Aberrant RPG - Spoiled Rotten!

[SkyLion]

I think Ive gotten spoiled. Pretty much all of my current PCs are built on more. If you add up eveything bought with XP in both Trans-D and Prometheans it ends up costing between 60-to 70 NPs. My Baalt character was made with 65. On NPrime I am playing a PC originally submitted for BNs Trans-D game. He translated to 65. I had to *heavily* strip him down until only the most bare essentials of his theme, in most cases reducing him from mid powe (2-3 dots) to low (1 dot). Even then I had trouble executing the concept for less than 45.

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This just came to my attention when i decide to pencil out the character sheets for two cool concpts I came up with recently (you know, for fun!) After adding up my wishlist it came out to 70-80 NPs for both. Again I heavily stripped them to the basics and got to between 50-60 for them.

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Id like to emphasize something here to answer the response I recieved from Shade Sentinel when I told him. His response was that I was going for a "too finished" character...too powerful with little or no range to "grow."

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But in each of these cases I started them at mid range. That means 2-3 dots for primary mega atts and powers, 1 dot for secondaies. After stripping them I was left with 50 NPs worth of single dot mega-Atts and Powers. Its not that i aiming for two high dot levels. Its just that executing the concepts required a diverse range of things to simulate. I tried making 30 NP versions just to see if I could and it was even worse. A collection of 1-dot items that only made *half* the concept work....

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Oh, and even in the stripped-down versions I had to go at least medium taint, just for aberrations sake (What can i say? I like Aberrant Eyes and Permanent Bodymorphs! ::happy )

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I wanted to just post up here and get some feedback. Now that I have made so many "movers and shakers" level beginning PCs its hard to imagine going back to "average paragons" again. With one exception: If I ever get to play in a Teen Tommorow game, I made a cool character to be a leader type/bad boy combo. He only has one dot in a bunch of Mega atts across the board, 3 dots in Armor, a grip of maxed skills, and backgrounds (Backing, Influence, Etc.) he was built with 30 NPs and is the only single PC I have *ever* made with taint 0 (which was part of the exercise)...

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Any thoughts? Criticisms? Sympathies? Just be gentle...I enjoy the character just as much so please don't call me a munchkin. Power gamer, yes (Every game I play has powers or magic) but Muchkin, No.

[phoenix]

::huh Yeah, go ahead and post him.

[SkyLion]

Im asking for feedback genericaly. I dont like sharing my private concepts and their architecture outside of playing in a game. Im just over-protective of my children.

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if people would like to talk privately about them though, I am willing to do so on a case-by-case basis with a few. this topic was meant for more general feedback or thoughts on the problem itself, rather than my specific PCs (whom I already know how much it costs to do the bare minimum)

[SkyLion]

Ive been discussing my ideas in private with Phoenix a bit and he pointed out that while my ideas arent uber powerful, my difficulty lie in the breadth of abilities I need to execute the concept to my satisfaction.

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Anyone else ever had this problem?

[Alex Green]

Build a powerful character.... oops, that's 80 NP?

OK, different exercise, build a powerful character for 30 NP.

Some concepts simply can NOT be done well for 30 NP. At that point, and I’ve come to that conclusion many times, I accept that and move one. I.e. I give up and start over from scratch.

The place to begin is always “what are the character generation rules”? If your dream character is 80 NP, and you only have 30 NP and can’t spend bonus on Quantum, then your dream is too high, so you need a different one.

The next place to go is acknowledge that the first character out of the box probably isn’t going to work. I’ve had lots of games where even the 3rd character has to be tossed out because he doesn’t work. This is especially true when the character generation rules are different from normal.

[metaphysician]

Wrt Aberrations, ask the GM if he allows the Aberrations as Flaws rule. That way you can get the flavor effects without screwing yourself with excess Taint. Sure, bonus points can't give you kewl powerz. . . but you can buy merits with them, as well as efficiently purchase willpower, backgrounds, and quantum.

[BcAugust]

First thought is, maybe you just like higher powered games. Which isn't a problem(I tend to just over starting myself, though I'd really enjoy playing in the "street level" category sometime), it's just a different taste.

