Skylion and RPG Post- Finding my friends

[SkyLion]

So it's no secret that I have made some enemies here. Certain posters have requested I stay far afield of them in any gaming environment.

So...I would like to play Aberrant here. This is pretty much the ONLY place in the vast wide internet to play Aberrant by post.

In order for me to actually have fun with you I have to determine who doesn't want to play with me and who does like and want to play with me. Drastic I know, but I am tired of fighting with people who don't get me and just want to come here and have fun. Please note that being on the do not play list implies no negativity about who you are as a person or as a player. All it means is that you have expressed that you do not like me and don't want to play with me period and I am acknowledging your sentiment. Mostly this list is about me finding the people who DO want to play with me, so I can concentrate on building a good circle of friends here for mutual fun times.

The do not play with list (have been highly derogatory and/or have explicitly said "stay away."):

Mala

Zellcrs

Long

Kamiko

NuclearMind

Note If you are on the do not play with list please inform me as to the names of all of your PCs so I can abide your preference.

Neutrals: (reserve judgment but have not expressly said "stay away."):

Carver

Friends (have expressed positive interest in playing/writing together):

Courier

Centimane

Einherjar

Varro

Envoy

White Rain

Krul

SalmonMax

Mr. Fox

These lists are not definitive or complete. If you want to be added to either list or I put you in the wrong list let me know and I'll edit. Furthermore, if anyone changes their mind about which list they want to be on at any point I will modify.

Again, this is simply in the interest of saving us all time and emotional energy by me barking up the wrong tree. I just want to play and have fun in the ways that I know how with characters I enjoy.

Thank you for reading. Comments are welcome, but please no criticism. If you have something mean to say, please just request that I stay away from you and I will add you to the list. If you would like to offer constructive criticism from a friendly place, please PM me privately.

[Sailor OOC]

You know... it's one thing to have a disagreement with certain players, but it's another to drag this out into a public forum. You've been highly confrontational whenever someone shows any sort of criticism. I was trying to work with you but you showed no sign of being willing to bend or to adapt a concept to what is accepted operating paradigm in CoQF, or anywhere from what I've seen.

I'm considering this a personal attack and will report this as such.

[SkyLion]

Not a single thing you have said is accurate. This conversation has always been in the public to forum. All of it is based on history already posted here and can be searched. You accuse me of being confrontational, yet it was all of you who confronted me, demanding of me to justify my character to you. You say you were trying to work with me but I don't recall ever asking for your help. You and Mala jumped into a debate I was having with Carver and proceeded to take her side. You all jumped on me and you are the ones who got vicious calling me troll and worse, baiting me with personal insults to my character, including calling me a horrible person and in need of mental help. You guys were being trolls to me while accusing me of being one. Meanwhile the worst I said was finally that I didn't care what your opinions were of me. I never called names or insulted anyone. It is truly bizarre.

Read my post above. I am not looking for conflict. That is the point. To avoid the people who dislike me and find the ones I can have fun with.

[The Story Guide]

Just for transparency's sake:

[Lobby]: SkyLion has entered at 9:10 pm

[Carver]: Hey, Kael.

[Carver]: Hey, NM

[Carver]: Hey, Sky.

[Carver]: Hey, Abuyss.

[Carver]: Abyss*

[skyLion]: hey Dawn

[skyLion]: whats up

[skyLion]: are you with people today or on your own?

[NuclearMind]: Hey!

[Kamiko]: hay carv

[Kamiko]: although now... it's break time. toodles!

[Lobby]: Kamiko has left at 9:12 pm

[NuclearMind]: bye

[skyLion]: So I was thinking about yesterday

[Carver]: Sky: I was with them earlier.

[NuclearMind]: Hope everything was great.

[skyLion]: Im doing TG this weekend

[skyLion]: today just hanging out

[skyLion]: going out for Korean bbq

[skyLion]: Im not so beholden to "special days" as much anymore

[Lobby]: Zellcrs has left at 9:24 pm

[Lobby]: Zellcrs has entered at 9:24 pm

[NuclearMind]: wb

[skyLion]: So I was thinking about yesterday

[skyLion]: people get so upset by me, and the odd part is, when I dont even think Im doing anything offensive

[skyLion]: on one hand I realize that I cant take it personally because people have their own filters and reactions

[skyLion]: but it also made me wonder if it is really worth it

[skyLion]: this is pretty much the only place in all of the vast internet to play aberrant

[skyLion]: and...it is a VERY high quality playing environment

[skyLion]: it is a jewel really

[skyLion]: to have all of you here

[skyLion]: but I feel with many of you its an uphill battle

[skyLion]: I am not seen in a positive light, my past mistakes a looming spectre

[skyLion]: but even if that were not the case and I were to somehow receive a tabula rasa

[Carver]: And I thought the Japanese could get crazy on their TV shows: http://blogs.timesof...-the-real-viral

[Carver]: That link is worth watching just for the hostess's reaction.

[skyLion]: there exist between myself and a few of the major players here, some steep differences of opinion on what the game is and should be

[skyLion]: for example Jeremy thinking that CTT is not in theme for Aberrant...clearly he wants to stick to a more "one reality" version of the setting

[Carver]: Sky: I can agree that you seem to enjoy a vastly different kind of game than the rest of us.

[skyLion]: or the dispute between Carver and I about player defined powers.

[Carver]: And to be fair, Jer's fine with CCT; he just thinks that something that can exist between the CTT worlds is non-canon.

[skyLion]: its in the print black and wht e that flavor -fully- follows function and that you can take a mencahinc and call it whatever you want...right there black and white clear as crystal

[skyLion]: but that doesnt matter because everyone here has there own idea about what is or is not possible

[skyLion]: I have a more liberal view

[skyLion]: so you guys get frustrated with my ideas and I get chafed for trying to fit into a straightjacket

[skyLion]: finding a common ground might be worth it but the specter of the past seems to haunt me here

[skyLion]: I cant help but always feel like the odd man out

[skyLion]: Carver: I never said "between" I said "pocket dimension"

[skyLion]: which is theoretically possible...by allowing CTT you basically make any possible reality possible...though obviously some are more remote than others

[skyLion]: but that is not the point

[skyLion]: the question is: can we coexist? or rather can we play together...given our differences of interpretation.

[Carver]: Sky: Here's the thing: A difference of interpretation means nothing in a game because the ST is the final artitrator of what is the interpretation.

[Carver]: I can hate a PC, a lot, and it won't matter if the ST allows it into the game.

[Carver]: My choices are: live with it or leave the game.

[Carver]: So can we play together? That depends on each player and whether they're willing to leave the game instead of play with your PC.

[skyLion]: For example: I am going to take a power that, as per Kruls (and the rulebooks) rules will be "themed" "fluffed" or "defined" if you will as "Force Field Manipulation." This will be represented mechanically by using the suite power rules a la EA,EM, Gravity Manip, SPatial Manip etc. Canon rules and Krul's explicit game rule threads state this is allowed, encouraged and (accodring to Krul) required. However you flat out said if this happened you would quit. Which is a way of forcing me out by telling the ST "him or me" and making him choose between an established player and a new player

[Carver]: No, because I'm not telling Krul that.

[Carver]: If he puts you in, I'll just bow out.

[skyLion]: As for what you just stated, that is not entirely true...if you dont like a PC you can your PC also not like the PC, therefore shunning interaction and in effect leaving me with no one to play with

[Carver]: Or rather, if he put the power I find abhorant in, I'll just bow out.

[skyLion]: Dont you see how messed up that is though?

[skyLion]: People here talk...Im sure everyone will know and then Ill be blamed or maybe my character wont see the light of play

[Carver]: No, I'll make it clear that Krul made a call (and not the first call) that I can't agree with.

[Carver]: That is actually making the game less fun for me. Fun's the point.

[Carver]: If it's not fun, there's no point.

[skyLion]: you just dont like the idea of mechanics being secondary to flavor descriptions.

[Carver]: Stop fucking telling me what I like and don'tlike.

[Carver]: You are fucking putting words in my mouth.

[Carver]: Stop fucking doing that.

[skyLion]: so then let me ask you...yesterday you were imploring me to make and play whatever would make me happy...basically saying to not concern myself with what anyone else was playing. So then...why cant you do the same? Why does my PC choices or powers affect you in the slightest?

[kael]: Hey Skylion, Hey Carver

[skyLion]: Um...

[skyLion]: [Carver] 7:40 pm: Or rather, if he put the power I find abhorant in, I'll just bow out.

[Carver]: I made no mention of flavor descriptions.

[Carver]: You are making assumptions.

[skyLion]: the "power I find abhorrent" was me using the suite power rules to be defined as force field manipulation

[Carver]: Sky: And this is because we share a game world. And I was asking you to make something that would fit the world. YOU were still trying to craft it into something you'd enjoy. I want you to enjoy it, in so far as if you're not enjoying it, then you're wasting your time.

[skyLion]: HI Kael

[kael]: Do you guys like Jazz?

[Carver]: Me? Depends on the song, generally.

[kael]: Fair 'nuf.

[kael]: There's some I really like, and some I can't stand.

[skyLion]: I dont dislike jazz but I am hradly an afficianado

[kael]: (I'm actually more of a Blues man myself).

[skyLion]: I like the Funk

[kael]: I could name maybe half a dozen Jazz artists (even though I just listened to an interview with one).

[skyLion]: funk and soul

[skyLion]: hip hop...but not RnB

[kael]: Funk's good too. Very much like jazz.

[kael]: They all have a lot of improvisation.

[kael]: And what I love, is that I can tell, just walking into a bar, if a group is playing, whether I'll like them or not.

[Zellcrs]: funk is pretty fun

[skyLion]: Carver: so thats it then? not enough room for noth of us?

[kael]: It's really easy. If there is a give and take between them, it sounds awesome (even if it's not a style I normally like).

[skyLion]: If I play, you quit?

[NuclearMind]: I :heart: mind-altering substances. :hypno:

[kael]: On the other hand, if they're too intent on their own line of play, and don't listen to each other...

[NuclearMind]: Music is an excellent one.

[skyLion]: I suppose we can open a PM box, so as not to interrupt the flow of more pleasent conversation here

[kael]: They tend to sound like crap.

