Aberrant: 200X - 2010 Migration (FOR REAL THIS TIME!)

[SkyLion]

I wasn't insulting anyone. I was merely pointing out that people who have been playing 2018 for YEARS (and you may or may not be one of them) might not realize how your words might come across as hostile or even arrogant. Usually saying life isnt fair, suck it up, when the rules are in ones favor could be considered rude.

And please note I prefaced what I said by "I might be mistaken" because I am well aware of the fact that things dont always translate well in text form.

I would also like to add in response to your "make your own forum" idea that you dont seem to understand what I am saying. People will play where there is the most players and therefore the most possibility of interaction. Given that the players playing reboots have all known each other and played together for some time I feel a strong sense of cliquishness.

Again I dont think you are aware of the attutide that is coming across from you Vivi. You are basically saying "hell yes this is our clique and if you dont like it go play in your own sandbox." Can you see how that discourages new kids from approaching the clique?

And as per jason Grants last post about removing the slot limitation its just one more little proof I have that the old guard want all the old and then some new. If y'all are really just interested in rebooting your old characters in a better setting then why make new characters at all? And if we are going to have new characters then having an "overall" slot limit will make people choose more carefully which characters they reboot. I am facing that right now. I have only 2 slots for this year right now and its VERY hard to choose which ones I should make...rebooters dont have to make those hard choices.

Im just saying. If Fox or Seph or Nova say Im out of line I wont say anything more but so far I think I have been pretty polite in expressing my views.

[SkyLion]

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

Proposal:
* Allow 2010 reboots.
* 2010 reboots will cost a new character slot.
* No new slots to be given out at this time.
* Limit the over all number of slots currently available to 4 (2 new, and 2 for reboots for those that can. If someone has already rebooted more than 2 they will be allowed to keep them.)

Any constructive comments or suggestions?

I disagree with the bolded section. I don't think anyone's done it so far, but if there's someone with 3 reboots already, and the decision is made to limit reboot slots, the upper limit should match the highest number of reboots associated with one writer.

That might be unclear, so, clarification:

Writer A has rebooted one character.
Writer B has rebooted two.
Writer C has rebooted four.

The limit would be four.

I wouldnt see anything wrong with a limit of 4...but that should be all inclusive. IE if you make 4 reboots then enjoy them but no original ones. Or any combination thereof so long as it doesnt exceed 4. That sound reasonable. I fyou disagree please dont flame me.

[Vivi OOC]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

Lots of personal comments and conjecture.

Tell you what. How about you and I take this to PMs and continue to hash out our differences of opinion, and leave this thread for constructive discussion? Because, honestly, you're making an "Us" and "Them" issue out of this, when it shouldn't be. Any of us are capable of making a section exactly the way Nova did, and drawing activity and new people there. She did it. Others have brainstormed games and forum areas into existence, as well. It can be done, and if you are sincerely not going to have fun in 200X, please, find a way to have fun on your own terms in another forum. The site can only benefit, and there is nothing whatsoever preventing you or anyone else from running games and starting your own forums, participating in existing forums to revive them, or whatever you happen to enjoy.

So far as why new characters are being allowed at all, rather than just leaving 200X solely the forum for 2018 reboots... Nova wanted to be nice, and give people the option of trying something new in her little corner of the site. That's it. It wasn't some far-reaching concept, as far as I know- she just wanted people to have fun.

Please, please, don't throw that back in her face.

That's the last thing I'm going to say in this thread that isn't immediately relevant to the issue, and I apologize (sincerely) for my participation in its derailment.

[Hyoseph]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

Originally Posted By: Vivi OOC

Originally Posted By: Mr Fox

Proposal:
* Allow 2010 reboots.
* 2010 reboots will cost a new character slot.
* No new slots to be given out at this time.
* Limit the over all number of slots currently available to 4 (2 new, and 2 for reboots for those that can. If someone has already rebooted more than 2 they will be allowed to keep them.)

Any constructive comments or suggestions?

I disagree with the bolded section. I don't think anyone's done it so far, but if there's someone with 3 reboots already, and the decision is made to limit reboot slots, the upper limit should match the highest number of reboots associated with one writer.

That might be unclear, so, clarification:

Writer A has rebooted one character.
Writer B has rebooted two.
Writer C has rebooted four.

The limit would be four.

I wouldnt see anything wrong with a limit of 4...but that should be all inclusive. IE if you make 4 reboots then enjoy them but no original ones. Or any combination thereof so long as it doesnt exceed 4. That sound reasonable. I fyou disagree please dont flame me.

I actually agree with The Fool, here. As a true to life, in the flesh noob to the boards, I'm a fan of the idea of being able to put out as many characters as, well, everybody else. Keep in mind, the fact that I have Zer0 and Praxis is keeping me occupied for the moment, but let's say I get tired of playing the antisocial guy that nobody likes sometime in the next few months and drop him. Does this mean that I'm stuck with the one? I'm not saying don't limit, that's just asking for trouble. I'm saying have similar limits across the board.

I'm not a fan of having unlimited characters, that leads to flooding and lots and lots of irritated people and "ghost" / "nova-of-the-week" characters. Still, the idea of having the sme amount of flexibility as the people who can pull out reboots, dust them off, and lay them down is appealing.

[SkyLion]

If you wanted to speak in PMs ViVi you should have just PMed me. Im not attacking nova or throwing anything in her face. What you still arent seeming to get is that I dont *want* to start a new forum. 200X has all but domed 2010 anyways.

