Let Me Clear The Air

[Warren Verona]

Alright, as it said: Let me clear the air.

Apparently when Revenant went off on PW and Waki some people took some personal offense to it. Why people would take personal offense to an in character post is beyond me, but since I am not them I will respect their right to be offended by what I said.

To clear it up, yes it was harsh, even for Revenant, but let me clue you in to why. This forum has an ass load of people who play mega smart characters; Revenant is not mega smart. He cannot keep up with you people sometimes and I try and reflect that in his posts (they sometimes start out sounding okay then degenerate into swearing and what not). Imagine, just for a second (and don't tell me you can't, you play RPGs people) that you were trying to prove a point in a room people a million times your better intellectually, and every time you debated a point that was simple, and easy to understand some ass wipe went and flipped the script on you and placed the answer into words and phrases that flew way over your head when a simple 'yes' or 'no' would have sufficed.

That particular thread, Reven frankly ran out of things to say, with each and every post all it was a 'no matter what you say, I'm right' game. Reven is a simple man, and when he runs out of ways to explain things he shouts at the screen, slams his head against the desk, and writes the most vulgar thing he can think of because that's how he deals with being stupid (the guy has a third grade math level people, if it wasn't for calculators that little secret would have been out months ago).

Oh, and Revenant is not the "I'll martyr myself to Revenant's wrath so my Girlfriend will pity fuck me." character. I was rather disappointed that I wasted my time setting up a plotline and developing what possible lessons and outcomes Revenant could take away from it. If it wasn't for the tremendous amount of respect Revenant had for Flicker, then Neil would be dead and I'd be retiring Revenant to Nova Jail (or playing my 'nobody knows it was me' card, cuz those fool even Postcogs with the 'Moving Vision' extra.)

So, if you were offended, I apologize, that certainly was not my intent. IC posts are just that, IC. Please never assume that the words and opinions of Revenant ever mirror my own. There are some words Reven hasn't used, and it's simply because I personally would never use them. Obviously there are very few... heh, but there are.

Hugs, kisses, and a pat on the ass,

~Dave

P.S. Revenant is one of 'The People'. He's full blooded 'Smackahoe'.

[Neil Preston]

Are we, or are we not, doing this fiction?

Last thing I heard from you was you were going to write something up and PM it to me. That's what I thought I read anyway.

[Wakinyan]

My curiousity was the elevated level of Revenant's response seemed off from the norm. This answers it though so all is well.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Neil Preston

Are we, or are we not, doing this fiction?
Last thing I heard from you was you were going to write something up and PM it to me. That's what I thought I read anyway.

Hell if I know dude. I have the first post started but you keep saying 'he going to wait and talk to Flicker' (which Revenant has read as, "this was all to get attention from Flicker"). Seriously, at this point Revenant doesn't care anymore. He hardly remembers what he did five minutes ago, let alone who he pissed off five, six days ago.

The post is ready and I'll PM it later if you would like to read it.

[Neil Preston]

Please do. Flicker has a hellish work schedule this week, so I'm not certain if I'll be able to get any of her time until Sunday, if then. I would like to go forward with the fiction.

What I am assuming is that Flicker puts the brakes on Neil's anger, not that she stops him from doing something he feels needs to be done. He is going to confront Revenant and demand an apology. I would like to see were it goes from there. I thihk both Rev and Neil have thinks they can learn from this and I'd like to see what we can accomplish together.

[AquaMarine]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

Apparently when Revenant went off on PW and Waki some people took some personal offense to it.

If it matters at all, I didn't take offense. It actually made me think of some questions to ask of Ptesan Wi and Wakinyan. The characters are obviously mired in some very thorny and complex issues that Aqua is trying fathom.

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

You're right, until Sunday I'm essentially booked solid. Sunday is my day for chores. Then I dive right back into work.

Ugh.

I can do some short pieces on Sunday, but that's about it. I could be involved in the very beginning of the story, in which Neil is about to set out from home on his fool's errand to Chicago, for example. It'd be a good chance for some Neil & Flicker screen time, and a good chance to show how their relationship has changed since she started med school.

[Neil Preston]

I'm all for that! Nova and Neil time, exhibiting changes and growth.

[Ptesan-Wi]

OK, fine. Let's clear the air.

I'm done with the OpNet2017. For PW, for TS, for SC, for all of my various two-letter acronyms.

Why? Because I'm sick and tired of every thread turning into a dog-pile. I'm sick and tired of the way that characters that apparently have massive dots in Empathic Manipulation with the OpNet Troll extra have made it their mission to find - or create, if need be - fault in others and then hammer it into the ground in a display that harkens back to the worst memories of high school. And to be completely honest, I'm sick to fucking death of players who think that this is a dandy way to play.

