Aberrant: Dead Rising - Proposed House Rules

[Dawn OOC]

I've put together some rules to help us in DR. These rules may need adjusting, but I feel the need for them. We’ll adjust as necessary, but I think these are great to start.

Social Attacks and Defense

Mental Defense Value

This is modified from Exalted (props to Reven, who brought it to my attention). Here’s the way it works:

Iron Will no longer negates all social attacks with the expenditure of a Willpower. Those who wish to sell Iron Will back may do so, and we can negotiate what they can buy in exchange.

Instead, all characters gain a MDV. This is calculated thusly: Willpower + Quantum + pertinent ability, then divide by two. The pertinent ability depends on the power being used against you. MDV defends against social powers that WW didn’t see fit to provide a defense for. I hope this will stop some of the issues that we’ve been having with the use of social powers. Those influencing a group of normal NPCs will roll against a general MDV; supers get to check against their own MDV. An MDV can be modified by the following: Sexy merit, Lusty Flaw, Social Penalties from Taint and sexual preferences of the targeted character.

An example*

Jules is wicked pissed at Morgan, so she decides to seduce Ger to ‘show him’. Ger respects Fox way too much to just bang ‘his chick’, high App or not. He would like to decline, so his MDV applies. His Willpower is a 6 and his Quantum 0. The ST decides to let him use Rapport as the resistance skill. That is a two for the guy, so his calculations are: 6+0+2 = 8, divided by 2 is 4. However, Ger is definitely attracted to Jules, so his MDV drops to a 3. Jules will need 4 sux; she really wants to hurt Morgan so she burns a willpower point to give her an auto sux. She then rolls her Manipulation+ Seduction. She gets six sux, and Ger can’t resist the honey she offers. Had he been unattracted to women, he would have gotten a bonus to his MDV.

*stats made up to protect the hapless characters dragged into this example

Social Shield

It works just like Psychic Shield, but only adds difficulties to social attacks.

Reputation

as originally posted by Primal/Reven

Apocalyptic society is tightly knit, even incestuous, with news and gossip traveling at lightning speed as the world attempts to rebuild and re-connect. As a result, a character’s notable exploits that she doesn’t take pains to conceal will soon become well known by both her peers and the public at large, if not the region or continent as a whole. This reputation can be positive or negative (or even both at once), and it affects the way others view your character. In situations the Storyteller deems are appropriate, a character may add her Reputation rating to her dice pool when making social rolls. In situations where the reputation is a liability, the character subtracts an equal number of dice.

It is important for the player and the Storyteller to work together to create as much detail as possible for the character’s Reputation, as these details influence how and when the Background comes into play. If a character has a reputation for bedding every large breasted woman in the city, that reputation might help get him invited to important social gatherings, but it’s not going to help him during negotiations to buy a boat to get across Lake Michigan. An Enclave Leader with a reputation for offering fair treatment to foes who surrender without a fight will find it easier to negotiate the surrender of opposing forces, especially if she also has a reputation for merciless brutality against any who dare stand against her. A reputation need not necessarily be true. A coward might luck into becoming known as a war hero, while a shady swindler could have the reputation as the most honest merchant in a region or city.

Reputation is either positive or negative. Each positive dot in your area of influence in Reputation grants a +1 to social rolls; each negative a -1. The area of influence is listed, followed by the level of influence, then a plus or minus to indicated positive or negative. Reputation dots, positive or negative, can also be used to check if someone has heard of you outside your area of influence. Roll a number of dice equal to the highest reputation, good or bad. If the character checking gets even one success, they have heard of the person, but only as the highest reputation. Bond might have a Raiders 3+ (CST); that means that among other Raiders in the Central Time Zone, he can gain +3 dice when attempting social maneuvers with them, such as persuading them to give him a better deal. Also, when someone who isn’t a raider wants to check to see if he’s heard of Bond, he’d roll 3d10. With one success, they’d know that Bond is a raider of repute.

X You have yet to make a name for yourself.

* You’re well known in your set and those of a particular area of influence (raiders, merchants, etc) have started speaking of your deeds.

** Your name is bandied about in your part of the woods. Most within a statewide area have heard of you by now.

*** Everyone in the region knows well your legend. Your reputation has spread across an entire time zone.

**** Tales of your exploits have spread across the entire continent.

***** Your legend has preceded you even to the far corners of the world, there are none who have not heard your name.

Also, as an option, the Storyteller may with secretly assign reputation dots in areas a character has done some good, or raised some Cain. Thus limiting the background to just one place, but granting it for free. So a character may have Reputation (Carson City, Fear) 4 and Reputation (Las Vegas, Savior) 3.

The ratings are assigned and can only be adjusted as the storyteller sees fit, but they don’t affect the characters overall Reputation unless they happen to be in those areas. Reputation should not stack, but it can counter an assigned reputation, so in the Example above if a character had an overall negative Reputation of 4 and was in Las Vegas where he has a positive reputation of 3 he’d only suffer a 1 die penalty (4-3=1) to his social rolls to reflect the respect the people of Las Vegas have for that character. On the same note is his over reputation was positive and he went to Las Vegas he would not get 7 bonus dice, he'd get 4; his more favorable rating would win out.

