-App. Not everyone with Mega-App should be thought of as Mega-Attractive rather than Mega-Impressive.

[Mr Fox]

Mega-charisma = Phantom of the Opera. He wears a mask for a reason, but...

[Andrew Murphy]

Let's not forget about the mega-ugly factor. Who says those mega-appearce dice have to make you a "hot-monster"? Granted a mega-ugly isn't going to be bedding anybody but then they would presumably know this going in.

I think what we need to make clear is that we need to expect all players to be adults and play their characters maturely and appropriately. If I played Sloppy-Joe and bought a dot of mega-appearance I ought to be responsible enough to play it as mega-ugly ...

[Warren Verona]

Oh gawd, please don't go off on another 'Mega-Socials' are broken debate. They give bonus dice, that's it. You can still fail with Mega-Socials and you may also notice that Taint directly affects the use of a few of them.

If you want to play a Taint 8 beast then bully for you. If no one wants to talk to you then you know why. Please though, FFS play a Taint 8 beast like it should be done. If you look like Godzilla, or a flesh eating tiger, or a 12 ton griffon chances are you are NOT Mega-Beautiful, you are Mega-Scary. People look at you and shit their pants.

Be sensible.

[Mr Fox]

Taint 8 could be interesting. I once thought of playing a Matter Chameleon with Permanent. In order for him to switch back into flesh and blood he would actually have to touch someone and use the Chameleon power to be human again. The trick for a character like that is you would have to RP it and do it darned well. Plus, he would have only been able to maintain any one form for short time before switching unconsciously to something else he touched. Could be interesting character and might have been fun to explore that idea for a while, but it would have made interactions with others problematic. Who is going to want to have casual conversation with the human torch. Or worse make love to linen because he forgot to concentrate in the middle of being intimate.

I don't mind someone wanting to explore that kind of thing, but you will have to be very good at RPing it out or it won't be very welcomed by others.

There is a thing they do in the Baalt game that might serve us well. As part of the signature at the bottom of every post include the details everyone needs to know when interacting with you. Appearance, Chrisma, Style, Aberrations, etc.

That might be useful for this environment.

[Nova OOC]

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

There is a thing they do in the Baalt game that might serve us well. As part of the signature at the bottom of every post include the details everyone needs to know when interacting with you. Appearance, Chrisma, Style, Aberrations, etc.
That might be useful for this environment.

Bloody brilliant. Again. You're a font of good ideas.

[Warren Verona]

We only get 250 characters for our sig. Hope you can sum it up really good.

[Mr Fox]

App:x Cha:x Style:x Ab: Glowing eyes, Silver skin, etc...

The above is only 96 characters including the characters required to boldface the type.

You won't be able to be long winded with your aberrations or explain them in detail, but you should be able to give a general idea. If you need to add more info than that you could always just paste it in to all your posts if it is too important to leave out and doesn't fit in 250 characters.

[Velvet]

I like the idea of the signature "mini sheet" for 'net games, but unless it was required, I'd honestly just copy/paste a block of formatted info into posts in which I was interacting with someone else. I'd leave the forum-style signature as-is, because it seems more in character for a nova (or baseline) when posting on the OpNet.

[Warren Verona]

I usually fill in those blanks with a quote box in the fiction, or on the first post.

If you have to refer to this information often enough that you need it on another characters sig line... something's wrong with you.

[Hugin]

Or like me you have a fucked up memory.

[Warren Verona]

Two browser windows. One for the project, the other for the character whose information you have to reference.

[Velvet]

...Or it can be contained in quote boxes and/or sig lines for ease of reference? Really, as long as everyone knows what's going on, and the information's readily available, I think we'll all be able to work it out amongst ourselves.

I hope so, in any case.

[Matt]

Sig length can be modified.

[Charlotte]

One thing that I'm not sure has come up, is whether or not taint affects other novas. The main book rules that no, it doesn't; the APG makes mention that taint affects other novas when confronted with a nova more tainted than they are (taint 0 guy freaks out around taint 4 guy, who in turn is unbothered by taint 3 guy.)

If it doesn't affect other novas it seems to limit its application, since most of the other players will be playing novas. However, subscribing to a rule in the APG means one more book for potential players to buy. And both rules have their respective arguments, though I lean towards taint affecting less tainted novas.

One other consideration is whether or not an unusual body type should be considered a part of, or separate from, taint. Stuff like Mithril's or Vixen's bodies, for example. I'm of the opinion that there should be room for unusual body types that fall outside the advance of taint, but I accept I might be a minority there. There was a rule about taking aberrations as flaws, in the form of 'quantum quirks,' but it's a very obscure rule.

