Aberrant RPG - Sterility Cocktail.

[Bahamut810]

Well, folks. The time has come to get some imput from our favorite board ever, the EON Forums!

Now today, we here at "The New Flesh" Studios have come bearing a question. We have talked about this amongst ourselves for about 3 pages worth of posts and have not been able to settle this. How do you get healed from a Sterility Cocktail?

We have many things going back and forth. Some of us think that Healing with the Detox extra may work. Some of us think that, once the Sterility Cocktail (SC for short) is no longer 'renewed'(introdused to the system) or disabled in some way that Regeneration would work. While another person thinks that reparing the damage could only happen from an 'act of Bounty' (and we are still not too sure about her exact powers).

Now we are bringing this out for you, the kind folks at EON, to put in your two cents on this contraversial topic.

[Alex Green]

Page numbers for people’s reference.

>The Utopian sterility cocktail-

These are the 4 best canon references I could find detailing what exactly the infamous "Utopian sterility cocktail" actually is.

[Exposé: Aberrants]

P. 16: "... a genetic matrix that 'reprograms' a nova's enhanced immune system to recognize native gametes as pathogens- basically turning a nova's own white blood cells against native sperm and egg."

(Sprocket's comment: I think whoever wrote this little gem of technobabble goofed, since it apparently contradicts the material from the other relevant Aberrant books.)

[Aberrant: Project Utopia]

P. 51: "Moxinoquantamine and adrenocilin... are laced with subtle, yet effective, contraceptive drugs developed by Proteus agents from the Nova Medecine section. These contraceptives sterilize novas with a single dose by attaching markers to their gametes that cause the nova's immune system to misidentify these cells as pathogens and destroy them... Proteus does not have an antidote."

P. 110: "However, what these side effects indicate is that adrenocilin (along with moxinoquantamine and Mite) carries a hidden birth-control agent that activates as your node channels quantum energy..."

[Aberrant Players Guide]

P. 103, Health enhancement: "Your body resists... Utopian sterility cocktails, chemical agents of all sorts... One level of this enhancement subtracts the nova's Mega-Stamina from the Virulence rating of any poison, disease... or chemical intrusion."

Boiled down, all that the canon text excerpts give us is this:

1- Proteus has laced the 3 major nova drugs with their special contraceptive drug(s), the "sterility cocktail".

2- The SC is triggered by channeling quantum energy via the M-R Node.

3- The SC marks a nova's own gametes, making them look like pathogens to the nova's white blood cells, which then proceed to destroy said gametes.

4- The SC has a Virulence rating… {of 2}

[Alex Green]

The next question concerns counter measures.

IMHO, The existing rules imply the following:

Counter Measures:

1) Health. The ultimate trump over the SC, Health prevents the SC from working at all and repairs any damage it has already done. If purchased with experience, time must pass until full fertility is restored (see dorm rules below).

2) Dorm 5. Dorm states that with dorm of 5, you have two different bodies, one nova, one baseline. So which one is going to be sterilized? Shutting down the node means no quantum is channeled and the “nova metabolism” doesn’t exist so it can’t be turned against you. That’s the good news. The bad news is you have to be dormed a long time before this will work. For male novas, sperm takes a month to develop, so they have to dorm a month before they get above zero fertility and two months before they are normal. For females, they have to dorm before the egg is released and then half to stay dormed the entire pregnancy. Any undorming during that time, regardless of whether they spend quantum, means they will have to start over.

3) Gadget rules mean you can make drugs which will give someone “Health”. If they have 2 dots of Mega-Stamina, then their fertility is restored, although as with Dorm rules this might take a while before they can do anything. If they don’t have 2 dots of Mega-Stamina, then they have to make a Resistance roll at +2 diff (+1 if they have one level of M-Stam). The problem is that gadget rules also means they only have “Health” for a while. After the drug wears off, they don’t become sterile again, but if they are exposed to the SC they will be sterile again (again with the potential of miscarriage if female).

