Trinity RPG - Coalition and Earth ?

[ZPP]

Hi it´s my first post.

I have been wondering since I read AI: Deception what happens when the coalition arrives at Earth, are there any more books about it ?

If not what do think is going to happen ?

(sorry about any errors but English is my second language)

[Itai]

Hi it´s my first post.

I have been wondering since I read AI: Deception what happens when the coalition arrives at Earth, are there any more books about it ?

If not what do think is going to happen ?

(sorry about any errors but English is my second language)

On Coalition, you have other books (Trinity rule book and Alien races) but only on what happens before Deception. After Deception, the only thing we have is the text in the old Trinity site:

http://www.white-wolf.com/trinityfiles/Tri...StorySoFar.html, which says: "The Coalition and its hybrid Aberrants arrive in our Solar System intent on conquest."

After that what happens is up to you. If you're interested, on the other Trinity thread I posted a possible outcome.

[Finbar]

Our group totally screwed the main continuity; they ended up blowing the ark up....

Heh.

FR

[Terra Prime]

Our group totally screwed the main continuity; they ended up blowing the ark up....

Heh.

FR

That is one way to do it I think...

As for what I personally think would happen. Doesn't Deception tell us that Coalition technology is decades if not centuries older than earth's? it stands to reason they would defeat the Earth's forces in a war... Earth did just fight a conflict with on Chrome Prime, so the forces would be depleated somewhat. Unless we got the Nova's to lend a hand...

[BlueNinja]

As for what I personally think would happen. Doesn't Deception tell us that Coalition technology is decades if not centuries older than earth's? it stands to reason they would defeat the Earth's forces in a war... Earth did just fight a conflict with on Chrome Prime, so the forces would be depleated somewhat. Unless we got the Nova's to lend a hand...

They have one ship. OK, it's one big mofo, but it's up against the entire human civilization. You know that when the Ark shows up in Earth space, 99% of humanity is going to drop what they're doing and go kick some alien ass. Adding the Edenites to the mix just gives humanity a better chance.

Plus, the Chinese were willing to sterlize the surface of human life before. Why not now? The Colony, after all, does not know the location of all the extra-solar colonies, so the survival of the human race is still insured, and Earth could be repaired later.

[Blue Thunder]

The Ark has other ships within it. All we've seen so far are the fighter ships and the large devices that decended on Erebus to absorb its nutrients, but it's safe to assume there are more.

Also remember the Aberrants are allying with the Ark, if only for the chance to strike Earth at an opportune time. They've also got the Furies on the Ark.

The theme of Trinity is Unity. If Earth's governments, the orders, the colonies, the Qin, the Chromatics, the Edenite novas, and everyone else can all band together, they'll win.

[metaphysician]

Hmm, can't remember. Did they confirm how big the Ark is? I got the impression it was supposed to be "world ship" big, but can't remember any firm numbers.

Though yeah, anybody who can do quick planetary stripmining is a deadly threat, though still not as much a one as the Colony. . .

[Sprocket]

How good are the chances that the Aberrants who've allied with the Coalition are acting on the Colony's orders? Not that the Colony & the Coalition don't qualify as whomping big threats all by their lonesomes, but the chances of them operating separately from each other look to be increasingly slim.

[metaphysician]

Given I'm pretty sure the Colony is the biggest organized hostile aberrant leader/faction, I'd bet on it. Depending on its nature, maybe the Colony hopes to render the entirety of the Coalition a part of it. . .

[Finbar]

That is one way to do it I think...

As for what I personally think would happen. Doesn't Deception tell us that Coalition technology is decades if not centuries older than earth's? it stands to reason they would defeat the Earth's forces in a war... Earth did just fight a conflict with on Chrome Prime, so the forces would be depleated somewhat. Unless we got the Nova's to lend a hand...

It's older; not necessarily more advanced. Outside of the genetic manipulation and some of their weapons systems, they're not that far ahead of Earth, and even the mentioned technologies are only just ahead of Earth...