[Carver]: Sky: This isn't about you. If Krul makes a ruling that I don't agree with, then I'm out. He's the final arbritrator.

[skyLion]: thats too bad

[skyLion]: it does burden me though...if I played a different character he wouldnt have to make that ruling and then you would stay

[Carver]: Sky: This isn't about you.

[NuclearMind]: When I'm on the right kind of mind-altering substances, I feel like I can make my nipples lactate for distance. Does anyone else like that feeling?

[skyLion]: were you already thinking about dropping out?

[Carver]: Because I'm sure you'll find another way to bend the rules and piss me off.

[NuclearMind]: Or am I horribly, horribly alone again on this one?

[Carver]: NM: I really can't say that I have.

[Carver]: brb - tea

[kael]: @NM: For distance? Uhm, yeah, you lost me.

[NuclearMind]: Tea is yet another wonderful mind-altering substance, done in the right amount.

[skyLion]: um...NM. being a man I've never lactated before but I do myself enjoy particular entheogens yes

[NuclearMind]: I don't believe in putting boundaries on myself.

[skyLion]: Carver: well ok. I'll take our word for it. I've never bent the rules before though. Occasionally an ST has hopuse ruled stuff or given me things that arent in the rules (Like how Titan Omega could here whenever anyone in genine danger cried out for his help)

[NuclearMind]: Birds are a wonderful mind-altering substance, properly prepared.

[NuclearMind]: And has anyone ever properly contemplated the busts of ancient Roman generals?

[Carver]: Define "properly contemplated"?

[NuclearMind]: Who can define such things, really?

[Asarasa]: I prefer contemplating different sort of busts, myself

[NuclearMind]: That's why I watch anime! :biggrin: It's the physics -defying that's so much fun!

[Zellcrs]: hiya asa

[NuclearMind]: Just watched Season 1 of High School of the Dead. Perfect fodder for a light-hearted zombie apocalypse.

[Zellcrs]: nice

[NuclearMind]: Hey, I'm sleepy and headachey. (That's a word, right?) I should probably go to sleep at some point.

[Carver]: NM: Aww..

[skyLion]: have someone give you a neck and head massage

[NuclearMind]: Heye, did you see my response in DR?

[Carver]: I did.

[Carver]: I'll be replying after the holidays are officially over (which for me is after I leave my sister's house tomorrow).

[NuclearMind]: Cool!

[Lobby]: NuclearMind has left at 10:19 pm

[Zellcrs]: yaay

[Malachite]: Sky - How exactly is a force field an element?

[Malachite]: You can -make- a force field by manipulating elements, but its a -formation- of another element, not an element itself.

[skyLion]: mala...it is not an "element." the key to understand here is that it does not have to be an element

[skyLion]: page 192: "...or whatever the player can think of and the ST will allow..." and page

195: "...element or phenomenon..."

[skyLion]: a force field is a phenomenon

[Malachite]: I don't think by "phenomenon" they meant "another power already listed separately in the game".

[Lobby]: Kamiko has entered at 10:26 pm

[skyLion]: any power can be defined as anything

[Malachite]: ....yeah....*hands him his cheese stick*

[skyLion]: armor can be defined as a force field, a force field can be defined as summoning armor

[skyLion]: in aberrant, much like champions the mechanics are seperate from the fluff

[Carver]: No... Armor is a permanent power with a set benefit. FF is temporary and the soak is gained on a roll..

[Carver]: The fluff of it is outside the mechanics.

[skyLion]: mechanics are seperate from fluff

[skyLion]: could take armor [power and define it as a permanent force field

[skyLion]: or I could take force field and descriibe it as summoning temporary suit of armor

[Carver]: But the words and fluff used to describe it don't mean the powers are interchangable.

[Carver]: Nor are they the same.

[Carver]: Nor should someone take Elemental Mastery: Armor.

[skyLion]: a quantum bolt can be created energy beams...or created matter projectiles

[skyLion]: well I would not take that personally but some STs might allow it

[skyLion]: it would be esoteric for sure

[Malachite]: What exactly are you wanting to do with Elemental Anima or Mastery with the element as force fields?

[skyLion]: Ive seen EM Paper before and it was awesome

[skyLion]: also EM blood was cool

[Malachite]: Yes....but "Paper" is not another power in the game.

[Malachite]: Nor is blood.

[skyLion]: exactly...it is a fluff decription

[skyLion]: ll powers are just sets of mechanics...the player defines what the manifest as

[Kamiko]: I'm almost there for EM Paper... then shit gets cool... but EM: Force Field... no.

[skyLion]: I could for example make a fire wielding character by taking seperatly q bolt, gflight, immolate and immobilize...or I could take a suite power to represnt the same thing

[Kamiko]: A force field isn't a phenomenon. It's an effect caused by the manipulation of a element or fundamental force.

[skyLion]: fundamental force is a phenomena

[Zellcrs]: Look, everything that could conceivably be done with an absurd notion as elemental mastery force field, can be done better, with enhancement, such an absurd notion as EM forcefields is retarded.

[Carver]: KAmi! You hit it on the nose! Perhaps your shouldn't have EM: FF, SKy, but EM: whatever your actual manifested phenomenon is.

[Carver]: What are his FFs?

[Carver]: What is their defining "thing"

[Kamiko]: SkyLion - no, a fundamental force is something like electromagnetism, strong or weak nuclear force or gravity.

[Carver]: Force is mass x acceleration, remember?

[skyLion]: except that I am stepping outside the bounds of phsyics...which novas are free to do

[Kamiko]: Those aren't phenomena, those are fundamental forces of reality itself.

[skyLion]: novas use the fundamental forces to do...anything

[Kamiko]: Sky - Novas are bound BY physics to break them.

[Kamiko]: I can't make something appear out of nowhere. Energy has to be manipulated in order to create the effects.

[skyLion]: and since they operate on a quantum scale they can make magic

[skyLion]: for example...sizemorph creates mass out of nothing

[skyLion]: as does dentiy increase

[Carver]: That's not true, Sky.

[Carver]: It creates mass out of Quantum.

[skyLion]: and what about density decrease 5?

[Kamiko]: Unlike magic, Sky, quantum forces cannot create something from nothing. For instance, have you read what Quantum Construct does to the environment around the summoner when it's used too much?

[skyLion]: and what is quantum?

[Carver]: Energy that can be converted into other things or to cause effects

[Kamiko]: The purest form of energy in the universe, which is the thing quantum strings are made of which become things like matter.

[Kamiko]: or lower forms of energy

[skyLion]: at DD 5 yuo are immune to energy but mental powers still get through...only what are mental powers? they arent really psi under aberrant cosmology?

[Abyss Phantasia]: night

[Lobby]: Abyss Phantasia has left at 10:40 pm

[Mech]: back

[Mech]: I have fought the hordes, and won

[Kamiko]: Sky: A aberrant's paradigm seperates things in their personal "reality".

[Zellcrs]: yay grats long

[Carver]: Sky: because novas still use them, they're quantum energy affecting people's minds.

[Kamiko]: Think of each nova's quantum aura as a personal set of house rules to reality. Unless the nova trained themselves to strengthen their wills or had a paradigm that created said mental defenses, they would have a glass jaw towards mental abilities.

[skyLion]: my conception of Rico is that he uses repulsor energ the way it is defined by Iron Man...as "one way push"...basically force without mass ...it breaks normal physics because their is no push back, no reaction

[Kamiko]: An aberrant with mental powers is simply hitting the brain directly with quantum.

[Zellcrs]: Troll.

[Kamiko]: Sky - That would be like a quantum bolt.

[skyLion]: its not hardened air molecules...its not psionic TK..its pure force

[Malachite]: Sky - The point is, Elemental should be an -element-. Force fields are the manipulation of an element. Take that element and use the suite powers to make your force field effects.

[Kamiko]: quantum bolts have no mass thus get around one of neuton's laws of motion.

[Malachite]: Or just take fricking force field.

[skyLion]: as I have said..its pure force..quantuim force is you want to go with Kamiko

[Kamiko]: unless you want it to have mass, then you take an extra that causes knockback to you equal to the force of the quantum bolt's damage.

[skyLion]: i did take force field

[skyLion]: the suite power is for all the tricks he does with it

[Malachite]: *facepalms*

[Kamiko]: Well, Sky, what sort of energy is your force field?

[skyLion]: that would be a flaw not an extra kamiko

[Carver]: Sky: I'm going to ask simply: what is his FF *made* from?

[Kamiko]: sorry, flaw

[skyLion]: its not made of anything...its one way push

[Malachite]: So...nothing?

[Kamiko]: but what causes the push?

[Carver]: So... it's made of... nothing?

[Malachite]: Your elemental mastery is "nothing"?

[skyLion]: his will and quantum forces

[Carver]: You have EM: Nothing? LOL!

[Zellcrs]: you just want to play sue storm right? the powers are under TK and Forcefield and invisibility, there..good done print.

[Carver]: So in reality, you want EM: Quantum.

[skyLion]: Zell..um, no

[skyLion]: Carver: no

[Kamiko]: technically all novas are EM: Quantum...

[skyLion]: actually I am not using the name Em at all...as per Krul I am calling it Force Field Manipulation...his manipulation of his own force field

[Kamiko]: Sorry Sky... but I'm not buying it.

[skyLion]: Kamiko...Im not selling you anything

[skyLion]: you guys are cauht up in real world physics

[skyLion]: I am going with comic book physics

[skyLion]: if you can tell me what iron mans repulsors are made of I might go with that

[Kamiko]: Aberrant doesn't use comic book physics though.

[Kamiko]: The closest I can think of for Iron Man's energy is zero point energy.

[Lobby]: Long6 has entered at 10:49 pm

[Carver]: Sky: The repulsors originated as a hand attachment, but have since become the armor's most important standard armament. They have been referred to as being magnetic,[1] a blast of charged particles,[2] and as a force beam.

[Lobby]: Mech has left at 10:49 pm

[Carver]: HEy, Long.

[Kamiko]: So by that Iron Man uses Electromagnetic Force. to influence particles.

[skyLion]: sounds fine to me

[skyLion]: charged particles manifested as uni-directional force

[Zellcrs]: yeah but he also bent a beam of particles and made his own element....................................................................................................................

