Aberrant RPG - Speaking like a Quantum God

[Nyxx]

I've recently been using A Breed Apart to run a game for three players that have 8 year old 2nd Gen characters.

One of the characters has Linguistic Genius to compliment his M-Int 2 and Precocity, his player, thinking about the "Quantum Ping" effect that you can create with Node had a thought:

Is it possible to modulate the "ping" put off by the Node? If it is, that could be used to help develop a new language that could only be spoken by novas. The idea is to use these modulated Quantum pulses as the subtle shading, punctuation and other such subtext to the spoken language.

I have no problem with modulating the "ping" signal. It dosen't seem like something that would be inbalancing and it does seem like something a 2nd Gen nova might come up with.

Now my question: would this just be a language slot that you need a Node rating to pick up, or an entire Ability of it's own?

-Nyxx

[Alex Green]

Morse code.

It's iffy whether it could be done since it's implied that the "communcation is one way". I.e. when I ping someone it's a passive sense and not an active one, so the guy I "ping" doesn't feel it.

Even assuming that's not the case (our examples say it is), a single ping requires an action. That's not something that's going to go quickly.

[Nyxx]

Morse code.

It's iffy whether it could be done since it's implied that the "communcation is one way". I.e. when I ping someone it's a passive sense and not an active one, so the guy I "ping" doesn't feel it.

Even assuming that's not the case (our examples say it is), a single ping requires an action. That's not something that's going to go quickly.

I see what you're saying. I was sort of thinking of this too. But, if you are cultivating the ability to "open up" to another nova's Quantum signature...

Maybe have the language be a skill that requires you to have Node to use properly and rather than the "Node ping" the novas involved are sensing variances in the other nova's Quantum sig?

Basically, this is flavor text, but I want it to work in the setting without having to change the nature of things.

Maybe require Quantum Attunement instead of Node? Or both?

The basic idea is kinda neat, and I really do want to figure a way to make it work.

-Nyxx

[metaphysician]

I'd go with a skill, or maybe an enhancement.

[SkyLion]

Morse code.

It's iffy whether it could be done since it's implied that the "communcation is one way". I.e. when I ping someone it's a passive sense and not an active one, so the guy I "ping" doesn't feel it.

Even assuming that's not the case (our examples say it is), a single ping requires an action. That's not something that's going to go quickly.

Actually Alex I was always under the impression that a ping is an active sense...ie sonar pings...its called a ping becuase it "pings" off the target.

And Iactually love the idea of novas communicating with their nodes..this isnt morse code where it goes ping ping pong ping ping...I would say for dramatic purposes to allow such a clever idea. Screw the whole single ping takes an action. Sure make it take an action to sense novas but why not allow them to communicate this way? Dont let the rules (or Alex ::tongue ) dictate what is possible for *your* game.

Considering it is still going to be interpreted by the brain as communication I would guess at least parts of the brain related to language (not neccesarily speech) will be involved...Id just make it cost a a language slot or maybe two like the alien language rule from trinity.

Again...cool idea!

[Nyxx]

Actually Alex I was always under the impression that a ping is an active sense...ie sonar pings...its called a ping becuase it "pings" off the target.

And Iactually love the idea of novas communicating with their nodes..this isnt morse code where it goes ping ping pong ping ping...I would say for dramatic purposes to allow such a clever idea. Screw the whole single ping takes an action. Sure make it take an action to sense novas but why not allow them to communicate this way? Dont let the rules (or Alex ::tongue ) dictate what is possible for *your* game.

Considering it is still going to be interpreted by the brain as communication I would guess at least parts of the brain related to language (not neccesarily speech) will be involved...Id just make it cost a a language slot or maybe two like the alien language rule from trinity.

Again...cool idea!

Thank you! But I can't take all the credit, it was more my player's idea than mine.

The whole language is not just Quantum pulsing, the Node part is the tone, the part that give the language depth, emotion and structure. Basically, if you can't sense the Quantum part of the speech, it's like only hearing half or a quarter of what's being said.

I also just re-read the part of the Player's Guide that made me think this was possible again, on page 84-85 when El Muerte is hunting down the Terats in the Node example we get the following text:

El Muerte forced himself to relax and concentrated. As he did so, deep within his brain, the lump of grey matter that made up the nova's M-R node pulsed like a tiny quasar, releasing waves of quantum. Almost instantly, El Muerte felt the tell-tale "ping" of three other sources of quantum bounce back from below the warehouse

Obviously you are actively doing something when you "scan for Quantum" with your node.

I'll probably just require a couple of language slots and a Node rating to be able to speak this.

I'll have to post what we come up with in a few days.