I came to N!Prime to have some fun with Aberrant roleplaying. For the first year and change, that's what I got. But for months now, the place has turned into a clique-ridden attack-fest... and apparently, once you've been pegged as an easy target - as my characters have - you're options are to (1) accept that you're a permanent subject of derision, (2) leave, (3) die, or (4) join in the bashing of the next easy target so that you can join the clique.

My characters are taking option #2... and so, frankly, am I. I escaped high school once, and have no desire to live in it again.

[Velvet]

That's your prerogative. It's unfortunate, as it won't change anything, but it's your choice. I admit, however, that I don't have the will or the patience to say, "No! Don't do that, please!" because, even with PW, it's difficult to tell what's IC and what's OOC in some of the aforementioned threads. I won't apologize for my opinions, or for those of my character, but I am sorry if you took anything I've said to heart.

I haven't just been taking "extended vacations" from RPG-Post because I'm busy, but because of the illogical, the egocentric, and the "poor-me" behaviors that (in my opinion) seem very common these days. I was a lot more willing, when I first arrived here, to just get along and go along, but I can't make myself do that anymore. If something bothers me, I'm going to come out with it, and it's unfortunately not always going to be in a tactful way. I'm sure people have already been offended, and our resident "Intelligence Expert" is already theorizing that there are extant OOC issues, but I'm honestly not trying to be cruel. I just don't have the patience for many of the subjects and thought processes I once did.

I like and respect everyone here, with two obvious exceptions, so if something I say really torques you off, feel free to let me know directly. I do it, and I'm not going to cry foul when someone else responds in kind.

[Ptesan-Wi]

You know what, Velvet? You're right, at least in part.

I'm just now finishing up three of the worst weeks of my life. And unfortunately, this business with PW happened to coincide perfectly with everything else going wrong. I lost my grip, and lashed out here.

That said, I do think that there is a problem on OpNet2017, beyond my own frustration. It's all well and good to say, "this is IC, and is true to my character." But there's a line that can get crossed somewhere along the way, a line where that statement becomes a means of being a jerk with a ready-built excuse. Without naming names, there are some folks here who have, from my admittedly subjective point of view, stepped over that line.

A quick point: PW has issues, no argument there. She thinks she's following a path of Teras when she's incapable of doing so, she believes that she is really the White Buffalo Calf Woman returned, and she doesn't know the truth of what she really is. And yes, she's bought into the traditional Lakota heritage bit with all the ferverence that only a convert to a cause can have. But she is not a white-hating racist.

Now maybe I am just incapable of making that last point clear via IC posts. I'm lousy with people and communication, and I can accept that that is valid possibility. Or maybe certain characters who get their jollies by twisting what folks say until they can rebuild said folks into characatures have done exactly that with PW. Frankly, I think that there's a least a major dose of the latter going on here. But either way, it has rapidly devolved to the point where there is exactly nothing she can say that won't be shoved back in her face or blithely dismissed as the "attention-whoring of a narcissistic racist bitch". It's reached the point where the character has been brutally and thoroughly trashed, and there's no apparent avenue of redemption available. And I honestly believe that that's exactly the way that certain characters - and certain players - want it.

Now, if you want to read this as "poor-me" behavior, feel free. But I can't just paste a smile on and say, "golly gee, isn't everything here great".

[Courier]

Quote:

I'm just now finishing up three of the worst weeks of my life...

Ow. Sorry about that.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Courier

Quote:

I'm just now finishing up three of the worst weeks of my life...

Ow. Sorry about that.

And I'll back her on this, as I've been eyewitness to most of nastiness of the three weeks.

I'd also like to add something to what she said. I was asked by Hugin a while back why I didn't post in the OpNet often. And my answer was, "Every time I say something out there, I get jumped for it. So I have no fun there. I have lots of fun in fictions." Today, I have characters that won't post in the OpNet because they feel attacked everytime they post, and after a while, they give up IC.

I know that saying this won't change anything. Those of you who have characters that enjoy shredding others will just point out that you have every right IC to ICly shred my characters. Fine. Have fun posting with, shredding each other, or patting one another on the back about how sharp your tongue is.

Like it or not, saying "It's all IC," isn't entirely true. Yes, those are supposed to be our character's thoughts, but they came from our brain, and they are ours on some, deep level. It's the reason that Dreamer gets so defensive about his ideas; they're his, and when every idea you have gets knocked down (no matter how wrong the idea is), you get upset. It does have an effect on people over time.

