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Aberrant: 200X - Table Talk - General OOC Thread.

Mr Fox

By Mr Fox,
in 200X

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SkyLion Legendary

SkyLion

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S'ok. Someone asked me why i jumped on you thinking it was some bug up my ass. Not so. I just make sure to read every post that comes up in the forums i am reading and as I read down your sheet i just did the math as I went out of habit. We all make math goofs every now and then. Good fic btw!

Also, why does the table talk thread say Re: Doctor Aeon above all the posts??? confused

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SkyLion Legendary

SkyLion

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S'ok. Someone asked me why i jumped on you thinking it was some bug up my ass. Not so. I just make sure to read every post that comes up in the forums i am reading and as I read down your sheet i just did the math as I went out of habit. We all make math goofs every now and then. Good fic btw!

Also, why does the table talk thread say Re: Doctor Aeon above all the posts??? confused

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Eingar Rising Star

Eingar

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Don't worry, I wasn't bothered. I don't mind people pointing out stuff I miss or get wrong.

To dodge the forum-warriors, it's probably best to send me (or whoever) a PM in the future. That way, no-one else can jump down your throat.

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Eingar Rising Star

Eingar

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Don't worry, I wasn't bothered. I don't mind people pointing out stuff I miss or get wrong.

To dodge the forum-warriors, it's probably best to send me (or whoever) a PM in the future. That way, no-one else can jump down your throat.

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SkyLion Legendary

SkyLion

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Question for Xiao's player. You took Shapeshift, using a single form only but neglected to specify what those dots would be used for. If its the same form every time, then it should be the same dot assignments every time. This also strikes me as a little bit unfair considering you could do the same thing with bodymorph but it would cost you as a level 3 power per dot. As of now it looks like you are getting 5 dots in level 1 or 2 powers but paying only a QP per dot. Seems a little broken IMHO...

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Dawn OOC Legendary

Dawn OOC

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Sky, I made that call based on previous discussions where using Bodymorph to assume a living form was considered to be against the spirit of that power. Given that Saori can only do a single form, the weakened SS was dropped to a lower level. The balance against the cheaper cost of BM is that when you activate BM, you always get those exact same results and level - in other words, if you have three dots of BM: Fire with Immolate, FF and Density Decrease, you always have those with the activation of the power. With SS, it's a roll, and the number of successes determines the number of stuff she gets to have. So if she gets three successes on SS, she has to dedicate the first to the form. The next two can go to a dot of claws and armor, but she's still getting less with the same number of things. Saori's pool for the power as it is currently is 10 plus a mega - assuming that roughly 1 die in 3 is a success, she's looking at 3-5 successes, depending on whether the Mega is feeling friendly. Had I gotten 5 dots of BM: Fenghuang, she'd be guaranteed to have the same result as if she had rolled 6 successes (since BM doesn't require you to use a success for assuming the form) with her SS - everytime. To me, the variance in SS makes up for the lowered cost, when its limited to a single form.

Also, you don't have to specify those dots ahead of time or use the exact same matrix every time. I often do, but it's not required. In the next day or so, I'll post her stats for the Fenghuang form.

Hope this helps you see where I was coming from.

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SkyLion Legendary

SkyLion

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Hmmm. And yet it is listed to one form. And as has been brought up ad nausem, shapeshift doesn't give one powers...it lets one take dots in powers that simulate the shape. Partial success means you may or may not have duplicated the shape propoerly. IE shapeshift into a falcon: 2 sux go to shrink and you put a third in claws, but you didnt get a 5th sux so while you formed wings, they arent really functional. You would need another success to put into flight or bodymod: patagia.

Does that makes sense? So by your logic if its one shape you should define the characteristics of that shape. Then lay out what each succes would buy you at that number of successes.

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Warren Verona Mentor

Warren Verona

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Sky, Dawn has done this before and she knows what she's doing. While you may be correct in the assumption that if she doesn't gain enough successes certain powers may not be available to her that's just how it works sometimes. Dice are a chance.

Also, considering she has done this before Dawn will provide the result of what successes will grant her, she did it with Kara and the list was exceptional. Her character is accurately designed within guidelines of the 200X rule set. Bodymorph (shapeshift) is an inaccurate house rule and is not the intended canon use of the power.

Let the players in 200X worry about the characters in 200X.

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SkyLion Legendary

SkyLion

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I would like to point out that statisticly speaking, 10 dice+ one mega give 4.9 successes on average. So she is still effectively getting 5 dots in level 2 powers, for 5 NP and 1 QP activation and maintenance. Seems cheap to me but that's just my opinion.

I'd rather see something like that as a level 2 power, not weakened to one. Since she already has flight linked to it the options I see available to her are armor, sizemorph, claws (which her background mentioned) density control, and bodymods. Seeing as how she could 5 dots in any of those the level 1 thing seems...exploitive.