Also, we have a fun house rule for Linguistics and Linguistic Genius. For Linguistics, we use the language slots from the T:PG (1;2;4;8;12). We also allow anyone with two or more in Linguistics to buy a new language slot for 2exp as long as it is plausible that the character has had the time to learn the language. (max languages someone can learn equals Int+M-Intx6), This allows us to have polyglots that aren't Phds in Linguistic Theory or something and for people to learn a ton of languages if they are so inclined.

(if you think that upper limit is too high, look up Richard Francis Burton on Wikipedia ::tongue )

The Natural Linguist Merit (2pt) allows the purchase of new slots for 1exp and +2 dice to Linguistics rolls.

Finally, the Linguistic Genius enhancement multiplies the language slots from Linguistics by (x5 or M-Int +1, whichever is higher) and removes the upper limit on languages learned, as well as it's other effects.

We also use the non-Aberrant specific bits in other White Wolf games that we play (old WOD, Orpheus, etc.)

There have been quite a few polyglot characters in my games. ::biggrin

-Nyxx

[SkyLion]

Good stuff!

,,

Actually those TPG language rules were just reverting back to white wolfs standard system...To simplify or whatever they reduced them greatly when aberrant came out. But in real life polyglots with doctorates in language can learn 16 languages.

,,

Also re: node pings...like I said it is active...which means that other novas will feel it when you ping them...kinda like how when the highlander immortals can "sense" each other ...I always thought that was cool...

[Alex Green]

Actually Alex I was always under the impression that a ping is an active sense...ie sonar pings...its called a ping becuase it "pings" off the target.

OK, let's assume for the moment that this is true... this is obviously using a different sense than normal. I.e. not only do you need a way to send the signal but you need a way to detect it, and even in El Murte's example the Terats didn't pick it up. The obvious sense to detect this would be Quantum Awareness... interesting. QA already picks up lots of information.

[Nyxx]

I've had some more input from my player on this, and he is of the opinion that having Quantum Attunement would be essential. It wouldn't need to be used actively (spending QP) but having the refined quantum perception along with a developed node would be the key.

I can see that, as you would be mostly using the node's ability to detect raw quantum energies, not doing an in-depth analysis of another nova's signature or using the sense to compensate for blindness.

His other thought is, that since all three characters have the Enhanced Vocal Organs BodyMod, that he could also develop a language that requires the ability to make more than one discreet vocalization at a time to use, possibly with ultra and infrasonic components.

It's a really interesting game to run, they're really going all out with the "born nova" concept.

-Nyxx

[astronomer]

This is actually a refreshingly new and interesting idea. ::cool While I enjoy minmaxing lethal combos o' death as much as the next person, this is nifty as a useful ability and flavor for a campaign. QA + Node + a linguistics slot means you're serious about having this (aside from the usefulness of QA and Node anyway). And for 2nd Gen novas of a certain bent, this provides a private means of communication that few can listen in on. Talk about exclusive! If you can't understand, you're just not cool. ::devil

[Nyxx]

This is actually a refreshingly new and interesting idea. ::cool While I enjoy minmaxing lethal combos o' death as much as the next person, this is nifty as a useful ability and flavor for a campaign. QA + Node + a linguistics slot means you're serious about having this (aside from the usefulness of QA and Node anyway). And for 2nd Gen novas of a certain bent, this provides a private means of communication that few can listen in on. Talk about exclusive! If you can't understand, you're just not cool. ::devil

"Eh, he's using English."

"How very FirstGen of him, what a rube!"

::tongue

Here's something we could use help on: we need a name for this. The language will have a name for itself, of course. We simple baseline players won't be able to say/understand it though.

All we've got so far are ideas like The Speech, True Voice, and Vox.

Any suggestions are welcome.

-Nyxx

[Sprocket]

This is starting to sound a bit like the "modem squeal" communication used by the Autobots & Decepticons in the upcoming Transformers movie (just snagged a copy of the novelization). The "battle language" of the Dune novels could be another parallel concept, come to think of it.

Anyhow, since this "quantum communication" isn't limited by the structure of vocal chords, "vocalizations" could be extremely brief and very information-dense, with the maximum limit of both being limited by one's Mega-Wits and/or Mega-Perception. And if novas are the only ones with a chance of understanding it, this would be another excellent way to show the divide between novas and the other Inspired, not to mention the baselines. ::thumbup1

As for a name? How about "Vox Deus" (voice of god)?

[SkyLion]

Leave it to you Sprocket to come up with a cool name!

[Alex Green]

Mechanically QA is a bit expensive, i.e. 1q per action. You could just make it a mega-perception enhancement and skip the linguistics dot.