N!Prime used to be somewhere completely fun. It's still fun, but I wouldn't say completely so. I understand why PW wants to pull away. I don't, because I've learned to let it roll off my back. But I've done so because I've had the support of some wonderful people whose response to my detracters were, "Meh, fuck 'em. Who cares?" PW has not had that same support. And, at the risk of implying weakness on her part, I want to add, she is not prepared socially to deal with rejection. This is a flaw on her part, but it is one she shares with a ton of people on this planet. It is one she used to share with me, until the lot of you turned me into an iron-sided bitch (yes, this is all your faults ).

My point? It's simple. Some of you are tough sons of bitches. Some of you chew nails for dinner. All I ask is that you remember that not everyone else does, and judging them by your standards will not work. Take that how you will, and happy gaming to you all.

[Neil Preston]

Though no one has brought it up, PW doesn't seem to have any problem having Neil Preston being her husband's Blood Brother, nor did she have a problem midwifing Neil's child into this world. Something to consider about an anti-white racist. Just a sidenote.

[AquaMarine]

Aquamarine asked questions with me thinking it would be a great way for the characters involved to expound on what is obviously a complex situation. I could be wrong but aren't Ptesan Wi, Wakinyan and Esther Bluecorn the only characters that have their very own ethnic group where they are leaders?

I don't know what you're playing with Ptesan Wi or what really gets you off but I can tell you what Aquamarine is going to key off of. The role as co-leader of a sovereign people. What Ptesan Wi says is going to be looked at by Aqua not that differently from Tony Blair or George Bush making comments in an off camera moment.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Ptesan-Wi and Wakinyan are not the leaders of the Lakota tribe. They are spiritual symbols for the tribe, yes, and have a lot of sway because of such. However, they generally do not meddle with the tribal council and attendant politics.

[AquaMarine]

I would comment only that the Queen of England has little temporal or secular power in the British Islands. And yet she is the Queen Mother. Now assume for a moment she were a nova...

[Velvet]

I don't think "redemption" is necessary. From my own perspective, though, it would be much more satisfying if (and I understand why you might not be in the mood or mindset to do this) there were more fictions, even brief ones, that did address some of the issues PW seems to have. From reading only her OpNet posts, a lot of the accusations being leveled at her are hard to refute.

Admittedly, these posts may already exist, and I've just missed them, but here are a few of the things I wonder about.

-Why does PW so slavishly defend Wakinyan, knowing everything he's done wrong?

-Having been born white, what prompts her to behave as if she's always been Lakota?

-At what point do the deceptions she perpetuates on a daily basis(pretending more or less to be Lakota, lying about being a nova, trying to join the Teragen, etc.) begin to prevent her from being completely honest with herself, or do they?

Reading PW's OpNet responses on various subjects always makes me think, as a reader, "Gah! What is she hiding from? What's going to happen when these illusions she has about her life are shattered?" My most persistent impression of her is that she's a good person, but completely delusional about a lot of things- either because she truly believes them, or because she really wants to believe them. It makes for an undoubtedly interesting and complex character, but at least for me, a frustrating read because I want badly (as a reader, mind) to see her recognize the things that are holding her back and rise above them.

[Ptesan-Wi]

There's actually quite a lot of fictions for PW, many of them linked in the profile in the signature-line.

It's a lot to slog through, but it does show that she glomped onto the Lakota culture first as a means of hiding her true background and out of love for her husband, then out of concern and care for "her" people, and finally in a psychotic break that has her thinking that she really is the mythical Ptesan-Wi. Like I said, there's nothing more ferverent than a convert (to pretty much anything), and you don't get much more converted than Ptesan-Wi has experienced.

For some of the same reasons, lying about being a nova has become second-nature to her, but her devotion to Teras is - while horribly misguided - genuine; she really thinks that it holds a path for her, and (falsely) believes that it guided her to reaching her recent breakthrough (Psi 6).

The Wakinyan thing is the hardest to explain, and I'm not sure I could address it correctly no matter how much I wrote on the topic. Simply put, something in her - who knows what - fell in love with him at first mental "sight", and she is the sort who loves unconditionally. It results in a massive blind-spot where he is concerned.

[Trooper]

Okay, since we're clearing the air.

Trooper- The character is an elite. An unapologetic murderer. He may cloak it in a sense of esprit de corps and professionalism but at the end of the day he kills people for money and doesn't lose sleep over it. In addition to that he (and I'd like to not he is the ONLY one of my characters to hold this opinion) is a bit of a reactionary-racist when it comes to Native Americans. Maybe an early case of white-guilt that festered.

Lemmy Chillmeister-Is also a bit of a racist. A pro-nova racist. He won't sleep with baselines anymore, doesn't make music for baselines and is convinced that having that chunk of grey matter in his noggin makes him special.

Slattern- Also a racist. She's a Terat who holds more anti-sex morals in complete contempt and in the past hasn't had a problem with manipulating people's behavior in order to "help them" ( in her point of view ). She dismisses baseline society as meaningless to her or her child and as a result is less than accepting of other folks pov.