The other is the possibility that you're paying for more then you really need to for the concept. I see this a lot from players who, for instance, always buy mega Int, Taint Resistance and Eiditic Memory for every character, or who put something in every skill/stat just in case.

I do have to say, taking that much Taint is the sort of thing that makes me, as an ST, nervous. Flaws would likely be encouraged above that, especially if I'm already giving you 50 nps already. Too much exposure to min maxers that my first reaction is "Why are you stretching the points that much?"

[Alex Green]

Taint shouldn't be considered "free", it should be considered a "resource".

With enough exp, I can buy the Mega-Stats or even Quantum that I didn't buy earlier.

With enough exp, I can NOT get rid of Taint... and it's still going to prevent me from getting laid. ::devil

[phoenix]

What Alex said. On the flip side, sometimes in the Aberrant setting it's very appropriate to play a character who is gradually losing his humanity. Ironically, the confusion, desperation and fear that process can inspire are all very human emotions, and thus make fun and stirring RPing and reading.

[BcAugust]

Taint shouldn't be considered "free", it should be considered a "resource".

With enough exp, I can buy the Mega-Stats or even Quantum that I didn't buy earlier.

With enough exp, I can NOT get rid of Taint... and it's still going to prevent me from getting laid. ::devil

Note the min max experience comment. *shrugs* Admittedly, it would totally depend on what kind of campaign I was running. Taint wouldn't be that out of place for a Utopia campaign, required for an Teragen campaign, and completely out of place for a light Teen Tomorrow game

What Alex said. On the flip side, sometimes in the Aberrant setting it's very appropriate to play a character who is gradually losing his humanity. Ironically, the confusion, desperation and fear that process can inspire are all very human emotions, and thus make fun and stirring RPing and reading.

True... but I like that to happen "on screen". Completely personal preference, but while I get the point of buying powers tainted, I rarely like the backgrounds for why. For a game that focuses on losing humanity, I'd much, much rather go with ways to gain high Taint in play, rather then at character gen. For something like Skylion's preference for Eyes, I'd rather go with flaws.

[metaphysician]

Or alternatively, you could always RP the "aberrations" without taking either Taint or Flaws. ::wink

[BcAugust]

Or alternatively, you could always RP the "aberrations" without taking either Taint or Flaws. ::wink

Well, yes. Then again, Artemis would be way over the flaw limit anyway.

[SkyLion]

The Pcs I had in mind were far from min-maxed. More like min-mined...

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Its more along the lines of what Alex was saying...I get all high concept with stuff. Like it just tends to take several related abilities to get the effect I want.

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I talekd with Cottus about it, and he seemed to agree. 30 NPs is best for gritty batman level characters. My preference tends to be more X-men (though I can and have gone the gritty route and loved it...just not first choice) which is minimum 45 NP to 50. I was actually able to go back and make some sacrifices (things which I could admit were fine to be learned and bought over time with xp). and got both ideas down to 50.

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I found the resulting PCs were well rounded...which is I think the real difficulty with 30 NPs. Consider, for the higher concepts, Quantum minimum 4 untainted thats 5 NP. I have a WP 5 minimum for every PC I play unless there is some reason I want them to be weak-minded, so thats 2 NP. Add in another 5 to be split among some extar backgrounds, skills and attribute points (again going for well rounded) and thats 12 NP, nearly half the starting 30 NPs. Add in a Prime Mega Attribute at 3 dots, say Dex theres 9 more and secondary atts Stamina and Strength for another 6 points. Now there is nothing left for powers. Or only 1 of each Mega - Att and instead 2 dots in armor and q-bolt...

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...and thats it! Thats all one could buy untainted. And I will argue that taint IS a resource...thats why the rules give you a point break for it...though I really do just like alien features....and I am willing to go the flaw route for cool things like that, unless I want Dormancy to be able to make them normal again.

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But I digress. The point is, that I realize that I simply get bored with only 1 or 2 powers or abilities to choose from...like just having armor and q-bolt. I like versatility. Notice my main PCs here have shapeshifting and Q-Imprint...letting me have different abilities for different situations.

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I realize that this makes me not a "pure" roleplayer (the example I gave phoenix is that I wouldn't say play in a strict civil war game unless there were Elves and Magic added in!) and I dont aspire to be one. ::shrug::

[BcAugust]

Strange, the X-men are the last group I'd consider well rounded. After all, even the most well rounded still mainly has one ability, and a bit of training. And I know what you mean about Shapeshifting being fun, my current Aberrant character has that.

