Trinity RPG - Robots

[Blue Thunder]

Isn't it odd how Asia Ascendant lacks any stats for robots? The section on Nippon says that there are more robot children than actual children in that nation. Given that level of mastery over robotics, would it be too much for a player to want a robot Follower? Robots would make for perfect Followers. They're basically agents that can interact with thier environment. Instead of having a minicomp with an agent, a player could have thier agent transfered into a top-class Nihonjin robot body so the agent can assist him in battle and walk with him wherever he goes. Or maybe a government wants to add robotic pilots to thier spacecraft and the players must combat them for whatever reason. Or the characters are being stalked by a particularly deadly assassin robot. Or maybe there are rumors of a secret robot army being built by the Nihonjin deep under thier massive arcology for a time when they might need it. The possiblities are endless.

So why not make our own stats, for robots?

I'll quickly reference the robot text from Asia Ascendant. I'm going to put the parts I want to emphasize in bold.

Robots

Nippon is widely considered the most artificial culture humanity has ever produced. On top of the fact that everyone lives inside a vast, carefully controlled arcology that more than 75% of the population has never left, Nippon also uses robots more widely than any other nation. In addition to the household and cleaning robots commonly found in houses worldwide, many Nihonjin have robot pets, and even robot companions. A number of individuals with No Touch or Total Allergy syndrome have SI robotic children and companions to allow them to simulate controlled and safe interaction with other people.

The first such robots were first developed more than thirty years ago, and within the past two decades they have also become popular among healthy Nihonjin. In 2112, the number of robotic children surpassed the number of actual children. Robots are also extensively used for telepresence interactions. An increasing number of Nihonjin purchase robots that can be controlled using a full VR suit. Using these robots, sufferers of No Touch syndrome can interact normally by putting on VR suits and sending robots out to act as their eyes, ears, and hands. In the best models it is difficult to distinguish between teleoperating a robot and actually being there. A number of wealthy Nihonjin also use these robots as a risk-free way to engage in highly dangerous sports like armed gladiatorial combat, Russian roulette or daring acrobatics performed without a net. Many of these robots possess enhanced strength, speed and agility to allow their users the experience of performing physical feats that are impossible for normal humans.

Teleoperated robots are also sometimes used in crime. Using highly encrypted transmitters, some criminals employ human-looking robots with enhanced physical capacities to intimidate blackmail victims and to perform robberies and assassinations. Since such robots are highly resistant to damage, special police carrying powerful weapons and wearing light or mini VARGs are normally called out to deal with these problems. While some law enforcement officers work to stop or destroy the robot, others attempt to trace the robot's signal to its source and physically apprehend the individual who is operating the robot. When all else fails, officers will attempt to discreetly follow the robot back to where it is depositing its illegally gained goods. Recently a few criminals have begun programming advanced SI-controlled robots to act as armed bodyguards, assassins, and even thieves. Fitting a SI-controlled robot with deadly weapons or programming it to attack humans is a serious offense punishable by electronically monitored indentured servitude and partial memory erasure.

Strange how that is all they put in for robots. Then again, it probably wasn't complete. I would have liked robot rules more than Superior rules, personally.

Okay, let me start.

In addition to the household and cleaning robots commonly found in houses worldwide, many Nihonjin have robot pets, and even robot companions.

Okay, stats for cleaning robots and such wouldn't really be necessary. Maybe one or two, but only for completeness sake. Robot pets wouldn't be too necessary either. But the fact that players can buy and keep robot pets and have robots cleaning and servicing thier houses deserves some attention.

In 2112, the number of robotic children surpassed the number of actual children.

This is actually pretty creepy. Imagine growing up with a robot for a brother. Or what if you have a robot for a kid? The main question here is over how intelligent the robot children are. Agents can adapt over time to thier users. Do robot children adapt to thier "parents" over time? Do they develop personalities? Is the field of robotics quickly bridging the gap between SI and AI?

An increasing number of Nihonjin purchase robots that can be controlled using a full VR suit.

It would be fun to run an adventure where the players must use remote robot bodies to accomplish a task. Maybe they're entering a heavily Tainted zone. Maybe they're locked into a facility and must control robots to get themselves out. Maybe they remote control cleaning robots to infiltrate a building. How would the rules handle this? How would Technokinesis handle this?

Many of these robots possess enhanced strength, speed and agility to allow their users the experience of performing physical feats that are impossible for normal humans.

This leads me to stats. Character cannot play robots because they use SI and not AI. If a player were to play a robot they would be playing the equivalent of a minicomp agent with legs/treads/whatever. I don't think robot character creation rules are necessary either, do you? Not all robots are created equal...some are going to be very powerful, but most are going to be rather weak. it all matters on how they are menufactured.