Hugin- Not a racist. But an amoral, manipulative, slightly paranoid asshole who has more murders to his credit than a grundle of serial killers.

At the end of the day I'm interested in running characters with flaws. I don't like Paragons, I find them boring. I'm going to run people who have issues, who will get into arguments and who aren't necessarily right. I don't agree with most of what I wrote as Trooper. But when I write as him I'm going to write as if I was 100% correct because that's what he believes he is.

Sorry if that causes problems with folks.

[Warren Verona]

I have this crazy little thing I do...

I look at character sheets (when they're avail).

PW has the Megalomania flaw, I know that, Revenant doesn't. So, when PW is sitting on her high horse and using her mega smarts to justify everything she and Waki do his small mind cannot keep up.

He gets mad, he yells at the screen, and he breaks stuff. Then he scoops up all his Hot Wheels, screams 'fuck this game!' and runs off to his bedroom to suck his thumb and sulk.

I personally go turn on my playstation and wait from someone to reply to something. Cuz IRL this is text on screen, and I couldn't give a squirt of piss what someone posts IC.

Now, ya dig into me OOC and we have a problem. That's when I get mad, yell, break stuff, and scoop up all my Hot Wheels while screaming 'fuck this game!'. Go into my bedroom, rub one out (maybe two) and sulk.

So, ya see. It's all good.

[The White Rat]

Quote:

I'm going to run people who have issues, who will get into arguments and who aren't necessarily right.

Well said! Being psychotic is much more enjoyable.

Since everyone else is 'clearing the air' about their characters, I guess is time for me to do the same. Not that there is anything to really say about Rat, that he has not already demonstrated by his actions.

Rat is sick....brilliant but sick. In many ways he is a tragic figure. His mental illness happened because of a tragic event. His many years of living on the streets while mentally ill, have made him resentful of those who are healthy and normal.

His eruption made mattters worse. His antipathy towards anything deemed normal, created what is now a diseased monster. Both mentally and physically. He does what he does to make himself feel better. It is his hope that through Teras, he can cleanse himself of what he sees as 'a baseline weakness'...that weakness being the mental illness that defined much of his baseline past.

Granted, his more extreme mental issues, Delusions and Sociopathy, are a direct result of taint. But they are still extensions of his baselne, diseased psyche.

Feel free to lay into Rat as a character. Feedback is always welcome.

[Seph OOC]

Alright, I guess I'll throw myself on the pyre, too. No sense in pretending I'm not at least the ass or trunk of the elephant in the room, huh?

For starters, let me say that Machina has the 'Mega-Bastard' aberration from 'Brainwaves'. He's a dick to everyone, even people he likes. Every compliment is veiled by sarcasm or accompanied by some backhanded barb. And people he doesn't like? Well, you've all seen that plenty, and not just in the last week. He has to spend Willpower just to not be a dick. And, hey, his Willpower pool is impressive, but with a cap of ten, there's only so many punches he can pull.

I don't want to get into a bio on the character as a moment, partially because the character's actual motivations and personal life are something that's known to only a few people here, and I'd like to keep it that way so that when and if it ever becomes public knowledge, the surprise (and I'm not being disingenuous when I say I think some of you will definitely be surprised) will be more genuine. However, a few things are pretty apparent: Machina is a mega-genius, a bitter drunkard (which probably should have been implied by saying that he was a mega-genius, but, you know, just to be sure), and a former Army Ranger, mercenary, and Directive Operative. He does not like most novas, he abhors people with a sense of entitlement, and he can't stomach bad arguments. As a virtual hermit living in a bunker where he chain smokes and invents things, one of his only releases or form of intellectual stimulus is to tear people down. That probably sounds petty, and at least in some part it very much is, but Machina's primary goal isn't to make fun of people; it's to shock them out of complacency. He is the nova equivalent of the zen keisaku, a kick to the head meant to jar the senses. In this, he isn't polite and he finds it morally unacceptable to back down. Part of that is taint, part of that is the fact that he was a big jerk even before his eruption, and part of that is his being utterly and unequivocally convinced of his rightness. He's kind of like the nova version of Gregory House before there was a Gregory House.

As a character, he doesn't know a lot about many characters. He's an introvert and tends to run with a limited number of people who can stomach his company. As a player, his opinions don't necessarily reflect my own, and despite my well-earned reputation for being a bit of a regeaholic, myself, his anger is not a reflection of my own. I keep IC and OOC very discrete. As such, if anyone feels particularly aggrieved by anything Machina says IC, my advice is to man up and either hit back or simply ignore him. Stop giving him nails and he'll stop crucifying you. If this is a serious concern for someone OOC, then perhaps you should let me know as a player and open up a communication with me about it. Because baiting my character without telling me it's an OOC problem is only going to make my character keep fucking with you, like a rambunctious Mastiff that doesn't realize you're not playing, too.

