Aberrant: Cognizant Chimera - Cognizant Chimera - The Early Years...

[Alex Green]

Matt says, "She was definately one of the 'live life to the fullest' types. I could see her doing anything from being in the middle of nowhere on a boat to being passed out under a table in a bar somewhere."

"She was stronger and tougher than normal and not an innocent. She could take care of herself. But she didn't have a lot of money. I'd think she would have shown up here if she could."

[Heritage]

The limo has been parked across from the Ritz-Carlton for some time now; the driver is dozing in the front seat, a copy of the Sun-Times opened to the sports section on his chest. He is startled out of his light sleep by the crackle of the passenger intercom behind his right ear, and he quickly attempts to straighten his jacket and tie.

I'm sorry, ma'am, what was the question? ::unsure

The soft female voice once again crackles through the speaker.

I said how long has it been? Since we've pulled up here?

He grinds his palms into his eyes, fishes out his cellphone from his breast pocket, and checks the internal clock.

I make it, uh, twenty minutes? We did get here a little early.

There is a thoughtful silence from behind the dark glass partition.

I'd still be late, and I hate to be late - sets a bad precedent and all that.

There is a resigned sigh.

Alright, I'm going to do this - I'm going in. Wish me luck, LeRon.

The driver grins and shakes his head.

Good luck, Miss de Havilland - knock 'em dead, and all that shit.

There's an odd snorting laugh from the intercom ::laugh

'All that shit' is exactly what I'm afraid of, but thanks - I'll call you when I need you. Go grab some breakfast, enjoy yourself.

Thank you, doctor, I will.

The rear passenger door opens, and a striking young blonde woman steps out, wearing a soft blue dress, vintage diamond earrings and elegant open-toed shoes. Somewhat incongruously, she's wearing a Chicago Cubs baseball cap, under which most of her hair is tucked - a few stray strands wave in the air, moving and flashing in the sunlight. A pair of oversized sunglasses is perched on her nose, and a vintage handbag is over her bare left shoulder. LeRon pokes his head out of the passenger side window.

I'll send your bags over when I get the word from you, Miss D.

Dr. Estelle de Havilland turns from her contemplation of the hotel, a warm and rather lopsided smile on her face.

Thanks again, LeRon, for putting up with my nonsense - I'll see you soon. ::smile

The limo pulls off, and Estelle strides purposefully across the street, nimbly dodging taxis and bicycle messengers as she goes; she's about 5' 5" and obviously in good physical shape, with large hazel eyes and lightly tanned skin. When she gets inside the lobby, Estelle spots Teddy and the sign and heads in his direction, a look of embarrassed exasperation on her beautiful face.

Excuse me, I'm Doctor Estelle de Havilland? I received an invitation from Mr. Fox to attend today, but at the time I declined - would it be possible for you to ring his room for me please? I seem to have had a change of heart ::wink ::biggrin

[ProfPotts]

"While I'm supremely honored by the offer, Mike 2, I know what I consider a hands on examination is light years away from yours and I don't believe I'm woman enough for what you have in mind. We are 'collegues' now. Professionalism in the work place and all that."

The second Michael smiles,

"So you do have powers: to read my mind or know the future? I'm no psychologist, Doctor, but I'd imagine your own presumptions say more about you than they do about me..." ::sly

Stepping back he spreads his arms wide & shrugs ::halo ,

"In any case - you may be here for a job, but I'm no man's employee - the rules I follow are my own, as are my own standards of 'professional conduct'. On that score I've had no complaints yet." ::devil

"Besides, Mike, I don't poach... ever."

Both Michael's can't help but laugh out loud ::laugh ::biggrin ,

"Oh - we can invite Kat & Syn along if you want, Doctor - in fact I'm sure they'd both love to see you in action..." ::devil ::wink

... But I already have something that I'd like to propose for our first case, investigation, or whatever you want to call it. The disappearance of Martha Cross..."

Both Michaels look interested at the mention of Martha, but leave the speculating to the others - fully expecting Xander to expand upon his comment before long.

[tooho]

Both Michael's can't help but laugh out loud ,

"Oh - we can invite Kat & Syn along if you want, Doctor - in fact I'm sure they'd both love to see you in action..."

::blush "That's as likely of happening, Mike, as my skin breaking out into blue scales."

Clearing her throat quickly, Mandy shakes her head and turns her back to the room as she grabs herself some coffee. ::rolleyes

Purposefully avoiding looking at Mike, she taps her toe as she considers Xander's proposal. "Hmmm, she seemed familiar with Mr. Jackson, Could be he might know where she planned to go. Have you had any contact with him, Mr Foxx? Either way, its a simple matter to start checking the local hospitals and see if an accident has been registered with a woman fitting her description if he hasn't a direction for us to look."

[Heritage]

Estelle pokes her head into the room, still wearing her Cubs cap, peering over the top of her oversized shades.

Is this where all the cool people are hanging out? ::wink Sorry I'm late, especially seeing as I said I wasn't even going to show up and all. ::blush

The gorgeous young blonde closes the door behind her and steps smartly over to the group, smiling and nodding to each in turn.

Hello, I'm Doctor Estelle de Havilland, fresh off the plane from Harvard's Artificial Intelligence Research Group. And I'm here...because of this-

She somewhat dramatically pulls off her cap, releasing a cascade of shimmering blonde tresses that tumble past her tanned shoulders, seeming to fall almost in slow motion as the golden curls finally come to rest most of the way down her toned back. She shakes her head a bit, and it seems that a lustrous shine glows from within each individual strand - the play of light is almost hypnotically beautiful. Estelle looks up with her big hazel eyes and shrugs.

It's all about the hair. ::blush ::biggrin

[Alex Green]

Matt gives a big smile, a half bow, and says, "Isn't it always." ::wub

"I'm Matt. Pleased to meet you." ::wub

[Bahamut810]

William looks over. "Welcome to our little sworee. Please, sit. We are finding out our beloved investors ulterior motive right now."

He smiles, giving a playful wink to Mr. Fox.

[Heritage]

Matt gives a big smile, a half bow, and says, "Isn't it always."

"I'm Matt. Pleased to meet you."

Estelle curtsies to Matt with a slightly over-the-top hand flourish, then snorts with laughter as she shakes his hand.

Hi, Matt, it's nice to meet you, too ::laugh

William looks over. "Welcome to our little sworee. Please, sit. We are finding out our beloved investors ulterior motive right now."