4) Quantum Powers, specifically the Fertility enhancer technique of Bio-Manipulation. This ignores rules for time needed for gametes to form.

EDITED: This isn't perminant.

Other Quantum Powers: (And my views there of)

A) Regeneration: IMHO it doesn’t help. Doesn’t help remove the SC. Doesn’t restore fertility any quicker if you have it. Males generate sperm at a certain rate and their absence doesn’t count as a missing organ to regrow. Females missing sex cells (eggs) do count as something to regrow, and it does, but like aggravated damage it takes a set amount of time.

Adaptability: Ditto. Doesn’t help.

C) Healing (basic):

IMHO, it can’t remove the SC. Without removing the SC anything it might do would be undone by the nova’s immune system. Healing doesn’t do anything against poisons and/or diseases (and the SC works a lot more like a disease than a poison). Further, Healing is a common power. Nova sterility is a known common problem. If a common problem has a common solution, then that implies there is no problem.

D) Healing + Detox:

Similar problem. Detox doesn’t actually “cure” anything that basic Healing can’t, it just removes dice penalties before the underlying condition is cured. In this case there are no dice penalties to remove and the underlying problem never goes away. In addition it seems unlikely that it's never occured to a nova healer to try to cure the SC with a powermax.

E) Bio-Manipulation and can it permanently remove the SC.

Yes it can. I’d claim that the “natural” technique is Form Manipulation which doesn’t affect Novas, but that just means it should be moved to Health Manipulation.

[phoenix]

Alex's position looks good to me. Anyone have a counter-argument?

[Alex Green]

Sorry guys, I made an error above. The Bio-Manipulation technique, "Body Manip" does NOT restore fertility perminantly because Bounty doesn't leave novas perminantly able to have kids.

[Bahamut810]

Well, we even have the dispute over what Bounty could do. For all we know she does permemently repair them (especially women in this case), but 'breaks' them before they leave to uphold the masquerade (forgive the vampire usage).

My take on the SC was that, as long as you could get rid of the SC in the system, you can heal everything back normally. For sperm from the ol' family jewels, I could see having to regrow them...but after the SC destroys the eggs in the ovaries? I think that Healing/Regeneration would at least work on that since thoes are part of the womans body.

I would think that Detox could purify the system of the SC to allow it to start its healing as well, since I would consider it a posion (it has a V-rating of 2).

And thats if we ignore the fact that novas are capable of anything.

The only reason that I can think of that none of that would have worked was becuase (for Story reasons) the peeps at WW decided to ignore the rules in order to add this little bit to the world.

[Tomasdark]

ANd all this is why my characters dont use drugs. and because mr. T used to always say not to use drugs.

So best way to heal sterility? Destroy proteus and or dont use drugs.

All that aside i think the ideas you all had sound solid.

[Nullifier]

Actually, it's likely that's the cocktail itself dissipates and only the markers on the gametes are left, so detox wouldn't do anything, since marked gametes don't really count as drugs or toxins.

[phoenix]

Actually, it's likely that's the cocktail itself dissipates and only the markers on the gametes are left, so detox wouldn't do anything, since marked gametes don't really count as drugs or toxins.

That's possible for women, but not for men. This is because sperm are constantly reproduced by the billions, whereas a woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have until menopause.

[ezekiel]

::confused Don't babies come from storks? ::confused

[Blue Thunder]

The answer is simple...magic!

[Nullifier]

That's possible for women, but not for men. This is because sperm are constantly reproduced by the billions, whereas a woman is born with all the eggs she will ever have until menopause.

Right, but it seems like in the male's case the marker would be applied to the cells that produce sperm. Otherwise you have a situation where the drug stays in a nova's body indefinately, a situation that seems to be highly unlikely.

[Alex Green]

Well, we even have the dispute over what Bounty could do.  For all we know she does permanently repair them (especially women in this case), but 'breaks' them before they leave to uphold the masquerade (forgive the vampire usage).

