Aberrant: 2011 - Primal?

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

I'm asking for an explanation. Your character has a truly stupid amount of Backgrounds, and while I understand that he clearly passed muster in the eyes of the Mods, I think that kind of backstory deserves a little mention. One doesn't acquire that much notoriety and wealth without attracted mass attention, so I'd like to know exactly what we, as other players, know about this guy. His Backgrounds don't make any sense to me (for example, how does a self-professed murderous psychopath get Influence in the Teragen AND the Aberrants?), nor does the fact that after a maximum of six months of time erupted, he would have developed such a fearsome reputation or gained so much Backing in various nova organizations. It seems that despite being a hormonally-imbalanced killer, he somehow manages to hold great influence, wealth, and seniority in novas-only organizations, and to put it plainly, I'd like to understand how the hell you rationalize that.

Also, I hate your character. Primal might get a pass if he was likable or if it seemed as though he contributed something other than being a smug douchebag; so far, I'm not seeing it. So I'm asking for an explanation. The fact that I'm the first person to bother makes me wonder if I'm not just the only person not in on the joke.

Primal · April 4, 2007

As Hina put it: "I do not have to justify my nova point expenditures to the players in any way, shape or form."

He is a prime example of how messed up the character creation process is. I paid the points, I got the dots.

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

That's a cop-out, bullshit excuse. You're stretching the limits of verisimilitude, and I expect some answers. Hina at least provided a backstory and attempted to explain away her purchase; in your case, we're expected to accept your batshit loco backstory without a word of explanation or even giving us, as players, an idea of what we'd know about your character IC, except that he's a super-major-badass-wrong-nigga-ta-fuck-with-god-of-war. Pull the other one, I'm not buying it.

Primal · April 4, 2007

I haven't posted his background yet. Give me time, shit I have personal life. Between work and posting in Blackburn I haven't had time.

I posted just a sheet so peopel could refer to something.

Pushy pushy...

Kittie · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

You're stretching the limits of verisimilitude, and I expect some answers.

An excellent point. We should start threads for other offenders, next, if you can manage to find any. /sarcasm.

Dawn OOC · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Seph

...nor does the fact that after a maximum of six months of time erupted...

Just a note: by the charter, the maximum is two months.

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

Okay, you're right! TWO! TWO MONTHS!! CRAZY BULLSHIT!!

Look, I see what you're doing. It's unnecessary. And it makes the idea of interacting with your character a chore. How can anybody be expected to take him as seriously as everyone else seems to? He plays like an overblown egomaniac, not someone you'd actual respect or even fear. How do we take him seriously?

Originally Posted By: Kittie

An excellent point. We should start threads for other offenders, next, if you can manage to find any. /sarcasm.

Oh, I see what you did, there.

This is a game, but it's also a shared environment. A little stretching of suspension of disbelief is to be expected; Primal's concept very much seems to rip it, tear it, sodomize it, and ejaculate tar on the remains. All I wanted was explanation, which the player claims he hasn't had time to provide yet. But if his player expects to be treated seriously, maybe he should have waited to start posting until the rest of us could look at him as something other than the Ultimax of Backgrounds.

Kittie · April 4, 2007

To be fair, the "Ultimax of Abilities and Attributes" title was already taken in 2009, and he didn't get his own thread.

Ravenshire · April 4, 2007

Well, I didn't create my character to show how broken the mechanics could be, to insult other players, or to ruin other people's enjoyment of a fiction ... or even to max out a mega-attribute. I created a character that I thought would be fun to play and that I thought other people would have fun interacting with. The guy's powers are skills. Everything baselines can do, so can he and at near-perfect levels of ability. Yet, he can't fly, bounce bullets off his chest, raise legions of followers at a glance, or turn into shadow. In many ways, its as much about what he doesn't have. He doesn't have powers.

I certainly never created the character back in November, so I could beat people over the head with him. I've never tried to insult other posters for their perceived lack of playing ability. I've only wanted to have fun with him without ruining the enjoyment of others.

I know you don't like the character, but I ask that you give him a chance. Put a little faith in me as a player to exhibit both his strengths and his flaws in play. I try to give everyone else that courtesy.

White Light · April 4, 2007

I enjoy the character well enough, and don't really see a problem with it.