The blonde nova gets her first good look at William, and a little jolt runs through her whole frame; suddenly her long hair twitches and comes to life! ::shocked The strands slide and twist upwards on top of Estelle's head, working themselves into an extremely elegant hairstyle that displays her graceful neck and shoulders to best effect, though Estelle herself seems almost oblivious to the change.

Um...wow! ::blink You must be one of the good-looking ones! ::wub ::biggrin

She nervously fiddles with the spaghetti strap of her dress, and realizes that her hair is now up.

Hah! It, it keeps doing that - the hair. ::blush Do...do you like it? Up, like this? ::bigsmile

[Bahamut810]

William smiles, trying not to let her looks phase him. "Something like that. It looks nice. Why dont you pull up a chair?"

[tooho]

"Would you like a cup of coffee, Doctor de Havilland?" Smiling a bit in amazement at the elegant coiffure, Mandy beams gratitude at the woman and her stunning appearance. ::biggrin

"I'm Dr. Amanda Hughes but call me Mandy. We were actually discussing the possible disappearance of a nova acquaintance that we expected to be here. It seems there was an attempt to kidnap Mr. Fox while he was incapacitated at a hospital. They tried to ferret him off to another location, and we are worried there is a possibility someone may have overwhelmed Ms. Martha Cross for similar reasons."

Leaning back against a wall, Mandy crosses her feet at the ankles and lightly wraps her arms around her stomach. "It seems to me, Xander is suggestioning we work together. A lot of the people here have very unique abilities and together there doesn't seem there is much you can not do." ::wink

[Heritage]

William smiles, trying not to let her looks phase him. "Something like that. It looks nice. Why dont you pull up a chair?"

Estelle shakes herself awake and nods.

I'd love to. ::smile

She approaches the table, then frowns and starts absently digging through her purse.

Wait a second, where did I put that stupid...

Two thick braids of hair snake free from her 'do, stretch several feet ahead of her, wrap around the back of a chair and pull it towards her; she takes the seat without even looking up, and the fibrous pseudopodia slip effortlessly back into place. Estelle finally tosses the purse on the table with mild frustration.

Ah, it's not important right now anyway.

"Would you like a cup of coffee, Doctor de Havilland?" Smiling a bit in amazement at the elegant coiffure, Mandy beams gratitude at the woman and her stunning appearance.

Oh, yes please! I cannot live without coffee! ::biggrin Extra cream, extra sugar, if you're pouring, thanks.

"I'm Dr. Amanda Hughes but call me Mandy. We were actually discussing the possible disappearance of a nova acquaintance that we expected to be here. It seems there was an attempt to kidnap Mr. Fox while he was incapacitated at a hospital. They tried to ferret him off to another location, and we are worried there is a possibility someone may have overwhelmed Ms. Martha Cross for similar reasons."

The beautiful nova smiles back at her.

And you can call me Stelle. And how nice to meet another blonde with a doctorate, laying waste to the myth. ::wink

Stelle then turns more serious.

To be honest, I'm not surprised - I expect we'll see a lot more disappearances of this type in the years to come. We're just too damn new and interesting to be left alone by the more unscrupulous sorts of the world. I suppose the big question is who wants us more - criminals, corporations, or the shadowy corners of our own government? Or who knows, maybe some random whack-job or fringe cultist. Could this Martha put up a decent fight?

Leaning back against a wall, Mandy crosses her feet at the ankles and lightly wraps her arms around her stomach. "It seems to me, Xander is suggestioning we work together. A lot of the people here have very unique abilities and together there doesn't seem there is much you can not do." ::wink

Stelle by this time has gotten an eyeful of Michael and the other handsome lads in the room, and a golden lock is playfully fanning her face.

My goodness, I certainly came into the right conference room - I would come up with the feeblest excuse to work with this fine assembly! ::devil

She turns back to Mandy.

Sorry, I don't mean to make light of the situation, and I would really like to help.

She then addresses the entire room.

I'm still learning to use my powers, what Doogie back at the lab referred to as 'focus-based telekinetics', although I expect that's a fancy term for "I don't know how it works, either" ::sly In addition, I have rather a lot of money myself, and I'm willing to commit what resources I can.

Stelle smiles, and it's a big, goofy lopsided thing.

It's been said that outside of school, I've never done an honest day's work in my life - maybe it's high time I did something about that ::biggrin

[tooho]

Holding the coffee pot halfway over the cup, Mandy freezes as she watches the golden locks pull the chair out for Stelle. She seems frozen till the coffee wavers and she feels the splash on her fingers. Quickly pouring and adding the cream and sugar she cleans her hands self-consciously. Quite amused, she attempts to look put upon and tugs a lock of hair jokingly while sitting the cup in front of Stelle. "Its such a chore having a brain." ::rolleyes

To be honest, I'm not surprised - I expect we'll see a lot more disappearances of this type in the years to come. We're just too damn new and interesting to be left alone by the more unscrupulous sorts of the world. I suppose the big question is who wants us more - criminals, corporations, or the shadowy corners of our own government? Or who knows, maybe some random whack-job or fringe cultist. Could this Martha put up a decent fight?

"Martha wasn't one to put on lady-like airs. She was quite the down-home girl and it seemed to me she was very... fit." A little lost in thought, she seems to nod absently as Estelle continues.

[doofus me forgot to be clear]

[Heritage]

Holding the coffee pot halfway over the cup, Mandy freezes as she watches the golden locks pull the chair out for Stelle. She seems frozen till the coffee wavers and she feels the splash on her fingers. Quickly pouring and adding the cream and sugar she cleans her hands self-consciously. Quite amused, she attempts to look put upon and tugs a lock of hair jokingly while sitting the cup in front of Stelle.

"Its such a chore having a brain." ::rolleyes

Stelle looks slightly pained when Mandy has her little mishap, but smiles when she jokes about it. The blonde nova cocks her head to one side and puts on her most vacuous expression.

I know! Like, it's like this one gross guy I dated sophomore year once said?

She stops, then screws up her eyes comically.

Um, what was the question again? And is that, like, a Prada backpack, 'cause I am so into Prada this year! ::tongue

She laughs a loud snorting laugh, and then reaches to take the coffee; her hand briefly grasps Mandy's, and she offers her a warm sincere smile.

Thank you. ::biggrin

She leans in a little close and almost whispers.

I know it's hard...with the everything. ::blush

Stelle shrugs.