Here are the currently assigned reputations. If you aren’t in the regions indicated, you likely haven’t heard of the person yet. This is for when you do travel to those areas, so that you can learn about their reputations.

The following Reputation ratings are a starting point; suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

PCs

Morgan Fox

-Air Force 2+ (Oklahoma/Texas)

-Enclave leaders 3+ (CST)

-Religious people 1- (Hayes Enclave)

Violet

-Pious people 3- (CST)

-non-pious men 4+ (USA)

-women 2- (Oklahoma/Texas)

-Medical 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

Dan Hawkins

-Marines 2+ (North Carolina/South Carolina)

-Marines 2+ (Oklahoma/Texas)

-Mechanics 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

-Survivors 1+ (Hayes Enclave)

Gabrielle

-Enclave leaders 3- (CST - as the leader of Hayes)

-Catholics 2+ (Oklahoma/Kansas)

Jasmine

-Enclave defenders 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

-Survivors 1+ (Hayes Enclave)

James Courier

-Married men 2- (Oklahoma/Texas)

-Enclave defenders 2+ (Oklahoma/Texas)

-Raider 2+ (Oklahoma/Texas)

Hana

-none

Father Abraham

-Catholics 3+ (MST)

Kristin Mackenzie

-none

Myfwany Shattuck

-Enclaves 3+ (CST)

-Medical personnel 3+ (CST)

-Pagans 2- (Kansas/Oklahoma)

Ira Sagebrush

-Thief 3- (MST) (for reasons the PC isn't aware of)

-Knight of Cassandra 2+ (Oklahoma/Colorado)

John Walker

-Enclave defenders 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

-Survivalists 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

-Boogeyman/Monster 2- (Oklahoma/Texas)

Bond, James Bond

-Raider 3+ (EST)

-Raider 3+ (CST)

-Married Men 3- (EST)

-Married Men 3- (CST)

-Women 3+ (EST)

-Women 3+ (CST)

Krys

-Enclave leaders 2+ (Arkansas/Missouri)

-Inventors 2+ (Arkansas/Missouri)

Jules

-Survivalists 1+ (Fox's Refuge - for setting Walker's classes up)

-Bitter people 1- (Fox's Refuge - seen as a golddigger because of her position in the enclave)

NPCs

Cassandra

-Oracle 3+ (MST)

-Crazy woman 1+ (Fox's Refuge)

Death

-Enclaves 3- (MST)

-Military 3- (MST)

-US Government 2- (Colorado/Nevada)

-Supers 3+ (MST)

Han

-Catholics 1+ (Hayes Enclave)

Fuse

-Military 2+ (Colorado/Nevada)

-US Government 1+ (Cheyenne Mountain)

Dick (Enclave leader, Beaver Lake)

-Enclave leaders 2+ (Arkansas/Oklahoma)

Feel free to discuss any of these potential house rules. It is likely that they will be used in some form, but since they'll be affecting your characters, I'd like your input.

[Courier]

I like Reputation a lot.

Social Attacks and Defense i.e. (MDV) I'm less sure about.

Giving an auto-resist-sux for every other point of willpower (etc) makes it somewhat harder to make social attacks (which might be the point).

I think the real adjusting factor (i.e. the part that makes it more workable) is moving MDV up or down depending on situational factors. On the whole I think it's a solution in search of a problem but I'm willing to live with it (it makes James somewhat braver).

[Dave ST]

One of the main problems in Aberrant is a lack of resistence to social enhancements. Some are easy, like Seductive and Seductive Looks which require a skill to be rolled or the enhancement ha sno effect.

Really though the brick wall is hit when most PCs can generate a 26 dice pool, 5 of those can be Mega-Dice and the most a character can expect to resist with it Willpower (and maybe 5 bonus dice from Mega-Manipulation). Honestly you may as well say 'you win' and push on with the game.

An MDV sets an automatic difficulty (which doesn't include any penalties for increased difficulties for what they're trying to pull-off, like convincing a man who hates gay men to make love to a man...) under the assumption that they're going to get at least one success per 2 dice.

It takes it a bit further by allowing people who have a background in the skills being used against them to recognize that someone is trying to hustle, seduce, bullshit, or con them. Pitting the contest solely against 'Willpower' was the poorest choice the system could have made, especially when a majority of cheese heads just take 'Iron Will' and ignore the effects anyway.

The MDV means that against skilled BSers you might actually fail, despite how many mega-enhancements you have on. It forces PCs to accept that they might fail even with insane dice pools, which can, does, and should happen. It's why I recommended it to Dawn.

I wonder if I write and submit enough rules for this game if I'll actually be allowed to play in it. Hmmm...

[Dawn OOC]

Reven listed all the reasons I wanted to do this. I've hated that Iron Will and willpower was about the only way you could really build up a defense against socials.