Would a robot be able to get 6 dots in Strength? Maybe a specially created lifting robot could. But what about a combat robot? Obviously a gigantic olaminium plated fist the size of your head made from orbital steel that smacks your character in the face is going to cause more damage than anything a normal human could possibly dish out, even with biotech gauntlets. Having the equivalent of a steel beam plow into your face is something that simply cannot be matched by a human fist. And soak would be far greater than anything a human could have with normal armor. Dexterity, Perception, and Wits would also be able to get high thanks to advanced awareness and reaction systems...but I think a robot with too much armor/soak would have to take a Dexterity penalty. Stamina could equate to power reserves; that is, how long a robot can survive without recharging. Intelligence would be easy to explain, and I can see a robot getting 6 dots in that as well. The Social Attributes of Charisma and Manipulation would start at 1 and likely never get beyond 2 dots. Appearance would probably always be at 1, but in the case of human-looking robots like robot children or human impersonators this could be at 2 (the "average" level).

Abilities could be handled the same, I guess. A few may be restricted to no more than one to three dots, like Rapport or Savvy. Maybe there are some new Abilities for robots to use. And the biggest question: do they learn them from experience, or do they have them programmed in? Obviously robots can't be played by characters because they are only SIs (AI only exists in Trinity as rumors) so I don't think Experience Points are an issue here. Heck...would they even be able to gain them? Maybe programming a robot for Mental and Social and upgrading it's frame/body for Physical would be the only way to improve them.

Or maybe this idea:

Instead of having normal Attributes like a human/psion, a robot body has only Physical Attributes. The Mental Attributes are handled with the agent's programming (as in, use his Performance and Applications to roll for anything in the Mental area as an agent normally would). Social Attributes would be automatically set at 1 each, except with special upgrades, and the programming for Social Attributes would be with the robot "brain" (which I am referring to as agent) along with Mental. So a robot brain can be transfered to a new "body" and still retain the same Mental and Social Attributes (although Perception may be an exception, since the new body may have lesser sensors).

Using highly encrypted transmitters, some criminals employ human-looking robots with enhanced physical capacities to intimidate blackmail victims and to perform robberies and assassinations.