Give it time. ::smile

[Bahamut810]

William smiles at the small exchange between the two, but frowns when they start whispering.

"Now, now ladies. Save the secrets for *after* the meeting. Im sure some of us can hear you." he says with a wink.

[Archer21]

Eyebrow raised slightly as the blondes chatter back and forth, Brandt waits till they're finished and raises a hand. "Um. I don't suppose we know anyone that this Martha was close to? Family members, friends, et cetera? Has someone even verified she's actually been reported missing by any sort of authority, or is this just one huge assumption?"

He looks at the host, hands raised defensively. "No offense. I'd rather avoid chasing the proverbial wild goose."

[Heritage]

William smiles at the small exchange between the two, but frowns when they start whispering.

"Now, now ladies. Save the secrets for *after* the meeting. Im sure some of us can hear you." he says with a wink.

Stelle looks slightly embarrassed, and flutters her hands apologetically.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be all secretive - just, y'know, personal. ::blush

Eyebrow raised slightly as the blondes chatter back and forth, Brandt waits till they're finished and raises a hand. "Um. I don't suppose we know anyone that this Martha was close to? Family members, friends, et cetera? Has someone even verified she's actually been reported missing by any sort of authority, or is this just one huge assumption?"

He looks at the host, hands raised defensively. "No offense. I'd rather avoid chasing the proverbial wild goose."

The blonde nova looks on with interest as Brandt speaks, then turns to Xavier expectantly.

[malkboy]

Xander looks at the group and shakes his head, "She didn't just run off... If you stop to think about it, my detectives found everyone else here but her. If we don't want to look into the disappearence, that's fine. I'm not going to be a dictator, I'm just going to help pay the bills."

Xander smiles at Doctor de Havilland, "I'm glad, by the way, that you changed your mind."

Looking over the group assembled in the conference room, Xander rubs his neck just before speaking again, "Look, what we need to do if we are going to form a group is establish some base rules, what we want to do to better the political and social climate that we live in, and finally we need to figure out what we want to call ourselves. I'm going to start with the name, so why doesn't everyone throw something in the pot, starting with.. William."

(Sorry about the delay, but life happened en force in addition to some writer's block after the holidays...)

[Bahamut810]

"Well...thats putting me on the spot..."

He majestically stands up, smileing at the group. Something about him appeals to everyone...almost like an old friend.

"It all really depends on how large we want to start. Most if not all of us are American from the looks of it...so we could start small if you want. Clean up crime in Detroit...or New York. Im not sure what powers you all have, but if we can do soemthing *major* I think that I could get the positive news coverage we need for it...with Mr. Fox's help of course. The faster we can show that we are a positive change...the better."

he nods slightly, and takes a breath then goes on. "I would say first order of business should be to find Martha. She sounds sympathetic to our type of cause. The more of us to help, the better."

He pauses before he continues, "As for a name, its hard to say. If we want to be a benefit we will need a name that has peaceful conontations to it. We also want to stay away from taking Mr. Fox's companies name into it...it would make us seem like a puppet orginisation. People are very suspecious of them. We also want to stay away from anything that would make us sound like we think we are superior to other people. Super-folk of Fox Enterprises is right out. It also need to have something to do with our goal...but cant include actually unifying the world....Hmmm...Im not sure what our name should be quite yet. But ill keep thinking about it." He almost trails off as if in thought towards the end (in a very cute way, to thoes ladiesi n the audience).

"Sorry to take the floor so much...who wants to be next?" He says humbily, and sits down.

[ProfPotts]

The Mikes' attentions have obviously been captivated by the arrival of Stelle... & it doesn't take a telepath to figure out the sort of things which are running through their minds as they contemplate the woman, her powers... & the sort of fun they could have with her...

I'm still learning to use my powers, what Doogie back at the lab referred to as 'focus-based telekinetics', although I expect that's a fancy term for "I don't know how it works, either...

The Mikes frown for just a moment as they contemplate that statement - tele-kinesis means, after all, moving things at a distance... & kinky as the hair thing is, it appears, so far, to be firmly attatched to the lady... But the thought doesn't linger for long - after all, this 'Doogie' could well be a total gimboid... Yeah, that was it... she just needs a real man (or two...)... Maybe she has prehensile hair in other places... ::wink

... The Mike's shake their heads in unison as they try to focus on what's being said...

"Look, what we need to do if we are going to form a group is establish some base rules, what we want to do to better the political and social climate that we live in, and finally we need to figure out what we want to call ourselves. I'm going to start with the name, so why doesn't everyone throw something in the pot, starting with.. William."

One of the Mike's snorts at Xander's comments,

"Rules? Names? Come on people - do we really want our first actions as a group to be to a headlong dive into the world of the mundane? We're living examples of the rules being broken guys - let's not cripple ourselves before we even begin. If we're going down that path, we might as well just go work for Uncle Sam & his secret police! Let's just decide what needs to be done & get on & do it. We don't need to mess about with any outmoded 'frameworks' - let's just get stuff done already."

Shaking his head the bat-winged man stands & starts to pace,

"Let's take our missing friend for example - simple question: can any of us find her? Did anyone gain any talents which can be used like that? If yes, then just do it already - if no, then why are we wasting our time talking about stuff that ol' money bags here can do better by throwing cash at - he can hire an army of professional investigators to track her down, right? No rules, no names, no messing about - just need & action. Get it done, people, get it done."

[Bahamut810]

William smiles slightly and nods at Mike.

"Thats what we are tying to do, Mike. Figure out what to do. Orginisation should be the key though. We need to *look* unified in order to be *considered* unified. To be taken seriously as a group of people who want to help...we do have to conform, at least a little. I dont think the world would take 'that one bunch of guys' very seriously when we offer our help. Thats the entire point in the name. I do appreciate what you are saying though...but from what I have seen in the political arena some things need to be taken slowly and some thing do need to be taken the way they have been taken before. I know it can be frustrating to have to wait for the right time. And I know it can be even more frustrating to have to do the 'same old, same old' but there are times that it has to be done so that we dont meet any major resistance."

He nods slightly as he says this last part.

"Look at cleaning up crime for instance. If we just go and, without at least telling the local authorities, start beating up the bad guys and confirming that they are bad guys...we could get arrested for assult, kidnapping and if we arent careful even Murder 1. Not only that, but the government will start searching for people wiht this or that power, and arresting them. They will be able to pass an ammendment to have us all arrested as a danger to society fairly quickly. Im sure that no one will *mind* us doing that...but people need to know we are. And need to konw that we are all on the same side. Im really sorry if you dont like doing it that way, but sometimes it *has* to be done if we want to make a positive impact."