Keep in mind, before you assume that James will have a better chance by the numbers, remember that I will look back at characters' previous actions to determine any bonuses or penalities. Characters like Violet, James and Bond (as well as a few of the NPCS) will have their MDV dropped by 2 or more in certain situations.

Also, if you've been playing James 'safely' to keep from getting rolled by social monsters, I will look poorly on a sudden change in RP. I don't mind if he actually gets attacked and learns new limits, but OOCly protecting your character from some aspect of the game is poor sportsmanship. If James has been leery IC of things on his own, he'd better remain so until something happens to change that.

[Courier]

Quote:

Reven listed all the reasons I wanted to do this. I've hated that Iron Will and willpower was about the only way you could really build up a defense against socials.

Yes... ok. This works a lot better than I'd thought at first glance, especially the part about including abilities.

Quote:

Keep in mind, before you assume that James will have a better chance by the numbers, remember that I will look back at characters' previous actions to determine any bonuses or penalities. Characters like Violet, James and Bond (as well as a few of the NPCS) will have their MDV dropped by 2 or more in certain situations.

I said "braver", not "harder to roll".

Under the old system I was simply disallowing James a willpower roll most of the time (specifically against Violet) since I figured you need to *want* to resist before you can make one. Of course *now* he probably does.

Quote:

Also, if you've been playing James 'safely' to keep from getting rolled by social monsters...

"Safe" isn't a word that associates well with James so this is probably a more general statement.

Far as I can tell we've only got one social monster in the game (Violet) and considering how hard James got burned recently there will be some IC changes.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Courier

I said "braver", not "harder to roll".

Under the old system I was simply disallowing James a willpower roll most of the time (specifically against Violet) since I figured you need to *want* to resist before you can make one. Of course *now* he probably does.

And my point was that there is no IC reason for him to be 'braver'. Yes, he was just burned by V, but that'd make him more cautious of her, so as not to get rolled by her. There's no reason he should be less afraid of V just because I'm adding MDV to the game.

Originally Posted By: Courier

Far as I can tell we've only got one social monster in the game (Violet) and considering how hard James got burned recently there will be some IC changes.

It doesn't matter how many social monsters there are in the game (and there are more than V). I'd expect there to be some IC changes, but I think that you and I have very different thoughts about what is appropriate and what isn't.

[Courier]

In chat Carver pointed out that I was using an incorrect definition of "brave".

[Atomicweasel]

I like both the reputation and mental defense rules...but I also think the latter is not such a big deal. I've rarely seen the PCs target each other with social attacks...and we all seem careful about giving the m-stats their due.

[Dawn OOC]

The PCs maybe haven't, but the possibility exists now for that to happen... as well as PC/NPC conflict.

Aside from that, anyone see problems with the reputations I've listed above?

[Courier]

They look pretty good to me (especially Bonds)... with the exception of Jules having more influence over Bitter people at Fox's. Shouldn't that be a 1- ?

[Dawn OOC]

Yes, it should. Like I said, early in the morning when I did that.

[Amarant]

Why does Walker have a negative 3 in two time zones? I am very confused by that. Only Violet has a higher rating than a 3 in anything, and I mean, it's Walker. What's he done to earn a 3 in two timezones?

He lost a fight with the RUS that, to my knowledge, no one outside of the Refuge has heard about. And then he took out a small RUS outpost, but again - to my knowledge - not many people have heard about that either. Unless the scientists he rescued are no longer at the Refuge, and have spread out to other enclaves? I suppose that would account for it...

[Fox]

Quick question.

When I made Bond, there was no Reputation stat, so I took Influence to represent his rep. Can I reassign those dots or perhaps have them taken into account in the reputation scores?

[Courier]

What's he done to earn a 3 in two timezones?

Some of this is judging you by your actions, some isn't. I don't think V has been to California yet but her Rep precedes her and/or will be instantly created the moment anyone sees her.

[Jasmine Gentian]

These look fine, although would it be possible for Jasmine and Dan to have a +1 amongst some or all of Gabrielle's followers for staying and helping defend their refuge against a dangerous attack? (If the once wasn't enough to earn it, that's fine - I just wasn't sure how much it takes it takes to have earned a certain reputation, if what they've done at this point is kind of negated by the earlier situation, or whatever. Just a query, really.)

[Fox]

Jas should have CST Rep +1 (Bond Girl)

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Why does Walker have a negative 3 in two time zones? I am very confused by that. Only Violet has a higher rating than a 3 in anything, and I mean, it's Walker. What's he done to earn a 3 in two timezones?

Part of what I based those on were how much people would talk about others. For example, stories of the 'spider-man' would spread further than 'that crazy guy who thinks he's James Bond'. One (Bond) would get a casual mention in a conversation; the other (spider-man)would get told as a horror story (complete with giant webs for the unwary and eggs laid in brains) around the night's fire. Bond's reputation is spreading from his actions; Walker's and Violet's from their appearances.