I’m going to assume you actually mean that…

This sounds extremely out of character for Bounty in both the level of Manipulation and what the character is all about. This also seems to fly in the face of what little we know about her power.

My take on the SC was that, as long as you could get rid of the SC in the system, you can heal everything back normally.  For sperm from the ol' family jewels, I could see having to regrow them...but after the SC destroys the eggs in the ovaries?  I think that Healing/Regeneration would at least work on that since thoes are part of the womans body.

Agreed. It’s also worth noting that without the SC, female novas would presumably grow back eggs just as they would damaged nerves.

I would think that Detox could purify the system of the SC to allow it to start its healing as well, since I would consider it a poison (it has a V-rating of 2). … The only reason that I can think of that none of that would have worked was because (for Story reasons) the peeps at WW decided to ignore the rules in order to add this little bit to the world. 

Did you just say that in theory Healing works on everything, but in cannon it doesn’t work here? I don’t understand, are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me?

Healing is extremely limited in curing Disease and Poisons, it adds dice to your resistance roll, but that’s all. The SC apparently doesn’t allow a resistance roll after it’s been established (perhaps even not at the time), so adding dice to a roll you don’t get doesn’t do much to help.

On the subject of Detox, that does nothing for dealing with the underlying condition, it only lets you function ‘normally’ (meaning with your full die pool) before that condition is cured. Even if you interpret “Detox” to purge the drug itself from a novas bloodstream (that would be a big reach considering what it actually says), even this wouldn’t help since the SC’s effects last longer than the carrier drug.

[Bahamut810]

This sounds extremely out of character for Bounty in both the level of Manipulation and what the character is all about. This also seems to fly in the face of what little we know about her power.

Its a question of the 'greater good' (so to speak). Do you think that the great Mother Bounty would put the children at risk so easily? Its not like the parents can't come back to have another one. And its not like the parents keep the kids (they are left with Bounty, period). I think that it would be reasonable to assume she would do that. If she didn't then Protius (and every other world power) would start seeing things they dont like ('hey, these Nova's are having kids...so are these...and these...and they are all Terats...Bring 'em in for intense psychic probing and questioning boys!')

Did you just say that in theory Healing works on everything, but in cannon it doesn’t work here?

I am saying that healing+detox should work in this case, but that the writers nix it. We already are under the assumption that all Nova's are steril already (even with their enhanced resistance).

Which leads to another point. From the defenitions used in the AMB, and the powers in the book, there should be no reason that you cant be able to (fairly easily) get rid of the SC from your system. Some examples...

Page 255 calls a disease a biological weapon, and from the descriptions in the books about Bio-weaps and the SC, it would be considered a disease (with the exception of them calling it a drug). It goes on to say that a Resistance (of which all novas start with *at least* 4 dice) will help you combat it. It is even mentioned that the appropriate 'Life Support' (a mistake that was errata'd in the PG to mean Adaptability) would make you immune to disease (inless it was an actual nova attack, then it *may* not)

Page 213-214 is the Posion power. Talks about the 'virulence' of the disease you have just infected someone with. It goes on to say that the victim resists with Resistance (then compare the net successes). If the SC has a V-rating of 2, it is assumed to have 2 auto successes. Out of 4 dice, you would think that more people would be resisting this sucker.

Even if you dont want to consider it a disease, and consider it a drug (and it will be one or the other). It says on page 280 that you can resist nova-specific drugs at a difficulty penalty of +2. If it has a v-rating of 2, then if we stack them (which many people think 'attacks' shouldn't be able to do...if you consider it an attack) then you have to overcome a +4 difficulty.

In that case, you need 5 successes in order to make babies. *Most* nova's will have at least 5 resistance dice (3 resistance, 2 Stm). While it would probably be a bit rare, there is no reason that (within the rules set) there wouldent be nova babies everywhere. Its gotta be something that the writers cooked up 'cuz it was kool' and stopped 2nd gens (making them really really special).