[skyLion]: kind of like messing with the way quantum forces are directed by manipulating quantun

[skyLion]: technally he reflected a beam off a mirror

[skyLion]: I dont know if particle beams work like lasers

[Zellcrs]: which is impossible.

[Kamiko]: Now that I'd buy, Sky.

[Zellcrs]: particles have a hard time with people trying to direct them, they're more likely to completely scatter...as opposed to being focused which is impossible....

[skyLion]: unless you are anova who controls quantum

[skyLion]: i think particle beams are actually an area of real world research

[Zellcrs]: yes, within a fucking vacuum..

[Zellcrs]: air is made up of particles, therefore any subatomic particle beam would instantly diffuse...as it interacts with gases...

[Kamiko]: but using quantum as a medium, you can project a stream of particles.

[Zellcrs]: Yes, in the land of make believe.

[skyLion]: anyways, the suite powers I am looking at are (format: book name/my definition) propel/Flight, ripple shield/Repel, storm/Force Storm, gravikinesis/Telekinesis, gravitic shield/Repulsion Field, crush/Crush, imprison/Force Cage, spatial shockwave/Directed Force

[skyLion]: Zell...we have entered the land of make believe

[skyLion]: all are basically application of manipulating the force field he is constantly projecting that pushes everything away

[Zellcrs]: god....damnit....nappa..

[kael]: waves 'hi' to Mala, Long, and Zell.

[Kamiko]: Zell: Stay frosty, Vegeta.

[Long6]: SkyLion like Pax

[skyLion]: Pax is defined as "kinetic"

[skyLion]: though the team here is forcing me to get more specific ans say "how" the kinetics are applied

[skyLion]: sems like the creation and manipulation of charged particles to be defined as a force filed is sufficient to satisfy them

[skyLion]: personally...this is all comic book physics anyways

[Malachite]: ......What level is this suite power?

[skyLion]: I dont feel the need to get so into it as some here do

[skyLion]: for me it is enough to say'they are novas, they use quantum to do stuff that seems like magic"

[skyLion]: you mean how many dots?

[skyLion]: 7+mastery

[Carver]: No, she's asking what is the Power Level?

[skyLion]: gotta wrap this up here quick, roomies are home going to watch a film

[skyLion]: Suite powers are always 3

[skyLion]: mastery makes it 4

[Carver]: So you want all those things, for a Level 3 power

[Carver]: ?

[Malachite]: That should be a Level 4 suite.

[Malachite]: You're cherry picking from at least three different power suites.

[skyLion]: yes its level 4

[Malachite]: No, before mastery.

[Carver]: Before Mastery.

[skyLion]: you get one technique per dot plus one for every extra

[skyLion]: sorry but no

[skyLion]: thats not how the rules work

[skyLion]: you can even invent wholesale new techniques if you want

[Malachite]: *hands him another cheese stick*

[skyLion]: whatever

[skyLion]: Id ont care if you guys think its cheesy

[skyLion]: you guys said the same thng with Raijin and his EM: "Ki Mastery"

[skyLion]: but Mala still approved it

[Malachite]: *shrugs* I don't care to play with you.

[skyLion]: again, player defined powers, fluff follows function

[Carver]: You're pulling up a ruling from another game five years ago?

[skyLion]: Mala, tell me who your PCs are in QF and I'll keep a wide birth

[skyLion]: no I am calling you are your hypocrasy

[skyLion]: you guys said the same thing before "cherry picking blah blah" you know what? I dont care...

[Malachite]: *shrugs again* I didn't have much experience as an ST then. It was five years ago.

[skyLion]: Im cherry picking for my concept and you know what? it works, and its awesome, so there

[Carver]: The only person who gets to say no is Krul. And I hope he does.

[skyLion]: you guyus are just jealous?

[Malachite]: Wow....are you sticking your tongue out, too?

[skyLion]: ignore questionmark

[Carver]: Oh god. Not this again.

[Malachite]: falls over laughing.

[Carver]: Sky, I'm not jealous of you at all. Why would I be?

[Malachite]: God, you are such an immature, low self-esteem prick.

[skyLion]: you are clearly threatened by good ideas and ingenious application of build rules

[Zellcrs]: He's a mini troll.

[skyLion]: you dont like it so you try and ruin it for me

[Malachite]: You are clearly living a world far divorced from what the rest of us like to call "reality".

[Asarasa]: Night guys, I have to work tomorrow

[Malachite]: Get some therapy.

[skyLion]: and...this is what I was saying when I first came in the room...you guys are assholes to me, so why even bother?

[Malachite]: Night Asa, sleep well. :kiss:

[skyLion]: its depressing for me that this is the only place to play aberrant on the web

[Malachite]: Then leave.

[Malachite]: Please.

[Asarasa]: :kiss:

[Carver]: Sky: I'm not threatened by you. I just want people to play by the rules and not ruin the game for other people.

[skyLion]: Mala: Im sure you would like that...unfortunatley I dont feel like giving you the pleasure

[skyLion]: Carver: I AM playing by the rules

[skyLion]: to the letter in fact

[Carver]: That wasn't directed at you.

[Carver]: Those are just the reasons I speak out about abuses I see.

[skyLion]: I could make up whole new powers that break the rules as is (as Ein did with his new enhancments)

[Lobby]: Asarasa has left at 11:16 pm

[skyLion]: and I would be in the rules

[skyLion]: the rules say you can make up your own powers, do whatever you want

[Carver]: So long as they're approved for play.

[skyLion]: I get that you and Mala think its "cheesy" but I could probably find cheesy things you and others have done

[skyLion]: cheese is after all a matter of taste

[skyLion]: if Im not breaking the rules why do you care?

[Carver]: Because your actions have ruined the fun of other people in the past, and I have seen nothing that makes me think you've changed.

[skyLion]: to the point where you would actually invent a whole new rule making it a level 4 power (even though the power techniques themselves are all more like level 2 powers)

[Carver]: And that's IC and OOC actions.

[skyLion]: just because iI picked the suite powers i wanted

[skyLion]: So Carver i ask you again...as I did when I came in here..is it worth it?

[skyLion]: you guys will never accept me

[skyLion]: at least you and mala wont

[skyLion]: Krul, Envoy, WR, and Ein seem pretty friendly

[skyLion]: You are her though...I can tell you have a grudge

[Kamiko]: What I'm seeing is someone manipulating other people's words to get their way. You're a troll and a politician, Sky. I'm not seeing any redeeming qualities from you. Krul, Envoy, WR and Ein don't know you like most here do. And you've made a VERY bad first impression with me.

[Carver]: I do'nt have a grudge as much as a memory of events past.

[skyLion]: Ein knows me plenty Kamiko

[Long6]: Sky, you are one of the biggest munckins I know

[Carver]: As I have said before, our relationship is the sum of our interactions, not the sum of the current one.

[skyLion]: and whose words have I manipulated?

[skyLion]: I am about the least political of people here

[Kamiko]: HAH!

[skyLion]: Carver and Mala play politics

[skyLion]: I just want to fucking game

[Kamiko]: Their CHARACTERS play politics.

[skyLion]: Long: coming from you that means a lot

[Long6]: then make something normal

[Kamiko]: That's their thing.

[Carver]: Sky: Mine, at the least. You don't do it intentionally, but you only remember/read/hear what you want to hear when people talk to you.

[Long6]: quit trying to be the most special snowflake

[Carver]: Sky: I'm not my character.

[skyLion]: Long: why would I want to do that? normal is bO-RING

[Long6]: SkyLion it should fucking tell you something

[skyLion]: Long: except I dont take my min maxing proclivities as a bad thing. I am pro-optimization

[skyLion]: and proudly

[skyLion]: I see nothing wrong with it

[skyLion]: I dont even consider myself cheesy

[skyLion]: cheesy is when you break the game in DnD like with Pun Pun

[Long6]: then you need your head examined

[skyLion]: nothing I do shatters the game world like that to the point you cant play anymore

[skyLion]: so I guess I would say "practical oprimization"

[skyLion]: wow Long, I thought we were friends

[Kamiko]: Sky, you're an insult to optimizers. What you do is outright rules munchkinism.

[skyLion]: clearly you have a lower opinion of me than I had realized

[skyLion]: Kamiko: defend your statement..what have I done?

[Long6]: I thought that the potential was there Sky to redeem you, much as some of the players here redeemed me

[skyLion]: ands for the record my proposed QF character is not the most powerful one in the game...i dont even have Q8...so

[Kamiko]: The evidence is clear from the chat logs. I'm not going to waste time retreading. It's a waste of energy.

[skyLion]: defend your accusations

[Long6]: I went mechanics first then the character for a very very long time

[Kamiko]: This isn't a court case.

[Kamiko]: This is me callign bullshit.

[skyLion]: Kamiko: then I cant accept your statement..its is an emotional one unbacked by facts...nothing I have done is even breaking the RAW musch less getting into munchkin territuory..in a game of *(Q8* gods

[Long6]: all that really mattered was that I was the best Some VERY patient people were here and gave me time and worked with me to grow beyond that

[skyLion]: and I call bulshit on your bullshit

[Long6]: I THOUGHT I could pay it forward

[skyLion]: Long: nothing wrong with being the best at what you do

[skyLion]: its worked well for Wolverine

[Long6]: you don't want to change, or even entertain the idea of playing aother way

[Long6]: if that's all you got that's weak

[skyLion]: well what do you want me to say Long? Like Ive stated...I wont even big the biggest best mofo in the game

[skyLion]: so how does that make me munchkin if Im not even the best

[skyLion]: the ONE thing I will probably be the best at is...soaking damage...though that is debatable as I havent seen what everyoe has...Ein might have me beat

[skyLion]: but that is the characters theme...impentrable force field

[skyLion]: so what is wrong with that?

[Carver]: Sky: It's boring.

[Long6]: damn boring

[skyLion]: As fpr changing or playing another way...my time to game is more limited than most of you here..if Im going to play it should be something I like...so why play a wimpy character for an exercise in role playing mind expansion when I havent yet gotten to play the godlings that made me want to play Abby in the first place?

[Carver]: Your PC can't be physically hurt at all... lame.