He smiles and hopeing that mike understands.

"As for *our* rules as a group...how about we put off on making them...and take it one day at a time. We will need a 'constitution', but we will make sure its pretty vague for what we need to do. Mr. Fox and I can do that with whoever wants to help, so we can just talk about that later. Is that alright, everyone? Just make a rallying banner and our first goal today?"

[Heritage]

Estelle, somewhat surprised by the tone of the meeting she's stepped into, holds up her hands in a warding gesture.

Whoa, whoa! This is...amazing; I had no idea of the scope we were looking at, but perhaps that was just my shortsightedness. And here I was a imaging some sort of lame self-help group - "Yes, I have superpowers, but nothing makes sense anymore!" ::tongue

She rubs her delicate chin thoughtfully.

Obviously I don't know what all of you are capable of - I'm still figuring out my own strengths and limitations. Still, we have these abilities, and as nice as it would be to use them to save buses full of screaming children and help little old ladies across the street, it would mean so much more if we could be proactive instead of reactive. Personally, I've always felt the only real way to combat crime was to give everyone better access to education and opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily work for those who are already profiting from someone else's misery.

She looks around the room, her beautiful hazel eyes taking in everyone, including both Mike's intense scrutiny. ::unsure

Uh, maybe we should write up a list of humanity's ills, the ones we can all agree on? Match them up with our strengths and weaknesses, and see how we can best apply ourselves? Personally, I think my access to large piles of cash might be more useful that my powers - I can control my hair, pick up several hundred pounds with it, and use it to control computers. I guess I could pick up bad guys and shake them until they promise to be good, but that might take several years to acheive any real change. ::rolleyes

[ProfPotts]

... I guess I could pick up bad guys and shake them until they promise to be good, but that might take several years to acheive any real change.

Both bat-winged men grin, as one says,

"Yeah - & some of them might actually like it..." ::wink

His expression(s) turning serious once more, the other Mike then gestures towards William,

"He's right, as far as crime is concerned, though - I've been beating the snot out of the local hoods where I live in LA recently. The people don't have any issues with what I do: after all, being able to walk the streets without being in fear of your life is generally seen as a good thing; but the do-gooders & political types are all over me. One of the reasons I turned up here was 'cos my girlfriend told me I might need some sort of legal aid pretty soon - she's in law school, she knows about that sort of stuff."

The Mike who's speaking shrugs - the movement being transfered into a shifting of his impressive leathery wings,

"As far as I'm concerned I just want a free hand to stop the punks who need to be stopped, but it seems like that isn't gonna' happen - or even be enough in the long run."

Nodding towards Estelle he continues,

"Rapunzel probably has a good point about education & stuff, but I reackon it goes even deeper than that - our whole culture is messed up. We live in a socio-economic group built on a hierarchical pyramid model - & we all know that shit rolls down hill. The system is designed for the rich to get richer - & for everyone else to go feck themselves. If we just go round cleaning up the mess left by our culture, then all we do is promote that flawed culture to continue. We need to make serious changes to the whole ball of wax if we're really gonna' make the world a better place."

Mike shakes his head,

"Can't we... I dunno'... redistribute the wealth of the world or something? Or, at least, get our resident politico here elected so that he can introduce fair trade policies or something?"

[Alex Green]

Matt says, “Fair trade” and “Redistributing the wealth” mean different things to different people, have been tried before, give the government way too much power, and end up being distorted so whoever is on top stays on top. Mostly that could only be done at gun point and you do NOT want to see what a serious disruption or forcible reorganization of culture looks like. We call them wars and no matter how just the cause, the result is the innocent burn and the strong run amok.”

“Cleaning up messes has potential though. I mean… if we stop all crime, or even just all organized crime, then that’s such a huge thing that culture will change around it. If we come up with cleaner sources of power or clean up the environment then ditto. A flawed culture without the flaws isn’t a flawed culture.”

“Just off hand, there are lots of barrels of really deadly radioactive waste around at those nuke plants. Nevada has the political pull to stop it from being dumped or stored where it won’t hurt anyone, so it’s stored at the plants themselves, like on the shore of Lake Michigan. That’s a problem, sooner or later lots of people are going to die. We could fix that right now. Six or so of us go over, I use your energies to turn the stuff into free flowing electrons. Presto, Nuclear power without the nuclear waste.”

[Bahamut810]

"That may be a good start. Something non-violent to show our goodwill. I'm not sure about the actual *science* about it though...I dont know how much resistance we would run into right there. What exactly can you do with toxic waste? If we open a place in Nevada that can neutralise the effects of the waiste that would go a long way in giving us credibilty to do other things...like getting authority to clean up street crime."

He takes a note pad out of his jacket pocket and a pencil.

"Ok...Right now our main goal is the betterment of...the United States or the World? The United States would be much easer for us right now considering there are very few of us. Once we can get more in our number...we can expand if we so desire."

[ProfPotts]

“Cleaning up messes has potential though. I mean… if we stop all crime, or even just all organized crime, then that’s such a huge thing that culture will change around it. If we come up with cleaner sources of power or clean up the environment then ditto. A flawed culture without the flaws isn’t a flawed culture.”

Mike shakes his head,

"I don't see that happening. If we sort out the problems, then the causes of those problems can just keep on doing whatever it is they're doing anyway at the moment. You talk about clean sources of power - the world already has those: with technology proven to be clean, safe, & plentiful enough for everyone... it's just that the big fossel fuel companies don't want to be out of pocket, so their puppet governments don't change the rules, & those clean sources of energy are ignored in favour of the old, dirty, but expensive ones instead. Same goes for why the first world countries keep the third world countries economically opressed."

“Just off hand, there are lots of barrels of really deadly radioactive waste around at those nuke plants. Nevada has the political pull to stop it from being dumped or stored where it won’t hurt anyone, so it’s stored at the plants themselves, like on the shore of Lake Michigan. That’s a problem, sooner or later lots of people are going to die. We could fix that right now. Six or so of us go over, I use your energies to turn the stuff into free flowing electrons. Presto, Nuclear power without the nuclear waste.”