On the subject of Detox, that does nothing for dealing with the underlying condition, it only lets you function ‘normally’ (meaning with your full die pool) before that condition is cured. Even if you interpret “Detox” to purge the drug itself from a novas bloodstream (that would be a big reach considering what it actually says), even this wouldn’t help since the SC’s effects last longer than the carrier drug.

On this point, you are right. I went back and re-read the extra and the power and I was mis-remembering them. Healing, however, *does* allow you to roll to resist diseases and drugs (when you suffer the effects of posions or diseases). It even gives you an extra dice per qp to do so. There is *no reason* other then the writers wanted something cool to talk about in the book that a good healing shouldent work for a normal (5 resistance) nova.

[Alex Green]

Its a question of the 'greater good' (so to speak).  Do you think that the great Mother Bounty would put the children at risk so easily?  Its not like the parents can't come back to have another one.  And its not like the parents keep the kids (they are left with Bounty, period).  I think that it would be reasonable to assume she would do that.  If she didn't then Protius (and every other world power) would start seeing things they dont like ('hey, these Nova's are having kids...so are these...and these...and they are all Terats...Bring 'em in for intense psychic probing and questioning boys!')

Are you claiming that Bounty sterilizes fertile novas? I.e. Novas who erupted as Terats (like the Count) and avoided the SC by avoiding everything Utopian?

Since this is off topic, I’ll just note that Terats are already hunted by the various world powers, and Bounty isn’t presented as someone who is manipulative enough to do this, or as someone who’d be willing to. We are also ignoring the issue of whether or not she actually could, where I’ll admit you are on somewhat firmer, but still debatable, ground.

I am saying that healing+detox should work in this case, but that the writers nix it.

Fair enough.

From the defenitions used in the AMB, and the powers in the book, there should be no reason that you cant be able to (fairly easily) get rid of the SC from your system. … Even if you dont want to consider it a disease, and consider it a drug (and it will be one or the other).

This reminds me of how it wasn’t possible to build Pax before the APG came out. We are missing some pieces to this puzzle. Good catch on calling it more of a disease than a poison BTW. It may be transmitted like a poison but the rewriting of DNA just screams “virus” to me.

I’m less sure about it having to be either a disease or a poison. Considering it bypasses standard (or Mega) stamina and adaptability, it appears to be cannon that it just *isn’t* a poison or a disease. And I agree this doesn’t make much sense, but like I said, it appears we are missing a piece to this puzzle.

Personally I think the SC is something that was either:

A) Brought back in time by Max and originally created by those nova studying aliens (the Coalition?)

Created originally by some poor tainted nova in Bahrain as a new “Element”. I.e. Elemental Mastery: SC. Like Eufiber, the SC appears to be a rule breaking substance so presumably you’d need EM to create it.

And I’ll admit I don’t have any evidence to back either of those up. But that is really a side note. However it was originally created, we have an idea of it’s properties and by passing normal nova disease resistance (and cures) appears to be one of them.

Healing, however,  *does* allow you to roll to resist diseases and drugs (when you suffer the effects of posions or diseases).  It even gives you an extra dice per qp to do so. 

Healing grants extra dice, but there is nothing about it granting a resistance roll to things that don’t normally have one. Healing isn’t the best power for this sort of thing, if you really want something that will counter any disease then there is a Level 4 power that does it.

[Nullifier]

The sterility cocktail itself, according to cannon, is a nova-derived drug with a permanent side effect. Like mox and adrenocilin and other drugs derived from, and designed for novas, it is powerful enough to bypass any level of resistence to drugs a nova may posses, short of the Health enhancement. Once affected by the drug, it would seem that the nova's reproductive DNA is changed in such a way as to make the nova's immune system believe that such cells are invaders in need of destroying. Apparently the drug is then purged from the nova's system like any other substance. The permenent effect it leves behind cannot be considered either a drug or a disease. Drugs are substances, and diseases are caused by either bactieria, viruses, or the person's own body. In all these cases, the effect is generally deleterious to the character's health over time and can be resisted normally with a resistence roll. Congenital defects and such, which are part of a character's DNA, aren't covered under this though, and the SC basically creates such a defect.