But than again, I like Catalyst's character, so in many eyes I just don't get the right to an opinion.

Primal · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Ravenshire

... or even to max out a mega-attribute.

This thread is about Primal, if you have a problem with Gabe start a new thread.

Quote:

The guy's powers are skills.

A mjority of Primals powers are backgrounds. What's wrong with that? So it's okay for you to do it with skills and not for me to do it with Backgrounds?

They are not my rules, I'm just the victim here.

Quote:

I know you don't like the character, but I ask that you give him a chance. Put a little faith in me as a player to exhibit both his strengths and his flaws in play.

Again... you ask that we give you this coutesy, but so far it doesn't seem to apply to Primal.

Huh.

Kittie · April 4, 2007

Ravenshire:

I don't get into long, drawn-out character critiques anymore. Your ability to play the character, or lack thereof, is not going to change my opinion, because that opinion is based on the manner and reasoning of his specific eruption. That's not going to improve, worsen, or vary in any way, and so neither will my perception. In my opinion, he is insulting, and he does show how broken the mechanics are. To be fair, there are other characters about whom I feel the same way, only one of whom I ignore completely. By all means, enjoy your character, but at least extend others the same courtesies you request of them.

White Light · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Primal

Originally Posted By: Ravenshire

I know you don't like the character, but I ask that you give him a chance. Put a little faith in me as a player to exhibit both his strengths and his flaws in play.

As opposed to

Originally Posted By: Ravenshire

Put a little faith in me as a player to exhibit both his strengths and his flaws in play. I try to give everyone else that courtesy.

Interesting how you left out that last part, Primal. He was simply defending himself against Kitten, or whatever, her name's is attack on a thread where he was not the subject. I've not seen him verbally act out against you, so why are you attacking him? i can see how some of the stuff that he said you might take as an insult, but it seemed to me more like he was defending himself against the argument that was being placed against you, and not endorsing it.

White Light · April 4, 2007

Oh, and by the way. I am so amused that you compared spontaneously getting better at abilities and attributes to backgrounds.

Abilities and attributes - Based on the nova himself. I can see how edgy like "Learning 20 new languages" can be, but I suppose in a realm where others can shoot lightning bolts out of their ass and spontaneously gain leopard skin, it is possible.

Backgrounds - Not. I mean, I erupt, so I automatically get 10,000,000 because everyone in this awesome organization saw me erupt and decided I was a great man to follow, so they made me their leader. And that only explains two of the backgrounds. That is, by the way, with no socials above a 2.

I'm not standing against the character. Yet. I will wait for a background to be published. But I am against relating spontaneous backgrounds to spontaneous abilities and attributes.

Johnny Long Pig · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

How can anybody be expected to take him as seriously as everyone else seems to? He plays like an overblown egomaniac, not someone you'd actual respect or even fear. How do we take him seriously?

**coughcough**Machina!**coughcough**

Hehehe.

Wow. We truly are gamers. Can't get four of us in a room without a fight breaking out. It's like we're the Hell's Angels, just a lot less intimidating.

Mods approved him, what else ya gonna do except ignore his ass? I'm just thankful Alptraum is still hiding behind his computer in Germany and Long Pig is in Havana pumping up the Soma trade. Cuz it looks like someone made a character killer just to prove a point. And hey, what can I say? I did the same with Ultimax. People didn't have too much of a problem with him because in short order I made him interesting. Give Primal the same chance. And if he fails then rip his tits off.

White Light · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Johnny Long Pig

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

How can anybody be expected to take him as seriously as everyone else seems to? He plays like an overblown egomaniac, not someone you'd actual respect or even fear. How do we take him seriously?

**coughcough**Machina!**coughcough**

Hehehe.

Hahaha. Amusing.

Josh Brickman · April 4, 2007

RE: Backgrounds

It is possible, barely, to get this sort of thing in 2 months.

Example: Upon eruption you hook up with NV and get a body count. Or even Divis (or Math guy) singles you out for praise. As far as I can see, Primal is well thought of in the Teragen for living up to his "natural selection" theme (which is also a theme that runs strongly through parts of the Teragen in general and Divis specifically).

On the other hand he's more a character like Totentanz than anyone else. He's respected, he's admired... he's feared, he's hated. As long as he wins and continues to be on top, people will kiss his ass, but if Pax tears his head off he won't be mourned.

