Trinity RPG - nWoD Conversion thoughts

[jsnead]

Also, I've been thinking a lot about converting Trinity to nWoD, and so here are my basic ideas for the conversion:

• Use the nWoD system, except change Computer to Engineering (reflecting both the skills in Trinity and the fact that in the 22nd century, computers have ceased to be as arcane and mysterious as they are considered today.
• All rolls for Modes are Psi + Mode
• All Psi costs are reduced by 1 (to a minimum cost of 0 for 1 & 2 dot abilities, and 1 for 3+ dot abilities).
• Learning a Mode gives the character both the standard and the alternative techniques (from the Order book), and all characters learning a particular Aptitude learn both basic techniques.
• Apply all powers quite broadly, so (for example) Metabolic Efficiency (Adaptation 1) allows the character to both cure minor diseases like colds or the flu and to clean herself with her power both more rapidly and more effectively than with a hot shower. Similarly, both Psychomorphing 4 and Transmogrify 4 allow healing lethal damage in the same manner as Iatrosis 3 (Metamitosis)
• Use the Spell Factors charts in Mage: The Awakening pp. 117-119 for Target, Area, and Duration. Also, add a table for range (see below).
• Spending 1 additional point of Psi reduces the "spell factor" penalties by 2.
• Use the rules from this post that do not contradict any of the above points.
• Additional points of Psi are purchased as Gnosis in Mage (3 dot Merit in chargen, Current Rating x 8 with XP, Modes are purchased as New dots x 5, Auxilary Modes cost 8 XP.
• Drop Virtue, Vice, and Morality. All Willpower is recovered upon waking from at least 4 hours of sleep (as well as recovering all Willpower at the end of a Story or 1 point of Willpower after achieving a significant goal).

Range Table (short range)

Range........Dice Penalty

Touch..........None

1 meter........-2

2 meters......-4

5 meters......-6

10 meters....-8

Range Table (long range)*

Range................Dice Penalty

Listed Range........None

2 x Range.............-2

5 x Range.............-4

10 x Range...........-6

20 x Range...........-8

* In all cases, Attunement Range is the maximum possible range for any Mode that lacks a Familiarity-based range. Ranges based on Familiarity (like those for Translocation or Transmassion) cannot be increased.

Thoughts?

[Blue Thunder]

Learning a Mode gives the character both the standard and the alternative techniques (from the Order book), and all characters learning a particular Aptitude learn both basic techniques.

You learn both Basic Techniques normally, with the old rules. I'd also shy away from giving the character two techniques for the price of one, since characters can also learn other techniques created themselves of by NPC characters (IOW, by the ST). Why should other techniques cost more to learn? Instead, I think it would be better if characters didn't have to learn the "standard" techniques from the main book in order to advance a level in a Mode. If a character would rather take a technique from one of the Order books instead, and then advance to the next Mode dot without taking the "standard" technique, that would be nice.

Apply all powers quite broadly, so (for example) Metabolic Efficiency (Adaptation 1) allows the character to both cure minor diseases like colds or the flu and to clean herself with her power both more rapidly and more effectively than with a hot shower. Similarly, both Psychomorphing 4 and Transmogrify 4 allow healing lethal damage in the same manner as Iatrosis 3 (Metamitosis)

But one of the plot issues with Bio-K is that it cannot heal damage. Ever. It's a constant source of frustration for the Norca. It's also what essentially defines the line between Bio-K and Vita-K. If shifters can heal damage to themselves (at any level), then they've essentially broken down the barriers put in place by the Doyen.

Use the nWoD system, except change Computer to Engineering (reflecting both the skills in Trinity and the fact that in the 22nd century, computers have ceased to be as arcane and mysterious as they are considered today.

Trinity did this originally; Computers was a Specialty of Engineering. Probably using the same reasoning you did. But it became completely burdensome; almost every time players rolled Engineering, they were rolling for Computers. It doesn't make sense that an experienced hacker would know how to build a VARG or repair a starship. In the Trinity Player's Guide, Computer was made into a seperate Ability, and I think that was for the best. Especially given that you could then take Computer Specialties like Hacking. So I would say have both Computers and Engineering. And even though comps are commonplace in 2120, that doesn't mean everyone knows how they work. Look at how long cars have been around...and look at how many people don't know how to fix or upgrade them.

