opnet [OpNet] Enough: A Jury of Peers

[Timeslip]

For the past six months, I have hounded by the events that occurred last year in Amsterdam. I have lost my home, my family, my freedom of movement, and my peace of mind.

Today, I declare that enough is enough.

I request a trial, so that I may finally establish that my actions, while regrettable, were in keeping with the universal right to defend oneself in the face of deadly threat.

However, I can consent to a trial only if the jury is comprised of my peers in the One Race. Entirely aside from the fact that members of Homo sapiens sapiens are not peers to those of Homo sapiens novus, a jury of baselines is innately predisposed – at a fundamental, “gut-instinct” level – against any nova who exhibits perceivable traits of evolution.

I put forth that such a jury should be comprised of four novas affiliated with Project Utopia, four affiliated with the Teragen, and four unaffiliated with either organization.

I believe that the above represents the only fair means of putting this matter to rest, one way or another, for the peace of mind of all concerned. How you, my peers, organize this is up to you; presumably, Project Utopia can deal with the technicalities of legal jurisdiction to conduct the trial, if said organization is interested in pursuing justice rather than revenge.

My fate is in your hands.

- Timeslip

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

This cannot end well.

[Muse]

And a third of the jury shall be those who believe that the writ of the law shall be do as one wishes.

[Wakinyan]

Not sure if the powers that be will take kindly to the rules being set by the accused. But to be honest when you could disappear forever they might take it. I doubt any of us here will get called up.

[Gerald Haney]

Unaffiliated. I volunteer.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I shall consult the powers that be.

[Warren Verona]

I am, and always shall be neutral in the affairs of both Baselines and Novas.

Death does not discriminate, and neither do I.

You may include me as an unaffiliated member.

[Leliel]

I concur with Timeslip in that this is likely the only way to provide for a fair trial, without biases.

That being said,I would be honored to represent Timeslip on behalf of the Teragen, if she would consent to my representation.

[Haplo]

Haplopelma Lividum speaking for Teragen, if you would have me.

[Gryle]

I am aware of the events in Amsterdam, and of your actions there.

I have little interest in the fact that a Nova died, but I am interested that justice be served, rather than revenge or Human law.

Count me as unaffiliated, if you will have me.

[Machina]

Oh, this is rich. Tell me something, darling, who exactly judges a trial of your "peers"? Really, I want to know. Who among the cluster-fuck of mutants you call brothers do you deem fit to pass judgment on you? As if you'd actually abide any such judgment. You fucking crack me up.

Man, wouldn't life be fucking grand if we could all pick our juries? Shit, we'd really cut down on the prison population that way. I'm sure we could have found twelve cannibals to sit in for Dahmer. I bet we could have found some former Nazis to sit in on Pol Pot or Idi Amin's trial. I tell you this; if I ever get convicted of a crime, I sure as shit won't accept anything less than physicists from the top five American and British universities for my jury.

If this godawful farce goes anywhere, I call dibs on prosecutor.

[Roma]

Is this for real?

[z-Silvestru]

Timeslip, this is not the way that the legal system works. As someone in the middle of ramping up for my trial, I have some experience.

Machina is completely right; you don't get to pick your jury, or even establish criteria for the selection. That goes against the concept of law being impersonal. Even if this did move forward, there's no way they'd let novas who know you personally in the jury. Lawyers and judges who have personal involvements in a trial are not allowed to have anything to do with it, and juries are screened for personal ties just as strigently.

Also, stating that baselines can't judge you is like saying a black man can't be judged by an all-Asian jury. Whether or not you like it, baselines have just as much say in whether you are guilty as a nova; this is their world, too.

But I am glad to see that you're stepping forward and at least giving some consideration to doing the right thing.

[The White Rat]

Quote:

Also, stating that baselines can't judge you is like saying a black man can't be judged by an all-Asian jury. Whether or not you like it, baselines have just as much say in whether you are guilty as a nova; this is their world, too.

Bad analogy. Baselines are as genetically different from Novas, as chimpanzees are from baselines. Would you want a baseline to be tried in front of a jury with gorillas and chimpanzees on it? I would think not. Modern legal codes state that you are to tried in front of a jury of your peers. Humans are not a Nova's 'peers'.