[Matt]

Originally Posted By: Dawn

N!Prime used to be somewhere completely fun. It's still fun, but I wouldn't say completely so.

I have an open question to anyone playing in the 2017 timeline. What can we do to make this more enjoyable?

[Catalyst]

Here is what I see. You have at least three game in 2017. They sometimes mix.

The big and easy ones to point out are Chicago and every where else.

Waki, and Wi have another small one. There was one forming in Rio.

The point being is that the world is way to fractured to hold onto any one form. You could split it, but I don;t know how you would it.

Or ti could come with this. There is no more canon for 30 odd years, and the players have long since hit the point of zero sum games.So you have to make really novel characters or really powerful ones...

[Velvet]

I don't think the world being "fractured" is a problem. It's not reasonable to expect that all of the novas who visit these forums would live/work/rampage in one geographic location, and I don't believe all of the stories or interactions should overlap. If, for example, everyone had to live in New York, no character could act at all without tromping all over someone else.

That being said, here are a couple of suggestions off the top of my head- feel free to critique them as you see fit.

* Accountability. If someone commits a crime in a fiction which would reasonably be discovered by an investigator, and in which other PCs are participating, he/she should not be able to negate the consequences by stating that he/she will not under any circumstances be caught. For example: When Revenant and Wakinyan destroyed part of Gary, Indiana, they were both forced to accept the consequences and have had to roleplay accordingly. This should apply to all such actions, and not be limited specifically to criminal activity.

* Invitation. Players who haven't been invited to participate in fictions that are also not specifically listed as being "open" should not invite themselves. This is rude, and makes for uncomfortable and unhappy players.

* Communication. Players involved in fictions should, out of courtesy, communicate to each other the overarching goal of said fiction. Describe whether a power is to be gained, a religious epiphany reached, etc. I'm aware quite a few people enjoy unplanned stories, but even a brief exchange citing what you'd like your character to gain from the interaction would smooth the way.

* Realism. I'm aware that it's not completely realistic for people to fly, hurl bolts of lightning from their hands, or turn into sentient, radioactive goo. By "realism" I mean, "adherence to the generally accepted laws of the universe and failure to deviate in any meaningful way from what could properly be called 'common sense.'" Some people here seem to have serious difficulty with these concepts. Even in the Aberrant world, some things are logically impossible for certain (or all) characters, and the generally laissez-faire moderating style should not be abused by these players.

Again, these are all off the top of my head, and I'm considering them more from the "Player Courtesy" standpoint than strict rule creation.

[Matt]

From a general standpoint on how I run the site, the thing that is most important to me is improving the sense of community. This place is for all of us and I want to do anything in my power so that everyone here feels like it is a place they can go and feel comfortable while playing the game. And at the same time I want to try to increase interaction between people and to help build more friendships in the process.

From a functionality standpoint, 1 thing I have been thinking about is creating subforums based around location or organization. There would still be the main forum for all catch all threads, but sub forums could help create more options for structure within the confines of each forum. This could give players options to have places they want to go to discuss things where they wouldn't have to deal with as much confrontation, or to allow players the ability to more specifically enhance their corner of the world, or even locations where players could actually be killed (that one is for waki).

I'm willing to help establish better guidelines for fictions so that people involved within any storyline can feel safe writing their collaborative story. Is there a big problem with uninvited players in fictions?

Communication, or lack there of, is often the major problem with any personal conflicts. Could the solution to improving the fictions be as simple as posting a thread in the discussion forum before the first thread of the fiction is created? And in the discussion forum any rules or goals would clearly be established and then a link could be included at the top of the fiction for any interested participants. That way people will know that if the link doesn't exist that it is open for anyone. Is that doable?

I'll let you all discuss the accountability & realism before I comment on them.

[Hugin]

I like Velvet's ideas.

I don't think subforums are really necessary. If anything it would encourage seperatism. Folks not bothering to read such and such forum because they're "not involved". Just my POV.

[Wargear]

My observations and commentary on Velvet's suggestions, along with a few of my own:

1) Accountability: One of the biggest problems with the current state of accountability on the boards is the somewhat awkward and confused state of on-board canon in the 2017 enviornment when it comes to Project Utopia and the international legal situation in regards to novas. Just to take a handful of examples: Waki and PW both represent a certain degree of vigilante justice in their geographic area. Likewise the WCK. It has yet to be established, and certainly not with any degree of clarity, how the United States government feels about these activities or what arrangements have been made to bypass the problems they represent for normal law and order.