[jsnead]

You learn both Basic Techniques normally, with the old rules. I'd also shy away from giving the character two techniques for the price of one, since characters can also learn other techniques created themselves of by NPC characters (IOW, by the ST). Why should other techniques cost more to learn? Instead, I think it would be better if characters didn't have to learn the "standard" techniques from the main book in order to advance a level in a Mode. If a character would rather take a technique from one of the Order books instead, and then advance to the next Mode dot without taking the "standard" technique, that would be nice.

I'm looking for a compromise between the freeform and standard rules, and with the freeform rules, if you learn a Mode dot, you can do everything with it. I'd instead rule that if someone can come up with another use for a Mode that isn't covered and isn't too powerful, their character can learn to use it w/o XP (although the first use in any stressful situation should likely require both spending a Willpower point and making the roll as some sort of moderate penalty). Essentially, I'm looking for something like the freeform rules, except that every version of freeform rules I've seen (especially with official one in the PG) is a horridly overcomplex nightmare to use that neither I nor anyone I game with would ever consider using.

But one of the plot issues with Bio-K is that it cannot heal damage. Ever. It's a constant source of frustration for the Norca. It's also what essentially defines the line between Bio-K and Vita-K. If shifters can heal damage to themselves (at any level), then they've essentially broken down the barriers put in place by the Doyen.

Once again, Norca self-healing is perfectly possible with the freeform rules (Automending p. 175 of the PG).

Trinity did this originally; Computers was a Specialty of Engineering. Probably using the same reasoning you did. But it became completely burdensome; almost every time players rolled Engineering, they were rolling for Computers. It doesn't make sense that an experienced hacker would know how to build a VARG or repair a starship. In the Trinity Player's Guide, Computer was made into a seperate Ability, and I think that was for the best. Especially given that you could then take Computer Specialties like Hacking. So I would say have both Computers and Engineering. And even though comps are commonplace in 2120, that doesn't mean everyone knows how they work. Look at how long cars have been around...and look at how many people don't know how to fix or upgrade them.

I know, and given that in nWoD (and Trinity for that matter) Science covers all sciences, and Academics covers most of rest of formal human knowledge, having a separate skill solely for computers seems silly. Also, I have seen engineering rolled regularly for any space-based game - fixing the ship, enhancing the sensors...

[madcat82]

Might I ask why you want to convert the rules?

Simply curious...

[jsnead]

Might I ask why you want to convert the rules?

I find nWoD to be a cleaner, faster, and easier system and when I roleplay, I want a system that is as transparant and easy to use as possible. For reference, my two current favorite rule systems are Cinematic Unisystem and nWoD, because they are both fast, easy to use and exceedingly transparant.

[metaphysician]

I can see the interest, and for Trinity and Adventure, it might work. Problem is Aberrant. WoD2.0 is not well designed for handling damage/defense above a certain threshold, IMO, at least outside of a limited context of vehicles.

[jsnead]

I can see the interest, and for Trinity and Adventure, it might work. Problem is Aberrant. WoD2.0 is not well designed for handling damage/defense above a certain threshold, IMO, at least outside of a limited context of vehicles.

While this is true in a general sense, Armory corrects much of this problem. Also, there is an excellent Aberrant nWoD coversion called More Than Human. The supers created in this system are considerably less powerful than high Quantum Aberrants, but in many ways this improves compatability with Trinity.

[metaphysician]

Not *really*. Armory is nice in that it provides stats for alot of military hardware, but the fundamental issue is that damage and defense are both represented by two very different mechanics each. It makes converting anything preexisting into it a royal pain, as you need to figure out how to properly balance them.

As for weaker aberrants for the Trinity setting, sorry, but I disagree again. YMMV, but I think the setting works best when "1 squad of combat capable psions + military weaponry = 1 low level aberrant" and works up from there.

[Blue Thunder]

Once again, Norca self-healing is perfectly possible with the freeform rules (Automending p. 175 of the PG).

I know, but that contradicts canon from the other books. Strongly contradicts canon. The Freeform is system isn't considered part of the standard system, and that isn't the only way that it contradicts canon either (with freeform, telepathy has unlimited range while it doesn't in standard).

Again, if shifters can heal health levels to themselves, that means they've broken down the barriers implemented by the Doyen. And that's impossible, unless a special technological process were develeoped to allow just such a thing...

(This would be Bright Continent forshadowing)

[Finbar]

So...a shifter can control every facet of his own being, except something as basic as healing? Does that also mean that he shouldn't be able to make himself more heat resistant (by creating a better cooling system) or grow wings (as that would cross-over into Psychokinesis)? Or that he shouldn't be able to crawl on walls (a Teleportation effect)? Or even use bio-sense (which is a limited form of Clairsentience)?