FR

[Blue Thunder]

Yeah, it needs to be pointed out that the ark may be an ancient ship, but its just that...ancient. It left its home planet hundreds of years ago (or was it thousands of years ago? I think thousands.). Imagine if we sent out a space ark from Earth now, in 2006, by pooling all our resources. Then 500 years it comes back, and it's completely outdated and inferior to anything else we have; it was only advanced 500 years in the past.

The Coalition has far more advanced genetic engineering though. Their biology is also much more able to adapt and change and be altered, and their pheromonal abilities are highly advanced. They have some pretty nasty weapons, and even some really advanced tech (take for instance those gigantic "sifters" that have the ability to sap a planet's surface of all life, nutrients, minerals, and resources). Their society is also very organized and efficient. Their basic threat is that they have such a massive ship and so many phyles. Who knows how many fighter ships they have; their true military might has yet to be seen. They've also got Aberrant help (not too shabby...especially if the Colony itself appears), and the new Furies phyle of Aberrant crossbreeds that are sure to be pretty nasty. Those "sifters" would cause all kinds of havok if even one of them managed to touch down on Earth. Imagine one of those things carving a path through a major city!

There are parts of the ark that aren't in use anymore, and most of the ship is old and could use fixing up. The Coalition seems obsessed in its mission to collect genetic samples and apply them to their collective but thats all they do; hop from planet to planet collecting resources and genetic samples. They never colonize any planets or leave any phyles behind to start societies. They have their own little society on the ark but they don't change that society over time like humans do. If you compare human society to itself from a 100 years in the past (or 50, or 10, or even 1 year) you'll see major changes; human society is constantly shifting and changing. The Coalition never changes...it only adds more phyles as it acquires more genetic material. Everything about the Coalition seems stuck in time. I doubt they've changed anything about themselves or their ship since they first set-off from their homeworld, outside of adding new phyles to their collective.

[Alex Green]

Problems

#1: If they get to the Earth, they can probably wipe out all life with bio-weapons.

#2: They presumably have huge numbers. The Arc is smaller than the Earth, but it's a 3D structure where as only the Earth's surface is used for people. They could have millions, 10s of millions, or even billions on board.

#3: Technology: The Arc has been raiding planets for a long time. Mankind hasn't been in space very long. The implication is theirs is better than ours.

#4: One of their castes can (effectively) control minds.

#5: One of their castes is an aberrant one. It's very unclear what this means, it might mean that they have thousands of 30 nova point warriors.

#6: They are pretty much a unified race.

#7: They have already captured humans in the past and therefore have already created anti-human weapons.

#8: They have been in communication with the Colony and presumably have some idea of our defenses. Knowing what they are, and our level of technology, they are still coming. I.e. they think they can win.

Conclusion: Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[Alistaire]

Seeing as I've been reading Deception over the past few days in preparation for our embarkation on this adventure (perhaps tomorrow?), maybe I can shed some light on some things:

- "The Coalition's ark has travelled from the center of the galaxy for centuries." p 91 (resolving the age issue)

- "The Coalition's space ark is a mammoth creation spawned by technology as much as a hundred years more advanced than Earth's." p 86 (note: "more advanced", not "older")

- "The ark provides a base of operations and a means to transport itself from star to star. Beyond that, its capabilities are largely untapped." p 87 (leaving the GM with room to play should Earth beat back the Coalition, they could come back stronger. Or perhaps the smarter abbies figure out how to use some of it, against Earth and/or the Coalition)

- "The craft is practically a world unto itself, capable of sustaining a billion inhabitants indefinately." p 86 (helps estimate of size. Super-quick very-rough estimate: Assuming 5000/sq.km (Toronto density), makes 200,000 sq.km. With say 3 m deck height, makes 600,000 km^3. Cube root 600,000=~ 84 km per side (if a cube, which it isn't). Not accounting for structure and infrastructure space.)