I'd propose, for those who want an unusual body type but don't want to taint up for it - and in turn, pick up even more aberrations later on - that we have a 0-NP Body Modification called Special Effect. The rules of this body mod are simple - it provides no game-world positives, no game-world negatives, and is there purely for visual aesthetics alone. It goes away when the nova dorms assuming the nova can do so, and people can have their characters react to it how they want to. So if Mithril takes this, then even under the aforementioned APG taint rules she won't suffer social penalties, which fits how she's been portrayed; if Vixen takes this, it takes her character from "highly unbelievable pile of plot vomit" to "mostly unbelievable pile of plot vomit."

[Drew]

That works for me. A high-Taint Unicorn doesn't really gell, anyway, unless I wanted to do something weird like make him, instead of a symbol of purity, a symbol of perversion and sickness, completely with Taint Bleed.

(I am talking about my in-the-works 200x character)

[Xeno]

I like this idea for reasons you need only glance at my avatar to apprehend.

[Hugin]

Taint should not be so easily dismissed or ignored. It's freaky. It shouldn't just be golden skin, a gentle glow or blue hair. It should seperate one from humanity.

[SalmonMax]

Agreed

And I like the proposals that separate "looking different" from "aberration."

In the sense that you can look different, even dramatically different, from human, without necessarily being tainted. I think that's a stupdendously good idea.

So you could have BeastLad, who looks like a dogman, but isn't tainted. People might think he's a freak, or think he's cute...or whatever...but he's not TAINTED. He doesn't inspire instinctive dread. His attitude is still basically human, modified by any applicable personality features and abilities.

Then there's the Werewolf, who ALSO looks like a dogman, but he's aberrated to look that way. He's thickly unnatural; animals and people alike shy away from him and panic at his approach. He is fundamentally something -other- than human, be it good or bad...if those concepts still apply at all.

The first is basically just fun flavor for some related abilities. The second is actually governed by mechanics.

[Courier]

Sounds like a job for "quantum flaws". Basically they're aberrations without taint, so be careful not to over do it.

And one can make the reasonalbe arguement you need them for character flavor if they're zero'ed out. We won't even need to worry about whether an aberration counts as minor or major since they'll cost the same.

Q flaw: Blue Skin (Flaw: 0 points).

Something along these lines is basically neccessary for a number of character concepts. Dr Troll for example.

[Velvet]

I like the Special Effect proposal, for reasons stated previously by others.

[Seph OOC]

Agreed. Likewise, people here should have the sack to tell someone when their "aberration" is really just a harmless - possibly even beneficial - special effect. It's something the Mods should have a leash on, too, because the expedient options seem to be awfully popular. I've done it myself.

[Ashnod]

I personally don't have a problem with low-level aberrations such as anima banner, and the like, especially given the canon examples in the core book of the baseline world thinking little of them aside from normal nova-fan fascination.

I think the real problem comes when people should be getting medium and high level aberrations, and either don't RP the true effects of them or somehow continue using low level ones.

[Hugin]

Okay, good point.

Yes, the low-level ones CAN be glowy stuff or purple skin. Badly argued on my part.

[Seph OOC]

Originally Posted By: Hugin

Okay, good point.

Yes, the low-level ones CAN be glowy stuff or purple skin. Badly argued on my part.

Glowy stuff and purple skin, sure. They're unsettling and inhuman and can put off the baselines, which is what aberrations do. I'm a little leery of "aberrations" like aberrant eyes (red/white/black/goofy symbol) or grey/purple/red hair, shit like that. If the effect could be replicated with a trip to the Hot Topic, it's probably not an aberration.

[Velvet]

Very valid points. If we'd had an option (without aberrations) to have unusually colored eyes/skin/hair etc., I'd have done so with Vv to begin with. (I know you weren't singling me out specifically, but it does apply. )

Does anyone have a preference with respect to the new "Special Effect" submission or Quantum Flaws?

[Seph OOC]

I was singling out you, but I was singling out me, too. Regina is a good example of a "soft" aberration that I wussed out on, big time.

[Velvet]

Quote:

I was singling out you, but I was singling out me, too. Regina is a good example of a "soft" aberration that I wussed out on, big time.

It's easy to do, especially because we didn't really have a good way to measure the "freak" level of novas with respect to interactions, and it became rather old-hat to have people walking around with aberrations which were really just cosmetic quantum quirks. If this suggestion goes through, we'll have a definite means of separating "Quirky and multi-colored, but generally harmless" from "Holy shit, it's Cthulhu!"

Do we need a consensus on this, or is this variant of Body Mod good for the majority?

[Seph OOC]

You know, I kind of like that idea. Make aberrant hair/eyes and various other little quantum quirks like that an effectively free Body Modification. It's just character flavor, anyway.

[Velvet]

All credit to Mr. McGee on the Body Mod suggestion. Awesome idea.

[Wargear]

I'm behind it. I think it's an excellent distinction that's worth codifying.

[Centimane]

For what it's worth, I'll put in my vote for McGee's Body Mod idea. I think it's brilliant.