Sorry; not getting your logic. There is bound to some minor cross-over, especially with competent players...

FR

[Blue Thunder]

So...a shifter can control every facet of his own being, except something as basic as healing?

Yes. And since when was healing "basic"? Two Modes of Vitakinesis are entirely devoted to it.

Like I said, it was something the Doyen implemented into the Prometheus Chambers. Its hardwired into every shifter, whether they want it to be or not. The books explain that Norca researchers spend ridiculous amounts of time trying to break down this barrier, but cannot. So unless you've got Auxiliary Iatrosis, you can't do it. And if they could do it, it would have been front and center in Terra Verde.

If you want it in your campaign, go ahead.

[Finbar]

1) I guess my consideration was that they should have access to healing their physical selves, but only for bashing and lethal. They wouldn't be able to heal their damaged psyches because they just wouldn't see that as damage; it would require a vitakinetic to heal that. Also, I wouldn't allow them to heal aggravated damage or regenerate lost limbs; they can only manipulate what they have, and that mass is just no longer part of them. I could allow regeneration ONLY if they had access to a lot of food, and at least five dots in Psychomorphing (he's essentially creating a new organ, making it basically like Redundancy).

2) I mean, as per the core book, they can already ignore wound penalties, and increase their health levels, albeit only temporary and at a nasty cost. Still, that's only a Psychomorphing 4 ability; why not allow some minor healing as an ability at Psychomorphing 5 (say, 1 level per two successes)?

FR

[metaphysician]

I vaguely remember something in one of the supplements mentioning that if a Biokinetic tried altering someone elses pattern, it'd work. . . for a few hours, and then their pattern would decay, leaving them with some nasty aggravated damage. This could cover healing others quite nicely. Healing self, again, I could see bashing or lethal, but *definitely* not agg. Agg seems to inherently involve pattern destruction, and Biokinesis is pattern alteration, not creation.

[Blue Thunder]

There's no aggravated damage in Trinity.

If a biokinetic can heal his body, why not his mind? The brain is just another organ of the body to a shifter. They can already affect it with several techniques. So if you allow them to heal their bodies, why not their minds as well?

I should also point out that if shifters can heal their own bodies, than telepaths should be able to heal their own minds (and the minds of others) but the books have said that they cannot do that either. That's the purpose of Mentatis...just like healing the body is the purpose of Iatrosis. I know it would make sense for shifters to heal their bodies (and telepaths to heal their minds), but the Doyen seperated the abilities of psions on purpose to limit their induvidual usefulness. It would also make sense for vitakinetics to learn certain telepathy and biokinesis techniques and for electrokinetics to learn to manipulate magnetic fields, but the Doyen also saw to those things.

But like I said, perhaps in Bright Continent, a special method is developed that allows psions to break down the Doyen barriers...perhaps.

[BlueNinja]

If a biokinetic can heal his body, why not his mind? The brain is just another organ of the body to a shifter. They can already affect it with several techniques. So if you allow them to heal their bodies, why not their minds as well?

Is there a way to allow a biokinetic to temporaroly heal damage? So that the damage suffered still has to be healed either with time or with VK, but in the middle of a battle or other life-threatening situation, the BK can close his wounds long enough to get to somewhere safe?

[Finbar]

1)

I vaguely remember something in one of the supplements mentioning that if a Biokinetic tried altering someone elses pattern, it'd work. . . for a few hours, and then their pattern would decay, leaving them with some nasty aggravated damage. This could cover healing others quite nicely. Healing self, again, I could see bashing or lethal, but *definitely* not agg. Agg seems to inherently involve pattern destruction, and Biokinesis is pattern alteration, not creation.

Check out Psychmorphing 5 in the core book...

2) Technically, a telepath can heal insanity, even though it is on a technicality (a careful combination of Empathy 4 and Psychbending 4, with a little Pilfer thrown in). Heh; not bad when you realize that it only takes 13 dots of ability to copy a single 4-dot ability...

However, a psi couldn't heal his own insanity, even with Mentatis 5; bear in mind that the psi would need to see his insanity as a problem, and part and parcel of being insane is that you think that it is your normal state. Ergo, you wouldn't be able to heal it on the grounds that there is nothing to heal....

FR

[metaphysician]

There's no aggravated damage in Trinity.

No, but there is in Aberrant. . . and there are types of damage in Trinity that, as described, seem to fit the Aberrant definition of agg ( Catabolysis, anyone? ).