[skyLion]: a force field is boring on its own yes but it is a viable theme

[skyLion]: Carver: says you

[skyLion]: Couriers character cant be hurt at all either

[skyLion]: is that lame?

[Carver]: Yes.

[kael]: Sky, have you ever thought of playing a character below par?

[skyLion]: I could do that way cheaper waaay cheaper than what I have paid for by taking DD 5

[Carver]: I often clash with Courier over his PCs.

[skyLion]: Kael: as I said no...I have yet tpo play my godlings so I dont yet have any interest in playing a sub par no

[skyLion]: Courier is one of my oldest pbp friends

[kael]: Ah, sorry, missed that.

[kael]: I've been in and out of chat, here. My bad.

[skyLion]: he was in my first ever Pbp game back on EON...he is an excellent optimizer

[skyLion]: Kael: no worries

[Malachite]: Sky - You don't just munchkin out your characters, you make them boring and then use the abused mechanics to try stomp all over every other player in the game in your bid to "win". The bullshit you pulled in DR with Jon and Jasmine was the point at which you crossed the line over to irredeamably crappy player and a -person- in need of therapy.

[skyLion]: well Im glad you are clear Mala...I wont try being your friend ever again and if you want me t be an enemy I can play that role for you. Otherwise just tell me which PCs to perma-ignore

[Carver]: Which *was* a time you broke the rules.

[skyLion]: I broke no rule

[Carver]: Yeah, Jas made an Intimidate roll and you refused to abide by the sux she received.

[Malachite]: Sky - I don't have near enough time or energy to waste on caring if you consider me an "enemy" or not. I think you're a piss-poor player and a sub-par human. *shrugs* That's my opinion.

[skyLion]: great Mala

[skyLion]: thanks

[Carver]: I believe you said that your big male PC would never be intimidated by a "little girl".

[skyLion]: and you call me a troll

[Malachite]: Yes, I do.

[Carver]: You blanantly ignored the rules because you didn't like the outcome. You lost a lot of people's respect.

[skyLion]: more like my 7 foot tall armored PC would not be intimidated by a little soft flesh and bloos girl but yeah

[Malachite]: Although, actually, that was Kamiko who called you a troll first. But I'll go along, it's a good description.

[skyLion]: Mala: and yet you are the one flaming me with personal defamations

[Carver]: Sky: You ignored the rules. So you can't say you've never even bent them.

[Malachite]: shrugs again.

[Zellcrs]: I had first Mala, see how little you pay attention to me.

[Kamiko]: Actually Zell fired the first Troll shot.

[skyLion]: Mal, Carve, just list your PCs and you wont ever have to worry about me

[Kamiko]: Twice

[skyLion]: I can never guess who is who around here

[Malachite]: :kiss: I'm sorry, Zell!

[Zellcrs]: Hehe I feel better now.

[skyLion]: So cross Zell, Kamiko, Carver and Mala off the friendly list,...

[Malachite]: That's what kisses are for. :biggrin:

[skyLion]: Long you want to be put on ignore as well or are we good?

[Long6]: you might as well

[Zellcrs]: sure are Mala

[skyLion]: Friend List so far: Courier, Cent, Ein, Kael, Envoy, WR

[Long6]: honestly I wish you luck trying to find someone to actually play with

[skyLion]: Sorry to hear that Long, so long

[Carver]: Sky: You need to talk to Ein. He was pretty upset over the Jas thing from DR.

[Long6]: it's gonna be pretty quiet for him if he's ignoring all of us

[skyLion]: Carver: Ein and I have had longconvos not too long ago

[skyLion]: we had some alone tiome in chat and we hashed out a lot of stuff

[skyLion]: he even helped me work out some kionks for 200x

[skyLion]: it was a very productive and friendly convo

[skyLion]: he even said I was a good writer

[skyLion]: made me blush

[Malachite]: Your writing capability hasn't been questioned at any point, I don't believe.

[skyLion]: Long: just trying to make a list of friends I have here to play ith and who are my haters

[skyLion]: Maybe I should post on the boards about it.

[Malachite]: Seriously, Sky, and I say this knowning that you will ignore me, but if you're doing something -that- immature, you need help. Therapy at best and at least some people that will challenge you to act above a third-grade emotional level if you can't/won't get professional help.

[skyLion]: its not immature

[skyLion]: its clarifying

[kael]: Sky, I think what this fundamentally comes down to is philosophy of play. You prefer a certain style of play that doesn't seem to be compatible with how other people play. I haven't played with you, so I obviously can't comment first hand, but it seems apparent from what you have said.

[Malachite]: Yes. It is.

[skyLion]: in order for me to actually play and have fu here I need to disinguish who are the people who will never forgive/like me and who actually wants to have fun gaming

[skyLion]: Kael: could you define "style of play"

[skyLion]: and please disinguish between style of character

[skyLion]: it seems like what most people seem to object to s my style of character

[Malachite]: Actually, it seems that those of us that want to have fun playing are the majority of people that don't want to interact with -you-.

[skyLion]: come on Mala

[skyLion]: admt it: this is school yard clique shit

[skyLion]: you guys have your little crew and have decided you dont like me

[Carver]: Sky: If you want to avoid my PCs in QF, they are Infinity and the Morrigan.

[Carver]: As the Morrigan is closely bound to Einherjar and you want to do stuff with him, this should get interesting.

[skyLion]: Carver: I dont have a desire to avoid your PCs specifically but you have not made me feel welcome

[Malachite]: You ignore rules because of your mysogynism, your characters are made to "win" or "be perfect" instead of being designed with cooperative play and an actual personality in mind, and you're antogonistic to the point of just being childish when anyone objects about something involving you or your characters.

[skyLion]: Mala has made me feel unwelcome

[skyLion]: so hers I will probably avoid or be antagonistic to if it is appropriate

[Malachite]: Actually, I had no idea how anyone other than Carver felt about you until tonight.

[Malachite]: But yeah, I'd rather you weren't here.

[kael]: (I'm guessing but) you seem to make a point of trying to optimize "bang-for-the-buck" on your character, and then aim to make your an overtly dominant force in the game. By contrast, most of the players on this site seem to prefer characters who have power, but also have certain weaknesses, and who (when they are dominant) are more likely to be covertly dominant (i.e. politically). I don't think you can differentiate between style-of-play and style-of-character, since they're inter-related, and I suspect caused by an underlying philosophy of play.

[skyLion]: you are right on the first but not on the second

[skyLion]: and actually I dislike political games usually

[skyLion]: I soprt of deplore politics and manipulation

[skyLion]: though my most successful game here was one where I played a manipulator

[skyLion]: but we glossed over the details as the game spanned centuries of time

[kael]: What do you mean by "the second"?

[Carver]: You are aware that social rules are used in QF, and that ignoring them will cost you xp?

[skyLion]: i optimize bang for buck but I have yet to be a dominant force in any game I have played in

[skyLion]: Carver: I have taken that into consideration in my build yes

[Carver]: Soooo... you have Social Shield maxed then?

[skyLion]: maybe

[skyLion]: I havent yet decided the extend to which I want to be immune to maniplative ytypes

[skyLion]: I may opt for this as a vulnerability

[skyLion]: and just see what happens

[Carver]: Which would be good.

[Carver]: Night Out post

[kael]: Alright. I'm just going by what I've picked up from what you've said in chat, and extrapolating. As I've said, I haven't played with you, so it's all guessing (or extrapolation, or WAGs).

[skyLion]: Kael, would you like to be on my friend list?

[kael]: Sure?

[kael]: I tend to talk to everyone.

[kael]: At least, when I'm not grumpy.

[Carver]: Sky: You coudl drop the list and persevere in attempting to change people's opinions about you.

[kael]: I doubt we'll play in the same game, though. I don't rule it out, it just seems unlikely to me.

[skyLion]: Carver: it feels like an uphill battle

[skyLion]: Mala just admitted she wishes I wasnt here

[Carver]: And it will be.

[skyLion]: Zell and Kamiko wrongly called me a troll

[kael]: It seems an uphill battle because it is, Sky.

[skyLion]: this convo started because I was sad about being so unwanted

[skyLion]: Kael...thats bullshit man. I game for happy fun times not to battle uphill or otherwise..at least ooc

[Carver]: People have a bad impression of you. Changing impressions is work. but it can be done.

[kael]: Sure. So does Mala.

[skyLion]: Id much rather know who are my friends and who wants to play with me than try and change other peoples opinions of me...that my friend is a losing battle

[kael]: But you both come to the table with different goals and expectations on interaction.

[kael]: Or to put it another way, you come from different gamer cultures.

[Carver]: Only if you aren't willing to do the work to show them you're not the person they think you are.

[Carver]: brb

[skyLion]: yeah, some people dont get along...why try and force it?

[kael]: That comment goes both ways, Sky.

[skyLion]: Carve: I dont want to "put in work" I just want to put in time playing and writing with people I enjoy

[kael]: When you feel like people don't get what you're saying, you need to realize that they might be feeling the same way about you.

[Varro]: Hey all\

[skyLion]: hey Varro

[kael]: Howdy, Varro. Que Passa?

[skyLion]: Varro: are we friends? I mean, are you into rping with me?

[skyLion]: Im making a list...

[Varro]: Yes

[Varro]: lol

[Varro]: IPlease do add me

[Varro]:

[kael]: @SL: Sometimes, people would rather stop dealing with an issue than try to fix it, because they've gotten too frustrated with trying to fix it.

[Kamiko's Cabana]: Varro has entered at 12:03 am

[skyLion]: Kael, that's how I feel

[skyLion]: nothing I say will make them not think I am cheesy

[skyLion]: and I dont think I am cheesy

[skyLion]: so that is a fundamental difference of opinion

[kael]: Yep. :-(

[kael]: Sometimes that's just how life is.

[kael]: Your best way of convincing them is to convince people that haven't made up their minds.

[kael]: Of course, more importantly, if your approaches are so fundamentally different, you probably wouldn't really enjoy playing with them in any case.

[Carver]: Hey, Varro.

[Carver]: back

[skyLion]: im making a new topic about it where people can weigh in

[skyLion]: again Mala may call this immature but I think the opposite

[skyLion]: Im tired of barking up the wrointrees

[skyLion]: I just want to play with folks who enjoy my company and vice versa

[skyLion]: thanks for your insight though dude

[kael]: I think your goals are reasonable. I also think it's self defeating to frame others in a negative light if you intend to co-exist with them.