In a similiar fashion, I recently represented Wargear taking part in a major African conflict in a fashion that would probably not meet with Project Utopia's approval, and might even involve sanctions from the group being placed on Alexandra. The reason that hasn't happened yet, in game, is that I'm unclear on the current status of Project Utopia, its political power and will, and whether it cares enough about African brushwars at the moment to get involved. I'm equally uncomfortable defining that policy all on my own, because once I do that the next person to come along either has to live by it or totally invalidate my interpretation, and possibly the story it's part of in the process. That, more than anything else, is the central problem with accountability in in 2017: who is going to prosecute novas, what powers do those authorities have at their disposal, and how should we as players relate to those authorities?

In some ways, that's made even more awkward by the fact that 2017 is a primarily Terat board. The characters (and thus often the players) have a natural interest in minimizing the power of national and international authorities because those authorities are the ones most likely to want to jail or kill them for being part of a dangerous, if not outright terrorist, movement. But the more we satisfy that impulse, for freedom of character expression in-game, the harder it becomes to hold anyone accountable for extreme behavior because the in-game authorities are so effectively hamstrung.

I won't dispute Velvet's second and third points in the least. Inter-player communication is crucial at both the "who is invited" and "what are we doing here" levels, and quite often that communication is lacking. Unfortunately, that's not a policy level decision, so it's up to the players themselves to improve that.

4) Realism. This is probably the weakest link in Velvet's prescription, and to a certain extent the weakest link for the board as a whole. Put in the simplest terms: every single person here has a different idea of what the accepted laws of the universe and common sense actually look like in practice, and most of the really violent arguments that people get into around here which lead to someone protest "the game isn't fun anymore" come out of a very simple problem: they and the person they're arguing with define 'common sense' and 'basic good conduct' in violently different and incompadible ways. Everyone reading this is about to say "Don't be silly, of course I know what common sense is!"

A couple of examples will serve here:

Waki thinks that his particular form of taint mutation, turning into a giant gryphon, is perfectly sensible and dramatically interesting. I have heard it expressed (and I'm not going to say who said it, because that's not the point here) that other people on the board think that use of taint and the aberration rules is outright silly or violates the basics of common sense. I don't care who's right on that one, but it illustrates my point: both sides have valid arguments that can be made, but both have very different definitions of what's 'realistic.'

A different example: Machina's player thinks that it's important to accurately reflect the Mega-bastard aberration that the character has in his stories and board conduct in a very literal way, because that's the way the rules and character work and he thinks it makes for better art and more fun for the board overall. Other people on the board think that it's a violation of common sense for his character to be as verbally rough as he is, and have repeatedly complained about it as making the game less fun for them. What's at issue there is: how literally do we take the rules in pursuit of a "realistic" game, and how much do we bend them for the general comfort of the board? Again, I'm not trying to argue either side. I'm just trying to point out the difference in definition.

Don't fall asleep on me, now. I know I'm going on and on, but I think the points are important to make.

One last example: The WCK is a semi-vigilante, semi-official group protecting the city of Chicago, and is mostly staffed by people with extremely sketchy personal histories. Most people accept this as realistic... but I, personally, consider it highly implausible. I don't complain because I think it makes for good stories, and I like the writing that comes out of it. So "realism" or "common sense" can't be ends in and of themselves, or lots of great ideas can't be put to use and a lot of fun can't be had. Unless we can come to a collective definition of what we do and don't consider sensible as a group (which I expect would be a very long, nasty fight), then this problem will just keep coming back.

Okay. Whew! That was long. Now, a few suggestions of my own:

1) As a courtesy, I think it would be good for people to attach to their character introductions/profiles a list of the legal protections or special statuses their character enjoys, so that anyone who wants to question their accountability can have that information ready at hand. I appreciate some people want to keep their characters mysterious, and maybe it should be provided on request by PM instead, but I think some form of official log of such legal protections made when they are gained is extremely worthwhile and shouldn't require reading fifty-plus pages of fiction.

2) I don't think the sub-forums are particularly wise, if only from the perspective of creating more isolation in what's already a slightly disjointed sense of a common universe. I think Hugin covered the rest of my thoughts on that pretty well.

I'm sure I could add more, but I've talked long enough for one post.

[The White Rat]

What I learned from the 'Accountability' part: is that once you choose a character who commits a criminal act, that you tend to be banned from any fiction after that. If there is a "Big Party'...forget about it. Your previous actions prevent you from attending safely. Now, that is not necessarily bad, except most of the characters here are 'good guys', even if they are not 'good'. A few more true 'villians' would be nice.

