Trinity RPG - Will there ever be Coalition Aberrants or psions?

[Nero's Boot]

As we've discovered, Coalition breeders've been unable to create true Coalition psion hybrids or Aberrant hybrids. Even the fury phyle is really just made of deformed, psychotic monsters without actual Quantum powers or Mega-Attribute/enhancements. And as for psychic hybrids, there's been even less success than that!

Why is this? Why can't the Coalition gain acess to paranormal abilities? Is the DNA sequence that causes Aberrants, psions and the Inspired simply too unique to the Human species to ever be stolen by the Coalition? Or is it just that the Coalition needs more time to examine the Aberrant and psion DNA they've acquired thus far?

And furthermore, have any of you used furies in your campaigns? And if so, how similar to Aberrants did you make them?

--this is something that intrigues me greatly NB

[metaphysician]

One possibility is that the Coalition already has a latent, low level quantum potentiality. This interferes with psion-phyles, because quantum and psi interfere destructively. As for why they can't breed nova-phyles? Could be they don't have enough information and experience yet, could be the Colony isn't giving them the necessary information, could be both. In particular, has the Colony actually given them genetic material from an actual aberrant nova, as opposed to a taint mutant?

[Nero's Boot]

One possibility is that the Coalition already has a latent, low level quantum potentiality. This interferes with psion-phyles, because quantum and psi interfere destructively. As for why they can't breed nova-phyles? Could be they don't have enough information and experience yet, could be the Colony isn't giving them the necessary information, could be both. In particular, has the Colony actually given them genetic material from an actual aberrant nova, as opposed to a taint mutant?

Perhaps the genetic flexibility of the Coalition is a very, very specific and entirely unconscious version of Biokinesis, thus "locking" them into one psionic archtype? Consider the Qin; the Doyen would've preferred the Qin as anti-Aberrant soldiers, but learnt quickly that Qin had reached a psionic endpoint, evolutionarily. Maybe this has happened to the Coalition!

And yes, The Colony and its Aberrants've actually mated with Coalition breeders. It flat-out states that in Alien Encounter: Deception. Quite a few furies are descendents of The Colony; this was done on purpose, as The Colony has power over its progeny. Hence, all the Coalition breeders're really doing is creating a new species of sub-Aberrant mutant to fill out their corps of soldiers.

--so far, all the Coalition has managed to get is a highly Tainted sub-Aberrant phyle NB

[metaphysician]

I doubt the Coalition are innately psionic, then, because they wouldn't be able to breed with actual aberrants.

[Alex Green]

...The Colony has power over its progeny. Hence, all the Coalition breeders're really doing is creating a new species of sub-Aberrant mutant to fill out their corps of soldiers.

One has to wonder if the word "progeny" has the traditional meaning here.

--so far, all the Coalition has managed to get is a highly Tainted sub-Aberrant phyle NB

Funny that, one would almost think it was planned. ::laugh

[Sprocket]

One has to wonder if the word "progeny" has the traditional meaning here.

Yeah, things do get a bit muddled with the Coalition breeders get involved. ::laugh

OTOH, considering that the Colony apparently hijacked the Kuan Yin colony ship for purposes of using the colonists on board as breeding stock with itself & its forces of Taintmonkeys, (don't have the page reference right now) I really don't see why it would balk at directly breeding with the Coalition. It's very likely that both the Colony & the Coalition breeders are old hands at tentacle rape anyways... ::devil

[Alex Green]

Yah, but assume the Colony has the ability to transform baselines into taint monkey 3rd gen "abbies". This BTW appears to be a standard power of the really high level aberrants in the Trinity era.

In this case his "offspring" could both be subject to his control and never get nodes by definition.

Further, assume that he does this and then orders his "off spring" to be the source of the Coalition's genetic base.

Granted, this contradicts some of what Trinity has claimed, but Trinity has real problems telling the difference between real novas and their creations anyway. If it makes the rules saner I've not problem arguing that "The Colony has bred with the Coalition" means "The Colony's organization and not him personally has bred with the Coalition".

[Sprocket]

In this case his "offspring" could both be subject to his control and never get nodes by definition.