[Bahamut810]

Are you claiming that Bounty sterilizes fertile novas? I.e. Novas who erupted as Terats (like the Count) and avoided the SC by avoiding everything Utopian?

No, I am claiming that the ones that she made fertile she made sterilies. There is a difference between "Oh, there is one we havent gotten yet," and "Wait...she is pregnant? But we sterilized her already. And that other guy we already hit is fathering a kid? And that other woman we hit is pregnant? And they are all terats? Hmmm..."

I’m less sure about it having to be either a disease or a poison. Considering it bypasses standard (or Mega) stamina and adaptability, it appears to be cannon that it just *isn’t* a poison or a disease. And I agree this doesn’t make much sense, but like I said, it appears we are missing a piece to this puzzle.

The only thing is that, in game terms, stuff like this is either going to be a posion (and drugs fall under this, Mox and the like) or a Disease. There is not another 'category' that this could fall under. Just like there is Bashing, Lethal and Aggrivated damage. All damage will fall under one of these three categories. And (like I said before) it points that the SC is a Disease because it assigns it a veruleance rating. The only things that have thoes V-ratings are diseases.

The only real explanation there is for the SC being so different is that sometimes they may have special properties.

If you want to go with a nova making these through powers. I would say that it would be a nova with either Disease Authority (Q6), or the Pestilence technique from it. Suggesting that the nova would have it as a EM dosen't really fit. There are very few techniques that would fit with it.

With DA/Pestilence, on a Perc+Disease Authority roll (from p 122/123) it would take 4 (a v-rating of 2)+2 (Fertility Drugs)+2 (Nova resistance)+2 (Healing)+2 (Enhancements that dont specifiy the SC) -> 12 successes

In order to get that you would need someone with a score of 5 in Perc, M-perc and the power in question, and if you were lucky you could make it (avg would be about 9 successes if they drop a WP).

Healing grants extra dice, but there is nothing about it granting a resistance roll to things that don’t normally have one. Healing isn’t the best power for this sort of thing, if you really want something that will counter any disease then there is a Level 4 power that does it.

I would think it implies that you rolled resistance when you were healed (or right after it). If you take it *exactly* as written then a nova could heal a disease once (mabey) twice in his entire (extended) life. You get one resistance roll for a disease. And if that nova is not there the moment you catch it, he cant heal the disease. That means that a healing nova cant heal the common cold, the flu, chicken pox...what have you. They simply cant be there, 24/7 waiting to heal people. And thats if they have a special 'sickness' sense (like in D-authority). That makes a good portion of that power (that kicked it up to being a lvl 3 power) useless.

[Nullifier]

I hate being ignored. Please read my post above, Bahamut. The cocktail is initially a drug, with the permenent side effect of sterility cause by the drug's manipulation of the nova's DNA. The cocktail itself could be purged with Healing or Healing+Detox while it was still in the body, but once it runs its course, the damage is done and it's permenent. Once that happens, the effect is along the lines of a congenital defect. It's no longer a poison or disease, but a part of the character's DNA. That's why it can't be Healed, but can be fixed with the Health enhancement or the Body Manipulation power possesed by Gabriel Melchior and Bounty.

Makes sense, neh?

[Alex Green]

I would think it implies that you rolled resistance when you were healed (or right after it). If you take it *exactly* as written then a nova could heal a disease once (mabey) twice in his entire (extended) life. You get one resistance roll for a disease. And if that nova is not there the moment you catch it, he cant heal the disease. That means that a healing nova cant heal the common cold, the flu, chicken pox...what have you. They simply cant be there, 24/7 waiting to heal people. And thats if they have a special 'sickness' sense (like in D-authority). That makes a good portion of that power (that kicked it up to being a lvl 3 power) useless.