RE: Primal

I'm more concerned with him being headed for a train wreck by bringing an Agg attack into a bar fight... but that's OOC worrying about an IC pickel. I'm made my concerns public in chat on this subject so IMHO I've done what I can. :Shrug:

Kittie · April 4, 2007

Okay. First, I'm going to ignore the insult you made in passing. Lina.

Second, I didn't "attack" Ravenshire. I pointed out, in response to Seph's comment, that a similar tactic has already been used. In my opinion what Ravenshire did is on the same level as what Primal's done. I don't buy the "wisdom of the cosmos suddenly poured into my brain" schtick. Unless you're hooked into an OpNet terminal when you erupt and actual information (which is what many of those dots represent) is downloaded straight into your brain, I can't justify it. How do you master martial arts forms, become well-versed in the history of the Baroque movement, and learn to fluently speak every language known to man? Eruptions, in my opinion, can only shape what's already there. Not everyone agrees with this, obviously, and the mods approved the character. I understand that none of the characters here, whether or not I personally like the concept, have any responsibility beyond what's stated explicitly in the Charter. I deal.

In my opinion, and Josh illustrated this beautifully, it's very possible to to gain these backgrounds in a short period of time- there's nothing stating explicitly that they haven't (in-character) been gained since his eruption, or even before.

Give the guy a break. Despite all of the ridiculous stunts people have pulled here, I've yet to see all of them given their own thread for people to tear their character concept apart before they even get a chance to do more than joke about it.

Dawn OOC · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Lina Doritha

I'm not standing against the character. Yet. I will wait for a background to be published. But I am against relating spontaneous backgrounds to spontaneous abilities and attributes.

Originally Posted By: Johnny Long Pig

Cuz it looks like someone made a character killer just to prove a point. And hey, what can I say? I did the same with Ultimax. People didn't have too much of a problem with him because in short order I made him interesting. Give Primal the same chance. And if he fails then rip his tits off.

Agreed. I'm waiting for the background on this character before I make the final judgement. I'm curious myself. Primal gave a quick overview in chat, but I think he was joking.

I guess that 2009 has its own Waki now.

Primal · April 4, 2007

I think everyone has made their points perfectly clear. Considering the large amounts of threats and complaints I've been getting via PMs Primal is pretty much dead at the Blackburn anyway.

So no worries. Primal will be destroyed since his 62 backgrounds which can be purchased with nova points, are clearly a violation of some unspoken rule I wasn't aware of.

Since Gabriel's Mega-Apearance of 5 is a problem as well, since Ravenshire continues to bring that up as a thorn in his side. He will be destroyed as well.

As PW said, I've done this High School thing once already. I do not have to justify why I legally spent nova points. He does not exceed 30 and was approved.

A background story is just that, it's justification for why the dots say what they do.

Josh Brickman · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Primal

So no worries. Primal will be destroyed since his 62 backgrounds which can be purchased with nova points, are clearly a violation of some unspoken rule I wasn't aware of.

IMHO background isn't an issue, nor do I see the difference between Primal buying them and Josh buying 5 dots in resources during eruption. Josh's eruption story makes him homeless and broke, but in a short time he adopts an extravagent lifestyle, simply because the character is built around this (i.e. having Biz, earning insane amounts of money and not bothering to spend it).

Assuming Primal survives the Blackburn I assume we'd quickly learn that he's a central character in the Teragen. There are a number of ways to do this, the character simply looks akward because we haven't seen how just yet.

Similarly, T2M core members have roughly the same number of background dots and they fit the character because they are T2M core members. However if one were to read them without knowing the backstory they'd look odd.

OOC I have no problems with the character design. He's legal and that's it. I think Primal is playing with matches and gasoline, but that's an OOC eval of IC actions, and he's perfectly free to do that as well.

Originally Posted By: Primal

Since Gabriel's Mega-Apearance of 5 is a problem as well... He will be destroyed as well.

IC I strongly agree and I think every man there would thank you.

Dawn OOC · April 4, 2007

I'm getting blunt, unfortunately. Also, aside from what has been clearly stated as fact, this post is only my opinion. Take or leave it - I don't care.