Also remember that a 3 represents the radius that your story has spread. It's not a 3 in a timezone; a 3 is the timezone and then I indicate which one. If someone has a 5, which is world-wide (not likely) then I wouldn't put any regional note because the world is the breadth of their recognition. The reason Walker's in 2 is because I recalled you mentioning that he had taken up with some folks in New Mexico briefly. If I'm misremembering that, I'll gladly take out the MST repuation. But word about the spider-man is spreading across the CST.

Originally Posted By: Bond

Quick question.

When I made Bond, there was no Reputation stat, so I took Influence to represent his rep. Can I reassign those dots or perhaps have them taken into account in the reputation scores?

Yes, both are options, and you and anyone else like this can talk with me.

Originally Posted By: Jasmine Gentian

These look fine, although would it be possible for Jasmine and Dan to have a +1 amongst some or all of Gabrielle's followers for staying and helping defend their refuge against a dangerous attack?

Good point. This is why I've asked for opinions.

Originally Posted By: Bond

Jas should have CST Rep +1 (Bond Girl)

Haha, no. First, as mentioned above, the number I use indicates the spread of the reputation, with the region listed afterwards indicating which region. And Jas hasn't been seen with Bond in other parts of the region yet. But Jas could certainly have a Bond Girl 1+ (Fox's Refuge), with it rising as the two of you are seen more places.

[Amarant]

Originally Posted By: Courier

What's he done to earn a 3 in two timezones?

Some of this is judging you by your actions, some isn't. I don't think V has been to California yet but her Rep precedes her and/or will be instantly created the moment anyone sees her.

What is there to precede him? Unless the scientists, or some of the PCs, have been blathering on to anyone who will listen within the Refuge, and some of those folks have since left and traveled to other regions of the country, how does anyone know that there's a reputation to precede him?

And even if that is the case, why is he then a 'boogeyman' and not a hero of superhuman stature? Sure, he's creepy in person but honestly, so is Violet. The only actual stories that anyone could really tell about him (assuming they have been, and that those stories have actually managed to travel any significant distance) is that he fought to protect an enclave that was actively working on a cure for the Z-virus and that he managed to single-handedly wipe out a RUS outpost afterwards. How does this make him a 'boogeyman' or 'monster'?

ICly, the only thing Walker hass done is look kind of creepy, not talk much, and defend enclaves full of innocent people. It's all you folks with the positive Rep modifiers that are off executing people in broad daylight (though to be clear, I'm not criticizing - Walker would've done almost the same thing at Paradise as was done by the other PCs had he been there).

Honestly, I don't think he should have much of a reputation outside of the Refuge at all, positive or negative. And if he is going to have one, then why is it a full-blown 3 (which seems like it's pretty damned high to me, unless I'm misunderstanding something), and why is it a negative, like he's some kind of monster that runs around eating newborn children or something?

I mean, if the RUS actually knew about him, then I could see how he might have a massively negative rep amongst them, but unless I didn't follow events correctly, the only info the RUS command has on him is some vague report of a four-armed mutant. They didn't even know his name at that point. And that's the last the RUS ever heard of him.

Now, I don't want anyone to think that I'm going off on a rant here, or that I'm upset over this, because I most definitely am not. I'm just questioning the logic behind those numbers, and explaining my logic behind those questions. Dawn may very well have a very good, well-thought-out reason for why she gave Walker those reps that I just haven't thought of yet, but since I can't see it yet, I'm questioning it.

Other than Walker's reps, though, I don't really see a problem with any of them.

EDIT: Dawn ninja'd me, but my points, and questions, still remain. So I'm leaving the post as-is.

[z016]

Mostly, I would think that this is the case of some bit of reputation based off of stories spreading about what happened with Walker's original refuge (both from RUS soldiers talking and traders/travellers through the Refuge hearing a bit) mixing with the fear and general paranoia of the setting creating a story with little to do with reality.

As you pointed out, Walker is creepy. He looks weird, doesn't talk much, and is still a relative outsider to most of the Refuge. People talk. Talk spreads. It doesn't have to be true. In a world full of zombies, one more monster story isn't that unlikely. Just interesting. And a four-armed, black-eyed, silent monster person is interesting as well as frightening.

*shrugs* Just my view on it. Honestly, I'd've thought Gabrielle might have more reputation, positive and negative, because of her own obvious mutation. People are fairly shallow most of the time, and four arms, cartoonishly large breasts, and huge wings are more likely to create and spread stories than being able to fly or lift cars or leap like superman just because people can always see how inhuman Walker, Violet, and Gabrielle are.

[Amarant]

Originally Posted By: Gabrielle

Mostly, I would think that this is the case of some bit of reputation based off of stories spreading about what happened with Walker's original refuge (both from RUS soldiers talking and traders/travellers through the Refuge hearing a bit) mixing with the fear and general paranoia of the setting creating a story with little to do with reality.

