Adventure! RPG - Maxed Menagerie

[BlueNinja]

This is mostly brought up because SkyLion's prospective PC for my Adventure! game has a five point Menagerie background and wants to have an Inspired animal as a companion/sidekick. Yet nothing I'm seeing in the book says how to create or handle Inspired creatures. The 'Mooks and Monsters' section includes some creatures that are present because of Z-rays, but not any who can use them. And since the PC in question doesn't have a dinosaur, I can't exactly go off of that. ::biggrin

How powerful should I make it? I'm considering giving him 5 Inspiration to work with (so that the creature doesn't overshadow the PCs) but I'm curious if other people view that as too powerful or not powerful enough.

[ezekiel]

This is mostly brought up because SkyLion's prospective PC for my Adventure! game has a five point Menagerie background and wants to have an Inspired animal as a companion/sidekick. Yet nothing I'm seeing in the book says how to create or handle Inspired creatures. The 'Mooks and Monsters' section includes some creatures that are present because of Z-rays, but not any who can use them. And since the PC in question doesn't have a dinosaur, I can't exactly go off of that. ::biggrin

How powerful should I make it? I'm considering giving him 5 Inspiration to work with (so that the creature doesn't overshadow the PCs) but I'm curious if other people view that as too powerful or not powerful enough.

I'd use the gadget rules and adapt them...Maybe add biotech advancement options (up to 15) OR duplicate one level three knack, two level two or three level 1.

[Blue Thunder]

Then why not give him a creature created from Inspiration instead of giving him a daredevil/ mesmerist/ stalwart creature? The book gives you talking apes, vampires, dinosaurs, mole people, cave people, and others. So how about an animal with a fantasy-like twist? A unicorn. A griffon. A pegasus. A talking dog or cat. A dragon. A living gargoyle statue. A monstrous living plant of some kind. An animal that can transform into human form and interact as a human.

Or go with the gadget idea suggested above? A flying carpet perhaps? Hmm, I wonder how a flying carpet would work with the rules...I guess it would be a Gadget if it just flew at your mental command, but part of a Menagerie if it had rudimentary intelligence.

[SkyLion]

BN and I are working this out privately but thought Id post up what I did. So everyone knows, I built his demon-tiger the same as a starting PC (sans BN's freebie xp). My resoning behind this is as follows:

A 5 point menagerie allows for something unique and Inspired and the example it gives is King Kong....heh.

Buying a 2 dot ally gives you an inspired friend with 7 transformation points. It is clear that having more dots gives more allies or less more powerful ones. So if you had a single 4 dot ally they'ld be about as powerful as a beginning character. 5 dots could be even more powerful. Because of this, Im thinking about just making the cat an ally instead of menagerie, since he has a human level intelligence (though still the personality of a demon-tiger ::biggrin ). The cat himself bought my PC as a 1 dot mentor, since that description says your mentor is someone at your level.

[ezekiel]

BN and I are working this out privately but thought Id post up what I did. So everyone knows, I built his demon-tiger the same as a starting PC (sans BN's freebie xp). My resoning behind this is as follows:

A 5 point menagerie allows for something unique and Inspired and the example it gives is King Kong....heh.

Buying a 2 dot ally gives you an inspired friend with 7 transformation points. It is clear that having more dots gives more allies or less more powerful ones. So if you had a single 4 dot ally they'ld be about as powerful as a beginning character. 5 dots could be even more powerful. Because of this, Im thinking about just making the cat an ally instead of menagerie, since he has a human level intelligence (though still the personality of a demon-tiger ::biggrin ). The cat himself bought my PC as a 1 dot mentor, since that description says your mentor is someone at your level.

I'd compare it to Followers more than Ally. An ally may or may not help you, its just a friend (ask your friends for serious money or other aid, you'll see its not always that simple). Menagerie and followers are more unconditional and therefore less powerful. You'll notice that at four dots of menagerie they give a Gorilla companion as an example, not an inspired gorilla or gorilla with magical powers...just a highly trained gorilla. It would seem quite a leap to me from 4 to 5 dots meaning that you can create an animal companion with human intelligence + powers + whatever.

That said, they give King Kong as an example...still, King Kong is a HUGE animal with all the perks and many disadvantages that brings, and he doesn't have human intelligence. Like I mentioned before, I would use the gadget rules. You could have a bigger, stronger tiger, not necessarily another character in which case you'd buy an Ally and he wouldn't be there at your beck and call.