- "The ship's control systems are entirely automated." p 87 (giving room for both abbies and PCs to wreck some havok)

- "In addition to housing 800 million inhabitants, the Coalition ark also carries a fleet of smaller craft, from single-person fighters to transports to large mineral sifters and survey craft." p 87 (it's up to you if this is a complete list, or only showing the range of craft available)

- Several mentions of multiple "arcologies" in the ship where people live. If one assumes that these are as big as Earth arcologies, then well, that's big. Overall, I'm thinking Death Star, without the super-laser; 100 km+?

One thing Earth has to it's advantage, especially given the aberrant-Coalition alliance, is that they both plan to betray each other, and indeed the abbies attempt a coup of sorts at the end of The Devil's Bargain. Combined with BT's comment about "unity" being the key to human survival, dis-unity among the enemy would serve as an excellent object lesson methinks. I'm still wondering how to make the ark's arrival and subsequent war an adventure (or several) myself. Perhaps the PCs must sow discord among the enemy? Help unite Earth? I'm also picturing major, Evangelion-like human-evolution type major plotlines, but that's going to be tough to pull off. Good thing I have time yet, yeh?

[Finbar]

Gee...One teleporter (nova or psion) + Apollo Milliken = BOOM! I think that it may take a few Authority-level novas backed by some teleporters, an electrokinetic, and abiokinetic (teleporters for transport, electrokinetics to find weaknesses quickly, and the biokinetic to provide cover for the pheromones), but the Coalition ark is going down!

FR

[Alex Green]

Gee...One teleporter (nova or psion) + Apollo Milliken = BOOM!

Maybe. Maybe not. Potential Problems:

1) I remember reading a piece of sf-war-fiction where all the aliens could teleport. At one point they tried to take out the human commander by teleporting into central command with guns and shooting him before he could react. The teleporters had great reflexes, practice, and the advantage of *total* suprise. None of them even got a shot off. Even caught totally flat footed, the security computer still reacted *MUCH* quicker than they did and shot them dead before they could even pull their triggers.

2) Porting is a known power. Nukes are known. If the Arc were worried about the combo they haven't shown it.

3) OK, fine. You port in... and you drop a nuke on the place. It's *BIG*. Moon sized big. The nuke might not do as much as we'd like to think.

Worse Case:

Apollo ports in, and he doesn't port out. Mind Control presents the possibility that he shifts sides. Aberrants present the possibility of Precognition.

I think that it may take a few Authority-level novas backed by some teleporters, an electrokinetic, and abiokinetic (teleporters for transport, electrokinetics to find weaknesses quickly, and the biokinetic to provide cover for the pheromones), but the Coalition ark is going down!

Find weaknesses? Again, the place is Death Star big. Can you scan the moon and find a single rock? If not, then even finding a command station might be hard.

And we have the issue of whether Apollo is willing to die. I.e. he's in the middle of the ship. Converting matter to energy when he's close to it means he gets caught in the explosion.

[Finbar]

Maybe. Maybe not. Potential Problems:

1) I remember reading a piece of sf-war-fiction where all the aliens could teleport. At one point they tried to take out the human commander by teleporting into central command with guns and shooting him before he could react. The teleporters had great reflexes, practice, and the advantage of *total* suprise. None of them even got a shot off. Even caught totally flat footed, the security computer still reacted *MUCH* quicker than they did and shot them dead before they could even pull their triggers.

But...did the aliens have force fields? Force fields that can take a lot of damage.

2) Porting is a known power. Nukes are known. If the Arc were worried about the combo they haven't shown it.

Known to the abbies, not the Coalition. They're new to the concept of a living entity having that much power, and it may be interesting to see if they adapt to it. Also, bear in mind that the furies may be euthanized; it looked like there were some issues starting to form re: leadership. So it's possible that the alliance may break down before they hit Earth's solar system.