I guess I consider what you consider minimums shockingly high. Then again, it seems that you just like higher power games, which is cool.

[Alex Green]

I found the resulting PCs were well rounded...which is I think the real difficulty with 30 NPs. Consider, for the higher concepts, Quantum minimum 4 untainted thats 5 NP. I have a WP 5 minimum for every PC I play unless there is some reason I want them to be weak-minded, so thats 2 NP. Add in another 5 to be split among some extar backgrounds, skills and attribute points (again going for well rounded) and thats 12 NP, nearly half the starting 30 NPs. Add in a Prime Mega Attribute at 3 dots, say Dex theres 9 more and secondary atts Stamina and Strength for another 6 points. Now there is nothing left for powers.

You're core problem is you're buying your trivial stuff first. Willpower of 5? Why? What part of your concept does this fill? For that matter, why did you get a Q of 4? Fill up your list with "I'd like" stuff and of course you have nothing left.

You said you wanted your character well rounded, and that's what you got. And yes, he's so well rounded he can't do anything else.

(more later).

[BlueNinja]

Cut out the mega-attributes.

Seriously. When I need to build a 30NP character, I think first of their baseline existance, and how they erupted. From that, I figure what powers they absolutely have to have (no more than 3, ever) and how/whether their baseline stats would have been boosted. Then I'll buy no more than one Mega-attribute (usually at 2-3 dots) and buy the rest with XP.

From a min-max standpoint as well - if you're not going to need to have a mega-attribute higher than two dots in the character's immediate future, buy it with XP and not NP. Look up flaws that would fit the character's personality and use those bonus points to kick up your Willpower or Abilities. I don't tend to Taint my way into min-max heaven, only because I find the drawbacks are rarely worth it, and the tabletop game that introduced me to Aberrant made is very easy to rack up Taint during gameplay. The group average (spread across all characters) was about 2 temporary taint per weekly game.

[SkyLion]

Strange, the X-men are the last group I'd consider well rounded.

I meant X-Men power level...

And consider Jean Grey..TK, Telepathy, Flight, etc...Most all of them have either secondary abilities or necessary mega atts.

You're core problem is you're buying your trivial stuff first. Willpower of 5? Why? What part of your concept does this fill? For that matter, why did you get a Q of 4? Fill up your list with "I'd like" stuff and of course you have nothing left.

WP 5...In every other WW game 5 is the default. I consider WP 3 to be painfully low and will settle for nothing less than 5 (I prefer strong willed PCs)

As for Q4 its necessary for many level 3 powers. If I didnt need a high quantum I wouldnt have paid for it...that simple...I paid for it cuz its necessary...

So its not I like, its need...

As for Mega attributes...cutting them out cant be done since most of my ideas need enhancements...what would a wolverine be like without bloodhound? Or collosus without adaptability (he doesnt breathe while metal) etc. etc..

Again...your comments frustrate me cuz I am not min-maxing here...just trying to make ideas work.

SO I dont think my minimums are high....again, I can barely fit in what I'd want at the MINIMUM levels...being 1 dot in nearly every case...

[metaphysician]

I don't know, you really should be able to do decent beginning X-Men pastiches on 30 NP. I mean, Wolverine? Couple dots of Mega Stamina with Regen, 1 dot each Dex, Per, Wits, and a couple dots Claws. Total cost, about 20 NP. Leaves plenty of room for mundane atts and skills and WP.

Colossus? If your doing early Colossus, all you need is Mega Str 3, Mega Stamina 3, Armor 3 or so. Thats about 27 points, leaving a bit of room still. And you could probably cut a dot of Mega Stamina easily.

Cyclops? Even 5 dots of Quantum Bolt only cost 15, leaving you plenty of room for mundane stuff.

Jean Grey? If your talking Early Jean, give her 1 dot each in TK, force field, flight, and quantum bolt. Should leave room for some supportive mega-atts.

[BlueNinja]

As for Mega attributes...cutting them out cant be done since most of my ideas need enhancements...what would a wolverine be like without bloodhound? Or collosus without adaptability (he doesnt breathe while metal) etc. etc..