This is where the SC doesn’t act like a disease. Diseases are caused by Viruses, Prions, Bacteria, etc. The point is that if you eliminate all of the bacteria or whatever, the subject is cured.

The SC doesn’t work that way. By the time the Healer is brought in, the “disease” isn’t present any more. You can’t cure someone of the flu if they don’t have the flu any more. Nor can you give them another resistance roll against what the flu did to them, at this point it’s too late.

Like Nullifier was saying, at this point what you basically have is a birth defect.

[Bahamut810]

Re: Nullifier

Sorry about that, I am at work right now and it is taking me a bit to get these posted. Its not that I was ignoring you, its that I didnt know about your post.

Re DNA changes, and my high school years.

I dont think it works like that. If I remember my biology lessons correctly, DNA does not control that in the way you are suggesting. DNA is the base blueprint of the body. Antibodies (White Blood cells) are produced when the body finds something bad (Virus'). A child gains his white blood cells through a few methods. A few are transferred over inuterine (inside the womb), via breast milk, and through actually living through the disease (innoculation shots are actually weakened virus').

In order for this thing to work the way that is suggested, they would have to 'trick' a white blood cell into thinking that these things are virus'. Once it finds them as being bad, they would find a way to destroy them. I do think that this is something that healing would cover though, since it is a detremental effect that was not part of the original DNA (it is actually the opposite of what the DNA would be programming, i.e. using the bits and pieces to make babies).

Hmmm...When I get home tonight I think I am going to look into how all that works to refresh my memory.

[Alex Green]

On only a slightly different topic, I don't think Healing would be able to do anything about Bio-Manipulation's "Form Manipulation" (which would be why novas are immune to it).

Form Manipulation would (amoung other things) let you cure/create birth defects, restructure internal organs, and the like. It's scope is a lot higher than Healing, which I guess is fair because it's Q6 rather than Q4.

I wonder if you could gadget up a "Form Manipulation" effect that would affect novas?

[Nullifier]

It's not necessary to do anything to the white blood cells, all that is necessary is to alter the DNA of the gametes and the cells that produce them so that they produce a protein coat that white blood cells identify with bacteria and/or viruses. This would cause the white blood cells to attack the sperm, eggs, and the cells capable of producing them as if they were an infection.

I'd speculate the the so-called 'sterility cocktail' is actually a tailored retro-virus that re-writes the nova's DNA. It's quite plausible to do such things even with current science, not that anyone would do that unless they were genocidal butchers. Whatever you may think of Utopia and Proteus's noble ends, their means certainly leave a lot to be desired. ::devil

[Bahamut810]

It's not necessary to do anything to the white blood cells, all that is necessary is to alter the DNA of the gametes and the cells that produce them so that they produce a protein coat that white blood cells identify with bacteria and/or viruses. This would cause the white blood cells to attack the sperm, eggs, and the cells capable of producing them as if they were an infection.

←

You seem to have a much better grasp on this then I do. how does that affect eggs in the ovaries? A woman is born with thoes, they dont really grow the way that could be identified like that.

[Nullifier]

You seem to have a much better grasp on this then I do. how does that affect eggs in the ovaries? A woman is born with thoes, they dont really grow the way that could be identified like that.

They don't grow during the woman's lifetime, but they are living cells. As such, they'd be targeted and affected by the retro-virus just like the sperm cells. Although it's possible that a combination of two to four viruses are used to target individual types of cells like the sperm and eggs and the cells capable of producing them. That's the really difficult part anyhow, the vectoring of the viruses to only affect the gametes and their producers. That's all if that's what they used to induce sterility, of course. It seems the most likely explanation to me though, using current scientific techniques.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

A few random/unrelated points...

-Not exactly on topic but it apears Psion healing would get around SC so long as the cocktail wasn't in the nova's body long enough to become part of their body's signature.

-Seeing as how agressive and effiecient nova healing/immune system is (with or without enhancements) I wonder if a high stamina characters immune system would recognise SC's intended properties and stomp it before it can do it's job.