I can't be the only one that wants to see stats for an assassination robot. Or a military robot. Or a pilot robot.

~~~~~

These are just some ramblings/ideas. What do you guys think?

Or how about this idea: biotech robots? They basically already exist in some limited form. All biotech is technically alive anyway. There are some biotech devices like jumpships that are already considered semi-sentient. And the Qin have thier normal biosuits as well as thier human disguise biosuits.

I searched the Trinity forums for the word "robot" and nothing substantial came up. Am I really the first to bring this up? I'm thinking I could look through my copy of D20 Future for some ideas. The D20 Modern series is superb (the best D20 system ever IMO) and D20 Future has a hell of a lot of good ideas. I noticed D20 Trinity borrowed a lot from it.

[phoenix]

Well, don't forget about VARGs. They have hardtech ones too, and Nippon is indeed at the forefront. Check the Tech handbook for more on that.

Meanwhile, I do think I remember seeing Heritage come up with something like that a while ago.. Yep, here it is, before starting the game New Guardians he cooked up some rules for playing "synthetics". They aren't given completely here, but you know, better than nothing. I far prefer Superiors, myself. ::getsome

[Alistaire]

Wow, that's some great ideas there. I hadn't thought about them at all for my game, but it's great to see even after all this time the universe is rich enough to still add in new elements.

So, to severely boil down what you've been saying into the simplest terms, agent + varg (whatever size) = robot. Since rules exist for both, it's a done deal; just start making them up. I do recall one reference in the main book, under Devices, mentioning a "fully-SI controlled Varg" as an option. Obviously, it could pilot itself, limited only by its programming. Damn this is good, and you've already provided many plot threads to use. Kudos and thanks! ::thumbup

ps. On stat limits for robots: for strength I'd say that the limits are really high, limited mostly by available engineering practices (a hydraulic piston in the arms could cause a lot of damage), and well, money. Other things like dex and armor have more limits, but still pretty good, just with exponentially rising costs. I'd suggest for some rough guidelines, checking out other games, like GURPS or Traveller, which both have good 'bot rules. Cyberpunk 2020's Chromebooks have many great examples of consumer robots without being heavy on stats, from domestic, to pets, security, even "biotech" stuff for the non-Nihonjin types.

And using Technokinesis/electromanipulation to remotely program and pilot robots would significantly make being a 'tek cooler. I now recall doing this a little when the PC's went up against a big-time rogue 'tek as the adventure's "end-boss". They were on a space station orbiting Jupiter, and while there was very little in the way of actual "walking around" robots, the entire station became this guy's tool/body/weapon, from the security cameras to the doors. What a way to scare the crap out of your players when they are weeks away from any help!

Man, I want to get to work on some self-mobile SI bioapps now, esp. since biocomps are just becoming more common in our game. I can have all sorts of new enemies for the PC's to face... ::devil

[Blue Thunder]

I just thought of this...what about Health Levels? I think for simplicity's sake they should remain the same as a human's health levels. Robot "extras" would even have the same as human "extras" Maybe combat robots would have more health levels? I say just give them extra health levels per each combat robot; that is, there is no set "rule" for it, just hand out more health levels to robots that you feel should be tougher.

And remember robots are NPCs and never PCs (since they are just programs within frames), so you can feel free to make them greatly vary in power and remember they don't go through a character creation process. They're more like equipment and gear than characters. So when making them, think of them as vehicles and ships. Except when making thier agents, of course.

But does this mean a robot would count as a Device or a Follower? I think Follower would be appropriate for a child or servant bot with programming and frame exactly like it should be. Followers can be secretaries, assistants, drivers, engineers, and the like. So a robot Follower should be fine. But if that child or servant bot had hidden combat programming and concealed weapons it would be a Device (or maybe it would require both Device and Follower Backgrounds?). And maybe a combat bot would be a Device. A Device is normally anything modified beyond its original design or of significant ability or fame...but you never see any robots in the books besides the mention in Asia Ascendant, so I think having an unmodified combat bot would be a Device on its own. Even the weakest and smallest combat robot is basically a gun with legs.

The only robots you would ever need specific stats for would be the non-civilian type robots. The combat bots, the spy bots, the virtual control bots, the exploration bots...those types. Most robots are children, pet, and service robots that won't need specific stats.

You can assume the average bipedal humanoid robots would share the same frame. A frame would determine the three Physical Attributes, Perception, and Appearance. This is a nice starting point for the average "extra" bot:

Str 2

Dex 2

Sta 2

Per 1

App 1

As a variant, you can take one die away from any Attribute (except Appearance) and add it to another Attribute (again, except Appearance), so you could have like Str 1 and Sta 3. That sounds about fair right? Again, this would just be a general guideline. There's nothing wrong with having a bot start out with one or two extra Attribute dice. Not all bots are created equal.

Then for Mental, just roll as an agent would. For an agent in a typical "off the shelf" servant or child frame just assume it has Performance 2 and then like 4-8 dots in Applications of relevance. Combat robots wouldn't need an agent with many Applications either, since it's focused on combat and Physical abilities. Robots involved in teaching, record keeping, history, demolitions, engineering, medicine, science, exploration, or anything else along those lines would need a higher Performance and more Application dots.

Then for Social, I think maybe having a default of zero would be best. Remember that these are basically agents in frames, and agents lack any Charisma and Manipulation. Appearance is determined by frame, and could easily go beyond 1 or 2. Sexbots, anyone?