[kael]: So my finally advice here (which is worth a little less than what you've paid for it, according to Mr. Clemens) is just be careful about how you say things.

[kael]: Because keeping a level head is the best way to gain respect, even from those who disagree with you.

[skyLion]: I dont want to frame others in a negative light

[skyLion]: I just want o be clearabout who doesnt like me.

[skyLion]: anyways

[skyLion]: my roommates are calling

[skyLion]: I gotta jet

[kael]: nods.

[skyLion]: cath you all later

[kael]: Have a good one!

[kael]: Happy Thanksgiving!

[Carver]: Later

[skyLion]: Hapy TG

[Lobby]: SkyLion has left at 12:16 am

[WhiteRain]

[Carver]: You blanantly ignored the rules because you didn't like the outcome. You lost a lot of people's respect.

[skyLion]: more like my 7 foot tall armored PC would not be intimidated by a little soft flesh and bloos girl but yeah

[Malachite]: Although, actually, that was Kamiko who called you a troll first. But I'll go along, it's a good description.

[skyLion]: Mala: and yet you are the one flaming me with personal defamations

[Carver]: Sky: You ignored the rules. So you can't say you've never even bent them.

I feel this is a rather important point. Someone beats you on an intimidate roll, you're intimidated. It's up to you as the RPer to figure out what it is exactly that intimidates the character, but you need to work that out. You don't get to just say 'my guy's too hardcore to be intimidated'. And Wolverine gets scared sometimes, too.

You've got to admit, Sky, you've come in on a bad wave. Your first character was a mish-mash of 'squick' as you like to say, and seemed to serve no purpose other than being squicky. When I pointed out to you that nobody was going to want to do RP sex with him, all of a sudden he fell apart. That's going to look bad however you spin it. You're quite right in pointing out that Chang has those elements, but I don't focus on them. They're parts of a larger whole. If you do the same thing there wouldn't be half as much trouble.

And I have to point out that you're missing the boat by a gigantic margin to make this list of yours. You want to cross Mala off? That's kind of unfortunate because her characters are tied up neck deep in ALL of the plot MY characters are in. There's really no way you can do anything substantive with Chang and definitely not with Brute without running into Puck and Sakura sooner or later.

This is the problem. One character isn't just a character on their own. They affect the game world around them. If they didn't why would you make them in the first place? You can't just say 'I want to do this so there', and that's exactly what you're doing. I dont mind RPing with you because I don't mind RPing with anyone, but you've caused a ridiculous amount of drama. And no it's NOT just people objecting to your characters, you're creating a lot of it by not listening, by being stubborn, and coming to us asking for opinions and throwing a shit fit when you don't hear what you wanted to. What I'd suggest is that you calm down, listen more, and when people are objecting to things you do, maybe consider trying to find a less egregious way of getting the job done.

You have A LOT of Nova points to throw around. There's nothing wrong with taking the long way round to get a result from time to time. I know I did.

Just my four or five cents.

P.S. I agree with carver: Em: Forcefield is bullshit. Not that I'd leave the game over it, but I disagree fundamentally with that being a suite power.

[SkyLion]

Yes White Rain...there are people here who hate me. As in, despise my being as a person over this. And that really underscores what I have been feeling, what I indicated at the very beginning of the chat log. If even a few people in a open gaming environment hold such a negative frame for me, it poisons the whole thing for me. I know I still have friends here, but overall it feels like a very hostile place to me.

Second I'd like to clarify that Carnal's intimate life was going to be strictly off camera in regards to sex and I had no intention of writing sex scenes with anyone (I tried once and didn't really like writing about it).

As for being stubborn and not listening...it goes both ways. The folks here are equally as intractable and even more self righteous about it, to the point of antagonism. I'm just using the system. I am pro optimization. I fully endorse the idea that mechanics are there to apply what happens in the system but that the fluff of how it gets done is up to the player. This is supported by the actual books. In fact, I'm not even using an Elemental Mastery anymore. I'm making a new suite power, a manipulation power like gravity or spatial manipulation. I am naming this Force Field manipulation. It is defined as the various ways the character has learned to manipulate the active repulsor nature of his force field. Now...as I have said the "how" it does this in real world terms doesn't really interest me. It is enough for me that "Novas manipulate quantum forces to do_____." My idea is simply for repulsor force fields a la Iron Man. IF pressed as I have been, something like using nova quantum control to manipulate, shape, direct, focus, and amplify the atomic force fields that exist between matter, or the short version: generating and manipulating charged particles.

Even Kamiko said that was a satisfying explanation. Again, it doesn't matter so much to me but I'm not opposed to it either.

I really wish I could play in a game the way I used to, with a relatively small cast of players operating as a team, and getting to explore plots and have a good super battle every now and then. That would be really fun. The open world games here are so political, they feel more like LARP style games to me, which are not so much my cup of tea. I'm like games with a nice cadence between role playing social scenes and combat. I suppose that makes me an action gamer.

[SkyLion]

Another thing I would add is that only a few novas actually understand the reality of what they do. All most of them really know is they make things happen. A religious nova who summons angels probably really believes they are angels. A nova who is fast doesn't know how or why he is fast, only that he suddenly gained the ability to do so when it was advantageous. Other aspects are even wierder...MEga Appearance is a subjective thing which is really manipulating the perceptions or neurology of others. A character like mine who flies and has a force field and shoots concussive blasts doesn;t have to know that he is doing so by messing with electromagnetic forces...he just knows "when I think about pushing, a push happens. When things are about to damage me I will myself to deflect them and they don't. Not every character has to be a quantum physicist about their own abilities. A teleporter thinks of a place and they arrive. This is variable to each individual nova. How their powers manifest is tied to their psychology. And let's be honest...the "science" of novas is really science fiction, and not that hard science fiction. It should be enough to say, my nova grows 50 feet tall sprouts 6 arms and 6 wings and summons a flaming sword and explain it as "they think they become an angel and quantum forces let them do it."

[WhiteRain]

I'm more concerned about the aforementioned intimidation incident to be honest.

You're consistently falling back on rules lawyering here, but there you clearly ignored the rules. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

[SkyLion]

That was the distant past and does not bear relevance on what anything I have done now, except for the relevance it has to the people who hate me for it and will never forget nor forgive.

[Shosuro Miren]

Your behavior so far has been exactly the same as that "distant past". That makes it quite relevant.

[SkyLion]

My approach to the game has not changed and neither has yours. We fundamentally have different styles of characters and what we want to experience in play.

Now...Puck..Mala...please respect my original post and not post in this thread. I am quite clear that you do not like me, never will, and the point of this thread is to be clear that I will not intentionally have anything to do with you or your characters ever again so let's just agree to ignore each other from here on out. Make it easier on me and you. Defending myself to you is exhausting and unfun.

[Shosuro Miren]

Then don't.

You made this a thread discussion instead of speaking with people privately in PM's. Public is public. Deal.

[NuclearMind]

I saw this this morning and was tempted to fly right into smartass mode. No one wants that. Don't make me snarky. You wouldn't like me when I'm snarky.

So: Please put me on your "do not interact with" list. In the short time I've been here, you've managed to annoy me enough to ask for that. I could explain it to you, but given the way conversations have gone recently, I suspect you would not understand my reasons and I would grow quickly weary of explaining them.

[Toby Lupin]

I suppose since you have dragged this out so publicly, I will say this:

That was the distant past and does not bear relevance on what anything I have done now, except for the relevance it has to the people who hate me for it and will never forget nor forgive.

It matters, because that incident violated one of the cardinal rules of roleplaying. No matter what, when a roll is completely resolved, if it didn't go your way, ah well. If your master thief got spotted by a half-awake security guard due to a freak pair of rolls, well, it happened. No matter how you describe it, you have to abide by the outcome. And when Jasmine made her roll to Intimidate Jon, you refused to abide by it, breaking that rule- and compounding that problem by using spurious, sexist reasoning to justify that breaking of the rules.

That IS a grave black mark, and Sky, you've not ever even pretended to admit you were at fault. Which means it not only is still relevant, but also plays into all the bad behavior we've been seeing from you. I will not say anything like 'Get Therapy' but I will say you are an unpleasant person online, and I hope you're not like this in RL.

This may be the only place to play Aberrant online, but you can't act like this and hope to be allowed into any games here. Either change your attitude and listen to us, or tough luck, stay off the site.

Jeremy

[SkyLion]

Ive publicly and privately apologized for past transgressions. if people keep bringing them up then that says to me they have not forgiven. In that case no further apology will help.

To be fair Derrik/Jeremy I am not an unpleasant person at all and in fact I play in about 10 other PbP games on other sites and have never had the problems I have had here. Back when EON was up and running I was considered a prolific and well liked and respected member of the community. Even back then when I first came here, this place (then called NPrime) was WAY more belligerent and cliquish...much more close minded and prone to fighting. And not only against me. There have been many people who have had conflicts here: Nova, Dave, and others have faced similar ridicule or otherwise harsh social treatment.

Why is it that on other sites I get along fine but here everyone is super harsh and critical? Why only here?

As for being allowed in games that is up to the STs. I am still waiting to hear back from Krul.

For what it is worth, I can see how my character and Derrick might be able to relate to each other.

[SkyLion]

btw, in regard to that ancient history, I just looked it up. Jasmine got 3 successes on an intimidation roll. I could have rolled to resist it but I didn't. Instead my character bowed his head in remorse for what happened (and it was outside of his control...Jasmine blamed him but he didnt actually do it on purpose) and then backed off...ran home and curled into a ball crying.

So no..far be it from breaking the rules, I actually rolled with what she said. I still disagreed fundamentally with her going PvP with me. She could have said what she had said without the roll and I still would have reacted the same way...

[Toby Lupin]

Ive publicly and privately apologized for past transgressions. if people keep bringing them up then that says to me they have not forgiven. In that case no further apology will help.

To my knowledge, you have never apologized. Furthermore, even if you have, you undercut the credibility of those words last night.