Is your Wolverine going to need Bloodhound in the first game session or two? If not, then cut it out for the starting build, and make it one of the first things you buy with XP.

As an example, when I built Michal Wesson, he started with Telekinesis 2, Holo 2 (extra: Sound), Mega-Int 2 (Eiditic Memory), and a bunch of attribute and ability boosts. In the first four game sessions of XP, I bought Mega-Wits 1 (Artistic Genius), Mega-Manipulation 1 (Conflicting Accounts), and Computer Prodigy. All three of those were central to the core concept of the character, but none of them were buy-able without really boosting his Taint score, so I put them off a little bit, and role-played him as if he already had them.

[Alex Green]

As for Q4 its necessary for many level 3 powers. If I didnt need a high quantum I wouldnt have paid for it...that simple...I paid for it cuz its necessary... SO I dont think my minimums are high....again, I can barely fit in what I'd want at the MINIMUM levels...being 1 dot in nearly every case...

What, *exactly* do you need that requires Q4?

Beast:

1 M-Int

1 M-Dex

1 M-Str

10 nova points in misc stats (attr, abilities, willpower, backgrounds)

Marvel Girl

1 TK

1 Telepathy

1 FF

10 nova points in misc stats, including an app=5

Wolvering (the theme, not the PC)

1 Claws+AP

1 Mega-Stamina (Regen)

1 Mega-Strength

High willpower bought through bonus points

High Init bought through bonus points

1 Mega-Perc (Bloodhound)

10 nova points in misc stats

Various flaws.

...and at this point we've spent 22 nova points so you have 8 more to toss in.

Iceman

Q5

1 Immobilize

1 Bodymorph: Ice

10 nova points in misc stats

1 EM: Ice (Movement)

He's at 31 nova points so either we get a point of taint or we only go with 9N in misc.

Storm:

Q4

5 Weather Manip

(This is 30 nova points but a taint of 4 would drop it to 22, enough for 8N into misc... although she also started with a phobia and some other social problems so maybe she had +3 quantum in her bonus points).

[SkyLion]

Okay...y'all are seriously missing my point here...Or Im not being clear.

I am NOT...NOT talking about building x-men "pastiches"...Yes they *can* be done with 30 NPs as the "early versions" (which Im not really a fan of BTW...)

The Q4 I needed for my particular PC is for Magnetic Mastery btw Alex

And to BN...YES damnit! Wolverine needs his bloodhound...from the very beginning! Its an integral part of his concept...(BTW...how is Nippon treating you?) So yeah...

The problem I have is that in order to tone things down to the 30 NP limit I end up sacrificing my concept...my vision if you will.. I *can* do it, but it leaves me feeling unsatisfied....they come out as either not simulating what I wanted (only half the concept gets done) OR they do, but they are so weak at it that Id rather play something else. I like for my PCs to be "very good" (not necessarily Best, though thats nice...) at at least one thing that they do, while having 2-3 secondary abilities that they are "fair" at.

But as y'all have pointed out, thats just me...

[Alex Green]

So basically you want to build a generalist who is really good in his speciality. ::sly

[SkyLion]

So basically you want to build a generalist who is really good in his speciality. ::sly

Not even a generalist....just a solidly executed theme. A generalist is decent to fair at everything...IU usually pick 1 strong area and 2, maybe three secondaries. For example, Estebans forte is Mega-Stamina. Secondary is Shapeshifting while third is Perception. But I play up his perception quite a bit IC and use the Shapeshift to get lots of enhancements. Skillwsie hes awesome at combat, medice and awareness. Thats far from being a generalist...

[metaphysician]

I think the problem is, some concepts just don't work well at 30 NP. Just like some concepts break down at too many NP.

You really have to design characters around the limits of the campaign. If the campaign has a hard and fast setup of, say, 30 NP, you just have to accept alot of concepts won't work.

Me, I'd suggest that the GM set general guidelines, and then see what concepts the players come up with and how they work, and then negotiate the exact NP level and such.

[Alex Green]

As soon as you say "Mega-Stat 3", then you've stated that you have a speciality in that stat, not a sub-theme, but a theme. Your sub-themes come from the supporting stats, and you have no right to complain that you can't buy a Q4 min power on top of the 5 mega-stat dots that you've already purchased.