Further, assume that he does this and then orders his "offspring" to be the source of the Coalition's genetic base.

I find that very plausible for three reasons.

1- The Colony and the Coalition have never really trusted each other, providing perfect motive for such subtle backstabbing.

2- The Colony thinks of and treats his "3rd-gen" abbies as nothing but a *very* large supply of cheap cannon fodder, so he's fine with sending a few of them off to the Coalition for extended tentacle-rape sessions which they might not survive.

3- The Colony may not have any nova-caliber aberrants to spare from his Sol system forces. Most such Colony followers are busy harassing the nova worlds, making the few he does have immediately at hand too valuable to waste on tentacle-rape.

[Sprocket]

Re: The Kuan Yin-

Found the reference in question - Trinity: Stellar Frontiers, p. 104. According to the listing the colony ship was sent out by China as reinforcements for the Khantze Lu Ge colony, but was attacked by aberrants enroute & never made it to Alpha Centauri. The Kuan Yin was determined by the Upeo wa Macho to have either been captured by the aberrants or atomized, due to the lack of wreckage.

[Rorx]

2- The Colony thinks of and treats his "3rd-gen" abbies as nothing but a *very* large supply of cheap cannon fodder, so he's fine with sending a few of them off to the Coalition for extended tentacle-rape sessions which they might not survive.

By "3rd-gen" do you mean the Sub-Aberrants that he creates by infecting humans in the areas he or his similarly powered associates control? These would be useless to the Coalition for trying to breed with to create actual Aberrants, but could still create the Furies - who seem from the Deception book to be little more than random Phyle Sub-Aberrants.

[Alex Green]

By "3rd-gen" do you mean the Sub-Aberrants that he creates by infecting humans in the areas he or his similarly powered associates control? These would be useless to the Coalition for trying to breed with to create actual Aberrants, but could still create the Furies - who seem from the Deception book to be little more than random Phyle Sub-Aberrants.

Exactly. Far too much in Trinity makes sense if the "3rd-gen" are "Sub-Aberrants".

It's really hard for me to see the Colony giving real Aberrant (i.e. nova) blood to the Coalition when he has alternatives that are infected with taint and look pretty much the same. This way the Coalition gets all the disadvantages and none of the advantages of mass producing "novas" (actually sub-abbies).

Maybe we should give the Colony a dot in Mega-Int and/or Mega-Manip. The Coalition really seems to have gotten the short end of the stick here.

[Rorx]

On the other hand the actions of the Aberrants in the Deception scenario are too intelligent/planned to have been done by the typical sub-Aberrant. That would suggest that the Aberrant contact team consisted of several types 1st-3rd Gen (as defined in the TSH on the Wiki) and sub-Aberrants, with the Coalition only being able to take samples from the sub-Aberrants.

Given the nature of the universe discussions, you could argue that the Coalitions ability to sample genetic material and fast-breed it into a sub-species is a form of paramorph/Daredevil ability and hence they will never be able to create a psi- or quantum-active sub-species in a full-form.

Mind you it is implied in the discussion of the Ark that the Coalition found or took over the Ark rather than built it themselves, in which case they could run into the people who made the thing in the first place. Or perhaps they did make it in some distant past and the present Coalition is a degenerate (cultural/technological) form of the original race.

Maybe we should give the Colony a dot in Mega-Int and/or Mega-Manip. The Coalition really seems to have gotten the short end of the stick here.

The Coalition still has the advantages of numbers, and if they could breed some pheromonal control into subsequent generations of Furies then the Aberrants would be hard pressed to beat them in a fight. Mass produced Spinals, high tech weapons and mass produced Furies is going to be a hard act to beat, especially if they can (as some Aberrants do) dictate (to some degree at least) the powers that the Furies develop.

[Alex Green]

Given the nature of the universe discussions, you could argue that the Coalitions ability to sample genetic material and fast-breed it into a sub-species is a form of paramorph/Daredevil ability and hence they will never be able to create a psi- or quantum-active sub-species in a full-form.

I'd always considered it a q-gadget-ish type thing.