The portions of the convo last night that matter here:

[Malachite]: Sky - You don't just munchkin out your characters, you make them boring and then use the abused mechanics to try stomp all over every other player in the game in your bid to "win". The bullshit you pulled in DR with Jon and Jasmine was the point at which you crossed the line over to irredeemably crappy player and a -person- in need of therapy.

[Carver]: Which *was* a time you broke the rules.

[skyLion]: I broke no rule.

[Carver]: Yeah, Jas made an Intimidate roll and you refused to abide by the sux she received.

[Carver]: I believe you said that your big male PC would never be intimidated by a "little girl".

[Carver]: You blatantly ignored the rules because you didn't like the outcome. You lost a lot of people's respect.

[skyLion]: more like my 7 foot tall armored PC would not be intimidated by a little soft flesh and blood girl but yeah.

Right there, where it is underlined? You said flat out you broke no rule. And that is a big lie the size of Scotland. You're right, no further apology will help- because no one believes them.

And (if they exist) there are PBP sites where you don't have these problems, just go there and stay there. There's no need to go to a site where everyone is (rightfully) critical of you.

[SkyLion]

If there was another site with a lot of PbP Aberrant I would go there, believe me. I am sad EON died and got absorbed here (though I am glad the archives remain).

And again...further investigation (I had to look it up it was so long ago I forgot the particulars) in fact proves that I broke no rule. If anything I voluntarily acquiessed because it was good for the scene. I did not make a resistance roll against her intimidation. She said to leave and find another way back, so my character left and ran back on his own. Case Closed.

[Mr Fox]

Mark me down on the friends list for what its worth. I'm just not here much these days because of work and family. I'm not actively participating in any games and only monitoring Aberrant: Infinite Earth.

As for the intimidate, what Jon 'did' and what you said OOC in chat are two different things. I remember the conversations in chat where you defended the fact that Jon would not be intimidated.

So let me tell you a true story... when I was in Elementary school, I was literally the second or third smallest boy in my grade. I didn't hit a growth spurt and catch up until most of the way through Junior High. So I got bullied quite a bit. One day, one of the biggest baddest bullies in the school pushed me too far. He was bigger than me and faster than me and could have beat me bloody any day of the week and twice on Sundays. But that day he pushed me too far, and I snapped. He could see it in my eyes as I lunged at him, something I had never done before. And me? I could see a sudden and unexpected fear in his eyes. That of course made him even more pissed off afterwards, but for that one moment, this big bastard who was more than a head taller than me and waaay stronger was afraid of little weak me. Now later on, in Junior High he learned to respect me, but that's another story.

So, I have to say, and this is constructive criticism here, when a roll goes against you, rather than getting your back up and trying to justify something, just role with it. So Jon didn't actually ignore Jasmine, but you sure didn't roleplay out being intimidated, and OOC you got defensive and tried to justify how Jon wouldn't have been intimidated. If you had looked at me and the bully side by side and the way we normally interacted together in elementary, you would never in a million years believe I could win an intimidation roll against him, but it happened, that one beautiful glorious instance when he flinched away from the sheer 'I don't give a fuck what happens to me, you just went too far' that he saw in my eyes.

I'm not slamming you, or trying to drag past things out, just giving you one example of how no matter what the 'rules' say, anything can happen, it's up to you the player to role play it out. The big key factor here is that a game is a cooperative environment. If you want to play in one and have fun remember that the game isn't about just you having fun, it's about everyone enjoying it, and sometimes that means compromise. In the case of Jon and Jasmine, desecrating her dead family that she had just discovered lost, was going too far. Sure, what Jon did was totally in character, I absolutely agree with that, however, it pretty much made future interactions with her character impossible on anything other than a negative level. That was one of those situations that you as a player have to weigh your characters actions and decide between 'in character' and future game happiness. How do you want to enjoy the game? If you want to be part of a team and enjoy saving the world, then skull f'ing someones pet isn't the best way to go about it, on the other hand if you want a story in which your character struggles for acceptance among the group because of his kitty raping psychosis then that's different. So my advice to you is, consider your actions in light of your goals for the game. That and don't get so defensive. Listen to what people are telling you and rather than defending your position, try to see their position. You may not agree with them, you may think their logic is flawed... but ask yourself being right is worth? Does it accomplish your goal of having a fun game, or does it just piss off the players and land you outside the campfire of fun happy players in the cold darkness of self-satisfied 'rightness'.

Incidentally, I know this from personal experience... one of the things this site has taught me is that my need to be right, hasn't always served me well. Being right and lonely isn't as much fun as being wrong and a happy part of the group.

[SkyLion]

Heya Fox,

As I stated privately to White Rain earlier in chat, the Jon Jasmine incident is a mistake I have apologized for. It was appropriate for the character and I wanted to make the reveal of Jons powers/affliction to be suitably horrific. However at the time I did not think through the consequences of using a PCs dead family member to do it. If I could go back and redo it, I wold have had Jon's leeches feed off of a random corpse. The idea to do it the dead parents was a spontaneous and ill conceived idea. At the very least I should have really discussed it with the player and only proceeded if they were up for making the conflict that would ensue a fun and productive addition to the story.

To be fair the defensiveness goes both ways here. People have pretty much admitted I face an uphill battle but that atmosphere of mistrust and the venom with which certain parties have expressed their dislike of me makes the whole atmosphere feel unwelcoming. Not totally mind you. I have enough self respect that if it really was the whole board against me I would just leave. The reason I have been persistent to this point is because of people like you and others who seem to understand and appreciate me more or less in a friendly way.

In other news: After a 12 hour (I kid you not) private chat with White Rain, I seem to have resolved the issues some people were having in my choice of language around my theme. The effects are the same but I have a more specific answer now. Funny enough the answer is just as made up as anything else I said but because it has an in game precedent, he said it fit. So, that problem is solved at least with him. Krul still needs to approve it though. In light of all this I am considering just submitting a different character anyways, though I still want to see what Krul thinks as he has seemed to like my ideas so far.

[Adrian Moss]

One difference is that this site has survived. I wonder why that is?

[Dawn OOC]

I'd agree with what Fox said, save the last point: it isn't about being right and wrong so much as being willing to let go of what you "know" to be right to compromise and play well with others. Rules intrepretations and flavor are open to various opinions. Some people have similar opinions about things. Others don't. One of my closest friends here is Mala (in part because we are roomies) but we're not in complete agreement about every single opinion one has expressed to the other. We recently had a long discussion about Abby's social penalty which ended with an agreement to disagree on the matter. It hasn't hurt our friendship, even though we still disagree because we allowed each other to express our views and accepted that our views could be different. Ultimately, it doesn't matter as neither one of us is the ST.

If you want to get into people's good graces (and by that I mean the majority of the board), there are two things you should understand. The Jas incident was resolved only after a bitter argument in chat. As I recall from behind the scenes, Jon fleeing in remorse was the compromise we came up with so that you didn't have to be intimidated by a girl and the game didn't get bogged down. This was before I had the balls as an ST to roll your WP myself and write your PC reacting appropriately if you wouldn't (which is how it would go down now). So the first thing you should understand is that dealing with you has been ugly, painful and often resulted in people having to argue with you for hours. This is the history you have with many of us - painful frustration that ends in ugliness and annoyance on all sides.

The second thing you should know is that changing that impression will be a long, hard road. It will take work, compromise and a willingness to accept that just because you're 'right' doesn't mean you get to have your way. It will take a lot of time for you to counteract the years of bad feelings you have accumulated through your actions. It isn't impossible. There is another person on the boards that I couldn't stand for a long time. It seemed like everything he did annoyed me. He and I had a lot of talks about that, too. Some of them were hard talks that ended poorly. The difference is that he listened and he persisted in trying to understand everyone else and improve his behavior. In many ways, he hasn't changed, but through mutual understanding, we have come to appreciate and understand one another. He still gets to play PCs that he likes, and while we may still clash and agrue about them, he's included here. I enjoy interacting with his PCs and look forward to reading more posts from him.

It takes effort. It takes compromise. Yes, a lot of us many find it easier than others (and it helps for someone like me, whose impressions of Abby were formed by this place more than by any TT group) but it isn't impossible to be welcome here. It just takes work. This post makes it sound like you have no desire to be accepted, only to exist on the fringes where you can. You're a good writer Sky, and I wish you were willing to work with us instead of trying to force your paradigm on us.

[SkyLion]

EON did not die because of me. Over time the pool of DMs shrunk due to RL issues or people just moving on from the game or gaming. The pool of plyers also shrunk for the same reasons, forcing the few that remained to come here...the only other dedicated Aberrant PbP site. This site simply had a large enough gene pool of dedicated players to last. Also, Chosen pays the bills and runs things here. The survivng EON posters offered to fund the site, but in the end after 2 site admins decided to move on with their lives we were unable to find a replacement...until Chosen graciously offered to host our data. Its great that history is preserved. Its too bad most of the community did not. Of my old pals the only ones still around at all are Courier/Alex Green, Cottus/Centimane, and Heritage...though the last quit Aberrant long before the site went under...he left almost right after I joined th site (not because of me, for his own reasons).

Anyone else still around from old EON? If I forgot to mention anyone else still present, mea culpa...

[Adrian Moss]

I'm not blaming you. I'm applauding this place's emphasis on Role-Playing over mechanics. I should have made that clear. Sorry. This place requires people to write. It requires in depth thought of one's actions. It requires each player to play well with others. I'm not saying that Eon didn't have this. I'm saying that's why myself and several people I know keep coming back.

And, if you think you have it bad, remember or ask about Wakinyan. That was a piece of work.

[Mr Fox]

I think Dawn just summed things up pretty nicely. Give what she just said some serious consideration.

I've have some very bitter disagreements with people on this site over the years. Some of those disagreements even got personal, but we moved beyond it. I'd be honored to play in a game with any of them or play in a game they were running. Not all disagreements work out either, sometimes you just have to walk away from a particular game if you don't feel comfortable with a situation, the key is to do it respectfully and not burn the bridges of friendship on your way out.

[SkyLion]

Adrian: Wakinyan actually predates my time here. It is morbidly comforting that someone here was actually reviled more than me. What was his deal?

Dawn/Fox: To be fair Dawn...I think you and I have different approaches to life on many matters so coming coming into discussions our internal biases already set us up for conflict. I think an agree to disagree policy is not a bad idea but as you know it's easier said than done.