I do have one issue that does make me crazy (no pun intended). And that is the monopoly that the WCK have on Chicago. No-one would ever be able to move against them to unseat them from power (as villians tend to do), without their approval. Since that won't happen, and the outcome is dictated by ego; i.e. do not want their characters 'punked' or 'embarassed'. Many an interesting story would never get written. Whatever happened to the 'Tragic Hero', like Othello, Hamlet or Achilles.

Enough of my bitching... Later

[Velvet]

I agree with Wargear and WR's points that the WCK is not a good example of realism.

As far as your last point Rat, (no one would ever let their character lose/be humiliated/be humbled) is concerned, I disagree to an extent. I have seen it happen, though regrettably not often. Not everyone gets to look cool all the time, realistically, though I also understand that some people feel the need to make sure they do. Sometimes, even as a nova, life just sucks, and there's no After School Special Happy Ending.

As far as perceptions of realism go, here are some of mine, without names cited.

Not realistic:

Novas who can be anywhere, do anything, with no accountability to anyone and flimsy justification for their actions.

Novas who erupt with power levels on par with Pax and Mal.

Novas who regularly perform feats that would be impossible under the international trade laws/FCC rules/Geneva convention/EPA standards/etc.

Novas who represent or work alongside major corporations or public entities (including governmental agencies) that cannot logically explain how said nova achieved their position.

Novas who cannot explain reasonably why they're fertile when no one else is/their physiology shouldn't allow for it.

Realistic:

Novas who pretend to be gods and are summarily attacked by religious groups.

Novas who slaughter en masse and are no longer permitted to travel in polite society.

Novas who are not Terats.

Novas who are not super-powerful, but are much more engaging because they have personalities and depth.

Novas who live normal lives without impenetrable Fortresses of Solitude.

Bear in mind, of course, these are only examples, but each of them is pulled (if only obliquely) from these forums. We all have our moments of, "Okay, I wish I could retcon that," and that's understandable. I'm not looking to impose more rules on people. If anything, when these issues arise, I'd just like for the general consensus of the boards to be considered by the offending player and see if the work can be salvaged. Otherwise, we shouldn't be afraid to slap a large "NC" label on things.

[Warren Verona]

I'm not a person that can have this conversation and not name drop, and eventually piss someone off. Velvet seems to be covering most of my opinions in a far more civil manner then what I would be able to.

I hope everyone here can find some way to improve the excitement of the game. For themselves and for other players.

~Dave

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Hugin

I don't think subforums are really necessary. If anything it would encourage seperatism. Folks not bothering to read such and such forum because they're "not involved". Just my POV.

I agree. I like being able to see all that's going on in the N!Prime world from one easy forum. Like CNN!Prime.

[Hugin]

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

A few more true 'villians' would be nice.

In your opinion. To me, "villains" belong in comic books and Aberrant is not a comic book setting (yep, I said it.)

Villains, in my opinion, are silly, absurd and unrealistic.

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Chosen

Is there a big problem with uninvited players in fictions?

In my opinion this boils down to communication. If you're going to pop in make sure all parties know before you do.

Personally I haven't seen any of this. At least not in the fictions I've done.

Quote:

I'll let you all discuss the accountability & realism before I comment on them.

I'm stepping out of this one. I've bitched about this so many times in chat that I sound like a broken record. All I've gotten are people pissed off at me. It's almost pointless, people get away with whatever they want and there is nothing we can do to stop it.

Hell, Sandcaster had to up her character's power level because she got sick of characters like Cade and Jager doing all the work before any Knight got on the scene. I find that just pathetic. She was practically ran off the team because, frankly, she was useless! WOW! What fun for her... sign me up for that kinda play.

They don't need a leader, the city just needs those characters Op-phone numbers.

We got Long, they guy who is better at Temproal Manipulation then the Misstress of the Cosmos herself, Timeslip. He has 5 dots and calls it "the basic idea of the principals". What's 10 dots? "starting to get a clue?" What's the point in working so hard at a themed and focused character wen someone else hops right up and says "Hey, I have no real justification for learning that except for wanting to be utterly unstoppable."

We got Ultimax (I know he was created as bit of a joke, but still) who erupted at 200+ NPs.

We got Wakinyan... ugh, I haven't the time, nor the patience.

And before someone says it, yes, we got Revenant too. He's sick, and is going to get worse as long as players keep introducing characters that are gross in power levels. If someone said the word tomorrow, I'd rewite Revenant to fit whatever power level they felt he should have, providing the others did the same. I'm not here to be the biggest and the baddest, I'm here to play a lug head anit-hero who might one day be a decent guy, or fall from grace and take a part of the world with him.