3) OK, fine. You port in... and you drop a nuke on the place. It's *BIG*. Moon sized big. The nuke might not do as much as we'd like to think.

Darn. Too bad I'm dropping a nova on them instead. And one that can take a good chunk, move, and take out another chunk...A teleporter with a nova that has a force field and can blow things up can be a nasty combo...

Worse Case:

Apollo ports in, and he doesn't port out. Mind Control presents the possibility that he shifts sides. Aberrants present the possibility of Precognition.

Precognition is the major threat; Mind Control not so much (it can be dealt with by other sources). Then again, they may try to create an alliance with Earth first...Nonetheless, bear in mind that both sides have precogs, and that could be an interesting fight in and of itself.

Find weaknesses? Again, the place is Death Star big. Can you scan the moon and find a single rock? If not, then even finding a command station might be hard.

Not scanning for a single rock; more like pulling up a schematic that gives basic details and can then zoom in on them. Note: Electrokinetic, not a clear. And there should be limited security due to the way that leaders run things, unless (and unlikely) that the abbies were allowed to mess with the main computer.

And we have the issue of whether Apollo is willing to die. I.e. he's in the middle of the ship. Converting matter to energy when he's close to it means he gets caught in the explosion.

But...I thought that aberrants were immune to their own powers...Which is what Apollo is doing; once he converts the material, it's just energy ::blush ...And bear in mind that Apollo and his fellow Edenites not only have an noblesse oblige going on, but could be drawn by the challenge. I mean, you think I'd pin the hopes of a planet on just ONE nova? Silly...

FR

[Alex Green]

But...I thought that aberrants were immune to their own powers...Which is what Apollo is doing; once he converts the material, it's just energy ::blush

A nova who can start fires is immune to his own fire. Assume he starts a fire in a building. Now he's not immune to the building falling on him or the fire in the building.

From Apollos' description... I really can't tell if he'd be immune to it or not.

Known to the abbies, not the Coalition.

The coalition knows about nukes up to and through fusion weapons. They also know about warp technology. They aren't scared of the combo...

...ah heck...

It might not matter. The Arc is going many times the speed of light. Can we even target something like that, and what has the range? Worse, if it's under warp, it's possible, maybe even implied that there are effects that interfear with other warps and the like.

[metaphysician]

Eh, I'd be entirely willing to buy that, if you got Apollo on your side, he could fry the thing and survive.

The problem is, you've also got the Colony on the other side. I tend to figure that however the details work, the two will probably end up cancelling out for the most part. Leaving the ultimate result as determined by what happens with everything else.

( easiest way to handle situations that have godlike beings: arrange it so the godlike beings stalemate, until the PCs do something to tip the scale ;-) )

[BlueNinja]

I think possibly the easiest way to stop the Ark is to figure out the area where it's going to be appearing in Warp, then arrange for a large number of, say, 1,000 kg rocks, travelling at about .5c, to be going through that area.

Voila! First strike goes to the humans.

[Sprocket]

Re: Using rocks accelerated to 0.5c-

::huh What's going to be accelerating those rocks to relativistic speeds? Human-allied novas with serious kinetic energy powers? Or do you think Bolade Atwan would have had both the luck to find a relativistic meteor swarm and the capability to warp them into a more useful position & trajectory?

Either way, I'm pretty sure that Trinity-era hardtech isn't up to that challenge.

[BlueNinja]

Re: Using rocks accelerated to 0.5c-

::huh What's going to be accelerating those rocks to relativistic speeds? Human-allied novas with serious kinetic energy powers? Or do you think Bolade Atwan would have had both the luck to find a relativistic meteor swarm and the capability to warp them into a more useful position & trajectory?

Either way, I'm pretty sure that Trinity-era hardtech isn't up to that challenge.

Um. Crap, I forgot that Psion warps drop the target without any relative motion. There goes that plan.