Let's move back to Q4 and our Magnetic Mastery nova.

10 nova points of misc stats.

5 for Q4.

5 for MM.

That's Taint 0, and 10 nova points left over. With taint 3, you could have 4 dots in MM... and we actually had a PC do that and become an elite. With his first 12 exp he got a Forcefield and M-Stam: Regen. Alternatively with those last 10 nova points you could get 60 dots in abilities or 3 mega-stats and a dot in psi-shield.

Put a different way, with those last 10 nova points you decide whether you're going to be a specialist or a generalist.

And this is without min-maxing. -6 in flaws and you could have a 5th dot of MM.

I think the problem is, some concepts just don't work well at 30 NP.

Also true.

[BlueNinja]

Not even a generalist....just a solidly executed theme. A generalist is decent to fair at everything...IU usually pick 1 strong area and 2, maybe three secondaries.

Do the strong area. Ignore the rest. If you have enough points to fill them in, good! Otherwise, you will just have to wait. 30NP novas are supposed to be on the weaker end of the scale to give you somewhere to start from.

[SkyLion]

Yanno....I wasnt really looking for advice...I already know I cant do what I want (usually) with 30 NPs. I was actuallly hoping to get a lil more sympathy...oh well.

Alex...I agree Mega stat 3 is a theme, but I never said that actually...not sure where you came up with that....

Oh, and the MM person is way more (concept wise) than just Magnetic Mastery...if you like I would discuss the finer points with you via PM...

BN...I agree with Metaphysicaian...I started this thread to discuss those concepts/themes which *cannot* be done with any degree of faithfulness with 30 points but can be done with 50. Like I said, I do have a few 30 point Nova concepts that are workable, so its not that I dont know how to do it...I appreciate the advice everyone, really but thats not what I was asking about.

I guess I got my answer though...all depends on the campaign. In the right campaign Id be perfectly happy with 30, but I wouldnt get to bust out my favorite character ideas...

[NFVD]

I'm about to run my first-ever Aberrant session today, allow me to give you my 2 cents on this.

30 Nova points might be too much, not too little

Honestly, the first character I did to test the system ended up having 5-10 Nova points to spare. Also I was amazed with the versatility of most powers, like when I created a Cyberkinetic thinking he could use it simply to interact with computers and then discovered he can control a whole bloody network from a pc he doesn't even need to see. Or the fact that Anima and Mastery powers allows use techniques you dont even have, that's a hell of a lot of power for one dot.

Everyone of my favourite superheroes I managed to build with the starting rules. Ok, this did not include Captain-Marvel but I see no point to stat NPCs of that level anymore than white wolf did. These are "forces of nature" not to be constricted by dice rolls.

Taint just takes it to the next level ::happy One of my players has 4 dots of Elemental Anima, period. He also had 2 Aberrations in his character design even before he knew what Taint was and that it gives you points back. The poor guy didn't know what to do what all the Nova Points left. After filling in lots of background dots he turned his geek (physical attributes tertiary) into a professional-lvl athlete.

All of my players have bought an extra dot of their main power or mega attribute (or two, or three) because they simply had so many Nova points left.

I dread to think what the equivalent of a lvl 50+ Nova-points starting character would look like.

Even the "shaker" NPCs of my chronicle (who could easily wipe the floor with my PC group) that I built by just adding "what dots where needed" turned out to be about in the 40 Nova point lvl, and only one has medium Taint.

hmmmm....what am I trying to say? I don't know if you are a powergamer or munchkin because only by playing with someone can those traits manifest themselves.

You are, however, power and nova point gluttonous ::laugh

For me the challenge in creating Novas is not lack of points, it's the abundance of choice.

Addendum:

Ok, if we are talking about Silver-Surfer or Captain Marvel types here, 30 Nova points are not enough. The problem is the early 21st century Aberrant setting does not provide for these types. A whole party of "Power Cosmic" novas needs a "galactic saga" type background to adventure about, complete with uber-alloy spaceships, planets with oceans of acid and 15-nova-pts alien mooks trying to kill them. Otherwise they are like a lvl 20th D&D party that can't find anything other than kobold-holes to adventure in.