I do agree, that she shouldn't get to pick her jury. If she is truly innocent of killing a member of the One Race, then she should stand trial in front of a diverse jury: Terat, Utopian, Elite, and other. Timeslip is accused of a crime against her species. Let her species decide.

[Timeslip]

I would note that I made no stipulation regarding who would and would not sit on such a jury, other than that it be balanced. Indeed, you will find that the baseline jury selection process, in which prosecuting and defense teams reject various jurors, generally producing a similar effect.

No, jury selection would be left up to the newly established court, with prosecuting and defense teams ensuring that the balance is found. Indeed, a simpler method would be to simply exclude any member of Project Utopia or the Teragen from the jury, but I do not believe for a moment that either organization would agree to those terms. And as Sylvan pointed out, those of the One Race who know me personally need not apply.

As for a judge? I'm certain someone appropriate could be found for the task. Surely Utopia has some nova with a legal background who could sit the bench. So long as the jury is balanced, I would not object to that.

[Preston]

Point One: In no system that I am aware of is Protection of One's Self, or another person, an allowed defense when the victim is a representative of the governing body acting in a legal manner. I don't like the reality that Utopia is allowed to act as a law enforcement body, but that is how they are allowed to act at present.

Point Two: This trial would rapidly devolve down to the above point. If it is accepted that the deceased was acting as a law enforcement officer in pursuit of their sworn duty then Timeslip has no defense, and is guilty. If Utopia's authority is not accepted then Timeslip should be found innocent. This being the case, I can't imagine Project Utopia's legal department allowing any nova member to be on this jury in any official capacity. They done some dumb ass things before, so who knows?

That being said, a trial by jury is probably not what Timeslip should be looking for. TBJ is an advanced form of justice-rendering, and I don't think novas are anywhere close to being ready for it. A trail by three judges with eye-witness accounts and personal statements by those who know the defendant as well as those who knew the deceased being allowed as testimony. The three judges hear all the evidence and then render their verdict, be it punishment even unto death, and/or restitution.

The judges should be chosen on two criteria:

1) Their ability to render a fair judgement, and

2) their ability to enforce that judgement.

[Timeslip]

A tribunal? I've seen worse ideas; unfortunately, I suspect that it is even less likely that Utopia would accede to such than to a jury trial. That said, if it can happen this way, then so be it.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

Bad analogy. Baselines are as genetically different from Novas, as chimpanzees are from baselines. Would you want a baseline to be tried in front of a jury with gorillas and chimpanzees on it? I would think not. Modern legal codes state that you are to tried in front of a jury of your peers. Humans are not a Nova's 'peers'.

I love how you call my analogy bad, then spin up a worse one of your own. Baselines are not apes; they are capable of clear, verbal communication and reasoning. They are not as good at it as novas, but this does not make them animals. And this is their planet, too. The second we start removing them from the decision-making process, especially about things that affect them, is the second we become elitest tyrants. I know that won't bother a lot of the Teragen, but it's still not the way to build a peaceful future together.

[The White Rat]

Quote:

Baselines are not apes; they are capable of clear, verbal communication and reasoning. They are not as good at it as novas, but this does not make them animals. And this is their planet, too. The second we start removing them from the decision-making process, especially about things that affect them, is the second we become elitest tyrants.

According to genetic data, Homo sapiens sapiens (baselines), are apes, and are therfore animals. They just have a well developed pre-frontal cortex. This alteration of the brain has given mankind the ability to make decisions affecting the lower order apes, (chimps, gorillas, and orangutans).

If a small change in brain structure gives humans the right to remove the other apes from the decision-making process, should not a Node, which is also a change in brain structure, give Nova that same right? Or do we make all animals equal, regardless of their brain morphology?

[BlackThorn]

Hmmm ... I imagine I count as an Independant. If called, I would serve.

[Typhoon]

I am independant, If required I will also serve.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

According to genetic data, Homo sapiens sapiens (baselines), are apes, and are therfore animals. They just have a well developed pre-frontal cortex. This alteration of the brain has given mankind the ability to make decisions affecting the lower order apes, (chimps, gorillas, and orangutans).