As you pointed out, Walker is creepy. He looks weird, doesn't talk much, and is still a relative outsider to most of the Refuge. People talk. Talk spreads. It doesn't have to be true. In a world full of zombies, one more monster story isn't that unlikely. Just interesting. And a four-armed, black-eyed, silent monster person is interesting as well as frightening.

Right, see, I'm not arguing that Walker would have a reputation, nor am I arguing that at least some of it should be negative. I'm arguing the scale that it seems to be operating on.

Based off of what I'm seeing, Walker's reputation is as extensive as Bond's (even though it applies to fewer specific categories), Fox's, or Myfwany's reputations. These are people who have been actively involved over a broad area. And only Bond has as much of a reputation over as many timezones.

Based off of what I'm seeing, Walker is more famous than Morgan Fox, who runs Fox's Refuge (and seriously, how is it not called the 'Foxhole'? How in the world has the Refuge dodged that bullet? ), and Dr. Shattuck, who used to travel a state-sized circuit while making her rounds as a doctor, and who can heal people with a touch. How did this happen?

Now, let me reiterate, because I've noticed with debates like these, people tend to focus on the wrong facts and/or misinterpret what the other person's problem is. I do not have a problem with Walker having a reputation. I do not have a problem with his reputation being negative. I am not angling for a positive, rather than negative reputation in some kind of manipulative, roundabout way. I am wondering how in the world a guy like Walker, weird-looking or not, who keeps mostly to himself, and who has not really left much of a trail pointing to his past actions, has wound up being so amazingly famous over such a broad area. That is what does not make sense to me, and that is what I'm debating.

[z016]

Hmn...yeah, that's just something you'd have to get from Carver. She may have NPC's spreading your reputation, which is 'off camera' for us lowly players.

I know for me, I've had that experience, on a smaller scale. Apparently nearly everyone in my high school of 2,000 people knew who I was and fair amount about my life (or so they thought). I found this out about half-way through my Junior year. On my own, I couldn't name more than maybe a dozen faculty and students at the school (observant, aren't I?), nor did I really care about student social life at the school. I tried to ignore as many people there as possible because most of them annoyed the hell out of me. That and most of them only spoke to me when they had a problem they couldn't solve on their own and didn't want to involve any of the adults in their life. Which is funny because apparently my reputation had nothing to do with being a problem solver and more to do with having sex with my boyfriend in various improbable locations around the school (not true....that school was way too cold most of the time to have sex in), dating multiple people (semi-true, though no one ever go the pairings right and usually thought I was cheating on my boyfriend instead of in a poly relationship), being a satanist/pagan/goth/whatever was the buzz word group of the week (again, sort of true some of the time, but rarely when that was the rumor), and I was told at one point that a fair amount of people at the school thought I was working for the administration or one or another law enforcement groups (I have no idea where that came from....the administration barely knew who I was, save for being slightly intimidated by my mother at one point, and I've never had anything to do with law enforcement of any kind).

The point to that ramble down memory lane is that it doesn't necessarily matter what Walker has or hasn't done to make a reputation for himself. People might have made a reputation for him and spread it around, just because he's so apparently different from them. Stories get bigger the farther and longer they spread.

Also, while Fox and Myf are doing good in the world and affecting the lives of many people, the fact that they are public figures and that what they do is generally positive means that people will think and talk about them less. It's human nature to focus on what is different, scary, and mysterious far more than what is known, safe, and positive.

And I'm not trying to argue with you at all; Carver's got the final word on any of this, I'm just trying to debate the ideas and questions being tossed out in order to stretch the ideas of the reputation system and see where it bends, holds, or breaks. I didn't think you were trying to angle for something more positive for your character. You've had great questions and concerns. I'm just attempting to answer them as best as I can and see what other people think as well.

[Atomicweasel]

This doesn't really involve me at all...but in the interests of conrtibuting to the conversation (and being a busybody), I'd like to respond to some of Walker's great points.

Sometimes the myth of a man is all out of proportion with what he does or what he's done. Some stories captivate human imagination, and they become legends...whether deservedly or not. Paul Revere is an American hero...because he did what exactly? He rode a horse and delivered one message? As it happens he was a worthless drunk, but he's been immortalized into American folklore.

Walker seems like the kind of character that would have this kind of polarizing, larger than life effect on people. Tales are told of the spiderman, these tales get told differently each time, more is added on (he eats babies!) and on until he becomes a boogeyman. He doesn't have to have earned his reputation, necessarily. He just inspires this kind of mythology.

[SalmonMax]

I agree with Gabby and the Weez (coming this Spring on ABC! They fight crime!). In particular, the presence of obvious superhuman, inhuman traits will tend to really exaggerate that storytelling effect, IMO. That can include people who LOOK normal, but routinely flaunt their superhuman abilities in obvious ways around lots of people.

People who are lower key, more normal seeming, will probably have reputations closer to their deeds (Fox and Myf are good examples of that).