I believe that one site can only support so many forums of this nature....as is obvious to anyone who follows the posting rates across the 3 we have now. Also, if I want to participate with a large established player group I have to go to where those players are...here in 200X.

I dont understand what problem you are having with me???

[Mr Fox]

That's enough. Any further posts between you two will be deleted. A suggestion was made to take it to PMs and if you two want to chat there, please do so. It has been fairly polite until now but it sounds to me like it is about to get personal and this is not the place for it.

[VileBill]

Originally Posted By: The_Fool

I wasn't insulting anyone. I was merely pointing out that people who have been playing 2018 for YEARS (and you may or may not be one of them) might not realize how your words might come across as hostile or even arrogant. Usually saying life isnt fair, suck it up, when the rules are in ones favor could be considered rude.

Being one of those folks who've been here for years I'd like to address the the new person question.

To all of you new people:

I love ya. Welcome aboard. Have fun. Write up a storm. Produce and flourish.


But for the love of fuck realize that this place has been here for YEARS as have some of us and while that doesn't equate to authority it does equate to experience.

Why moderation? Because no moderation didn't work for most.

Why limit power levels? Because unlimited power level lent to some horrible shit.

Why limit numbers of characters? Because unlimited characters clogged up the works.

A lot of times the shit we suggest isn't because we're unrepentent goat-fuckers it's because we've been here a long ass time and we've seen what doesn't fucking work.

Thank you and Tssauguatha Bless.

[Warren Verona]

I just don't see how this can be so difficult. Why don't the mods simply just say "Look, this is how it's going to be."

You three talk amongst yourselves, figure something out and get back with us. My 200X buzz is pretty much blown. It seems nothing can be accomplished without everyone protesting, bitching, or claiming some right of theirs has been violated.

I've re-read the thread and there is a majority decision already pertaining to the original topic. Why are we still talking about this?

Craig (Bill) is right, we've fucked enough times to know what works and what doesn't, and right now, this thread isn't working because it's gone in a complete circle twice already.

[Jason Grant]

One more time around Rev and we have a 3 ring circus

[Mr Fox]

you're right Rev. Too much trying to please everyone, and no one ends up being pleased. On the other hand, if we did just make proclamations from on high, no one would be pleased either so the mods are damned if we do and damned if we don't. I believe the original time alloted for discussion is getting pretty close to over anyway. So if anyone has any last constructive thoughts get them posted. Nova will be posting the final proposal for a vote soon. Either that or we'll just go all autocratic and make a proclamation.

Either way, the negative discussion is over. Have a nice evening.

[SkyLion]

Get ready for Echo Gemini!!!

[Seph OOC]

Leaving aside the debate that preceded, I'm liking The Fool's idea to limit total characters per player, reboots and new alike, to a total of four. I'd like to add the possible stipulation that every six months players be allowed to "retire" characters in order to make/reboot one if they have a slot handy. Retired characters should be permanently retired, ie, you can't switch between a revolving cast of characters every six months.

[z028 Riley]

Last post for me here as well:

As the NP cap goes up for character creation as well as players currently in play, I'm more in favor of letting the 2018'ers and 2010'ers have more character slots available as a reward of experience and seniority on the board. I'd follow that up by saying that if you want to stem floods of characters onto the board, set up maximum character number for each year. You want to bring a new character and are already at limit? Retire someone. Or play another character on another board.

I'd say, though, that there be a cap on new characters each year to encourage them to get set up and entrenched before being abandoned at the end of the 'honeymoon' most writers have with new character concepts. If you know you can't just make another tomorrow you're more likely to reach out to other writers for new and interesting twists on stories with you current characters. That stretches you as a writer and encourages more unusual character groupings and interconnections between writers.

The above would be the character cap for newbies.

As for the reboots: This is a 2018 reboot board. Okay. Then allow unlimited or higher limit reboot numbers from 2018. For the 2010 board, let one in a year. No flooding, and you can port over your favorite, then your second fave, and so on. Can't decide? Pick a name out of a hat. You don't have to stick with it, but it usually shows you who your favorite really is.

Doing this way will allow the 2018 writers to get what they wanted in the creation of this board: new life for beloved characters and a slightly different setting to play around in. Those with 2010 get some benefit and can play with the new shiny too (or more, for those with 2018 characters as well).

So, unlimited on 2018; 2 on new characters, 1 on 2010's, and a max for active characters by each author for the year. Perhaps 5? That's a nice round number. Or whatever the current highest reboot+new characters author is out there. This helps the newbies not feel entirely left out in the cold when it comes to how much more others are allowed to do. It gives the feeling that everyone has boundaries to follow, instead of just us.

Nebies get a bit of the short shrift, but what I'm hearing from this entire thread is that the 200X was made primarily for the 2018 players and newbies have some proving to do on their authoring chaps in the OpNet boards.

TF and other newbies-in-arms with me, let's prove that we're reliable, and maybe talk to the mods again in three or six months. If we show that we're going to stick around, be fun to write with, and can play along when needed, then we'll probably get more respect and more of the mods' ears at that point.

So, I'm long-winded when I'm half asleep. Coffee or chocolate will keep such long posts at bay, so please send donations to my message box.

[Nova OOC]

As posted in the call for vote, the amendment is very simple. There is no mention of increasing or limiting the number of characters that are in play. That is really outside the scope of the discussion-- the main idea is whether or not 2010 characters should be imported.

Expansion or contraction of the total number of characters in actually only tangentially related to this issue, and ought to be discussed separately. In contemporary politics the fastest way to make any kind of amendment vote fail is to make that amendment overly-ambitious and address more than one issue at a time. I see no reason to make that mistake here too.