[SkyLion]

Nyxx already said that using QA in this manner wouldnt require a QP Alex...

[Alex Green]

::blush

[Sprocket]

So, what is "Vox Dei" going to wind up as? An enhancement for Mega-Perception, a speciality of Linguistics, or something else entirely? ::unsure

[SkyLion]

So, what is "Vox Dei" going to wind up as? An enhancement for Mega-Perception, a speciality of Linguistics, or something else entirely? ::unsure

,,,,

Nyxx (he/she? ::unsure ) already commented that it would be 1 or two language slots but require the prerequisites of having a node and q-attune (some M-Per). An enhancment is too easy...I like that it is a learned skill...

[Nyxx]

Ok here's what we have so far.

------------------

Language: Vox Deus

Prerequisites: Mega-Perception 1+ (Quantum Attunement), Node 1+

Language slots: 2

Description: Vox Deus is the name chosen in a basline language for the first entirely nova language. This language was developed by the 2nd Generation children living in the Valley of the Five. The language is designed to take advantage of a nova's ability to create pulsations and ripples of Quantum energies from their node to help convey mathmatics, emotional context, punctuation, and other subtle undertones to the otherwise incomplete spoken language that is Vox Deus.

With the Quantum component, Vox Deus is the most information-dense language yet conceived of, a fluent speaker can convey extremely complex concepts and huge amounts of information with a few sentances. As a demonstration of the density of information conveyed with Vox Deus, it's inventor translated the Null Manefesto into a single spoken/pulsed sentance, and the Project Utopia charter into a single sentance and pulse-fragment.

The next project for the children will be coming up with an appropriate written language as well as desiging communications devices to properly convey their new language.

Vox Deus descriptive terms:

Speaking: The act of using vocal sound and pulse/ripples of Quantum simulatiously to communicate.

Grunting: using vocalizations as a sole means of communication. (Thus, all baseline communication/language is referred to as "grunting")

Pulse-fragment: information conveyed solely through Quantum pulsations and ripples.

-----------------

-Nyxx

[Centimane]

Nice. ::ultracool

[Sprocket]

Yes, very nice indeed. ::cool

AFA the written version of Vox Deus, you might want to take a look at Ted Chiang's short story "Understand" - it can be found in the collection Supermen: Tales Of The Posthuman Future. In the story, the Mega-Intelligent protagonist formulates a Vox Deus comparable language. It cannot be spoken with the baseline human vocal apparatus, and the "written" script consisted of ideograms recorded by video or holography.

[SkyLion]

I don't se how you could "write" a language consisting of raditating waves of quantum from a node. Not even a hologram would work. Maybe something like a psionic psychometry message would work, like a quantum braille stamped onto an object with a modified version of attunement...

[metaphysician]

Same way normal writing works. After all, you don't somehow encode sound into paper. You just have symbology that translates into different sounds.

[SkyLion]

We are talking next-gen MP. Written language works because their are symbols that can be represented. But evena symbol that stands for such dense quantum information could eventually be translated by baselines if it purely written. I think a clever use of attunement is much more clever, is in the spirit of what has been discussed so far, and means that even the "written" form is unaccesable to baselines...

,,

BTW, one of these days (And I hope so dearly) when Blue Thinder comes back, lets pitch this to him for the Prometheans Unbound.

[Centimane]

What's been described so far could already be encoded by baselines eventually. Condensing the Null Manifesto into a sentence is certainly impressive, but it's not 'beyond our comprehension'. Writing such a language would most certainly be possible, whether it could be decoded by humans or not.

However, bear in mind that there are dozens of ancient, baseline-created, dead languages that we can't decipher even after a century or more of effort put into it by some of the best linguists on the planet. There are entire civilizations that we know nothing about despite having extensive samples of their written language. And this is baseline language we're talking about. Ancient language (i.e. a long way from the complex, encoded languages that we use to shoot around information on our computers). If we can't break that stuff after a century of trying, then it's going to take at least a little while to make headway on an entirely new form of communication that it, presumably, even more complex than hexadecimal encoding. And speaking of which, a single string of six characters in hex code could be, and regularly is, used to encode large amounts of information. Get yourself a hex editor and take a look at some code strings from any old program. You'll be shocked at how rarely they use more than a small fraction of the available information space in those code strings. It's almost all spaces. And that's a baseline language, and it can be written quite neatly and tidily. If we can do it, then I completely fail to see how mega-intelligent and witty novas would have any problem doing the same, and much more besides.

[SkyLion]

Two questions Cottus.

,,

1.) What part of "requires a node and quantum attunement to even speak" makes you think Baselines will be able to decode it eventually?