[Blue Thunder]

At the end of the Coalition encounter, the Coalition drone(s) that is accompanying the party on the ark breaks free while the characters are escaping. It stays behind. The books says that if a telepath scans him, he detects that the drone is going off to share the "freedom" he experienced (or somesuch) with the humans. That right there should be vital to success...if the drones are convinced to go against the Coalition, the Coalition would be in total chaos. The drones do all of the mundane tasks. Also, the Sasqs seem completely indifferent to the fact that they are a Coalition phyle. They'll assist humans out of curiosity. And they know the ship inside and out, and have the technological knowledge to be a great asset.

[metaphysician]

Re: Using rocks accelerated to 0.5c-

::huh What's going to be accelerating those rocks to relativistic speeds? Human-allied novas with serious kinetic energy powers? Or do you think Bolade Atwan would have had both the luck to find a relativistic meteor swarm and the capability to warp them into a more useful position & trajectory?

Either way, I'm pretty sure that Trinity-era hardtech isn't up to that challenge.

I could buy the novas pulling it off, but really, it'd be pointless. They could just blast the thing. Other than that, no, I don't see anyone tossing c-fractional missiles.

[Sprocket]

I could buy the novas pulling it off, but really, it'd be pointless. They could just blast the thing. Other than that, no, I don't see anyone tossing c-fractional missiles.

::shrug It's just a different way for a power (I statted that out as a Level 5 power once - see "Tau Discharge") to inflict damage. Apollo Milliken's "Radiant Conversion" power probably does a comparable amount of damage, and I don't see him as being a Q10 nova. So there's little reason why he would have any dots of Quantum Inferno.

As for the "inside help" from the drones & sasqs that Blue Thunder mentioned, I agree that they'll likely be vital for human success in the conflict. Problem is, I also think that the situation will be dire enough that humanity is going to need each & every advantage that can be grabbed hold of.

[metaphysician]

What I mean is, there's no particular point hauling out novas to do c-frac bombardment, because any nova capable of doing such could just shoot the thing. It'd be unneeded complexity.

[Sprocket]

And to top it off, we may have been arguing over nothing. According to "The Story To Come" from the Trinity Storytellers Guide, the Coalition Ark will be dealt with by the Upeo, who'll be teleporting lots of nukes onboard in specific locations. So much for the drones & sasqs, I guess. ::huh

[BlueNinja]

And to top it off, we may have been arguing over nothing. According to "The Story To Come" from the Trinity Storytellers Guide, the Coalition Ark will be dealt with by the Upeo, who'll be teleporting lots of nukes onboard in specific locations. So much for the drones & sasqs, I guess. ::huh

Since the Trinity Storytellers Guide is not canon material (though I hope it's very good material) I wouldn't say we've been arguing in vain.

As for setting up c-fractional missiles, if I remember my physics well, the best way to do that is set them up with rockets and slingshot them around the sun/Jupiter/Saturn to let the gravity give them even more acceleration. Then at a preset distance from the target area, you blow them up (preferably with pre-placed explosives on the inside) to turn a couple of big rocks into a couple of space-sized shotgun blasts. ::happy The big weakness with this is that I don't know if Earth would actually have enough time to set up an attack like this, since I thought the warning about the Coalition were more than a bit vague about when/where they were going to show up, and this kind of attack is one that would require weeks, possibly months, to arrange.

[metaphysician]

Since the Trinity Storytellers Guide is not canon material (though I hope it's very good material) I wouldn't say we've been arguing in vain.

As for setting up c-fractional missiles, if I remember my physics well, the best way to do that is set them up with rockets and slingshot them around the sun/Jupiter/Saturn to let the gravity give them even more acceleration. Then at a preset distance from the target area, you blow them up (preferably with pre-placed explosives on the inside) to turn a couple of big rocks into a couple of space-sized shotgun blasts. ::happy The big weakness with this is that I don't know if Earth would actually have enough time to set up an attack like this, since I thought the warning about the Coalition were more than a bit vague about when/where they were going to show up, and this kind of attack is one that would require weeks, possibly months, to arrange.