If a biokinetic can heal his body, why not his mind? The brain is just another organ of the body to a shifter. They can already affect it with several techniques. So if you allow them to heal their bodies, why not their minds as well?

Because the brain != the mind. Purely biochemical disorders, maybe. Organic brain damage, yeah ( but see below ). Psychological conditions without any strong basis in neurology? Not a chance. Also, healing organic brain damage wouldn't necessarily restore the skills and memories associated with said damaged brain.

I should also point out that if shifters can heal their own bodies, than telepaths should be able to heal their own minds (and the minds of others) but the books have said that they cannot do that either. That's the purpose of Mentatis...just like healing the body is the purpose of Iatrosis. I know it would make sense for shifters to heal their bodies (and telepaths to heal their minds), but the Doyen seperated the abilities of psions on purpose to limit their induvidual usefulness. It would also make sense for vitakinetics to learn certain telepathy and biokinesis techniques and for electrokinetics to learn to manipulate magnetic fields, but the Doyen also saw to those things.

But like I said, perhaps in Bright Continent, a special method is developed that allows psions to break down the Doyen barriers...perhaps.

Could be.

Hmm, thinking about it, each discipline can be defined in terms of noetic patterns.

Clairsentience involves perceiving patterns, psychokinesis changing matter patterns, electrokinesis changing energy patterns, biokinesis changing life patterns, telepathy reading and changing mental patterns. . .and vitakinesis involves restoring life and mental patterns. The key being that vitakinesis can actually 'add' to the pattern, restoring additional potential that has been lost, rather than merely shifting around what is there.

[Blue Thunder]

Vitakinesis focuses on 'restoring' biological templates to their original form. Thats the basis for how they heal with Iatrosis and Mentatis. And by reversing that method, they can perform Algesis.

No, but there is in Aberrant. . . and there are types of damage in Trinity that, as described, seem to fit the Aberrant definition of agg ( Catabolysis, anyone? ).

I know, and looking back, I'm sure they would have added Aggravated damage in if they had thought of it earlier. I just wanted to point it out; it seemed like you guys had forgotten.

However, a psi couldn't heal his own insanity, even with Mentatis 5; bear in mind that the psi would need to see his insanity as a problem, and part and parcel of being insane is that you think that it is your normal state. Ergo, you wouldn't be able to heal it on the grounds that there is nothing to heal....

That's a tricky issue, one I would leave up to actual roleplay. For the most part though, I will agree. If you have Disassociate Identity Disorder, I doubt having Mentatis will cure you. It might help you understand your condition better, but outside aid would be much better.

Though I would point out that Mentatis at 5 dots (or even 1 dot) would make you highly resistant to mental derangements/conditions in the first place (aside from those caused by dysfunction and other psionic-based conditions). It's said that vitakinetics have the potential to live centuries (in Terra Verde I believe?), and in one of the adventure books (the first I think?) it says how vitakinetics can smoke cigars without any fear of getting cancer or any other harmful effects, simply because of their passive abilities. That sounds like an obvious subconscious/passive use of Iatrosis...so why would Mentatis be any different? I would think someone with Mentatis would be a lot less likely to be traumatized by something than someone else. Since their bodies are passively being restored and healed as a reaction to things affecting them, so are their minds (granted they have Mentatis).

Thats all my opinion of course.

Is there a way to allow a biokinetic to temporaroly heal damage? So that the damage suffered still has to be healed either with time or with VK, but in the middle of a battle or other life-threatening situation, the BK can close his wounds long enough to get to somewhere safe?

I was actually thinking of making a technique like this, something that would "heal" Health Levels for a short while, but when the duration ran out the wounds would all reopen and the damage would return. The closest a shifter can get is the one technique (Redundancy, I think?) that lets them ignore wound penalties.

[Jackson Creed]

Okay, as I see it, it states quite clearly in Terre Verde that the line between Biokinesis and Vitakinesis is affecting others. Vitakinesis affects others, while Biokinesis affects only the psion himself. Biokinesis gives its wielder control over his own body. Now healing is a perfectly natural part of one's own biology. It makes perfect sense that Biokinetics should not only be able to heal themselves, but should be able to do so very easily. However, a caveat should be that Biokinesis (particularly Psychomorphing) be able to heal the psion at an accelerated rate, but only what damage would normally be able to be healed naturally. So almost any wounds can be closed, but regeneration of lost limbs is not possible. Missing limbs or eyes (and such-like) could be remade using Transmogrify, but they would be impermanent unless Vitakinetic aid was enlisted.