I'd like to win a brawl, I'd like to lose a brawl. I'd like to write dramatic fictions where the WCK are actually worried that they might have to burn a calorie for once! I'd like to write romance so we can laugh at Reven make an ass of himself. I'd like to throw a car on a villian. I'd like to crunch a car up into a ball for no apparent reason. I'd like to have another train dropped on Revenant. I'd like to have Revenant be stuck teaming up with a nova who is his polar opposite or just plain annoys the hell out of him (like Mithril). All that to me is Aberrant: drama, excitement, romance, action, comedy, being really frickin super powered and makin' damn sure the extras know it.

So you guys figure it out and let me know WTF is going on. I'll be in the other room drinkin a Cherry Coke and playing Play Station.

~Dave

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Hugin

Villains, in my opinion, are silly, absurd and unrealistic.

No more absurd and unrealistic than a super powered terrorist. While I agree that Aberrant is not a comic book setting, let's face the facts, at least more than one Nova could conveivably beome a terrorist and decide wage a war on a particular nation (or city, or state, etc...).

Think about it. A nova playing 'villian' is not too far off. Granted I wouldn't expect to see fancy costumes or anything, cuz those are for comic books...

Nothing lame like... Mal's sexy like outfit complete with cape, or Tote's purple spandex and gold mask, or Pax's T2M spandex, or Shard's crystal mask, or Kikjak's snazzy little outfit, nope... nothing like fancy capes and silly outfits like what those comic books have... none of that here.

Heh.

[Hugin]

Oh...fuck you Rev.

Each example you gave is a prime example of marketing (except for Pax. Fucker has some ego.)

And I'm fine with a nova terrorist, but the use of the word 'villain' has a certain connotation. One that calls up images of the Joker, Mr. Mind or the Green Goblin. That seems a little too far afield.

[Virago]

I have created characters that range from the 30-50NP range (Ultraviolet, Quanta, Dervish, Lynne O'Neal, Esther Bluecorn) to the medium (Codex in the beginning, the early Sujatmi Rais, Rumble, Serendipity) to the blatantly ridiculous (Samhra these days, Sujatmi Rais as Butterfly after she spent a crapload of XP, Synergy) yet have never once applied for a Q6 character.

I have played T2M'ers, Utopians, Terats, Independents, Interpol cops, even a mercenary (Moonshadow). I concede my problem is a fertile imagination and short attention span when it comes to characters, but I have always tried to avoid stepping on other people's shoes.

I have sliding definitions of reasonable, which I concede might be based on personal dislike of an individual.

My advice is to have a basic background that you never deviate from, explanations for everything you have, a common theme to your powers (Esther manipulates Taint, Samhra handles visual information, Butterfly manipulates probability and random chaos with shapeshifting as a close second) and a story-based reason for deviating from said theme (Samhra attempting to short-circuit Waki's Taint-induced fit by bridging the emotional energy through herself and Tainting herself up).

This needs to be set up in advance.

A sense of humour and a thick skin never hurts either.

And if all else fails, take a break until you remember it's just a game.

[AquaMarine]

Originally Posted By: Revenant

Originally Posted By: Hugin

Villains, in my opinion, are silly, absurd and unrealistic.

No more absurd and unrealistic than a super powered terrorist.

No to be annoying but can you name one villain/super powered terrorist in the Aberrant setting that doesn't have either "ST fiat" or "plot device" stamped on their foreheads?

The problem is its doesn't matter what you craft or how interesting the character or their back-story might be. All it takes is one character with something like telepathy and the story is over. And because everyone knows that, ten seconds after Aquamarine admitted to proactively working with Green War a growing number of posters would declare it unrealistic Project Utopia hadn't strung him up yesterday. The only characters that can get away with that sort of thing are NPCs and canon characters. So its not that a villain/terrorist shouldn't reasonably happen in the setting.

But would it be allowed to happen at RPG-Post?

[Seph OOC]

I'm actually totally cool with antagonist characters. But my vision of "antagonist" may be a bit broad; I consider Hugin an antagonist, for example. You don't have to be ridiculous and ostentatious to be a "villan", right? Some of the best "villains" aren't flashy or overblown. A few great ones I can name just off the top of my head are Hannibal Lecter, Macbeth, Two Face, Rasputin, Ra'as Al Ghul, almost the entirety of the 007 rogues gallery, Doctor Drakken (yeah, he's from Kim Possible, shut the hell up), Mr. Burns, the entire rogues gallery from the Metal Gear Solid series... All fine villains, and frequently no goofy costumes required. I love me some villains.

You know what the only thing better than villains are, though? Tragic moral ambiguity. I have a fucking hard-on for tragic moral ambiguity, and it's something I've done with a lot of characters here.

Oh, and Aqua? Your character being a member of GreenWar totally gets a pass from me. The Project isn't omniscient. Of course, this is coming from the guy whose first character was by a steep margin the world's most prolific serial killer, so take that with a bit of salt.