Again Mike shakes his head,

"That's a good example of what I mean - if we get rid of the waste for them, then Nevada's rich rulers just sit back happy that they've been proved right - that their NIMBY policy was justified. No-one changes their attitude, nothing gets better - we just end up with a full-time job disposing of nuclear waste."

"That may be a good start. Something non-violent to show our goodwill. I'm not sure about the actual *science* about it though...I dont know how much resistance we would run into right there. What exactly can you do with toxic waste? If we open a place in Nevada that can neutralise the effects of the waiste that would go a long way in giving us credibilty to do other things...like getting authority to clean up street crime."

Mike sighs,

"Why don't you just get elected president already, then enact some legislation which the people will like, but the big military-industrial fat-cats won't? The only reason polititians don't do that now, don't do what's best for the people, is because they need those fat-cats on-side to get elected in the first place. You don't. You could enact real, helpful, policies. Like banning firearms, getting rid of fossel-fuels, making sure people used safer, electrically powered, cars - stuff like that. All that needs to come down from the top - from the guys who make the big choices - but never will whilst those who benefit from the sale of guns & gas are the king-makers."

"Ok...Right now our main goal is the betterment of...the United States or the World? The United States would be much easer for us right now considering there are very few of us. Once we can get more in our number...we can expand if we so desire."

The Mike who's been doing all the talking slams his hands down on the table (probably cracking it in the process...),

"No! If we're still thinking in terms of 'us' or 'them', one country or the whole world, then we're not getting anywhere. This is what I'm trying to say, people - if we're gonna' make any changes, the first thing we need to change is our own perceptions of stuff like this. Those boundries are artificial constructs of a limited society - limits we appear to be overcoming. We don't have to play by the rules, guys - that's the beauty of the opportunity we have. William doesn't need to play all those games of double-dealing & back-stabbing to get into elected office. That's a sort of freedom which has never been available before. For us the 'rules' are an out-moded way of thinking. We need to brush them aside & really explore what we can do for this planet."

[Bahamut810]

William frowns.

"You assume that I hold sway over the minds of men. Just because people like me...no matter how much...dosent mean I can make them do things. I dont want to *force* people to do what I want. Positive change takes time. People have to warm to the idea's...they have to accept the change. Even if you have the power to ignore the rules, that dosent mean that you should. If I wanted Im sure I could start taking advantage of anyone I wanted. I could marry rich old woman after rich old woman till I was a *billionaire*. I know that that is wrong though, so I dont."

He leans back in his chair and bridges his fingers.

"I know it must be frusterating to have to wait. I can tell that you are a man of *action*. Unfortunatly to make the difference we want to make...we need time to do it and we need cooperation from the *world*. Not everyone will agree with us even if it would be in their best interests. Forcing change on people will only cause dissent. Even *I* cant become president tommorrow if I wanted. Though we can start the process if you want."

[Alex Green]

Matt says to Mike (and everyone),

“Next election isn’t for years and William probably won’t be ready till the one after that, if ever. I’ve been to Nevada, the leaders reflect the people, at least for this. Everyone in Nevada hates the idea of a nuke waste dump. Everyone there is a NIMBY. Which leaves all that atomic waste on the shore of lake Michigan just waiting to contaminate millions.”

“I’m in favor of alternative energy, but it isn’t on the table right now and I don’t see a way to change that. We could go to Michigan tomorrow. It wouldn’t commit us to doing it forever for the whole industry. It would be something like a PR stunt, and something like a free sample. It would show the world we can come up with new, unusual solutions for the common good on really hard problems. If we do it right we might even make a couple of million off of them and get some operating capital.”

“I’m open to other ideas if you have any of that thinking outside the rules business, but if we try to ‘redistribute wealth’ people are going to start shooting at us."

"Also," Matt continues with a smile, "I grew up in gun country. Back home, everyone owned a gun, everyone was a hunter, and anyone who ever said the words “gun control” in public wouldn’t get elected dog catcher. Trying to do that would seem very, very oppressive to them.“::wink

[Heritage]

Estelle purses her lips, and considers her words carefully.

Hmm. I don't think we're going to find a consensus of approach here anytime soon - all of the Mikes are advocating radical reform, while others suggest a gradual building of resources. To be honest, I'm not sure where I stand; I've seen the gradual approach work, but it is change at a glacial pace. The radical stuff? It has worked in the past - look at the civil rights movement, though that was passive resistance, of course, and not street justice.

She sighs and rubs her face with her hands.

From a purely theoretical standpoint, what are we willing to do to achieve our aims, once we know what they are? Can we assume that 'murder' is off the list, or is that still open to discussion?

[ProfPotts]

"You assume that I hold sway over the minds of men. Just because people like me...no matter how much...dosent mean I can make them do things. I dont want to *force* people to do what I want. Positive change takes time. People have to warm to the idea's...they have to accept the change. Even if you have the power to ignore the rules, that dosent mean that you should. If I wanted Im sure I could start taking advantage of anyone I wanted. I could marry rich old woman after rich old woman till I was a *billionaire*. I know that that is wrong though, so I dont."

Mike fixes the politician with his all-green eyes, which appear to be blazing even more intently as he says in a low, controlled, voice,

"You couldn't be more wrong about what my assumptions are. If I assumed you could, & were prepared to, control people's minds against their wills, then you'd already be a thin crimson paste spread across the walls. What I assume is what I've felt myself - that you possess a charisma beyond what humanity has ever seen before. I assume that you can get yourself into elected office without the need for kickbacks from the special interest groups. If that isn't the case - if you need to play the games which damage the lives of real people like the rest of your ilk, then I'm wasting my time even talking to you."

"I know it must be frusterating to have to wait. I can tell that you are a man of *action*. Unfortunatly to make the difference we want to make...we need time to do it and we need cooperation from the *world*. Not everyone will agree with us even if it would be in their best interests. Forcing change on people will only cause dissent. Even *I* cant become president tommorrow if I wanted. Though we can start the process if you want."

The speaking bat-winged man sighs again,

"Yes - just get on with it already."

“I’m open to other ideas if you have any of that thinking outside the rules business, but if we try to ‘redistribute wealth’ people are going to start shooting at us."

Mike laughs,

"Let 'em shoot - that I can handle. You getting rid of some toxic waste is very nice & all, but does nothing to bring about real change. If you want a PR stunt, then why not do your de-rading trick on the plutonium in all the nuclear weapons the government has stockpiled? Getting rid of the waste just helps those guys who produced it in the first place - the guys who caused the problems. Getting rid of the world's nukes removes a global threat, & sticks it to the guys who built the damn things. If we stop them building any more, then they'll eventually realise that it's not a 'cost effective' thing to attempt & stop doing it."