Originally Posted By: Primal

I think everyone has made their points perfectly clear. Considering the large amounts of threats and complaints I've been getting via PMs Primal is pretty much dead at the Blackburn anyway.

So no worries. Primal will be destroyed since his 62 backgrounds which can be purchased with nova points, are clearly a violation of some unspoken rule I wasn't aware of.

No, it didn't violate any rules. It does stretch believability, however. All we've asked for is a background story for these points, which is the standard response to stuff that makes us go, "Huh?" Instead, all we've gotten is whining and a BS story in chat which made it clear to me that Primal isn't a PC, he's a lesson. He's supposed to teach us that unless Reven approves our character concept, it's trash.

All it's teaching me is that Reven gets pissy when he doesn't get his way.

Originally Posted By: Primal

Since Gabriel's Mega-Apearance of 5 is a problem as well, since Ravenshire continues to bring that up as a thorn in his side. He will be destroyed as well.

When I heard that Gabe had M-App 5 and why, I thought, "Bullshit!" in a soft sing-song voice. But I didn't bitch about it; I took it at face value and gave the character a chance. And I'm glad I did. Gabe is one of the better characters here; strongly defined and yet gently flawed enough to be interesting. I looked forward to fictions with him, even when my characters were getting screwed.

I'm prepared to give Primal the same chance. Have I told you not to play him? No, all I've done is wait to see what he's like, and say I wanted to see a background. There have been characters here that have not justified their backgrounds to my satisfaction, but have I called for their heads? Nope. I've just dealt with it and let it go.

The only reason I've been hesitant about Primal is that he, according to you in chat, was going to kill another PC. Given who the player was, I assume it's because you hate that player. Primal had never met the character or interacted with them, so I'm not sure if you were going to force the development of an IC reason for it in the fiction, or just go meta-gamer and do it for OOC reasons. Either way, the motivation is questionable. There is a place here for characters like Primal, Waki and other nasty mo-fos. But that place is not to settle OOC grudges.

Originally Posted By: Primal

As PW said, I've done this High School thing once already. I do not have to justify why I legally spent nova points. He does not exceed 30 and was approved.

Agreed. Completely.

Originally Posted By: Primal

A background story is just that, it's justification for why the dots say what they do.

Yes, and we're still waiting for that background story.

Reven, I love you to death. But you really are a pain in the ass sometimes.

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

Originally Posted By: Johnny Long Pig

**coughcough**Machina!**coughcough**

Dude, if anybody fears or respects Machina, I am doing something drastically wrong.

Originally Posted By: Kittie

I don't buy the "wisdom of the cosmos suddenly poured into my brain" schtick.

I don't particularly buy it, either, but - without saying anything about Ravenshire one way or the other - there's a canonical precedent for this. It's happened.

Originally Posted By: Kittie

n my opinion, and Josh illustrated this beautifully, it's very possible to to gain these backgrounds in a short period of time- there's nothing stating explicitly that they haven't (in-character) been gained since his eruption, or even before.

I think the example Josh provided was clunky at best. It doesn't explain how a psychopath gets Influence in the Teragen and the Aberrants. I'll grant that his utterly fantastic wealth could be explained away pre-eruption, but the point of this was never to issue a 'Character Veto'. I just wanted an explanation, which, at first glance, Primal said he wasn't willing to supply. That doesn't exactly garner a lot of support.

Originally Posted By: Primal

So no worries. Primal will be destroyed since his 62 backgrounds which can be purchased with nova points, are clearly a violation of some unspoken rule I wasn't aware of.

Since Gabriel's Mega-Apearance of 5 is a problem as well, since Ravenshire continues to bring that up as a thorn in his side. He will be destroyed as well.

Oh, sack up, Nancy. Nobody wants Gabe dead, and speaking for myself, all I ever asked about Primal was something in the way of explanation for his crazy number of Backgrounds. If other people hate him, well, so the fuck what? Lots of people downright hate some of my characters. Suck it up, dude. I have faith in your ability to pull this shit off, so fucking do it.

Originally Posted By: Dawn

It does stretch believability, however. All we've asked for is a background story for these points, which is the standard response to stuff that makes us go, "Huh?" Instead, all we've gotten is whining and a BS story in chat which made it clear to me that Primal isn't a PC, he's a lesson.

Word.