-Something else, it seems for the sterility cocktail to do it's thing (if it wasn't made by a power) it would need to be attuned or at least sequenced specifically for individual novas. I could almost see a PU van/ambulance with the necessary gear to quickly test the 'victim/patient' and program the cocktail for them.

-Since might is illegal and made in backyard labs I can't see it possessing sterility properites, SC is too advanced to replicate even if it's in the original recipe that the manufacturers got their hands on.

[phoenix]

They don't grow during the woman's lifetime..

Be careful with your turn of phrase, no need to turn this into a women's rights debate if we don't have to.. ::wink

-Not exactly on topic but it apears Psion healing would get around SC so long as the cocktail wasn't in the nova's body long enough to become part of their body's signature.

Agreed, but most psions taking nova drugs are doing so because they think they are novas, and are most likely about to suffer a lot worse than a lifetime of safe sex as a result..

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Lol not what I meant... I was reffering to latrosis being used on a nova, asside from making the nova violently ill, I don't see why it wouldn't repair the damage done by SC if anything the disruption of quantum (going on one of the above descriptions of the drug) would make it easier to restore.

[Nullifier]

I don't think it'd really need to be tailored to the specific nova. Also, even with high mega-stamina, with the virus piggy-backed on drugs made specifically to affect novas it'd be extremely effective. Drugs like mox and adrenocilin can't be resisted even with high mega-stamina without the Health enhancement, and I'd imagine that anything delievered along with them would be similarly effective on novas. As for where it is administered, PU p.110:

...adrenocilin carries a hidden birth control agent that activates as your node channels quantum energy.

[Alex Green]

Hmm. Thus Psiads and even baselines would be immune. Ditto Dorm 5.

[Blue Thunder]

You know, I don't even think White Wolf thought this hard on the subject...

[Bahamut810]

After reading a bit on the gametes and such, and thought about it a bit this is what I have come to think about this based on changing the actual DNA and such. If there is a flaw in my understanding, please tell me (Im a mechanical person, not a biological one).

1. Female.

Process:

The SC actually enters the ovaries and changes the base structure (DNA) of the 'eggs'.

Ending the effect:

This would *perminently* make a woman barren as the WBCs would be able to enter the Ovaries and take out all the eggs.

Reparing the Damage:

Unless you could actually force the eggs to regrow or change the makeup of the eggs (like Bounty can) there would be no coming back. Dont pass go. Dont collect $200.

2. Male.

Process:

The SC enters the testicles and changes the process of which they produces sperm.

The Ending the effect:

Changing the process of which the sperm is made enough to allow more to regrow and not be massacred.

Reparing the Damage:

Chaning the testes back to what they were before, or change them enough so that they create sperm that can grow more

Re: Nova Drugs

I went and was double checking about the drugs (and not being able to resist them). You *can resist them. On p280 (AMB) it says nova-specific drugs (such as Mox and Adrenocilin) can be resisted (if the nova wants) with a diff of +2. Double checking the individual drugs shows nothing about them being resistant resistant (if you catch my drift). Does it say elsewhere that you can't soak them?

Thats one of the things that really gets me about this. If it is a drug, then they should get a resistance roll on it (difficult +2). If it is a disease (which is what it would have to be) then there is really no way they could have it as early as they did (they need a person with disease authority and a great dice pool, then get at least 12 successes). This is totally from the left field, and makes it seem like they added it just to get people mad at Utopia. Kinda like Divis "he has anything he needs at any time" Mal, but with less reason.

[Alex Green]

1. Female.

Process:

The SC actually enters the ovaries and changes the base structure (DNA) of the 'eggs'.

Ending the effect:

This would *perminently* make a woman barren as the WBCs would be able to enter the Ovaries and take out all the eggs.

Reparing the Damage:

Unless you could actually force the eggs to regrow or change the makeup of the eggs (like Bounty can) there would be no coming back. Dont pass go. Dont collect $200.