"I grew up in gun country. Back home, everyone owned a gun, everyone was a hunter, and anyone who ever said the words “gun control” in public wouldn’t get elected dog catcher. Trying to do that would seem very, very oppressive to them.“

Mike stares at Matt for a long moment, with a look of disbelief in his face, before finally saying,

"So you're saying what, exactly? That we should allow guns to be openly sold in supermarkets in the aisle next to the baby products just so that we don't upset a few weekend hunters? That living in a country whose citizens shoot more of their fellow countrymen each year than any other place on the planet, that has the world's highest rate of children dead from gunshot wounds, is a fair price to pay for not pissing-off a few Charlton Heston fans? That's totally fecked up, man, & you know it. Either that, or you're very good at ignoring the damn facts."

Hmm. I don't think we're going to find a consensus of approach here anytime soon - all of the Mikes are advocating radical reform, while others suggest a gradual building of resources. To be honest, I'm not sure where I stand; I've seen the gradual approach work, but it is change at a glacial pace. The radical stuff? It has worked in the past - look at the civil rights movement, though that was passive resistance, of course, and not street justice.

Mike nods,

"Damn straight lady - there's a lack of concensus between those of us who want to make the world a better place, & those of us who are happy with the status quo as it is... who tend to be those who benefit the most from that status quo... How rich did you say you were again?"

From a purely theoretical standpoint, what are we willing to do to achieve our aims, once we know what they are? Can we assume that 'murder' is off the list, or is that still open to discussion?

Mike shrugs again,

"Hey - I'm trying to work with people here - but if it ends up being all down to me, then I don't have the tricks that William & Matt here have. For me to bring about change alone I need to resort to a more direct approach. If that means killing off every rich bastard I find until the remaining wealthy agree to share what they've stolen from the world, then that's what it'll come down to." ::angry

[Alex Green]

"So you're saying what, exactly? That we should allow guns to be openly sold in supermarkets in the aisle next to the baby products just so that we don't upset a few weekend hunters?... That's totally fecked up, man, & you know it. …."

Matt smiles and responds, “This isn’t about me and this isn’t about Gun Control. I’ve been in the Army and I’ve lived in Southern California. I’ve had friends die from stray bullets fired from gang bangers and I’ve shot varmints that were a threat to my land. I’ve lived all sides of this argument. What I am saying is it isn’t just a few weekend hunters. This situation is screwed up because the people want it that way. To get elected down South, you’ve got to be against Gun Control.”

“You try to cram a solution, even a sane solution, down people’s throats and it will be you who are oppressing the common people, and they will fight. Don’t assume being right means the people are going to agree with you… and above all don’t assume that real change has to be for the better. If there is one thing I’ve learned it’s that there is always room for it to get much worse. Speaking of which, I figure right now we are one short step away from a big time witch hunt, and speaking as someone who isn’t bullet proof, I’d like to prevent that.”

“Oh, and I don’t have the power to destroy all the world’s nukes with a wave of my hand. There are thousands of them and they are all over the place. I need to get close and I’ll get tired after the first few… and if we storm an army base and start stealing nukes, which is what it will look like, the man and the army will come down on us hard. They’ve got a million man army. They’ve got nukes. If they whip up the general population into a witch hunt they’ll also have the support of the masses. I’m guessing we won’t last very long.”

“Mike, I’m not disagreeing with where you want to go, but I think we need a better way to get there.”

[Bahamut810]

"Yes. This *needs to be taken one step at a time*. I cant stress that enough. I know that I dont need all the big oil, gun and tobacco backers now...but I do need the *people* to back me. I dont think people are going to vote for me if I go on a 'destroy all guns' kick if I run for president, for instance. Like he said...the consertive states wouldent vote for me at all then. No matter how much they like me. If we are going to become the type of ogranisation that we need to become...we need to take baby steps. We are a *totally* new element to the *world*. People wont *trust us* at all. Even me. They may like me a lot...but they wont really *trust me*. We cant just go out and *do* this...we need people to know we are doing it...and then show people that we are doing it for their benefit."

He watches Mike for a few seconds...wondering how to get through to him on this...

(ill go ahead and analyse weakness...social weaknesses he may have)

[Heritage]

Following the ongoing debate with her eyes, Stelle decides to let her hair down, and it pours over her shoulders - she was starting to get a little tense, and that led to the bizarre phenomenon she referred to as 'hair cramping.' ::wacko

The gun issue is possibly the stickiest one in the entire US - it's protected by an amendment, Americans love to shoot things, including other Americans, and it has a powerful lobby behind it. However, a very persuasive and charismatic candidate might be able to achieve some positive change in the public forum, even if he didn't get elected.

Mike nods,

"Damn straight lady - there's a lack of consensus between those of us who want to make the world a better place, & those of us who are happy with the status quo as it is... who tend to be those who benefit the most from that status quo... How rich did you say you were again?"

Stelle's eyes narrow, and the ends of her hair start to twitch.

I figured this was coming. Let's see, if you fly out to the Hamptons right now and kill my father, I think I collect somewhere a little south of...$200 million? That's my 'cut' of the family business, if you kill my dad. ::indifferent

She crosses her arms across her chest, and her golden locks wrap themselves tightly around the arms of her chair.

Would that make you feel better? Then you could beat me up until I give you the money. Yes, I'm one of the one percent; yes, I've had more opportunities than anyone has a right to on this Earth.

She spreads her hands.

But I'm still in this room, aren't I? I do want to make the world a better place - if I thought it was as easy as just throwing money at the problems until they go away, I would do so. You want me to fill out a check right now? Just tell me who to make it out to - but you and I both know it's going to take a lot more than that. I've got time, I've got money, and I've got a big mouth - I've got blood and sex appeal, too. Show me your vision of a better world, and I'll do what I can to help.

Mike shrugs again,

"Hey - I'm trying to work with people here - but if it ends up being all down to me, then I don't have the tricks that William & Matt here have. For me to bring about change alone I need to resort to a more direct approach. If that means killing off every rich bastard I find until the remaining wealthy agree to share what they've stolen from the world, then that's what it'll come down to." ::angry

←

The blonde nova hits him with the full weight of her hazel eyes, and the arms of her chair start to creak under the strain of her coils.