Vivi OOC · April 4, 2007

I was more or less planning on biting my tongue after Primal posted, but when I read your post I couldn't help myself.

Yes. In part, he's a lesson. All of the things people are bitching about, all of the things people hate about him already, before he's even been played sufficiently to know anything about the player's motives, or even the character's in-game are things that you inspired. The lame justifications, the transparent excuses... Everything came from someone else here. The only difference is that no one lumped them all together before in one neat, broken little package.

It bothers me -a lot- to see people, including you, Dawn, getting away with character-creation murder, metagaming, and any number of other shared-world faux pas, and yet who gets a thread dedicated solely to bashing his character? It doesn't seem remotely fair to me.

People whine IC and OOC about Gabe... And yet his sole purpose, the only reason the character was created, was to socialize with other people, to be a nice guy, to set up locations for parties, give characters someone to interact with, etc. All people can seem to do is make catty remarks about his appearance, ranging from the merely snide to the downright insulting. Primal? Heh. Before he even has a chance to present the character properly, or write a serious history (I know some of you will be disappointed, but the conglomerate background was, in fact, a joke), people are already raising hell and calling it a "personal attack" when their own shortcomings are challenged. Could he have presented it differently? Yeah, he could have... But unless someone was offended and pointed fingers, it would be hard to point out why Rev's frustration spurred him to create the character, wouldn't it?

Yes, I'm pissed. I'm damned-near furious, in fact, and I'm tired of watching this happen over and over while the genuine offenders get a pass because people are afraid of hurting their feelings. So, when or if he finally decides he's had enough and he's taking his Hot Wheels home, the N! news network will be full of magnificent and potentially ignominious character deaths- mine included.

Note, please, that these are my feelings on the matter, so kindly direct your flames accordingly. I just can't be tactful at this point, and for that fact (though not for the content) I apologize.

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

*raises hand* I like Gabe.

Catalyst · April 4, 2007

From what I know, I have nothing wrong with the dots on primal's sheet. I have to ask why and how he got them, but I am willing to give him time to explain himself. this by no means means I like him, but I do not make the standards of what characters can or can't do. So Primal, you want to get rid of your characters? Go for it. I will not try to stop you.

Gabe is kind of cool in his own way. I would not play him, and I do not think I would interact with him much but that is largely do to ic reasons.

Vivi OOC · April 4, 2007

You tend to be generally excluded from my bitchfests, largely because you like Millay and Flogging Molly, but (at least in some small way) also because you cover your ass pretty well, and I can't think of anything I'd call you out on in public. You're okay.

...You're an ass, but you're okay.

Bellator · April 4, 2007

I personally ooc LIKE Gabe. I love the idea... wish I had the skill to pull it off.

In character, Bell is severely jealous of Gabe, and thus would take any opportunity to see him taken down a notch, but wouldn't want to see him genuinely hurt.

Primal I don't know well enough to say wether or not I like him, but I'm willing to give him a shot.

Robert J. Lambert · April 4, 2007

Hmm, in shame of repeating what Seph said.

I like Gabe, the character is interesting and I never got fazed by the idea that he had Mega-App 5, not much different from somebody who erupts with Mega-Wits 5 or Mega-Stamina 5 right?

On Primal, I like the char, I was weirded out by the amount of backgrounds he has, but hey everyone does stupid things with the char creation system anyway. So I decided to wait for the background and to see how Primal was going to be played, just giving him a chance to explain itself out.

What rubs me wrong about Primal is not his dots or his way of being played, its his reason to exist.

Rev basically admited (maybe under preasure from being question from many sides, but admited on the end) that he had created Primal to:

- Rub his backgrounds on Carver's face because of the Hine thing.

- Rub his backgrounds on Jager's face because of the Ravenshire business.

- Increase the danger in the Blackburn Brawl from "you might get hit and hevily injuried" to "He has Agg damage and hormonal imbalance, so hill eviscerate everyone he can lay his hands on"

The character mechanics or concept dosen't rub me wrong, the reasons (be them all or just part of them) he was thrown together is what rubs me wrong.

Seph OOC · April 4, 2007

By the by, Primal will have something to do very soon with someone who isn't afraid of Agg. Not to say he can defend against it; he's just not afraid.

z-Kara · April 4, 2007