Aberrant RPG - Regeneration loophole?

[BlueNinja]

I was considering this because of a situation earlier today in the tabletop game I play in. No, this won't work in Trans-D, and I don't even know if I can get away with it, but I figured I'd point it out.

Let's say your nova has Mega-Stamina of 2+ with Regeneration. And you're at Dead with no quantum. So how do you come back to life? That's simple: Die for Power. Take one un-healable lethal level, and heal up two others from whatever put you at dead. Repeat until you're awake. Worst case with your escape, within a few days of bed rest, you'll be good as new.

As was pointed out to me by Nullifier, this might not work depending on the ST for two reasons: 1) taking more damage when you're already at "Dead" puts you beyond Regeneration's bounds, or 2) you can't Die for Power when you're unconscious/dead. I know #1 doesn't work for my game because taking additional damage just means you have to get a heck of a lot more healing before you're back 'up' but it's a loophole that could have saved a PC from a violent, messy death at the hands of 1,000 kg of C4 detonating beneath his feet.

[Finbar]

I can't even play devil's advocate with this...

If you were merely unconscious and it was caused by bruised levels, I'd have no problem with you trying to pull this off; you would be, at best, just at one level lethal, and a lot bruised, so I could see you trading a lethal level to get rid of two bruised levels, and thus be able to at least crawl away.

However, if you are unsconscious due to lethal levels, well, you just don't have any health levels to trade. Even allowing that regen happens instantly, the problem is that you need to be able to trade a lethal level in order for it to happen. Once you trade in that last health level, you go from unconscious to dead, and regen just doesn't happen when you are dead.

Now, if you wanted to pull it off, try this: Take Healing. Make it usable only on self (1 pt weakness), and only when dying (ie, one more HL and you die; 5 pt weakness). Throw in Reduced Quantum Costx2 (bringing it from 3Q to activate to 0Q to activate). Now, take one more weakness (just one point) for one more HL of effect (thus, you spend 1Q, you get two HL's back; this translates to a gain of one HL).

You'll be limited to gaining one HL (you'll have healed two HL's, but it cost you one). Also, you'll need ST permission to do this (it's a lot munchkin), but that should okay because you can only heal one HL this way, which is maybe enough to survive, but not enough to do anything involving powers or enhancements.

If it helps...

FR

[Alex Green]

2) you can't Die for Power when you're unconscious/dead.

That sounds right to me.

[SkyLion]

They actually fixed that regeneration loopgole in the APG errata....it suggests either not allowing the levels burned to be regenerated or making it cost the same to regenerate therefore making it "break even".

[BlueNinja]

They actually fixed that regeneration loopgole in the APG errata....it suggests either not allowing the levels burned to be regenerated or making it cost the same to regenerate therefore making it "break even".

Yes. You burn one life level ... and regenerate two others from a different damage source. Net gain, one healed health level.

and regen just doesn't happen when you are dead.

Why not? It's an automatic action that does not require any conscious thought (unless you want it that way).

[SkyLion]

Yes. You burn one life level ... and regenerate two others from a different damage source. Net gain, one healed health level.

So the life gives you two quantum points for the level yes? I thought you healed damage in the reverse order it was taken. So being on deaths door (incapacitated) and then taking another damage level that cant be regenerated (without spending the quantum you just got for it) and you are still below incapacitated.

Of course I dont have my books with me here at work so I may just be confused...

[Blue Thunder]

Why not? It's an automatic action that does not require any conscious thought (unless you want it that way).

I would think it matters on the source of your death. Novas are enduring people, especially those with Regeneration, but decapitation or a nuclear blast or Disintegration to the face or exposure to the vacuum of space would just be declared off-limits by me. Your'e dead. Unless you've got Invulnerability: nuclear energy or something like that specific to the "death" you face.

If it was something like bullet fire, or a building collapse, or something else along those lines I'd be more forgiving. For the sake of drama, I'd let the character survive.

[Alex Green]

So the life gives you two quantum points for the level yes? I thought you healed damage in the reverse order it was taken. So being on deaths door (incapacitated) and then taking another damage level that cant be regenerated (without spending the quantum you just got for it) and you are still below incapacitated.

The worst damage is always at the top of the stack. Healers (presumably) have the option to pick what kind of damage they heal (because the amount of effort is different), regen probably does too.

The Theory: You've suffered lethal damage past Incapacitated to Dead.

X Bruised; X Bruised; X Hurt; X Injured; X Wounded; X Maimed; X Crippled; X Incapacitated; X (Dead)

You burn a life level (which inflicts a much worse injury)

X Bruised; X Bruised; X Hurt; X Injured; X Wounded; X Maimed; X Crippled; X Incapacitated; 2X (Dead)

But gives you two juice, you have Mega-Stamina 2 so you use that juice to regen both.

X Bruised; X Bruised; X Hurt; X Injured; X Wounded; X Maimed; X Crippled; X Incapacitated;

Now we are at Incapacitated.

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Similarly, You punched out someone with Claws+Agg and took a level of Agg on top of three levels of Bashing damage.

A Bruised; / Bruised; / Hurt; / Injured; Wounded;

You are at Injured. Assuming you have 3 juice left you (presumably) have the choice of whether you want to heal all three of the levels of Bashing damage, or you could heal the Aggravated damage at the top.

-----------------------

Alternatively the ST could rule that the lightest injuries always heal first, just like with standard healing.

[Nullifier]

2) you can't Die for Power when you're unconscious/dead.

Actually, I said that Dying for Power is a conscious decision, and you can't make those types of decisions at Incapcitated w/o spending a temp wp to make a single conscious action. Presuming this also worked at Dead, you could theoretically Die for Power, then start regening, assuming you had the temp wp left for those actions. However, I'm not sure about letting a character take any actions when they're at Dead, willpower or no willpower. ::unsure ::ultracool

[Finbar]

Doing this no particular order:

Bear in mind: The situation given was that the nova had 0Q and had taken enough damage to be rendered unconscious (ie, one more lethal HL, and the nova's dead). Sorta pointing this out so I'm not misunderstood.

1) No actions are possible once the character is dead. Period. Assuming that the character was unconscious due to lethal levels (with no bruised levels) and was able nonetheless to initiate the Dying for Power move, the character would be Dead before being able to do anything else. So, no regeneration possible.

On the other hand, if the character was unconscious due to bashing levels, and still had at least two levels remaining, it would be an ST call. In essence, the character had to have taken enough bashing to render them unconscious, and then was starting on turning the bashing into lethal. Dying for Power inflicts lethal damage. As per page 253 in the corebook, once the character has been rendered unconscious due to Bashing, even one level of Lethal damage is sufficient to kill the character.

By the book, the character would be dead before any actions could be taken. However, the ST could allow the regen to take place, which makes sense for a High Mega-Sta character.

2) You could allow a Mega-Sta enhancement that allows one action after death has been reached. But that's just me...

3) The APB doesn't change the order in which damage was taken for Dying for Power, just how it's affected by Regeneration. In essence, those health levels can't be regen'ed or costs twice as much (ST decision). Note that they can be healed normally (time or the power).

4) And, yes, the cred is one HL after you regen. You get 2QP and one lethal HL for DFP, and, if you pour it into Regen, that gives you 2 HL's. And if you push it (and the ST allows it), you could heal, at best, half your HL's (rounded down).

For what it's worth...

FR