If a small change in brain structure gives humans the right to remove the other apes from the decision-making process, should not a Node, which is also a change in brain structure, give Nova that same right? Or do we make all animals equal, regardless of their brain morphology?

No, I'm talking about the ability to communicate clearly, with both us and them, and the ability to reason. Apes have a limit with what they can both with both. Baselines, as I have stated, are not at good as it as some of us, but they can still do it, and some do it better than some novas. And before you go there, don't try to introduce mentally handicapped humans as an argument to show they're less capable of reason than apes; they are an atypical example and neurologically compromised. In other words, they would have a higher, more typical level of functioning, if there wasn't some factor working against them, such as brain damage.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

The second we start removing them from the decision-making process, especially about things that affect them, is the second we become elitest tyrants. I know that won't bother a lot of the Teragen, but it's still not the way to build a peaceful future together.

If I may.

Please remember also Sylvan that the same legal system requires that a jury be impartial. That means that their judgment be unimpaired by media and rumors, and all that other stuff.

Since this incident Timeslip and her actions have been broadcast to every end of the globe and she has been demonized in more languages than the bible has been written in. Who did it? Utopia. They made themselves out to be heroes and Timeslip to be some violent terrorist who only did what she did because she was a Terat and enjoyed it.

I work with the laws everyday, and Sean and I drag at least one cocky Terat in by his ear a month that is preaching that ‘one race’ crap. But ya know, just because they’re Terats, I've noticed, automatically seems to remove the rights they would normally receive in a court of law.

As you all know, I'm no Terat lover. Frankly you all bug the shit out of me. All of you apparently are fighting for the same vision but none of you jack asses can seem to agree on what that vision is. To me that's just plain dumb. However, I do believe in fairness. Be it in battle, court, or Monopoly, everyone involved should have a fair chance.

Sean and I have both seen it. A baseline judge who hears 'Teragen' from a prosecutor seems to forget evidence and goes right for the 'if you're a Terat than you're a terrorist' angle and suddenly that guy seems devoid of rights.

I dunno if Timeslip is gonna pull this off, but if it comes to pass and I'm there to assist rest assured she'll be treated fairly. If I see the evidence and she needs to have a cap popped in her star spangled ass, I'll pop her right there. But, if the evidence says otherwise well, she should have a chance to live a life with out having to run.

Nuthin' personal Galaxy Girl. Just playing 'bad cop'.

Stick to what you know Chloe. Go plant a garden.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

Please remember also Sylvan that the same legal system requires that a jury be impartial. That means that their judgment be unimpaired by media and rumors, and all that other stuff.

Since this incident Timeslip and her actions have been broadcast to every end of the globe and she has been demonized in more languages than the bible has been written in. Who did it? Utopia. They made themselves out to be heroes and Timeslip to be some violent terrorist who only did what she did because she was a Terat and enjoyed it.

[snipped for length]

Stick to what you know Chloe. Go plant a garden.

First, I want Timeslip to get a fair trial too. I'm getting one, and I want anyone on trial for anything to get a fair shake.

Frankly, if we're going to pick a jury based on whether or not someone's heard about the case, then she'll have a jury of zero. Everyone, nova or baseline (who has a shot of being included in this and not from an electricless third-world country), has heard of this situation, and everyone has an opinion, even you, Revenant. Getting the Knights to give you a badge doesn't make you a perfect, impartial judge (or jury member).

And being on trial for murder has given me a little know-how on things, Revenant. Everything I've said is pretty general knowledge on how the legal system works. So you can go back to being a bouncer and a cop and general forum commentator, and let me have my say.

[Machina]

Any of you tin god fucking jackasses happen to remember a document called the Zurich Accord?

Let's pretend for a minute that I don't give a fuck about it one way or the other. Thing is, that document was ratified by the UN. It's accepted by Utopia and denied by the Teragen. The central fucking thrust of the accord is that nova = baseline. So to try and call up a jury of "peers" culled from the ranks of you fucking lottery apes would never be accepted by any group that has the authority to exercise judgment. The Project would never sanction it. No government in the UN would. So what you'd end up with is a jury full of unaffiliated aliens and Terats. Nice. Bet that suits your purposes nicely, huh, Time Bitch?