[SkyLion]

BN and I have actually ironed out the kinks. Read the beginning of the allies description again...these arent just friends or buddies...these are the people who have your back no matter what Unlike followers they are way more skilled and its a reciprocal relationship.

And just to clarify. I agree with you about normal menageries. Like the Beastmaster movies is more what you are thinking. What I had in mind is a much more ally-like equitable relationship. This is an incredibly unique Inspired tiger who has his own story and personality.

Also, one could argue that instead of a giant King Kong you could instead have a gorilla who was only half Kong's size but the tradeoff could be a human or human-like intelligence and/or some other kind of Inspiration.

[ezekiel]

BN and I have actually ironed out the kinks. Read the beginning of the allies description again...these arent just friends or buddies...these are the people who have your back no matter what Unlike followers they are way more skilled and its a reciprocal relationship.

And just to clarify. I agree with you about normal menageries. Like the Beastmaster movies is more what you are thinking. What I had in mind is a much more ally-like equitable relationship. This is an incredibly unique Inspired tiger who has his own story and personality.

Also, one could argue that instead of a giant King Kong you could instead have a gorilla who was only half Kong's size but the tradeoff could be a human or human-like intelligence and/or some other kind of Inspiration.

I have read the allies description. Allies DONT have your back no matter what. They're very good friends, they even mention the possibility of betrayal by an ally, therefore, unlike followers as you've mentioned and so have I in my last post, its reciprocal whereas followers and menagerie are more unconditional (and consequentially less powerful)

If its an equitable relationship why not just take Ally and be done with it? You can't have your cake and eat it at the same time, there's got to be some kind of payoff. If you want the tiger to always be there for you then you'll probably want a slightly less powerful but still cool tiger. If you want a sentient being with powers 'n stuff that happens to be your best buddy, that's an ally. Still helps you most of the time but he might have his own stuff going on and you had better not treat him like dirt.

[SkyLion]

"This background represents the people who are closest to your character-not just pool hall pals to help him spend a paycheck, but bosom companions your character would go to for advice if he found out he had cancer. Thick or thin, wrong or right, an ally is there for your character"

Sounds about right to me. Asuratizaya is his closest companion, his ally in the fight against the heinous and immoral Ubiquitous Dragon...He would never treat his friend poorly, quite the contrary he would die for him...

Besides BN and I have come to an accord. And anyway, ally or menagerie or followers its the same thing...5 dots is 5 dots. Having only one makes whatever it is that much more useful...

[ezekiel]

Alright, we'll agree to disagree. Were you a long time EON reader I'd point out that Pathfinder in QZ was an Ally of my character Terry. She was very powerful and they were very close but by no means was she there ALL the time for him nor could Terry tell her what to do or how to do something. If the backgrounds were the same there'd only be one background. For what you're aiming for I'd say it was an ally which implies less control.

[phoenix]

::blink At the risk of flogging this dead horse, just how powerful does it have to be? I mean, if four dots of menagerie buys you a tiger, and five dots buys something equivalent to King Kong.. But I'll stay out of the rules discussion since I don't have the book yet.

As far as classification goes, I would suggest going back to Follower - that was how Prof and I handled Geronimo the raven (QZ Elites). If a two-dot Ally has seven transformation points, the five you want hardly seems like a big deal for a five-dot background, even if it's Follower instead of Ally. I guess you know what you want, but just keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with having a Follower that your character thinks of as more of an "ally" than a "follower" (especially out loud).

[ezekiel]

It's not so much about power as it is about control. There was no question that your character (Mojo?) was superior to Geronimo. In A! I could very well make a "demon-tiger" or "gorilla scientist" character. If the relationship is to be one among equals then its an Ally that you're looking at. The difference is that Menagerie you tell your pet to eat someone and he does so; Ally he might do so. He could very well tell you to do it yourself or just that he won't (like Pathfinder has done on more than one occasion) or he could do it to help you or he could do it despite your objections cause its in his nature and he feels like it. Ultimately they work together and they wouldn't harm each other, but they're still individual with individual outlooks and means to attain those goals.

Really, if this wasn't the case, why is there a follower, an ally and a menagerie background? Why not just have a single "companion" background and be done with it?