,,

2.) Could you be specific about these ancient civilizations we have not deciphered? I am truly interested to know since I had thought we had decoded most of the civilizations we know about. Ancient China has extensive records. The Mesopotamian civilizations are the most ancient we know of and yet I was under the impression that we must have deciphered their writings, else how would we know so much of their history, places, and most especially the details and names of their mythology? Likewise, Egyptian heiroglyphics and the daunnting Mayan glyphs were cracked last century.

[Sprocket]

Re: Ancient written languages-

2 examples of mysterious ancient languages coming up! ::smile AFAIK, Linear A & B (used in ancient Greek/Cretan cultures) are still undecipherable to this day.

[Centimane]

Two questions Cottus.

,,

1.) What part of "requires a node and quantum attunement to even speak" makes you think Baselines will be able to decode it eventually?

Well, consider that our modern technology would look like magic to people from even two centuries ago. Do you really think that four or five centuries from now baselines (assuming they're still around) will still have such a poor grasp of quantum theory and how its energies work that they still won't be able to detect and decipher the energies for communication that we're talking about. And assuming that it's written, then it should happen even sooner. The problem with deciphering ancient languages is that most of them are dead, and have been for a long time. Deus Vox would have still-living speakers, and not all of them would necassarily have a problem with sharing information about it. All it took was one Rosetta Stone after all....

2.) Could you be specific about these ancient civilizations we have not deciphered? I am truly interested to know since I had thought we had decoded most of the civilizations we know about. Ancient China has extensive records. The Mesopotamian civilizations are the most ancient we know of and yet I was under the impression that we must have deciphered their writings, else how would we know so much of their history, places, and most especially the details and names of their mythology? Likewise, Egyptian heiroglyphics and the daunnting Mayan glyphs were cracked last century.

Rather than wasting forum space by filling up a large book's worth of everything we don't know about ancient civilizations, and the numerous, as yet undeciphered languages they spoke and wrote in, try this: enter 'ancient undeciphered languages' or something similar into a major search engine. Then spend the next several hours educating yourself on just how much scholars remain ignorant of regarding the ancient world.

'The Mesopotamian civilizations' would be which exactly? Do you mean the cities of Sumer, Accad, and Ur (i.e. they were walled-in settlements that were, at the largest, only a fraction of the size of a small city in America). Perhaps you're including the Babylonian empire that came along a few millenia afterwards? What else? That accounts for an area about the size of Iran. Yippee. What about the rest of the Middle East. Ancient Egypt was about the same size. Same thing with the Mayan civilization. They weren't all contemporary with each other, though there was some overlap. So far you've accounted for what, 15% of the ancient world civilizations? What about ancient China (no, not the ancient China you're talking about, those records go back a ways, but they don't go all the way back to the time contemporary with Sumer or the Indus valley civilization, and there was apparently a load of fully developed Chinese civilizations at that point in time too)? What about India? What of the rest of Africa and all of those ancient cities and ruins that are scattered across it's land? What about the Mediterrainian? What about the ancient languages of Sudan, Iran, and Crete? What about the Etruscan and Rhaetian cultures?

You named four ancient cultures or nations that we know the languages of. I just listed eight, I was generalizing, and I barely scratched the surface. Our knowledge of the freekin' dark ages is limited to say the least! To say that we know anything more than the barest glimmering of what was really going on during, say, the fifth millenium BC would be an exaggeration of the grossest variety. There are far more ancient archeological sites filled with mysterious glyphs and alphabets that we can't read than there are sites with glyphs that we can. That's why ancient history always focuses solely on one small part of the world. It's not because that's the only place where people had a civilization complete with a written language, it's because the Mesopotamian cultures are the only ones whose writings we've been able to make sense out of.

[SkyLion]

I abase myself in ignorance before the Breadth and Depth of the Mighty Cottus, Keeper of Lore which had been previously unknown to me.

,,

((translation: "Geez! Bite my freakin head off why dontcha!" ::wacko ))

[Centimane]

It's good to see you know your place, lowly worm! ::angry ::tongue

That's just what you get for typing up a huge paragraph's worth to ask me one question that you could have answered for yourself by typing in a couple of words into a search engine. ::wink (Ask me to do all the work, willya!?)

[SkyLion]

Well excuuuuuse me! For some strange reason I thought this was a freakin' forum! My Mistake... ::tongue ::wink

[Alex Green]

Well, consider that our modern technology would look like magic to people from even two centuries ago. Do you really think that four or five centuries from now baselines (assuming they're still around) will still have such a poor grasp of quantum theory and how its energies work that they still won't be able to detect and decipher the energies for communication that we're talking about. And assuming that it's written, then it should happen even sooner. The problem with deciphering ancient languages is that most of them are dead, and have been for a long time. Deus Vox would have still-living speakers, and not all of them would necassarily have a problem with sharing information about it. All it took was one Rosetta Stone after all....