[Amarant]

Hmmm. Well, I can't say I agree with those points. I haven't seen any evidence, ICly, that Walker has much of a reputation. I've seen evidence that he has a reputation, but not that he has much of one. Honestly, the idea that he should have a high reputation seems meta-gamey to me (For instance, why does he have a rep as a 'spider-man'? There is nothing IC to support this notion - he has six limbs, not eight, and pretty much no one (alive) has seen his powers in use), and I think that's my biggest problem with it. OOCly, people have some vague notion of what he's capable of, and have read the fics where he's done these fairly dramatic things, and are reacting to that - not to what people have seen or heard about him doing ICly.

However, it's obvious that no one else agrees with this, so I guess I'll back off and let the issue drop.

[Courier]

There's another possibility. Fox's has a RUS spy.

[SalmonMax]

If I see a guy with six arms (and two legs) I'm going to think "spider man." I won't stop to count limbs.

And I dunno what he's done off the Refuge, but he's been visible around the Refuge, I believe. I recall he tests the sentries, right? I guess those sentries then bitch about 'spiderman' showing them up to other people. Word gets round to the traders, who take the word out to other places.

Over a few months, lots of people have heard of the 'spiderman' at Fox's place. They have no REAL concept of who Walker is, or what he does...they just heard rumors of a guy there who has a crapload of arms and likes to sneak up on people.

[Amarant]

Originally Posted By: SalmonMax

If I see a guy with six arms (and two legs) I'm going to think "spider man." I won't stop to count limbs.

He doesn't have six arms.

Quote:

And I dunno what he's done off the Refuge, but he's been visible around the Refuge, I believe. I recall he tests the sentries, right? I guess those sentries then bitch about 'spiderman' showing them up to other people. Word gets round to the traders, who take the word out to other places.

Fair enough. Still doesn't seem enough to warrant a reputation that stretches across 50% of the US.

Quote:

Over a few months, lots of people have heard of the 'spiderman' at Fox's place. They have no REAL concept of who Walker is, or what he does...they just heard rumors of a guy there who has a crapload of arms and likes to sneak up on people.

He hasn't been there for a few months...

[z016]

Yeah, Walker only has two extra arms. I think that was his point about not really being a 'spider' since they have 8 limbs, not 6, but most people aren't going to be that particular (or that observant).

Walker's basically been doing guard duty since he changed, right? So coming from Fox's or where else he's been, he's been known and visible. *shrugs* Again, Carver was asking for feedback so if you really think no one's noticed him or starting talking about the spider-man or boogey-man, okay. You're letting her know. Cool.

My only two arguments about it are:

1) People talk about the weird/scary things they see. Walker definitely qualifies.

2) People may not only be talking about Walker....there could be other similarly mutated people/creatures out there that Walker may be getting the short shrift on reputation because of. Just because it looks like a duck and quacks like duck doesn't mean that it isn't the duck's half-cousin twelve times removed through marriage. Just like Gabrielle could get a bad or good reputation around the country if another nova with wings starts travelling around, doin' stuff. It's not Gabrielle, but it is a winged person or especially a winged woman out making waves. Gabrielle and this other nova are going to have to deal with the fact that they influence reactions about the other person simply because in a world without mass media and relying on word-of-mouth information, descriptions aren't going to be objective or probably incredibly detailed beyond general hair/eye/skin color and wings (or in Walker's case, extra limbs).

[Amarant]

Fox can punch holes in space, runs what is rumored to be one of the most secure and successful enclaves in the Central US, and commands a small army of super-powered beings.

Dr. Shattuck can control the weather and heal people by touching them, up to and including the Z-plague itself (which is e-fucking-normous, BTW).

James bounces around like gravity has no hold on him, can summon a flaming sword from thin air, and (up until recently) had multiple live-in girlfriends.

Gabrielle runs an enclave of former religious nuts who purposefully tried to infect other enclaves. She has wings, and can also heal people with a touch.

James Bond has traveled through most of the United States at this point (which is no mean feat in a post-zombie-apocalypse world), he's a massively successful trader throughout that entire area, and he looks like James Bond!!

Walker has a couple of extra limbs, he freaks people out when they get up close to him, he tends to come and go without people noticing, and he has a mysterious and apparently violent past.

Now, you guys tell me: does Walker really stand out that much in that lineup? Because his rep is better than everyone in that list, excepting James Bond, with whom it is equivalent.

That's all I'm getting at, folks.

[SalmonMax]

In the theater of public opinion, I would say so.

Myf doesn't use her powers very often at all. When she does, they're not very splashy or obvious (in the sense of lightshows or claps of thunder). Sure, the patients appreciate it...and I'm sure part of her reputation IS due to her healing powers (though she cannot heal Z-plague...Gabrielle was an anomaly, as much due to her eruption as a nova as from any agency on Myf's part). Fox's portal powers are brand spanking new...

Walker's -creepy-. You make that abundantly clear in every single post. He talks creepy. He moves creepy. That kind of thing just plays well in stories. It garners attention.

I think it's fair for you to argue how much of a rep he has, and over what kind of area, there's nothing wrong with that. Carver noted in her post that those figures were just estimates, and she was open to player input.