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Dawn OOC Legendary

Dawn OOC

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Sky, here's the bottom line. This is going to be my last post on this matter. You and Dave can keep going at it, but I'm done. I've given my reasons, I've been backed by at least one other person, and I'm going to have the numbers on what her successes give later, I hope today.

If you're using the term 'exploitive' to imply I'm power gaming, I'm going to be irritated. I built this the same way I've built other SS, and they worked out fine. I hope that you'll give me a chance to get the numbers up and show you how I see the build working.

But you can take this statement as my final word: Until the mods tell me I'm wrong, I'm leaving it as is.

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The Fine Balance Collaborator

The Fine Balance

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BTW I am Titus. And, like this:

Originally Posted By: Alex's Super-fun Rewrite!
Dawn I was just expressing my opinion that getting an average of 5 dots in a level 2 powers for level 1 prices seems a bit much. Do what you want, doesn't really matter to me.
Originally Posted By: MOAR
Whatever dude. Call it what you like but its still true. She is going to do what she wants anyway, so I hope she has fun with it.

Note my subtle alterations. Anyway, I'm done, said my piece. Just lettin' ya know.

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z-Xiao Saori Enthusiast

z-Xiao Saori

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Originally Posted By: SkyLion
The success table for Saori looks mostly good. I would hasten to point out that shapeshift specifically does not allow the use of energy type effects like Qbolt or in this case Immolate.

Actually, "does not allow" is not correct; the power says that the ST may disapprove anything he or she doesn't feel is appropriate to the shape that isn't listed in their examples and it cites that any physical power is probably acceptable. It then gives the example that QB-fire isn't appropriate for a dragon. I find that example to be a poor one, as dragons often breathe fire and QB-fire would certainly represent that ability well. However, it is what they picked and I tend to file it under "YAWWI".

I stand by the Immolate being appropriate for a phoenix-like creature. However, if the mods or a sufficient amount of the active members of the forum objects, then I'll figure something else out. I'm not out to piss people off; I just want to do what is appropriate for the character.
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Warren Verona Mentor

Warren Verona

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I actually believe that example was intentional. "Generally speaking, Shapeshift may duplicate only only physical powers-" and then it cites the dragon energy emission capability not an acceptable use of the power.

Now, I know I'm not active (at the moment) in 200X, but neither are two of the mods, leaving Fox to take up the mantle. If this character was handed to me I'd say 'no'. Not because she isn't well written or because she's 'broken'. She's not, actually she very balanced. But once it's allowed to manipulate energy emissions than everyone who is already a monster or capable of becoming one will run roughshod over it claiming it's part of their theme.

Wakinyan for example, already being a Thunder God and a Griffin could, by the testament of Saori's write up, Shapeshift any power that deals with lightning or thunder, etc... just because the energy aspect of the power was filed under "Yaww".

She has an energy emission as a Shapeshift power and the core tends to lean towards no on that (I do as well, I think Shapeshift should be physical powers only). However this is not my table, nor is this my game to moderate (lucky for all of you...).

Personally I'd say 'no', but I'm an asshole around here and I know you all hate me so just go ahead and do whatever you like. *runs off crying*

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Dawn OOC Legendary

Dawn OOC

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I'll consider what you said, Reven. It's a good point, regarding what other assholes would do if Saori was allowed as is - though I'm starting to think that we should have our own version of Godwin's law: if you invoke Waki in a discussion of powers, you've already lost. wink Anyone with other suggestions on what I could do instead of Immolate would be welcome. I am coming up dry.

Originally Posted By: SkyLion
...wow.

I came in here to post and found said exactly what I was going to say. A pleasure to agree with you! *checks for other signs of the End Times*

And you wonder why people call you snarky and passive aggressive. wink

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Warren Verona Mentor

Warren Verona

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Originally Posted By: Dawn, OOC
I'll consider what you said, Reven. It's a good point, regarding what other assholes would do if Saori was allowed as is - though I'm starting to think that we should have our own version of Godwin's law: if you invoke Waki in a discussion of powers, you've already lost. wink

The funniest part of that is I was thinking the same thing as I started typing out that example: "I am so going to get Godwin'ed for this."

Quote:
Anyone with other suggestions on what I could do instead of Immolate would be welcome. I am coming up dry.


Simple. Leave it as is. There is nothing inherently wrong with the build besides that one minor issue and it certainly isn't a major 'kill all in my way, I am invulnerable!' power.

Nova's express their powers in a variety of ways, perhaps this is something unique to Saori. If you want other energy powers you'll have to buy those separately, but the long and the short of it is, she can Shapeshift Immolate and no one knows how. She should only be able SS Immolate after a certain number of successes, kinda like what you have now, and never on its own as a separate power activation... blah, blah... I'm just preaching now, but I think you know what I'm trying to say.

I don't see any reason the mod(s) wouldn't allow it, it's just one power and it hardly breaks the character or the setting, just the RAW... which are already poorly written.

A single form however is not a 10 point weakness, it's a 5 point. The power should be Level 2, not 1.
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