Mind you it is implied in the discussion of the Ark that the Coalition found or took over the Ark rather than built it themselves, in which case they could run into the people who made the thing in the first place. Or perhaps they did make it in some distant past and the present Coalition is a degenerate (cultural/technological) form of the original race.

Now *that* is a point I hadn't picked up on, but it does make a fair bit of sense.

The Coalition still has the advantages of numbers, and if they could breed some pheromonal control into subsequent generations of Furies then the Aberrants would be hard pressed to beat them in a fight. Mass produced Spinals, high tech weapons and mass produced Furies is going to be a hard act to beat, especially if they can (as some Aberrants do) dictate (to some degree at least) the powers that the Furies develop.

I'm iffy on this. Warp + Q6+ abbies is probably an unbeatable combo, especially if we up that to Q8. I'm also doubious that mass producing taint infected armies is a good thing.

[Rorx]

Nope the Breeders are definitely using a natural ability rather than gadgets, although the rapid growth to maturity I would guess is done with devices. Having said that once it is established each sub-species (Envoy, Drone etc.) is self-reproducing in its own arcology type section of the Ark.

To paraphrase the book: "Each asexual Breeder can not only mate with any other species, but carries within it the ability to sample alien genetic material, break it apart and incorporate select pieces into its own matrix. A Breeder can also consciously express or repress specific gene sequences within itself. The races greatest manipulative strength lies in its ability to conceive offspring tailormade to individual specifications."

This suggests that the tainted Breeders should be able to exhibit some Aberrant powers themselves? It does support them being able to put the particular gene sequence for Psi/Quantum powers into a sub-species. The fact that they haven't been able to do so for Psi, which in humans is about 10 times more common than Quantum potential is telling, and suggests that they will never be able to get it right for either.

The alternative is that their racial ability is already linked to quantum power in some way but cannot be shifted into a more general Quantum potential. A parallel for this is seen in both the Qin and Chromatics whose psionic potential is already expressed racial in certain patterns and unable to be shifted into the broad spectrum potential of the Human race.

The Coalition as invaders to the Ark:

"For all the arks teeming life there are entire sections near the outer hull that are left abandoned, packed with gear whose use is now forgotten. The ark provides the Coalition with a base of operations and a means to transport itself from star to star, beyond that its capablities are largely untapped."

This suggests that either the Coalition are not the original builders of the ark, or that they have regressed in their understanding of the technology that surrounds them - perhaps due to the concentration on the breeding of interesting lifeforms rather than maintaining and advancing the technology about them. If they apparentlyn had access to FTL technology many centuries ago when they set out from near the centre of the galaxy then if they had continued advancing you would reasonably expect them to have improved upon it, and probably to have achieved at least limited range hard-tech teleportation by now.

Warp+Q6+Abbies unbeatable. Yep it probably is, but how many of those Q6 Abbies are going to get involved in such a fight? More likely to be a dozen or couple of dozen lower powered ones and potentially hundreds of sub-Aberrants. This could be more of a match for the thousands of spinals with high-tech weapons the Coalition are going to have available, not to mention the potentially dozens or hundreds of their fighter craft.

[Alex Green]

RE: Ark

Thank you.

Warp+Q6+Abbies unbeatable. Yep it probably is, but how many of those Q6 Abbies are going to get involved in such a fight?

Depends on what's at stake and who's giving the orders.

We know the Colony is heavy into taking over the Earth, we know he knows about the Ark and basically it's opperating according to his plan. If I were him (which granted assumes a level of sanity that is not shown) I'd have the Ark and Earth beat each other up and then move in to take out the winner.

[Finbar]

Just to be evil: This assumes that the Ark is opposed solely by Earth, and that none of the proxies get involved. Or, for that matter, teleporters aren't used on the assualt on the Ark itself.

1) Non-terran Allies: Don't forget that Eden has a number of Q6+ novas, and that these novas have helped Earth before (most notably Apollo Millikin vs. Chromatics). Even if The Colony sets up some sort of distraction, enough novas should get through to help.

2) Teleporters: Blink in, and Warp out, using a two man team. Within a few minutes, you have three new open spaces in the Ark, all bout the radius of 1.5km. Given that they should be able to repeat with hours, and that you should be able to get more than just one team going, the Ark is not going to last that long...