Let's say you kill all the rich people who don't just hand over, what, seventy-five percent of their net worth? Do you just go to the bank with their bloody heads and ask to make a withdrawal? I get that killing them all would make you feel really good, but what does it really get you? How does killing them get the money into people's hands? And don't you think the rest of the rich folks might find a way to wipe you out? Some of them must have novas on the payroll by now - my dad's already started talking about it.

She sighs, and makes a visible effort to calm herself down, releasing the arms of her chair, which are now bent and mangled.

Violence may be a solution, but I guarantee you it will be short-term - if you want to talk 'us' and 'them', there are a lot more of them out there, and they have the keys to the tanks, planes and missile silos. You might well be bulletproof, but the people standing next to you might not be.

[Prince of Boredom]

having been quiet throughout the entire debate, David finally gets up to speak.

Look, this is getting way out of hand. I thought we were talking about helping people out, and now suddenly we're talking about redistribution of wealth, killing all rich people and trying to get someone elected president so we can shape the world in a way of our choosing? I'm sorry Mike, maybe I missed it, but who made you god?

I'm curious what your redistribution plan entails exactly. We take all the money from everyone in the world, then split it equally among every person of a certain age? Ok, then what. Either you accept a communist society where everyone gets compensated equally, regardless of how much work they actually do, or how competent they are. That sure makes for a fair world, but also breeds stagnation. If there is no incentive for people to work harder, make new things, they won't. Or, you redistribute the wealth, and basically let things start again. Pretty soon, those with the most talent, skill, ambition, intelligence and personal drive will rise to the top; and consequently begin acquiring more wealth. And oddly enough, I would guess that a vast mojority of them would be the exact same ones that had the money in the first place. See, in America anyway, most of the people who have money, earned. And if they didn't, someone in their family did. I mean really, do you think Bill Gates is a lazy bastard that just accidentally tripped over the largest fortune in the world?

And it seems to me that the legal profession tends to do pretty well for itself. I'm curious what you're gonna do when your girlfriend gets out of law school and starts making 6 figures. Gonna kill her too?

And don't pretend that you came here to work with the rest of us. You came through that door with a personal agenda discriminatory of anyone whose been more succesful in life than you, and you don't seem at all willing to compromise, which is what being part of a team, an organization, is all about.

[tooho]

Mandy, having watched the volleys back and forth with noncomital ease, leans forward to catch Mike's eye.

"Personal attacks are uncalled for. You don't know any of us any better than we know you. You purposefully challenge convention, while I've spent my life following what I was told was right, but I don't assume that because you appear a might sinister that you are less than you are, a human being with the right to make your own choices."

"I think its admirable that you want the equality for all people to such a degree that you would fight for it, but why not fight without the use of bloodshed? You know you are stronger, faster, better than most of the men you seem to hate with such a passion. Why fall to their level to become a bully or worse, killer?" Leaning forward as her voice becomes more steely, Mandy seems more worn and sad.

"How does handing a homeless person money feed him and the thousands of others starving on the streets? We need programs to distribute aid, resources to fulfill those needs, and enforcers to insure those that those that need it get it, not some blackmarket sleazeball trying to make a buck."

But that isn't just going to happen, even if we just received the money today. Its humanity that is selfish and greedy. David's right. They aren't going to just happily stay in their little nook and accept their even share. Good or bad they'll want more. By hook or crook they'll take it. And we aren't just discussing upperclass businessmen. There are the drug dealers, gun runners, and assorted criminal element."

"You have the freedom to work hard and supply the world with a good or service that they want to such a degree they pay you for it. Those that have not just need an opportunity to prove they can do the same. Money without training will mean little to them. You can't force mankind to take the step forward to be content with their even share. You can't force them to become scrupulous and fair. You can't make them give up hate and prejudice. You are nice and big and strong, but what about the next guy? The one who's got a zillion IQ but not alot of brawn?"

Shaking her head with disgust, she thumps her hand on the tabel. "Yes, we need social change. Yes, we need it yesterday. But who is going to enforce the rules of fairness? Who are the people going to come to when they need help? Who can they trust to be impartial but willing to do what needs to be done to preserve 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness'? You've shown you don't trust the governments. Afterall, they've had hundred of years to affect change and they've not truly overcome the daily problem with crime and poverty."

Placing her hand over her heart, her voice thrums with tension and sincerity. "I want those who need justice and help to come to me. I'll fight for fairness and equal opportunity for everyone. I've lobbied for social reform and funding for inner city educational programs and medical care. I've worked with the homeless and the poverty-striken that have come to me, but I've also been mugged and robbed and threatened by the same people I was trying to help."

Jerking up, to pace the around the table, she continues in an angered voice. "I've watched clients wallow in the muck of their lives identured to the hopelessness when there wasn't justice for them. Those are the ones I want to help. I want to fight for justice. I want the ability to show them that there are people who can and will help. That are on THEIR side. Not just one doctor. Not just one millionaire. Not just one teacher.... but a group of able-bodied, intelligent people who can TRULY help them, who have the name and the resources to show them that if they fight too, we can make things better."

Stopping next to Michael, she reaches out to put her hand on his arm. "But that isn't about money. That's about a case at a time. Its about the small steps in proving you are here, and you'll stand up for them. Its about proving YOURSELF to the desperate and needy that you are there for them and opposition won't detour you. All we can do is continue fighting the fights that come to us. If we reach out and show we can and will help, we can start affecting change. But we have to do it in the system of today untill another takes its place, or we'll be stopped before we've started."

[ConcreteDragon]

Victor stands up while shaking his head "Wow---and I thought finding out who I was..am..whatever, was going to be hard! I can see I don't understand as much about the world as you folks."

Grabing his empty coffee mug, he heads over to the pot. "But it seems to me that if you want to build something, you better start like a Olive tree on a rocky slope, small and in the cracks. From there, you use your strength to make the cracks larger, so your roots can go deeper, and you become stronger. The cycle repeats until you dominate your surroundings.

That in mind, before we run off in to the battle, we need to find out what our "strengths" are (hell, I'd like to find out what my powers are), and what "cracks" we can slip them into. This is on top of every thing else you've been discussing"

Pouring the coffee in to the mug, he takes a breath. "As for me...You lead, I'll follow, at least to start with. And I'll do the best job I can. But as for the more Esoteric goals, I ain't got none (I think). So I'll just side with our host, until I say otherwize." And with that, the little Greek sits back down at his seat to enjoy his CuppaJo and asks "could you pass me a danish, please?"