Maybe. Then again, maybe not.

Look at what's needed to access this "language" for a nova, i.e. Q-Aware. Q-Aware is such a fine tool that it lets you make medical scans and the like. Then learning the language is so hard it takes two language slots.

I don't know what "four or five centuries" will bring, but I do feel comfortable saying that it appears unlikely abby or trinity science is up to it without quantum gadgetry (which by definition isn't baseline tech).

[Nyxx]

As a further update. The player who originally came up with the idea has said that he plans on having his character develop a Quantum gadget specifically for writing this language.

The idea is that this "Quantum Stylus" will allow for writing that you will need enhanced perceptions (Node 1+ and Q Attunement) to be able to fully comprehend.

-Nyxx

[metaphysician]

Re: Ancient written languages-

2 examples of mysterious ancient languages coming up! ::smile AFAIK, Linear A & B (used in ancient Greek/Cretan cultures) are still undecipherable to this day.

Linear A, yes. Linear B got translated some years ago.

[SkyLion]

As a further update. The player who originally came up with the idea has said that he plans on having his character develop a Quantum gadget specifically for writing this language.

The idea is that this "Quantum Stylus" will allow for writing that you will need enhanced perceptions (Node 1+ and Q Attunement) to be able to fully comprehend.

-Nyxx

,,

Didn't like my attunement idea? Or is that how the Stylus will work?

[Psilord]

I would suggest a look at "Qualith" from TSR's "The Illithiad", an accessory about mind flayers (p. 56).

The language described is meant to be the written version of telepathic speech, or close enough to that to be helpful here. It consists of four striated lines, alternately solid or broken. Each line represents information in itself AND each also modifies the meaning of the other three. This leads to a neccessity of scanning all four at once to capture the true meaning of the writing.

A mind flayer uses four tentacles to read this script, a human four fingers. I would suggest this language as the base for "Vos Deus", but with a fifth line added to represent the quantum fluctuations and patterns needed to fully comprehend the intended meaning.

Originally the Qualith language was meant to be felt (raised or sunken writing), but novas could also learn to read it purely visually.

A very effective means of making it virtually impossible for baselines to ever truly understand it is to say the nova reading it recreates the quantum fluctuations and patterns of the fifth line in his own node. This gives the final bit of true understanding to the text, and makes understanding beyond the reach of any without a node.

Think something similar to five stacked lines of morse code, each changing the meaning of the other four. A damned hard thing to translate.

[Sprocket]

Re: Linear B-

::laugh I stand corrected, then. ::tongue

Re: Vox Deus & Qualith-

That's not a bad idea at all. If I'm reading Psilord's take on this right, the most that even a Chitra Bhanu quantakinetic would be able to perceive about it is that it's a form of communication involving quantum fluctuations & the M-R Node. The chib could see the "quantum" portion of the text, but would remain unable to comprehend it. Very frustrating for the chib, much less an ISRAn. ::brick

That's just the thing for 1- adding a bit of mystery to novas/aberrants, and 2- creating many great plot seeds for both Aberrant and Trinity involving records written in Vox Deus. ::devil

AFA "baseline"/non-Inspired technology ever being able to "crack the code" of written Vox Deus? I won't say that it wouldn't be possible, but it will likely take some serious advancement before that could happen - say, about a thousand years' worth? (Just feeling a bit nostalgic for the old "Fourth Millennium" / "Trinity 2997" setting here, folks. ::smile )

[Sprocket]

Just so you guys know, Nyxx has offered Vox Deus up to be included in Aberrant: The New Flesh, and it has been accepted. The basic concept seen on this thread has been expanded greatly, and the result has pleased Nyxx to no end.

[SkyLion]

Good! ::thumbup

,,

Maybe now he (she?) will ante up and run a game here for us! ::huh That or at least answer a PM... ::glare ::grumble::grumble:::

::tongue

[Sprocket]

Well, I can confirm that Nyxx is definitely a guy. As to why he hasn't answered PMs much or ran any games here at EON, he's been working overtime to help pay for his summertime electric bill. Having a working air conditioner in Florida is pretty much mandatory for survival. ::smile

AFA Vox Deus, I've been in charge of most of the expansion work, and I'm just about finished with it. Cottus Centimane is currently whipping up a set of 35 ideograms for it. I can tell you right now that this language will also be a great new tool for Trinity Storytellers (especially if they have a sadistic bent ::devil ) as well as Aberrant STs.