Based on his own admissions to me, I am guessing the "other" you refer to is Long. In many ways you are correct that he still likes to play characters similar to myself. I am guessing the difference is that you have helped make him more writerly. I am a good writer but a lot of times I am more of a gamer...I have trouble writing solo fics...I prefer plot based games or more traditional team based play. The open world, self-directed games that dominate here are harder for me to get my head into and make casual enjoyment more difficult. Yet that is what I have to work with so I am muddling my way through.

So a question then becomes, how does Long still get to play his min-maxed characters, one's you admittedly clash over, yet still receive the respect and consideration as a player. Basically it has to go both ways. It can't just be me easing off the trigger of mistrust...others have to do it too. It's like this one book on relationships I read about when there is a power differential. When one party is "down" and the other one is "up" to the down person trying to prove themselves to the up party is demoralizing and actually makes the dynamic worse. That is why breaches of trust almost always sooner or later dissolve the relationship. It's a losing battle unless both parties are able to forgive and move on. The person who is down has to build themselves up yes, but unless the up person can let go and cut the down party some slack, the dynamic worsens. The flip side is...when the down person actually tries to come up and the up person extends them kindness, the dynamic actually starts to balance itself again.

And that is what I have been feeling here. Certain parties hold a certain view of me. Even holding that view actually helps create it. Have yo ever gone away and changed or grown as a person...but when you get around old friends you slip back into earlier behavior patterns? It's the dynamic created that is responsible for this. They still see you the old way and impose that expectation on you, creating a kind of inertia that is a real challenge to overcome. I faced this once in real life. I felt different but being around those old friends brought out "the old me." I felt old urges and compulsions and behaviors coming up, and had to ask myself why all of a sudden I was feeling this way. It is because my friends still held an intention for me to be the "old" me, and were not allowing me to exist for them in an expanded form. As Goethe said: "Treat a man as he is and he will remain as he is. Treat a man as he can and should be and he will become as he can and should be."

So...it goes both ways. If you don't want me to be the old SkyLion then please stop rubbing my nose in old shit I have moved beyond. Stop being hostile and assuming the worst. If you want to see nice happy fun Skylion...be friendly to me and open to me. If you see me being a powergamer..instead of trying to get me to change my preferred style of play or self-nerf, help me take my powerful character and make them more interesting. I'm not likely to start roleplaying normal humans anytime soon. I like Aberrant precisely because the mechanics make godlings playable. But since you guys admit I'm a good writer, help me make them better. The last chat I had with Einherjar, he was incredibly patient and helpful in this regard and we both came out of the interaction feeling great and the character in question was not only better, but had more avenues to connect with others. In other words...it can be done! For those holding old grudges...you might be surprised if you stopped being so condescending about my love of optimization and started being more cool about it.

Which leads me to: I have felt a lot of hostility here and a lot of it to me at least feels like it comes out of nowhere or out of the past when people suddenly rehash old shit. This air of hostility raises my hackles, puts me on the defensive (good catch Fox), and makes communication that much harder. I'm not trying to place blame and responsibility on all of you. I need to work on being less defensive. But it would be a hell of a lot easier if I wasn't expecting to get slammed the moment I open my mouth about a character I'm working on. I'm just saying...it goes both ways...

[WhiteRain]

I'm sure it wasn't 12 hours, unless your stubborness actually caused me to black out and you were talking while I was in a coma. I think it was about 4 hours, not that this isn't an absurd length of time.

Since you mentioned that chat, I have to point out that in those 4 hours we managed to accomplish precisely one thing: getting you to narrow down a vaguely and barely acceptable paradigm for your character's suite power.

However, you still refused to compromise one inch. It never even occurred to you. You even said that all you wanted to do was come up with something that would get me 'off your back'. In other words, all you wanted was something that would allow you to do what you wanted to do, without any compromise or change to your build, the build which triggered an hour or so's worth of argument in the chat room that was posted up top.

I don't hate you or anything, but those 4 hours were not well spent. And if it really was 12 hours... good god... the horror.... the horror

Basically, the solution is not asking everyone else to compromise for you while you don't give an inch, and your intransigence is the reason why these arguments get so out of hand so quickly, and result in bad feelings. It's also why people don't think you've changed.

[Sailor OOC]

{I've been advised to retract my last statement}

[Shosuro Miren]

Guys....this is just becoming a flame war at this point. I'd rather not see the forum go through another Nova-like meltdown. People ended up avoiding the site just to avoid all the negative energy floating around it. We're heading into the holidays anyways, I don't want to see the site die down to embers for months.

Those that don't like Sky/his characters/his style of play, just ignore him.

Those that are fine with him, please take the discussion or affirmation of friendship/willingness to play with him to PM.

It will be what it will be. No one is going to change their opinions from a post-by-post war of words.

[SkyLion]

White Rain: From my time zone we started talking initially at about 8 pm at night and we finished up when you left around 8 am in the morning. It wasn't solid chat the whole time but it was pretty consistent.

Kamiko: How dare you accuse me of being a troll when you spew such venom. You are flame-baiting, and I'll have to report it as such.

You obviously have a deep axe to grind. Funny that I don't remember you from before. Did you used to post under a different name?

It is posts and perspectives like yours, Kamiko, that are creating an incredibly toxic environment towards me.

[Sailor OOC]

Interesting how you toss this up when I retracted my statement.

Fine. If you take this as such, I'm a troll.

[SkyLion]

To be fair I posted my statement just as you were editing the content out of yours. I did not see that you had edited until after I made my post.

I honestly don't know where all your hate is coming from? IN what way have I wronged you?

And pulling a stunt like the above post and just quitting out on all your other friends here, just to spite me...that's petty. I'm not trying to be mean by saying that, but c'mon. It's not fair to me or to your friends here.

Where did all this hate come from? I have not once personally attacked you. The most I have said is that you have been calling me a troll when I haven't trolled you at all. Maybe we understand the term differently.

In any case, for anyone else reading...do you see what I am up against? How am I supposed to come here and make nice to people, when someone I don't even really know or have played with is spouting such anger? How do you think that makes me feel? Not welcome I can tell you that.

[SkyLion]

More transparency:

[Long6] 4:31 pm: Tommy. calm down

[Malachite] 4:31 pm: WR - Moderators can read deleted threads.

[Malachite] 4:32 pm: *posts.

[Long6] 4:32 pm: I doubt Chosen will ban you

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:32 pm: Oh really? Clever

[Malachite] 4:32 pm: Again, though, Chosen is pretty chill and knows Sky's history.

[Kamiko] 4:33 pm: I'm not even going to bother with things here anymore I'm burned out

[Heritage] 4:33 pm: well I have to jump back into the retail fray; hopefully there will be a bit more postiness in my threads tomorrow

[Malachite] 4:33 pm: Later Heritage!

[Heritage] 4:33 pm: Kam - I hope you stay

[Heritage] 4:34 pm: later, dudes and dudettes!

[Kamiko] 4:34 pm: I closed my game. I don't have the energy for it.

[Malachite] 4:34 pm: Kami - If that's what you feel you need to do, then do so. Also realize that you've just handed Sky what he'll consider a

personal victory by getting you to leave the site.

[Kamiko] 4:34 pm: I'm just going to stick with what I got.

[Kamiko] 4:34 pm: I don't know how well I'm going to post anymore.

[Kamiko] 4:35 pm: I've got alot of drama around me in RL and now this? My only real escape and it's turning into yet another headache.

[Long6] 4:35 pm: how does he affect anything in game at this point

[skyLion] 4:36 pm: you gotta be kidding me

[Kamiko] 4:36 pm: I dont' care what anyone thinks of me anymore. I'm the damn villain hate me.

[Lobby]: Kamiko has left at 4:37 pm

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:37 pm: Kidding you about what, Sky?

[skyLion] 4:37 pm: Kamiko

[skyLion] 4:38 pm: I think I called it though...apparently they have some RL drama going on. It's not the first time someone (myself included)

has let RL drama impact their experience of the site

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:38 pm: he'll be okay. Probably.

[skyLion] 4:38 pm: @Mala: As of now I have no plans to poof

[Long6] 4:38 pm: that's a shame

[skyLion] 4:39 pm: WR: Seriously though...whatever is bugging him, it isn;t me..I'm just a convenient target

[skyLion] 4:39 pm: Long: How do you expect me to come around when you are all being so nasty?

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:40 pm: Oh you definitely bug him. But he's more easily bugged than he might be normally.

[Lobby]: Kamiko has entered at 4:40 pm

[Varro] 4:40 pm: I really wish this whole thing would cool down

[Jeremy] 4:40 pm: wb

[skyLion] 4:40 pm: @Mala: I don;t consider Kamiko leaving a victory...

[Varro] 4:40 pm: it is distrubing the harmony of the community

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:41 pm: Varro: I award thee the understatement of the month award.

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:41 pm: It is edible

[skyLion] 4:41 pm: I honestly don;t understand what I have done to him to make him get so upset.

[Varro] 4:41 pm: I hestitate to say anything at all ... I am going back to gamer Switzerland with Heritage

[skyLion] 4:41 pm: he may not like me or my style but that alone is no grounds for quitting

[Malachite] 4:42 pm: Sky - Have you ever entertained the idea that just because someone doesn't agree with you or like you does -not- mean that

they are trying to sabatoge you in some way? Read your posts in that silly thread you put up. You're crying victim like a little kid that didn't the

candy bar they wanted. Grow up.

[Kamiko] 4:42 pm: At this point I'm going to gamer Japan... they got a constitutional article banning war all together.

[skyLion] 4:43 pm: Mala: that makes no sense. IAs hard as it may be for you to understand I actually do not have beef with any of you

[Malachite] 4:43 pm: That is because in some ways Japan is teh awesome's awesome. In other ways....well, they're the suicide capital of the world.

[skyLion] 4:43 pm: not Kamiko, not you

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:43 pm: I thought Sweden was the suicide capital?

[Kamiko] 4:43 pm: Mala: I'd fit right in there.

[skyLion] 4:44 pm: Im not beinf childish if what I am saying is true...this has become a toxic atmosphere towards me, and Kamiko has proved

it. And you claim you are not trying to sabotage me? You and Long and Kamiko have gone on record saying you wish I would leave...