3) Proxies: And if a single two-man team can do that, imagine what happens if Atwan gets involved. Especially if Herzog helps in determining the best places to attack.

Sorry if I'm just not seeing the Ark as a long-term threat. It would nonetheless be a confrontation for the ages...

FR

[BlueNinja]

Finbar, that is scary tactical planning. However, given that the Coalition has taken psions prisoner, it is likely that they will have some degree of warning from Clairvoyents or Pretercog/Intuition almost-Abbies. I wouldn't play it as a trump card, because the Warp psions are the smallest group. Every group that fails in their attack cuts down on their numbers far more drastically than an equal number of Legion/Norca who bite the bullet in attacking the Coalition directly.

[Finbar]

Being scary is what I do best...I would pay money to see the reaction of those watching the screens that day...

"Sir, entire sections of the ship are not there."

"Well, find it. Entire sections don' just disappear."

"But they are, sir."

"Send in the sasqs."

The actual trumps are Atwan/Herzog and the novas; the teleporter teams are just a distraction before the main event. They may see them coming, but I don't see any actual defense. And that assumes that they have powerful enough clears by that point to do more than just get a bad feeling. Worse, once they get going, there's no escape; how do escape someone who can see where you are going backed by someone who can meet you there? Straight up: I just don't see the Ark surviving.

Even worse: I wonder if any of the Edenites can pull off a Quantum Inferno? Throw that into the situation and its over for the Coalition.

Of course, the Coalition could surrender...

FR

[Rorx]

In addition your talking about the even rarer Ferrymen - those who have learnt the Mode 5 Warping power of Transportal - which is going to be a small subset of the ~250 surviving Upeo. You are also assuming that they will be using a number of the last 17 remaining WEAR bitoech enhancers for Transportal. And lastly you are assuming that they are at least Psi 8 in order to be able to effect an area of 1.28km at a time. All in all there isn't going to be many of those teams available. Having said all that, it is pretty much what I had been thinking of as well.

The other method using the Upeo, is in combined psion teams of commandos actually going into the Ark itself and planting Fusion warheads in suitable locations - taking out the breeder chambers might be an idea. However I would suggest you make any attack against the artificial blackhole power generation system or it's controls out of bounds unless you hit it more than a LY from Earth!

That's something else to consider, it could be a long drawn out war, as the Ark seems to take quite a while slowing down from FTL. It was detected at a fast sub-light speed back in Nov/Dec 2119 say, contacted initially in Dec 2119 during a test flight for the Leviathans and didn't stop to raid Erebus until Nov 2121, about 2 years later.

Assuming that it can't be detected and/or effected while in FTL Earth forces should still have 2 years, or perhaps halve it to 1 year, worth of warning and intial operations before it reaches Earth/Luna orbit.

[Alex Green]

And lastly you are assuming that they are at least Psi 8 in order to be able to effect an area of 1.28km at a time.

Now wait, if they did this on the Earth, it'd leave a 1.28 crater?

[Rorx]

Now wait, if they did this on the Earth, it'd leave a 1.28 crater?

Yep, thats right. And also cause some really severe weather and blast effects from the volume of air taken along with the rest of it. Hence Transportal is always used in space to space movements involving ships, or fleets.

Even without a WEAR a basic Psi 6 jumper (the minimum to be a jumper) can move a 60m diameter. That covers most of the hybrids and perhaps even a Scarab scout/frigate? In addition, since it is a diameter, you can pack additional ships around the sides and top/bottom of your main ship. So a 1.28km diameter can take a freighter in the centre and quite a few ~300m long frigates and 12m fighters

Personally I think the ferryman should be able to control it enough to just use the diameter he needs for what he wants to take with him from the base power. An additional power with a higher cost and greater difficulty would be required to make it selective, so you only took what you wanted to. This is obviously a possibility as it is effectively what Atwan used during the Exodus, although she took it to the extreme of taking all the psion particles in the volume so no-one could track where they went (presumably either Otha or the Doyen is who she had in mind for that).