Sounds like a viable technique for c-fragging planets or other "stationary" targets, but as big as the Ark is, its not stationary.

[BlueNinja]

Sounds like a viable technique for c-fragging planets or other "stationary" targets, but as big as the Ark is, its not stationary.

Hence the need for knowing exactly when and where it is going to be. It might be able to travel, but I doubt it's highly maneuverable.

[Alex Green]

Hence the need for knowing exactly when and where it is going to be. It might be able to travel, but I doubt it's highly maneuverable.

Given the vectors involved, it doesn't have to be.

Light circles the earth about 7 times in one second. Both objects are much smaller than that, so you can't even be a tenth of a second off or you miss. It'd be much easier to hit a bullet with a bullet (and we are ignoring any type of dodge or orbital correction, and we are assuming exact knowledge).

An abby round is 3 seconds. Between the time Pax decides to fire his blast and the time it leaves his hand the ship is out of range.

The numbers are really scary. I think we need course adjusting missiles to make impact attacks to work.

[BlueNinja]

Given the vectors involved, it doesn't have to be.

Light circles the earth about 7 times in one second. Both objects are much smaller than that, so you can't even be a tenth of a second off or you miss. It'd be much easier to hit a bullet with a bullet (and we are ignoring any type of dodge or orbital correction, and we are assuming exact knowledge).

An abby round is 3 seconds. Between the time Pax decides to fire his blast and the time it leaves his hand the ship is out of range.

The numbers are really scary. I think we need course adjusting missiles to make impact attacks to work.

Or build a spherical mine field at about 1.5 AU that will hold itself in position.

I think, though, at that point Earth would be better off placing themselves under Eden rule. ::tongue

[Alex Green]

Or build a spherical mine field at about 1.5 AU that will hold itself in position.

1.5 AU => 150 million miles. Surface area of a sphere, 4PiR^2 => 1x10^18 square miles. Assuming we want one nuke for every square mile, and each nuke weighs a ton that's 1x10^18 nukes & ditto tons. We need fusion bombs because the Arc is big enough to shrug off a small nuke. Mass of the Earth, 6 x 10^21 metric tons.

On the other hand, the Arc probably does have access to speed of light rocks and hitting the Earth with one would be easy.

I think, though, at that point Earth would be better off placing themselves under Eden rule. ::tongue

Probably. I liked Greek world.

[metaphysician]

You could make a large mine field much more feasibly if you used bomb-pumped lasers. Then each mine can cover a much large area. Problem being, I don't think you could make mines powerful enough to be worth it against the Coalition, whether laser warhead or nuke. OTOH, if you could take a much smaller area, and seed it more heavily, you might be able to use it to at least take out smaller vessels, *if* you can lure them through the zone.

Re: Greek World, hey, if you like that, maybe I should post the setting summary document for my current campaign. . .

[Alex Green]

...if you could take a much smaller area, and seed it more heavily, you might be able to use it to at least take out smaller vessels, *if* you can lure them through the zone.

I strongly suspect 'smaller' becomes so small it isn't worth it... the resources needed to create and then maintain such a thing are staggering. And that's before we worry about whether or not the Arc has aberrants who can warp.

I think if the Arc makes it to the Earth really bad things happen, which means the fight needs to be taken to it. The teleport + nuke card is so (potentially) strong it *has* to be played... but if it fails the only back up is the palace rovolt plan.

[Finbar]

Probably. I liked Greek world.

1) TOGA! TOGA! TOGA! TOGA!

2) Oh, yeah; if we brought the Zep greks into it that would make it more fun, at least! Then again, the standard Coalition greeting against their Demeter rites: That's a competition that just scares me...