[SkyLion]

Wow : ::blink Edsan...

I think we are very different.

Even when I first started playing aberrant I had trouble...

But I am used to playing games like Rifts and Champions where you start with a diverse level of abilities. Let me guess...those characters from your game...all really low levels or really low versatility...like the guy with 4 in EA...he has a suite power which makes him more versatile than someone with 4 dots into quantum bolt. But as soon as you want to diversify you start sacrificing. Unless the whole game was supposed to be low powered as it sounds yours in Id rather not have just 1 dot in everything...

My first ever Aberrant PC:

Name: Redbolt!

His concept required him to be a supersonic speedster who was fast enough to catch bullets. Right there requires Mega Dex 4 and Hypermove 4...NPs: 24. BUT, important to the concept were other things...he has a lightning theme, represented by Adhesion (I wanted him to be able to run up walls and cling to people) 2 pts. as well as claws (electricity) 1 NP. +2 WP: 2 points total so far: 29, thats not including the skills, attributes and backgrounds I wanted him to have. Furthermore, the REAL concept included a force field, a dot of Mega-Str and Sta, and a dot of momentum control, necesitating another point of quantum: total so far: 43 add another 2 or 3 NPs for attributes, 2 NPs for skills and 1 or 2 for backgrounds and were at 48-50 points.

So...

He is exceptional in his niche as team speedster, is well rounded with offense and defense and momentum control adds a versatile element. He has medium willpower, an excellent spread of backgrounds (Eufiber, Influence, Resources (He happens to be a rockstar), some contacts etc. His athletic and fighting abilities are maxed as well as performance and style, complementing his theme. His base attriubtes are also superior.

Hes awesome at what he does, but isnt terribly versatile. I consider that a well executed concept.

[Centimane]

Jeez Sky I didn't realize you had this problem with your first character as well. I thought you were just having trouble "coming back down to earth" as it were after all the high-powered games you've been in. I remember the first charactre I ever created with 30 np. Man I was stoked at all the stuff he could do! He had mega-stamina, mega-dexterity, mega-intelligence, mega-perception, force field, and warp! He was supposed to be the owner/operator of his own nova travel and shipping agency (he used his warp ability to get people and things where they wanted to go).

The thing is (and Edsan you'll realize this as you go along to (and I guarantee your players will even sooner)), as you reach higher levels of power, and experiment with the system and what you can do with more dice in your pool, it becomes harder to be satisfied with only the base of 30. I tried to recreate my first character from memory a few months back, and I was at a loss as to how or why I was so awed at what he could do (I still liked him though, he was my first, what can I say?).

Even for Zhenglai and James I had to cut out some ideas that I had for their concepts when I first started creating them, and they both had significantly more than 30 np to play with.

I look at it this way; for higher-end games with lots of np I go with high-concept, complex characters who's powers can do complex, amazing things. For lower-end 30 np games I go with simple, basic concepts with no pretentions and I try to give them some really good hook to make them interesting.

The APG tries to convince you that it's the high-powered characters that need really great hooks, but someone with q-bolt 6 that has Mastery+AP+Area has all the hook he's ever going to need to make sure you remember him. A 30 point character on the other hand is only as memorable if they have a genuinely good hook somewhere in their makeup.

[SkyLion]

Well to be fair the very first versions were closer to the 29 point version. I made him with 30 NPs. He had some of the extra points devoted to backgrounds atts and skills compensated by his taint, which I originally had at 7 I believe, but finally took down to 5.

[metaphysician]

I dread to think what the equivalent of a lvl 50+ Nova-points starting character would look like.

While I don't have stats for them, thats roughly where our Ancient Aberrant PCs started, so. . .

-Hermes: 3 dots each Mega Dex and Hypermovement, 1 dot each Mega Strength, Stamina, Int, Wits. 2 dots Armor. Couple spare enhancements.

-Aral von Darien: IIRC, 2 dots Mega Strength and Int, 1 dot each Mega Dex, Stamina, Wits, Charisma. Armor 1. Nearly all attributes and abilities maxed.

-Artemis: IIRC, Mega Stamina 2, 1 dot Mega Dex, Per, Wits. Shapeshift 2, Nature Mastery 1. Bunch of enhancements.