True for a baseline, but novas heal damage baselines can’t. This specifically includes aggravated damage and things like optic nerves. I see no reason why missing eggs wouldn’t be included in that package.

2. Male.

Agreed.

Re: Nova Drugs

I went and was double checking about the drugs (and not being able to resist them). You *can resist them. On p280 (AMB) it says nova-specific drugs (such as Mox and Adrenocilin) can be resisted (if the nova wants) with a diff of +2. Double checking the individual drugs shows nothing about them being resistant (if you catch my drift). Does it say elsewhere that you can't soak them?

Thats one of the things that really gets me about this. If it is a drug, then they should get a resistance roll on it (difficult +2).

But you can’t turn down one without turning down the other. You are a newly erupted nova. You have Mega-Stamina 5. You are in a lot of pain and/or want to practice using your powers. The doctor gives you some Andies/Mox. Now, if you choose to make a resistance roll, sure, you get 13 dice to throw at it and only need a single success. But how many people are going to try to make that roll? Worse, if you do make that roll, then the only thing that might happen is the Doc ups the dosage and purity of the drug, thus increasing your Difficulty until you don’t make that roll.

And that’s with standard rules. Moving to non-standard rules.

1) I’ve played in games with the *very* newly erupted and sometimes the ST rules that you *don’t* have access to all your powers (including Mega-Stats) during the clinic time, i.e. when you start to think about what you are doing.

2) And this also assumes that you get a resistance check for the SC. I’d say the ST is well within his rights to deny you a roll unless you have a defense of some sort (that Mega-Perception self awareness enhancement for example).

[Nullifier]

I think Alex is right, it's not like most novas choose to resist the drugs, why would they? As to the difference between diseases and drugs, I'm not sure that in terms of stuff designed to overcome nova's natural resistance to such things there is much of difference.

[Alex Green]

Different Question:

Is there something in Trinity that says that drugs stopped affecting Aberrants in the 2030's?

[phoenix]

I'm a mechanical person, not a biological one.

Really. ::wink ::blink

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Different Question:

Is there something in Trinity that says that drugs stopped affecting Aberrants in the 2030's?

←

Don't think so, just the usual "these guys are superresistant blah blah blah" that was said about all aberrants.

Re:Mechanical person... now where's that cylon emoticon....

Ahhh there it is!

[Psilord]

There is another possibility to defeat the sterility drug than just the Health (STA)enhancement.

In Brainwaves there are two enhancements that combined should be able to do the trick:

Body Awareness (PER) would detect the drug.....

& Mind Over Matter (WIT) would allow the nova to stop his/her immune response from reacting to the reproductive cells as pathogens.

Thinking about it, Mind Over Matter could possibly be enough on its own, just stopping the immune response. This would be especially true if the nova could keep the enhancement active all the time.

Otherwise a female would have to get pregnant while the enhancement was active, and would have to do so before any serious effect of the drug (loss of all her eggs). A male could possible be fully affected and then activate the Mind OVer Matter enhancement for an extended period to allow new sperm to grow and then sire a child.

[metaphysician]

Old thread, but heh, new comments:

Yeah, there's a bunch of ways the SC could be avoided and resisted, but the Project Utopia book ( IIRC ) mentions such. Apparently, one Proteus function is keeping an eye out for novas that *aren't* effected by it. Fortunately for them, the typical reason for immunity is "no more physiology," and people made of stone can't usually reproduce anyway.

As for how they could have such a potent and permanent drug, well, part of the potency is that it hijacks the immune system to do its dirty work, so the fact that novas have potent healing processes and such is, in fact, necessary for the SC to work. Or, put simply, having a strong immune system doesn't stop autoimmune conditions. How they made it, well, put the blame on the Aeon Society, as they certainly have access to supergenius novas even before Galatea. Who knows, maybe Aeon started designing the SC shortly after WWII and Primoris' first attempt to force global eruption. . .

[Alex Green]

We do a lot with this in the new fan book.

[metaphysician]

Which one, The New Flesh?