But then how would you handle Physical Ability rolls? What about Charisma and Manipulation Abilities? If you notice, the Applications that agents use are actually the various Specialties of the Mental abilities. I can't recall off my head how Social rolls are handled with agents. Is this in the Tech Manual? I'll check later. For Physical abilities, why not have them built in along with the Physical Attributes? I think Physical Ability dots should stay with the frame if the agent's data in transfered to a new body. After all, knowing how to jump farther and knowing how to shoot better are useless if your frame is inferior. So...having Physical Abilities alongside Physical Attributes for each frame sounds reasonable.

Hmm...those are further ideas I guess. Just to get them off my head and see what anyone else thinks.

With my next entry, I'll try listing actual robot creations. I'm thinking stats for a child/household robot would be nice to get out of the way, then go into combat and multipurpose robots from there.

[Blue Thunder]

Holy crap I forgot all about this topic. But...I'm too busy with Bright Continent and Implicate Order to do it now. I guess this'll go onto the back burner for now. If I ever do make an e-book of this (or just a textfile) I'll likely include cybernetics and genetic engineering and the super-soldier stuff from the Player's Guide (just for the hell of it).

[jsnead]

Here is one that was cut from AA due to space reasons:

Katana-5 V-R Sports Robot: This humanoid robot is designed so that the user can operate it using a V-R suit. The cost of this suit is included with the price of this robot. Using a radio-link with a range of 25 km, the owner can vicariously experience deep sea diving, mountain climbing, or even gladiatorial combat. Individuals suffering from No Touch Syndrome also sometimes use this or similar robots to engage in social interactions.

Katana-5 robots have a Strength and Stamina of 5, and appearance of 4, and an armor of [4/4,0]. They use the operator’s other Attributes and allow the operator to use all Abilities normally. Some users fit these robots with SIs to allow them to operate independently. An SI computer with a performance of five gives the unit four dots in Dexterity, three dots in Perception and Wits, two dots in Intelligence, and one dot each in Charisma and Manipulation, as well as the ability to use any Strength, Dexterity, Perception, or Intelligence-based Abilities the agent program possesses.

Agent programs can be programmed with up to three dots in any Strength, Dexterity or Perception Abilities in addition to the normal programs possessed by more standard agents. Tech: Hard, Mass: 100, Cost: $$$$$ $ (in addition to the cost of any installed computer and SI agent). A lower cost version with a Strength, Stamina, and Appearance of 3 and armor of [2/2,0] costs $$$$$. Renting a sports robot for four hours costs $$.

[madcat82]

I just read this topic and I have to say Blue, you are a genious. No seriously.

[Blue Thunder]

I just read this topic and I have to say Blue, you are a genious. No seriously.

Um, thanks!

Here is one that was cut from AA due to space reasons:

Whoa, do you have anything else at all that was cut from AsAs?

[jsnead]

Um, thanks!

Whoa, do you have anything else at all that was cut from AsAs?

Nope, some of James' material may have been cut, but that's the only specific piece of mine that was.

[Blue Thunder]

Hey SkyLion, this is the thread I mentioned. This one has the robot from AsAs, as well as my super-sexy rough draft robot idea from way the hell back when I first joined this place. Just letting you know ^_~

[SkyLion]

Wow.

,,

Thanks man!

,,

Ask and ye shall recieve...

[jsnead]

This was cut from AA for lack of space:

Katana-5 V-R Sports Robot: This humanoid robot is designed so that the user can operate it using a V-R suit. The cost of this suit is included with the price of this robot. Using a radio-link with a range of 25 km, the owner can vicariously experience deep sea diving, mountain climbing, or even gladiatorial combat. Individuals suffering from No Touch Syndrome also sometimes use this or similar robots to engage in social interactions.

Katana-5 robots have a Strength and Stamina of 5, an Appearance of 4, and armor of [4/4,0]. They use the operator’s other Attributes and allow the operator to use all Abilities normally. Some users fit these robots with SIs to allow them to operate independently. An SI computer with a performance of five or more gives the unit four dots in Dexterity, three dots in Perception and Wits, two dots in Intelligence, and one dot each in Charisma and Manipulation, as well as the ability to use any Strength, Dexterity, Perception, or Intelligence-based Abilities the agent program possesses.

Agent programs can be programmed with up to three dots in any Strength, Dexterity or Perception Abilities in addition to the normal programs possessed by more standard agents. Tech: [Hard], Mass: 100, Cost: ••••• (in addition to the cost of any installed computer and SI agent). A lower cost version with a Strength, Stamina, and Appearance of 3 and armor of [2/2,0] costs ••••. Renting a sports robot for four hours costs ••.

[phoenix]

::wub

[Blue Thunder]

Would it be okay if we added this robot to an e-book here? With your permission?

[jsnead]

Would it be okay if we added this robot to an e-book here? With your permission?

Most certainly!

[Blue Thunder]

*plants down flag*

I claim this robot!

Credit shall be given, sir.

[Rorx]

There is also the open question of what sort of heading robot pets would come under. Most would just be nothing more than a cosmetic body shell in your choice of style/size and a basic agent - nothing more than a jazzed up Aibo. On the other hand it could be a beefed up robo-rotweiller with suitably nasty bite, enhanced speed and senses - in which case it is pushing the envelope for a combat robot. Still, given the cost of BENGibeasts robots like this would have to be cheaper than an equivalent biotech beastie, and much more acceptable to major markets like Nihjon and the FSA.

Given the comments about the surveillance mindset of both the FSA and Nihjon governments (to name just two of the many in Trinity) you can be sure that there are a large number of surveillance type drones (scaled up/down versions of the current day Predator and Global Hawk systems and various planned successors).

I second a previous contributors suggestion for looking at Gurps Robot and Cyberpunk, although most of the Cyberpunk genre games are notoriously bad about considering robots much, and would add the Gurps based Fifth Wave and its supplements.

If you want any help or comments as/when you get your book underway I'd be glad to help.