JC

[jsnead]

Okay, as I see it, it states quite clearly in Terre Verde that the line between Biokinesis and Vitakinesis is affecting others. Vitakinesis affects others, while Biokinesis affects only the psion himself. Biokinesis gives its wielder control over his own body. Now healing is a perfectly natural part of one's own biology. It makes perfect sense that Biokinetics should not only be able to heal themselves, but should be able to do so very easily. However, a caveat should be that Biokinesis (particularly Psychomorphing) be able to heal the psion at an accelerated rate, but only what damage would normally be able to be healed naturally. So almost any wounds can be closed, but regeneration of lost limbs is not possible. Missing limbs or eyes (and such-like) could be remade using Transmogrify, but they would be impermanent unless Vitakinetic aid was enlisted.

That makes perfect sense to me. Also, I can see this healing as not being quite as fast as Vitakinetic healing, since it is accelerating their body's natural healing, and not (as Vitakinetics seem able to do) instantly restoring someone's noetic template.

My idea is to borrow the 4 dot Enhancement technique from India Underground:

Psychmorphing•••

Self-Healing

The Psion can also heal herself, but not as effectively as a Vitakinetic. With this ability, the Psion is able to accelerate the rate at which he heals, healing wounds that would usually talk months to a year in days or even hours.

System: Spend 2 Psi and roll Psi, for each success treat the healing time (Trinity p. 253) for the Psion’s greatest wound level taken as one less than it is (to a minimum of bruised), and then decrease all subsequent wound levels as though the previous wound was the level of it’s new healing time. If 4 or more successes are scored one health level is healed instantly in addition to the accelerated healing effects

------------

I'd convert this to nWoD both by (as with all other Modes) reducing the Psi cost by 1 and by stating that each success halved the time needed for healing all forms of damage.

[Blue Thunder]

That sounds much more logical.

Edit - I have to disagree with the previous statement about biokinetics being able to heal themselves, and doing it easily. I'll just quote Terra Verde, because the book says it all:

This is a question that leads Norça researchers to

ask hard questions — why does the line exist? What

keeps biokinetics from healing injuries, and what keeps

the vitakinetics from changing shape? Each has some

degree of control over the living body, but it’s a different

kind of control. These questions extend from that point

outward — why can a vitakinetic heal the mind, but not

a telepath? Why can a telepath view the world through

another’s eyes, but not a clairvoyant? Some are increasingly

convinced that the distinctions between the aptitudes

are artificial, and they mark an increasing number

of blurred boundaries between the various aptitudes and

wonder why they exist at all.

[Alistaire]

We've been playing it according to canon as well, that bio-k's can't 'heal' damage. Our compromise to this issue however has been that they can shape their bodies in (I guess you could call it "unnatural") ways to help minimize the impact of them. For instance, if one sustains a big gash on the arm, they can "grow" more skin to cover the wound, in order to stop the bleeding. A VK is still needed to heal the damage properly ("restore" the arm to it's original condition, which is what VK does), or else natural healing, which the BK still needs to be careful not to let the newly grown tissue get in the way of the healing. Similarly a broken bone could have new bone-material grown around it to make a sort of brace, but the break will still be there. This then still counts as a "change" when such changes are limited in number and/or require psi to keep.

So yeah, we haven't had a problem with this, except in-game where characters start to wonder the things BT quoted above, but that's just good story-making.

Biokinesis gives its wielder control over his own body. Now healing is a perfectly natural part of one's own biology. It makes perfect sense that Biokinetics should not only be able to heal themselves, but should be able to do so very easily. However, a caveat should be that Biokinesis (particularly Psychomorphing) be able to heal the psion at an accelerated rate, but only what damage would normally be able to be healed naturally.

This makes sense, but like BT said, the doyans wrote the rules, so this should only serve to make noeticists wonder as to why those boundaries are there. I know that this will certainly come up in our game eventually.

Okay, as I see it, it states quite clearly in Terre Verde that the line between Biokinesis and Vitakinesis is affecting others. Vitakinesis affects others, while Biokinesis affects only the psion himself.

Except of course, that there are two or three BK powers that do affect others. ::sly

[metaphysician]

Not to mention Vitakinesis is perfectly usable on oneself, too.

[Blue Thunder]

I'm not sure if it helps, but shifters can add to their soak through their powers. That's something that docs can't do, and can help make up for not being able to heal actual Health Levels.