But I do think the 'legend' of Walker the Spiderdude is one that might have more wings than you give it credit for.

[z016]

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Fox can punch holes in space, runs what is rumored to be one of the most secure and successful enclaves in the Central US, and commands a small army of super-powered beings.

The holes thing is very new, and gets his reputation from running the enclave. He's well-known exactly for the things you've mentioned, but it does also hinder the spread of his reputation as people tend to stick close to refuge for just the reasons you've said.

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Dr. Shattuck can control the weather and heal people by touching them, up to and including the Z-plague itself (which is e-fucking-normous, BTW).

Uh.....what?!? When did that happen? She can heal, but I don't ever remember her actually curing someone of the z-plague. Honestly, it doesn't sound like an ability Carver would give a PC, especially at this stage of the game. Now, she's got Cassandra spouting prophecy about her and giving her a book, but that's not quite the same.

If Myf could do that and pretty much anyone got wind of it, she'd become the most important person in the world, and the most hunted as well.

Also, just for curiosity, other than the bug-fest at Beaver Lake, has Myf used her abilities other than healing and QA and taken credit for it? Oh, the growing plants thing, I know that one. Any others?

Originally Posted By: John Walker

James bounces around like gravity has no hold on him, can summon a flaming sword from thin air, and (up until recently) had multiple live-in girlfriends.

And he has a commensurate reputation in those places that he's used his powers. He's also not really up on networking more than face-to-face, and people mention the womanizing a hell of lot more than the powers, most of the time. Womanizing, not being a superpower nor probably all that uncommon in the DR world, isn't worth nearly the gossip travel as having extra limbs. That's something that people can see without ever having to be told and will probably stick with them a lot longer as a conversational peice....or nightmare.

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Gabrielle runs an enclave of former religious nuts who purposefully tried to infect other enclaves. She has wings, and can also heal people with a touch.

Yup, and she has reputation for that. However, most of the enclaves visited by Elijah's followers are dead now, and beyond that Gabrielle has only travelled between Hayes and Fox's Refuge since the wings sprouted and she learned she could heal.

Originally Posted By: John Walker

James Bond has traveled through most of the United States at this point (which is no mean feat in a post-zombie-apocalypse world), he's a massively successful trader throughout that entire area, and he looks like James Bond!!

I actually don't know how much Bond has travelled in the past six months. I know he didn't start out running around until after his girlfriend died. *shrugs* Yeah, I think he should have a pretty high reputation as a Raider/Trader and as a womanizer. And as crazy Daniel Craig.

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Walker has a couple of extra limbs, he freaks people out when they get up close to him, he tends to come and go without people noticing, and he has a mysterious and apparently violent past.

Now, you guys tell me: does Walker really stand out that much in that lineup? Because his rep is better than everyone in that list, excepting James Bond, with whom it is equivalent.

I think that there is a lot of gossip-travel for a guy with four arms that is silent and moves like an insect. Especially one whose main duties at this point are to catch guards unaware and poke holes in the security of, as you put it, 'one of the most secure enclaves in the country'. It's something that sticks in people's minds and give them nightmares.

Look at it this way: reputation is about how others react to you. I, at least, would remember/be freaked out by Walker way longer than I'd ever remember James. And longer than that I'd probably remember Gabrielle or Violet more than the others just because the others look so normal. The others are people until they choose to do something freaky and inhuman. Walker, Gabrielle, and Violet are always inhuman freaks.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: John Walker

Dr. Shattuck can control the weather and heal people by touching them...

As I recall she stopped traveling and settled in at Fox's before she started using her powers.

Quote:

James bounces around like gravity has no hold on him, can summon a flaming sword from thin air, and (up until recently) had multiple live-in girlfriends.

Working hard on removing the word 'recently' thank you very much. The sword thing used to be a lot less impressive because with it 'bleeding' juice he wasn't willing to use it much. And I'd love to have a bigger rep. I'm even willing to exchange one or more of his 'contact' dots for it.

Quote:

James Bond has traveled through most of the United States at this point (which is no mean feat in a post-zombie-apocalypse world), he's a massively successful trader throughout that entire area, and he looks like James Bond!!

Bond should, and does, have a big rep. It's a good story and it's easy to repeat.

Quote:

Walker has a couple of extra limbs, he freaks people out when they get up close to him, he tends to come and go without people noticing, and he has a mysterious and apparently violent past.

Not just 'up close'. Walker doesn't move like a human being, and he doesn't act like it. James is only impressive when he's lifting stuff or jumping. Walker is impressive all the time. From 50 yards away, someone looking at him thinks he's a statue, just because when he's standing still he doesn't move. Pure and simple that's inhuman. It's the sort of thing a zombie might do.

Quote:

Now, you guys tell me: does Walker really stand out that much in that lineup? Because his rep is better than everyone in that list, excepting James Bond, with whom it is equivalent.

Yeah, point... on the other hand, there's a fair degree of chance to all this.