[SkyLion]

Well..followers gives you alot more but they arent supposed to be powered, just (possibly) skilled. An accountent or agent would fall into this category. Allies is meant to simulate powered best friends ("closest bosom buddies.) Sounds like your Ally in the QZ game (I havent been a long time reader) was more bordering on a very useful contact than a true ally. Menagerie is meant to represent beasties (like the beastmaster movies "Come Simba!") or a zoo, or King Kong. Typically true to form as a roleplayer and a gamer I want something that blurs the line between two established categories. This is fine. The rules aren't a straightjacket. If I wanted (and the ST approved, naturally) I could invent my own 5 dot background and call it something else...

*sigh* Some of these discussions seem to get only "but you can't do this or that..." instead of realizing that the golden rule is have fun and create, something which doesn't always fit into a mold (though should be in the spirit of the game and not just an excuse for power-mongering over other players.)

As BN and I have discussed it, I haven't done anything crazy unreasonable. I might add that my tigers vice is follower, so that takes care of loyalty issues (aside from sharing the same Nemisis, enemies and just plain liking each other as kindred spirits with indomitable wills.)

BN will play Asura, though within the agreed upon personality that I, as the creating player have decided upon. He will mostly defer to my character (his mentor) but may act feisty from time to time. Being an ally is also better in these circumstances since he can more independantly act to save my hide if something unpleasent happens...

[BlueNinja]

BN will play Asura, though within the agreed upon personality that I, as the creating player have decided upon. He will mostly defer to my character (his mentor) but may act feisty from time to time.

Like yawning and ignoring you if you did something stupid to get yourself into this mess, or eating your steak, or very clearly miming to everyone in the room that the female over there is attractive and you should make cubs with her. ::tongue

[SkyLion]

exactly! ::laugh

[ezekiel]

Okay, but basically you're telling me that if I want to exceed the one level three knack for a level 5 gadget, I just have to give it sentience and call it an ally/menagerie.

Gadget 5:

Mini-zeppelin, reinforced, more maneuverable, faster and armed. (15 augmentations or ONE level 3 knack)

Menagerie/follower 5:

Mystical floating Poombah, hollow for transport, sentient demon being whose sole purpose in life is the transportation of demonic troops. Create with 13 transformation points, follows PC to a T 'cause they're "bosom buddies" (up to FOUR level 3 knacks, double that of an artifact)

Anyway, you're right that's it all up to the ST. I still think its dangerous to play with the rules and create imbalances when the rules could adequately do what you want them to.

[SkyLion]

Okay, but basically you're telling me that if I want to exceed the one level three knack for a level 5 gadget, I just have to give it sentience and call it an ally/menagerie.

No. that would be different. gadgets have their own rules already defined. I was merely pointing out that one *can* extrapolate new or different ideas in order to fill in the gaps of the published materials...

Anyway, you're right that's it all up to the ST. I still think its dangerous to play with the rules and create imbalances when the rules could adequately do what you want them to.

I agree. What I came up with isn't so out of hand. Quite reasonable actually. Asura was based mostly off of what an bear would be like (stat-wise) who was also unique and inspired.

Also note that if you bought something as followers or menagerie they do follow your orders without question (usually.) Bosom buddies is reserved for the more intimate allies background.

[BlueNinja]

Mystical floating Poombah, hollow for transport, sentient demon being whose sole purpose in life is the transportation of demonic troops. Create with 13 transformation points, follows PC to a T 'cause they're "bosom buddies" (up to FOUR level 3 knacks, double that of an artifact)

Seriously, do think King Kong doesn't have more than that 3 point knack? The ape has obviously have a strength far beyond human capabilities, added onto mastery in (at least) Brawl and Athletics. He's notoriously hard to control, and has a tendancy of bitch-smacking T-rex's and airplanes and pulling pieces off of buildings. Azura is less powerful, but a little smarter, and will use opportunities to make Li-Shen's life difficult.

Plus there's the fact that the lovely menagerie creature, like a gadget, doesn't gain the XP that the PC does. It's a little overpowered out of the box, but is less so later on in the game.

[SkyLion]

Azura is less powerful, but a little smarter, and will use opportunities to make Li-Shen's life difficult.

Shen-Li

Li-Shen

Li-long Shen

Shen-Long

so many ways to say the same thing, i have trouble choosing. *sigh* The art and science of naming characters...

And anyway, not to difficult I hope... ::glare