[malkboy]

Xander listens to his peers carefully, looking across the table at each of them as they speak. His collected demeanor makes it hard to gauge his position on the discussion. Slowly, Xander runs a hand through his hair as he rises up from his seat. He steps behind his chair and placing his hands on the back of it's fine fabric, pushes it under the table.

"It seems to me, that what we have here is a difference in philosophy and methodology that may or may not be able to be resolved with negotiation. What I can definitively say is that, any organization to be affiliated with myself will not be initiating terrorist activities amongst the wealthy to persude them to give up thier fortunes. Nor will I be redistributing all of my personal wealth to the needy in equal portions and advocating for others to do so. Those simply aren't feasible plans and will in the long range fail to have an impact on society," Xander says while moving towards Mike. Reaching into a pocket, Xander pulls out an standard white envelope and drops it on the table.

Xander continues on speaking, "I knew when I invited you Mike, that you would have some fundamentally different ideals then most of the participants at this table. But if you can't constrain yourself to work within confines of the current standard social dynamics then you would only endanger all of us by association. Concepts like a name and goals seem like petty things when there are people in need, but to be fully accepted into society you have to follow the rules of that society. If you want to effect a true change in society, then you have to be willing to work within it's confines. Which regardless of your acknowledgement of the fact or not, we are no longer a part of standard society because of the changes that we've gone through. So on that note, there's your money and if you decide you don't want to be here you can just go on, because I'm not going to change my plans to fit around your desire for instant action."

Looking across the table and to each person seated there, 'So now, what we will do stands at a question. Perhaps my suggestion of finding Ms. Cross was a bit premature, because we barely know our new selves let alone each other. And how can we know what we want to do, when we don't know everything that we can do? So perhaps some individual and team building exercises are in order before we can truly set some goals or identify what we want to work towards. Because while we can spout the ideals of a utopian society, can any of us really effect any changes that will lead to such a thing? Is our species even ready for such a thing as a part or whole?'

[ConcreteDragon]

::huh Victor grabs a paper and pen, and starts writing something. ::idea

[archer]

Having avoided participating in the discussion up to now, Brandt waits until Xander is finished. With a quirky smile and raised eyebrow, he disappears from his seat, reappearing next to Mike, with no discernible movement inbetween. Peering quite intently at Mike's shoulder, he quips, "Awful big chip you've got there. Nice trick making it invisible and all." ::wink

Shrugging, he glances around the room. "I hate to be the dissenting voice here, but I think our winged friend should stay. We might not like some of his suggestions, but hey, no one's got great ideas all the time. And, it's exactly his kind of passion for change that we're all looking for, right?"

Brandt strolls casually over to the wall to lean against it. "Hell, I'll be honest about it. I came for the money." Holding up a hand to show the stuffed evelope that, up to a moment ago was resting on the table, he makes sure everyone sees it before tucking it in the back pocket of his khakis.

"I don't have a special burning desire to make the world a better place for humanity. There, I said it. I mean, yeah, I saved some nuns, and I'm an elementary school teacher. La de da. If it weren't for getting drunk and mugged in Mexico, I'd be in class right now, helping 5th graders discover the joys of learning." He rolls his eyes.

"Seriously, though. When I started teaching, I was really into it. I was just as passionate as Mike here. But over the years, I guess the mundane life got to me, and it jsut became a job. Don't get me wrong, I still love working with kids and seeing their eyes light up when they finally get something. But all the meetings, and the politics of the school system just kind of suck the life out of it after awhile."

He sighs. "My class is right. I do talk too much. What I'm trying to say is: Even if we toss out everything Mike has said, his fire and determination to help people woke me up. I know that if he leaves this room now, he'll be out there immediately at least tryingto make a difference. I can't say I'd do the same."

[Bahamut810]

the nova-politician nods.

"I agree that he should stay. I never said that he should leave. I just said that we need time. We *have* to play by a certian set of rules if we want to make any difference on *any* level. I hate to say it...but all playing Batman will get you is a trip to prison, and thats something we *dont* need if we want to make a contribution to society."

He pauses a moment, and stands up.

"Think of the civil rights movement. It took *time*, it took *years* to make a difference. It took a lot of effort. A lot of give and a lot of take. They had to play by a set of rules that was agenst them...and slowly change them. It didnt happen overnight. There is very little that we can do that we will be able to get done over night. Im just hoping that each of you that wants to help improve the state of the world will help. Will take the time to do what we need to do. We *each* have special gifts that we can use to contribute. I, of course, will cover the public side of things. Press releases, photo-ops, questions, even 'damage control' if we need it. Mike, and any other of the more physical among us can build a *town* of low cost housing in a matter of days, if not hours. Our good doctor here, though not a...uhhh...superbeing herself, can become the first specialist in the field of people like us with our help."

He puts his hand up to his chin briefly.

"How about this...Mr. Fox? Do you have any contacts in the police department? How about we get a special permission for Mike to stop crimes...if he agrees to keep the kid gloves on and not hurt anyone *too* horribly. That way he can contrabute the way he feels he needs to. Crime fighting *is* a valuable contrabution as well. Especially if we could convince you to help us build thoes houses every once in a while."

[malkboy]

A grin creeps across the host's face as he listens to Brandt and William. His tone lighter than before, "I wasn't saying he had to leave perse, but I was opening up the means for him to do so if he wanted. It is good to see that this group is already forming into the mindset of a team, before it ever really is one. I invited Mike to join because of his strong will and his different view of the world. But as much as he is the driving force, I must act as a throttle control to keep us from overwhelming the rest of society and becoming the enemy."

A knock at the door punctuates through the room, just a moment before opening for a rolling buffet table to be pushed through by two bellhops. They take the lids off the various trays revealing fish, roast beef, ham, turkey, salads, vegetables, and a few different desserts. Plates and silverware are stacked on the end of the table and at the other end of the long table are glasses holding water, soda, and other various drinks.

"One last statement before we break for dinner and this is in response to you William. The police already leave him alone, because he does what they would do if not tied down by the system. Eventually it will reach a breaking point and not even my influence will be able to help very much at that point. What I can and already have done is given him some of the best lawyers to keep the criminals from taking him to court over the injuries that have been sustained."