FR

[Sprocket]

Re: Ark size & teleporting nukes-

Depending on just how big the Ark is, teleporting aboard some nukes into strategic locations might merely cripple the thing before it gets anywhere near Earth, instead of blowing it & everything/everyone onboard to radioactive bits. If that's the case, the "palace revolt" gambit would dovetail nicely with it.

[Anon]

I think the nuke idea has a fairly good chance that it will take out the ark in one shot.

The trinity test bomb ended up being a fifteen kiloton explosion. For a fifteen kT warhead, the air blast radius of 4.6psi overpressure, which is sufficient to collapse most residential and industrial structures (and remember, the ark is probably mostly a hollow structure) is 1.8 kM. In today's world, we have tactical nukes that reach up to 1 megaton in yield, and our stratigic warheads are obviously far larger.

The air blast radius of a 1 mT warhead is 7.2 km.

The largest warhead ever detonated was the Tzar bomb, which was the half-scale testbed for a 100 mT bomb, and the air blast radius of a 50 mT warhead is 26.3 kM.

And thats mearly the air overpressure, this doesn't take into account the shockwave that will be transmitted through the surviving structure of the ark.

So one stratigic warhead teleported near the center of the ark should pretty much make the invasion a non-issue.

[metaphysician]

Correction: I don't think anything that has ever been called a tactical nuke is in the megaton range, IRL. Biggest nuke ever detonated was 50 megatons, with the Soviets claiming they had a functional 100 megaton design. I'd actually believe it, since the 50 megaton blast was essentially the same design scheme, just cut down in number of stages.

That said, precise physics or not, I'm entirely willing to buy that a moon-sized space ship is tough enough to take an internal detonation of even a megaton range nuke without being insta-vaped. Now, blowing up the power core, thats a different story. . .

[Anon]

1mT was the largest warhead for use in an operational theater, any thing larger was designated as a stratigic weapon. Remember, back during the cold war we Americans (and probably the Russians too) had no problems with the possibility of deploying nuclear weapons during a battle. We even had low kT ranged nukes that were designed to be fired out of long ranged artilliary pieces. Now if we still have them now that the cold war is over, I don't know, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make.

And that 50 mT bomb was the Tzar bomb I was talking about.

That said, precise physics or not, I'm entirely willing to buy that a moon-sized space ship is tough enough to take an internal detonation of even a megaton range nuke without being insta-vaped. Now, blowing up the power core, thats a different story. . .

If the ark is the size of the moon, then yeah, even a multi-megaton warhead would probably do squat unless it also hit a critical system. Do we have the dimensions of the ark? I was basing my extrapolation on the pictures presented in Trinity: Deception, the one with the ark parked by a Levithan. In that picture, with a Leviathan being about 3/4 of a mile, the ark only looks to be about several miles across. Thats why I said that a nuke would be able to take it out in one shot.

[Alistaire]

Based on my calculations earlier in the thread, I'd say that the Ark has to be at least 100 km, possibly much more, just to fit 800k people in it at an average city density. So a 50 mT warhead blasting 26 km radius would pretty much cripple the thing, except that that radius is based on an open-air blast, hitting a few 20th century buildings. The Ark is a couple centuries ahead of that in tech, and lasted through many more centuries of space travel and war (could we be the first nuke-lobbing civilization that it's come across?), so I'm guessing that it's structure is pretty sound. That plus a enclosed area (relative to an open-air city) would very much reduce the effective destructive area, IMO. And that's not accounting for any anti-nuke tech we don't know about; say for instance force-fields or rays that disrupt it's ability to fuse (I've seen it in other games).

I think the point is to have enough leeway that you can do with it what you want. Design an adventure that is fun but challenging for the characters, make a good story out of it, and let 'em go. I know mine's going to be multi-part, given all the seriousness they put into The Devil's Bargain adventure. The PCs will have to be part of a huge coordinated effort in an ongoing war with the Coalition. They've already "saved the Earth just in time" before. Now it's time for some serious trouble. ::devil