[Malachite] 4:44 pm: I know Japan is by spades for teens, I thought for the population as a whole (the whole "suicide pacts" epidemic amongst

struggling adults or elderly that feel they are a burden on their families).

[Lobby]: kael has entered at 4:45 pm

[skyLion] 4:45 pm: Seriously...I just want to game

[Jeremy] 4:45 pm: hey kael

[skyLion] 4:45 pm: I really would rather not waste time typing crap that isnt gaming or making gaming happen

[skyLion] 4:46 pm: be;lieve iot or not I lead a busy life and this isnt fun for me (having to defend myself against nasty people)

[kael] 4:46 pm: Hey Jer.

[kael] 4:46 pm: Sky,

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:46 pm: Sky: You've been involved in multiple enormous rows over the past couple of days, each of them several hours long

[skyLion] 4:46 pm: Hey Kael

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:46 pm: Your life can't be -that- busy.

[Malachite] 4:46 pm: I do wish you would leave. You cause noxious drama, are ill-suited to the predominant style of play here, and seem incapable

or entirely unwilling to even contemplate your actions or choices from another person's viewpoint. Disagreeing with you results in being called

"stupid" and "jealous". In short, you bring nothing positive to site and a great deal of negative.

[skyLion] 4:47 pm: WR: I did not seek out those rows

[Malachite] 4:47 pm: And you constantly play the victim card and claim you "don't have time for this" and yet perversely don't just -leave- then.

[Malachite] 4:47 pm: ....and you put words in other people's mouth. "Involved" is not "seek out".

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:48 pm: You may not have sought them out, but you did a lot to make them happen by being incredibly intransigent about everything

you brought up

[kael] 4:48 pm: If you really just want to be here to game, stop struggling with other people's opinions, and just find a game you can enjoy that you

feel comfortable with.

[skyLion] 4:48 pm: which is what makes me thing you guys are ganging up on me to try and make me want to leave

[skyLion] 4:48 pm: which makes me want to stay even more

[Malachite] 4:48 pm: Then you're just immature.

kael sighs.

[Malachite] 4:49 pm: Seriously.

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:49 pm: There is no conspiracy to get you off the site, Sky.

[Malachite] 4:50 pm: Or a dick. You want to stay because you think they people here don't like you and actively want you to leave? That's just

spiteful. Way to go.

[skyLion] 4:50 pm: Kael: quite right, From here on I only discuss my characters with relevant STs and other players whom enjoy chatting with

me about such things

[kael] 4:50 pm: The oak struggles against the storm, while the willow submits. When the storm passes, the willow is still standing, while the oak

has been uprooted.

[skyLion] 4:50 pm: Malachite: It is me rising above the petty hatred

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:50 pm: Well that should cut down on the arguments, for sure.

[skyLion] 4:50 pm: why should I let my detractors keep me from having fun?

[Malachite] 4:50 pm: Kael - I've always loved that metaphor.

[kael] 4:50 pm:

[Malachite] 4:51 pm: No, it really isn't, Sky.

[Malachite] 4:51 pm: It's self-aggrandizement, or at least that statement is.

[kael] 4:51 pm: Sky, the proof is in deeds, not words.

[skyLion] 4:51 pm: WR: Its not a "conspiracy". It is a group of people who want me to leave and will not be nice no matter what I say or do

[Malachite] 4:52 pm: Wanting to stick around -because- people don't like you isn't "rising above petty hatred", it's spiteful. Wanting to stay around

-despite- the dislike of some on the site is rising above emotional conflict.

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:52 pm: You have just been in the most sustained bout of drama I've borne witness to

[Jeremy] 4:53 pm: Sky: Have you tried being more flexible? That might get people willing to let you stay

[Malachite] 4:54 pm: Jer - Oh, "willing to let him stay" isn't even in the equation. Only Chosen has the power to ban him from the site, and only the

ST's have the power to accept or deny him from their games.

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:54 pm: Several people were on the fence pending your actions, and over the last three days you've seemingly confirmed to them

that you haven't changed at all. That's certainly Carver's feeling on the matter, and Long's as well

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:54 pm: Not calling Long out there, but he's said as much

[skyLion] 4:54 pm: If this was truly a 100% hostile environment I would leave. But it is not. There have been a vocal few who Im sure would love

to drive me from here by being mean. Maybe it isnt a conspiracy...they are acting on their own, but they still want to make me leave

[Malachite] 4:55 pm: Much as I dislike him, I'm not going to leave QF if Krul lets him in the game. *shrugs* I'm also not going to hide my dislike of

him or his style of characters/play.

[Malachite] 4:55 pm: Sky - I don't care if you leave or not, if you can manage to stop with victim drama. -That- is why I -do- want you to go away right

now.

[skyLion] 4:55 pm: Jeremy: what flexibility would you suggest that will have these haters stop hating?

[Jeremy] 4:56 pm: Sky: Stop trying to powergame to the extent you have. Actually listen to us. Try some of our suggestions..

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:56 pm: If you had been more open for discussion in the talk about Ricochet's power the whole thing would have lasted maybe ten

minutes

[skyLion] 4:57 pm: well if you want me to not be a victim then the people saying nasty things should stop saying them

[Jeremy] 4:57 pm: Sky: Maybe if you be more flexible, we'll be saying nasty things less

[skyLion] 4:58 pm: there was no discussion there was only "you cant do that"

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:58 pm: And part of the reason there was no discussion was that you replied with 'yes I can'

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:58 pm: Only in different words

[Malachite] 4:58 pm: When you call people "jealous" and "stupid" simply because they have issues with your character build or style of play, well,

you've already kicked off the "nasty" ball.

[skyLion] 4:59 pm: because I can and we all agreed its an St call

[skyLion] 4:59 pm: look, Im a good writer

[WhiteRain.vc] 4:59 pm: And this is where the problems come from

[kael] 4:59 pm: Change your character's power suites and personalities to suit those of the games you are joining. When someone suggests

something to you about your style of play that hurts you or makes you feel attacked, acknowledge the statement, ask for clarification, and then

consider it for twenty-four hours--from the other person's perspective as well as your own--before responding in a non-critical way. Begin such

responses with "What you said to me yesterday (insert recap here), made me feel hurt, because ...., BUT, I can see that this has upset you.

[skyLion] 4:59 pm: Im also a powergamer

[skyLion] 5:00 pm: that isnt going to hange

[kael] 5:00 pm: And don't make statements about your own abilities as fact. Improvement comes from listening to the feedback of others.

[Jeremy] 5:00 pm: Sky: As I recall, on the Sanctum Sanctorum discussion, I said there was no issue to you having a SS, or even it being the

antarctic base... the only issue I had is that you wanted to make it a FRIGGING Bleedship

[skyLion] 5:00 pm: Kael. good ideas

[kael] 5:00 pm: Our enemies are our best friends because they point out our flaws to us, and let us improve. Our friends and our egos tell us what

we want to believe and here, and thereby weaken us.

[skyLion] 5:00 pm: Hey I have to run to work, be back later.

[Mr Fox]

You have made things more transparent, with your chat copying. Suppose this proves you are 'right'... but what does 'right' accomplish for you in terms of reaching your goals? How does continuing this thread or discussion get you into games? All it's doing is proving that you are argumentative and making it less likely you will find people who wish to add you to games.

You are absolutely right about getting around old acquaintances and falling back into old habits. Don't let that be your downfall here. Reach inside and find your zen, take some deep breaths like Kael suggests in the post above, and focus on creating some positive experiences. That's the way to start, then carry on one interaction at a time letting each positive experience build and rebuild relationships around here.

Also, accept that most people on the site really don't like powergaming and that if you join a game with them that isn't intended for powergaming it won't make for a positive experience. Either don't attempt to join that game, or accept that it won't be a game in which you get to flex your Optimization muscles and just enjoy the game for the sake of the story rather than how powerful/cool of a character you can make, and instead make a character that captures the ST's imagination and that will add something to the story.

[Dawn OOC]

I hope that keeping my posts short will help get my point across.

I have said it before, and I say it again - you do not listen when people talk to you.

So...it goes both ways. If you don't want me to be the old SkyLion then please stop rubbing my nose in old shit I have moved beyond.

I need to work on being less defensive. But it would be a hell of a lot easier if I wasn't expecting to get slammed the moment I open my mouth about a character I'm working on. I'm just saying...it goes both ways...

You clearly didn't comprehend my post at all. Or didn't read it. Or care enough about Fox's statement to think that maybe you missed something.

The impression you give with this is that you don't care about anyone other than yourself and your gaming pleasure.

I helped you with your character background even after I expressed serious issues with your PC's mechanical build.

And no, the player I was speaking of wasn't Long. Long is a good player and one I've enjoyed playing with for years. Don't bother with anymore guesses; I won't be revealing it.

[SalmonMax]

*scratches head*

Sky...why did you even start this thread? I've read the opening post like...three times, and I still don't get it.

[SkyLion]

Max: It was a reaction to the nasty reactions people were having to me in chat. Some people dragged out old crap and it made me feel like they had written me off. I decided to take a poll of how everyone felt so I could simply try and not interact with the people who clearly didn't me around, and take a poll of who was still cool with me so I could focus my efforts not barking up the wrong trees.

@Fox: Thanks for understanding. I learned a lot about how others intentions can affect us in a year long coaching program I was in last year.

@Dawn: I do listen. I just heartily disagree on some things. Hence the argumentation.

[Dawn OOC]

@Dawn: I do listen. I just heartily disagree on some things. Hence the argumentation.

I have told you how to change my opinion of you, many, many times. You either don't care or don't understand and I'm not going to keep saying it in the hopes you get it.

[SalmonMax]

Max: It was a reaction to the nasty reactions people were having to me in chat. Some people dragged out old crap and it made me feel like they had written me off. I decided to take a poll of how everyone felt so I could simply try and not interact with the people who clearly didn't me around, and take a poll of who was still cool with me so I could focus my efforts not barking up the wrong trees.

Yeah, but then you post it? That's what I don't get. Poll all you want. Make lists of friends and enemies. Fine fine.

But then you post it.

In what way is that supposed to NOT backfire?

[SkyLion]

I said in the OP I knew it was a drastic measure.