-Quetzlcoatl: IIRC, Mega Int 2, 1 dot Mega Sta, Per, Charisma. 3 dots Weather Manip, 1 dot each pretercog, telepathy, ESP.

So 50 nova points isn't *that* scary looking.

[SkyLion]

See!!! Very nice MP!

Something else Id like to point out...

The concept of starting small and relatively weak is an old school roleplaying convention. You start at 1st level and every time you level up all of your traits increase or a good spread of them. Nothing wrong with this style, really. However it tends to be somewhat ingrained ini alot of roleplayers that this is the way it has to be. One of the things that first drew me to the game was the lure of powerful starting PCs. "What would you do with the power of a god?" I enjoy playing as a "mover and shaker" or at least "first among equals" much more than movers and shakers. At least when playing canon, again, and not a game specifically tailored to be a gritty daredevil, batman level. In canon games the published NPCs are all pretty much more than average paragons (another common WW complaint). Its another old RP convention that the PCs start out small and insignifigant

(again, as compared to the big NPCs), but I question why this should be written in stone.

Mostly my problem *these* days with 30 NPs is something that Cottus alluded to...that a 30 point Nova is straightforward, simple and basic in design. As a character designing madman, I enjoy getting baroque and creative in my architecture, finding interesting ways to simulate things and trying to show multiple facets to a theme, rather than your basic 1 dot flight 1 dot force field, 1 dot q-bolt. I design characters for fun and straightforward is just plain boring to me....give that q-bolt MIRV, link the flight so it always and only activates with the forcefield. Add some hypermovement and make the force field projectable. Add in an immobilize to represent projecting the force walls to capture people and TK to carry the force bubbles and represent manipulating objects with smaller fields. (or talk your ST into allowing forcefield, TK, and immobilize as slots in an elemental mastery but then you are paying level 3 prices for level 2 dots...) Dont forget a nice spread of complimenting mega atts and enhancements. All of a sudden I am way more interested...

[Alex Green]

On a side note, most Q5 characters aren't all that effective in combat, especially at 30 nova points.

For 50 nova points, 5 dots in Temporal Manip + misc stats + (maybe) a mega or two. So is this a powerful character or isn't it?

[metaphysician]

On a side note, most Q5 characters aren't all that effective in combat, especially at 30 nova points.

For 50 nova points, 5 dots in Temporal Manip + misc stats + (maybe) a mega or two. So is this a powerful character or isn't it?

I'd say depends on the situation and what those miscellaneous stats cover. The big thing with Temp Manip is Fast Time for persistent extra actions, and Time Stop for a mostly irresistible incap. So, if some of those mega atts include Mega Int, I'd say yes. If an opponent can be hurt by mundane weapon combat, you spam them with tons of attacks. If they can't, timestop.

As for the idea of starting small and insignificant, yeah, thats a particularly odious meme in RPing. I think a big part of its origin is in that the original systems didn't really support starting characters at anything but level 1. You build a level 10 D&D character, but how much treasure and magic items do they start with? The system traditionally didn't have a useful answer ( either excessively sparse or excessively effective ).

Aberrant is much nicer in this sense, though. Want to start at higher level? Just give more nova points.

[Alex Green]

The other thing about Abby (D10) is even a starting abby can reasonably have Resources 5 & be able to Crush any baseline in combat.

Moving to D20 you have to deal with the idea that a level 10 Abby is an even match for a level 10 Directive agent.

Or put another way, the typical 30 point nova is built off a lot of levels.

[BcAugust]

While I don't have stats for them, thats roughly where our Ancient Aberrant PCs started, so. . .

-Artemis: IIRC, Mega Stamina 2, 1 dot Mega Dex, Per, Wits. Shapeshift 2, Nature Mastery 1. Bunch of enhancements.

Artemis had Mega Sta, Dex and Per at 2, Mega Wits 1, Shapeshift 3, Nature's Mastery 2, actually. Then again, I had almost nothing in skills or stats(I think I spent three nova points(two on stats, one on skills) outside of powers and mega stats) and a willpower 4.

Almost all of my enhancements were bought in play, as well. It's just that I spent pretty much the first seven sessions on just buying enhancements.