One of two things is happening here:

One, you don't realize this, and you're simply fucking stupid regarding global politics and jurisdiction, and it never fucking occurred to you that - holy shit! - a jury comprised of novas only is in direct conflict with the cornerstone document that chimp-chump relations are based on!, or

Two, far more likely, you do realize that, and you think you're being slick and dealing yourself a stacked hand. Rope it in, bitch. Nobody's buying it.

[Warren Verona]

Fuck it. I'm not getting into this with you people. I lack the quad digit I.Q. and the patience.

I forgot that being on trial is automatic substitute for actually studying law and getting a badge for it. You think it was just handed to me? I had to pass exams and work my ass off to get it.

Next time I'll just blow someone away, apparently manslaughter comes with a fuckin' degree these days.

You know where to find me if you pull this stunt off.

If not, I've always got a couch for ya to crash on Nebula Nips.

I owe you at least that much, considering all you did for me.

[Timeslip]

Revenant,

What I did was a gift for you and Velvet; it was not a bartered favor to be called in at a later date. You owe me nothing.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Timeslip

Revenant,

What I did was a gift for you and Velvet; it was not a bartered favor to be called in at a later date. You owe me nothing.

Heh, nor did I accept it as a favor to be bartered for. Look, Slipster, what you did was a great thing. Because of that you earned my respect, not some guilt filled "well she did this for me so I guess I should help her out" kinda thing.

You have a place in my circle of respected acquaintances, a place that's not easy to get to. Heh. So trust me, if you need a couch to crash on, ya always got one.

Til you do something to piss me off then I get mad you and well... you know how that goes.

[Leliel]

Ah yes, the Zurich Accords:

Ok, the document was ratified by the UN. For most if not all of it's history, the UN has been suck-ups for various power groups. First they sucked the cock of the Soviet Union. Next on the train-pulling was various corporations and special interest groups.

Does anyone think the suck-a-thon has ended?

Looking for a second at Utopia from a neutral viewpoint, the Zurich Accords are just the latest example of the UN getting on it's knees to do what they do best.

If anyone thinks those fucking losers did anything positive with their declarations, accords, and resolutions, just look back at some incidents:

1: The whole Middle East. This is a cluster-fuck of nearly infinite proportions.

2: The Yugoslavian Chaos Zone. Not as bad as the middle east, but still a world of pain.

One could write volumes about these and other situations the UN has fucked up. The information is all out there for any interested party to read. End result is with the UN's history, you have to look at everything they do with an electron microscope, looking for the grains of truth in the ocean of bullshit. So any document written by that august body of wastes-of-oxygen is only worthy for use wrapping fish, as toilet paper, or as a school lesson in how to commit graft.

Fact is the UN is not an elected body, it's membership is appointed. As long as that is the case the membership will always be susceptable to national politics, special interests, and corruption.

The UN's history has proven that the body cannot be trusted as representatives of all humanity, no matter whether you believe of/give a damn about the Z-A or not. They are too biased.

[Machina]

Originally Posted By: Leliel

I don't like the UN and think they're wrong, and because I'm delusional, that is the exact same thing as them not being powerful or having sway over this issue. Apparently, I never dealt with cops when I was a baseline.

[The White Rat]

Timeslip:

We have not corresponded personally, but I have heard of your exploits and of your powers. If you can manipulate time, why not go back to the incident in question, and stop yourself from killing Excavator. Then you would have no need for a trial.

You might have to worry about a paradox, but it might be worth the price of freedom.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Leliel

Ah yes, the Zurich Accords:

Ok, the document was ratified by the UN. For most if not all of it's history, the UN has been suck-ups for various power groups. First they sucked the cock of the Soviet Union. Next on the train-pulling was various corporations and special interest groups.

Does anyone think the suck-a-thon has ended?

[snipped for length]

Regardless of anyone's personal views on the Zurich Accords,they are the reality we have to live with. So to channel Revenant for a moment: suck it up, Terat-boy.