[Amarant]

Ok, well at this point I'm just going to throw my hands up and toss in the towel.

I honestly don't understand how Walker got such a huge reputation, but whatever. I was only arguing it because it didn't (and doesn't) make any sense to me ICly. Yes, Walker is creepy, and yes, that creepiness is memorable. But I simply do not see him as being more of a standout 'story' than any of a half a dozen other PCs and NPCs that have been running around the DR world for the past few months. I think that people are getting more hung up on his creepiness factor and OOC knowledge of what he's done and can do than is really appropriate (Is he rrreeeeeallllyyyyy creepy? Sure! Is that a good reason for people from Corpus Christi, TX to Bismark, ND to know who he is? I honestly don't think so.)

But if I'm stuck with it then I'm stuck with it. There are worse things that could happen to my character. So yeah, fine, he's a known name and face throughout roughly one half of the country now...

EDIT: Oh yeah, Gabrielle: What I'm remembering is the Beavers and Bovines chapter, where Myf was called upon to heal Gabrielle. I realize that, OOCly, Gabrielle erupted and that's why she's still alive. But how do you think that looked ICly?

[Fox]

Quote:

I actually don't know how much Bond has travelled in the past six months. I know he didn't start out running around until after his girlfriend died. *shrugs* Yeah, I think he should have a pretty high reputation as a Raider/Trader and as a womanizer. And as crazy Daniel Craig.

Bond's fiancee died shortly after Z-day, by one or two days. Bond fell asleep with the virus himself and woke up as, well, Bond. So yes, he's travelled a LOT, met a LOT of people and made a big name for himself.

If he is a crazy Daniel Craig, then it must be true about some crazy actors doing all their own stunts.

[z016]

I think it would be frickin hilarious if the real Daniel Craig survived and is out in some enclave on the West Coast. They'd have to meet at some point!

EDIT for Walker:

I'd totally forgotten the Myf thing with Gabrielle. Yeah....hmn....I wonder what people do think of that.

Also, it isn't Walker as a person that has the "Boogeyman" reputation, at least from my reading of it. It's that he's physically a scary, creepy guy and word has gotten around about a 'Spiderman/Boogeyman' super. People don't know his name, necessarily, but when they spot the four-armed, creepy-moving man, they're going to peg any of a dozen monster stories they've heard on the poor guy. Some of them might have something to do with things Walker has done or been involved in, but just as many might be bullshit campfire stories or actions of other monstrous supers.

[Mr Fox]

I'd put my money on there being an RUS spy in the Refuge one that reported Walker's part in what he did at the other enclaves, and the RUS has put out an APB on him so to speak. I just saying that there are ways that Dawn could be spreading his reputation. The RUS spreading stories like that about Walker could be their way of isolating him and marking him as a target.

Not saying that is true, just that Dawn might have something up her sleeve.

But short of something like that, I'd tend to agree that Walker would be more like a -2 in CST and nothing in EST.

[SalmonMax]

There were only two witnesses to Gabrielle's ressurrection. Caleb, and the nurse at Beaver Dam. The nurse probably isn't talking much, given that she won't want anyone to think she was at all in collusion with us.

Oh, and Jon. But I expect he's locked up in his bunker by now...

[Amarant]

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

But short of something like that, I'd tend to agree that Walker would be more like a -2 in CST and nothing in EST.

That is exactly my thinking. Perhaps there is some very inept spy in the Refuge who's been running his mouth off to anyone who will listen, and perhaps the RUS does know about him, and is quietly keeping an eye out for him (if they're doing it noisily, then they themselves are a bit inept), but short of that, I just can't understand where he's getting a reputation in two entire Time Zones from.

[Ira Sagebrush]

If my reputation isn't a goddamn 5 Baby, heads are gonna fly.

[Dawn OOC]

OK... let's try this again.

The number DOES NOT mean anything other than how far your legend has spread.

You don't have a level 2 in CST.

The area listed after the number means the region that your reputation is centered in.

The number has nothing to do with HOW people percieve you; it's HOW FAR they percieve you.

I'm going to dumb this down below, just for clarity, because people are getting mixed up:

- You are not spoken of anywhere. You suck.

1 You are spoken of in one place. Examples: Hayes Enclave, Fox's Refuge, Cheyenne Mountain.

2 You are talked about in a few states. Examples: Texas and Oklahoma; N. Dakota, S. Dakota and Wyoming; Arkansas, Illinois, Tennessesse and Missouri.

3 You are talked about in a time zone. Examples: CST, EST, MST (and I should add within a given country; given that we're in the US, assume US). Yes, this are wide and awkward regions. I can cut them down further, if you guys wish. I went for easy.

4 You are talked about across a country. Examples: United States, Canada and Mexico.

5 You are talked about world-wide. 'Nough said.

Now, before we proceed, does anyone have any questions about what I've posted above?

Walker: I can drop it to a two and just have one, covering Oklahoma and Texas. In fact, I had decided to do this at work today, but was at work and couldn't post anything.