[Warren Verona]

(whispers into Chloe's ear)

It's "piss off you sniveling little Terat bitch"

Now quit trying to steal my material. Go cooze on a Redwood Sylvy, and let the adults talk.

Go on... run along now...

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

(whispers into Chloe's ear)

It's "piss off you sniveling little Terat bitch"

Now quit trying to steal my material. Go cooze on a Redwood Sylvy, and let the adults talk.

Go on... run along now...

Thank you, Revenant. Now, piss off, you sniveling little corpse bitch.

I'm a quick learner.

[Typhoon]

Even if it's a spirited debate, it's nice to see the Zurich Accords getting five seconds of air-time over the 24/7 droning on and on about how-great-the-Null Manifesto-is that this site is usually chocked full of.

Seriously though, it's a good thing that only humanity is oh, so biased and the UN inparticular, and novas aren't at all.

[Leliel]

The UN was a corrupt organization long before the Null Manifesto.

My statement on it had actually nothing to do with Teras, just a statement of fact that the UN is a biased organization due to national and corporate interests. Nothing more, nothing less.

Going back to the original point of this thread though; Timeslip, even if you found an unbiased jury, where would you find an unbiased venue for the trial? I doubt anywhere in this world or dimension.

Fortunately, there may be other options.

[Roma]

Why does it take novas to understand why Timeslip did what she did?

[Leliel]

In one word: Predjudice

Though I do believe that there are baselines who are not biased or predjudiced against novas, finding some could be difficult. For that matter, the publicity of the case might make finding any unbiased jury difficult. Hell, Media in the last century made it hard to find juries sometimes.

I should be more specific. Baselines could indeed understand. Any baseline who ever found themselves facing a gun or knife could certainly understand self-defense as a concept.

What I meant by mentioning predjudice is some baselines my have subconscious or conscious bias against novas that could make their position as jurors suspect.

When you add in that Timeslip is a Terat, it gets even stickier. Though Terat and Terrorist are by no means the same, propaganda has led to their affiliation. Again, this makes jury selection in this matter somewhat problematical.

Timeslip has requested a Trial, not a Railroading/Kangaroo Court. I hope she gets what she asked for. More importantly, I hope she finds peace of her soul.

[Timeslip]

Quote:

If you can manipulate time, why not go back to the incident in question, and stop yourself from killing Excavator.

Two reasons:

First, even I do not have the raw power needed to travel back through the temporal stream. I know that it is theoretically possible to do so, and I aspire to such, but at this point I'm not aware of any of the One Race - other than perhaps Mal - who could manage it.

Second, my forte is dealing with the various timestreams that comprise the multiverse; "alternate realities" if you will. I am quite certain that, were I to venture back and prevent the unfortunate situation from happening, it would not change the event in this timestream, but merely spawn another in which the event did not take place. For those here, Excavator would remain dead.

I can tell you that the above is not an idle, top-of-the-head answer; I have given much consideration to both for years, with renewed investigation in the wake of the events in Ibiza and Amsterdam. If I am wrong, then I will be very pleased to be such, but I do not believe that I am.

[Machina]

Prejudice. You're fucking serious, aren't you? You know what? I think you're right. Those goddamn monkeys hate novas. Finding a baseline who isn't prejudiced or biased against novas, I mean, shit, that's got to be as hard as finding a member of the Teragen who isn't a knuckle-dragging, self-indulgent teenager who receieved either too much or too little deep dicking from daddy. Baselines hate novas. And that's why that dumb cunt Narcosis and her bullshit strip malls selling cozy, prepackaged rebellion sold sixteen million tee shirts last year to novas. Sure, probably a few were sold to baselines, right? But only to burn in efficy, I'm sure.

Walk on to any street in America and you'll have a dozen girls lining up to blow you in the space of ten minutes. "Prejudiced and biased" against novas? I can't fucking believe you pricks. Even with all the power, you want to live out some narcissistic fantasy life in which you're the victims of persecution against the big, bad majority. Tell you what; next time you feel the need to speak, I want you to stop, think, and then jerk off with a rod up your ass, and save us the fucking trouble of having to read your stupid bullshit.