opnet [OpNet] So i have built forth a few of the temples

[Good Alice]

You do not like me putting word in your mouth but you are more than willing to to put words in mine. Grow and study what you are trying to attack. I could point out all the things atheists do the world that is wrong and blame it on you, but I don't.

You put me in the same boat as religions that are dualistic. I do not believe in good or evil. I do not say you should die because you do not believe in the same gods as I do, or prey the same way. You just put me in the same lot as those who do.

[Good Alice]

Trooper, you do not understand the point of the temple to the unknown god. This fine.It is not somethign normal in the modern world. It is not to put a lazy god but rather to not miss a god that you do not know. I do not know the 10,000 gods of India ,let alone the world but I do not wish to disrespect any god by not at least saying I am still searching.

[Regina Newcastle]

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

You do not like me putting word in your mouth but you are more than willing to to put words in mine.

I don't need to put words in your mouth, Mm. Alice, and I certainly don't need to stoop to such debase measures as outright lying to make my point. I warn you not to spread lies about me in the future.

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

I could point out all the things atheists do the world that is wrong and blame it on you, but I don't.

Unless these "wrong things" you speak of are directly caused by atheism, you've got no case at all. 95% of all rapists have had mayonnaise, so mayonnaise must cause rape, right?

That said, this should be good. Please, regale me with your wrongheaded little list.

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

You put me in the same boat as religions that are dualistic. I do not believe in good or evil.

I'm not a robot, madam. Paradoxes don't fry my circuitry, they just make me think you're bloody barmy.

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

I do not say you should die because you do not believe in the same gods as I do, or prey the same way. You just put me in the same lot as those who do.

I never claimed you wanted me dead, Mm. Alice, nor did I even imply by association that you wanted to murder anybody. I simply said - as I have maintained from the beginning - that I have nothing but contempt for your genuflection to baseline myths and fairie stories that even children don't believe.

[Machina]

You know, Hexapus, I think this whole "Unknown God" crap sounds pretty fuckin' great. A temple for all the imaginary friends you miss so none of the kids are left out, right? It'll warm the cockles of my heart to see votives to Persephone next to sacrifices to Ao. It'll warm them even more when the followers of that grab bag of gods you decided to accomodate with just one temple start killing each other for the honor of Enbilulu/Kvasir/Atum-Re/Walo/Xochipilli/whoever.

Way to go. You've started a giant game of King of the Mountain for jackasses. In other words, you've nailed the religious aspect of this almost perfectly.

Really, though, Septapus, you've got my support. I, for one, love religious animosity and holy wars. It's like a game where no matter who loses, I always win!

[Ptesan-Wi]

Good Alice,

Not to disparage the thoughts behind your work... but please stop. You don't know what you are doing.

I don't mean that to be an insult, and I don't mean to say that your temples are going to fall down because of structural problems or something. I mean that you should not be building these temples for faiths to which you do not subscribe (other than as a simple construction contractor for members of said faith, building the physical structure to their specifications and at their request).

For instance, there's a medicine wheel on top of Inyan Kara. The tribe built it, together, even though my husband and I did much of the heavy lifting. It is a sacred place to our people; a temple. You could study it and then copy it to the last pebble, but what you had at the end would not be a sacred place, because the spirit of the People would not be a part of it. It would not be a temple, but just a replica of a temple.

That is what you are really building: replicas of temples. Even though you then give them to people of faith, that is what they remain. It is like giving a hungry man a decorate wax apple and telling him to eat.

[Gerald Haney]

Pretty much Ptesan, she's creating trump l'oeil religious sites. Meaningless.

Sorry, Alice.

[Warren Verona]

I have to hear her argument to that one.

And what the hell is a l'oeil? Ain't he that teragen guy that pops in here from time to time? What's she building temples to him for?

[The White Rat]

Regina:

If you remember history, Communism and Socialism, which are based on athiesm(i.e. Marxism), killed 100 million people in the 20th Century. This number surpasses those killed by religion in any 1000 year period. It is not religion which kills, but ideology.

Communism and Socialism, it can be argued, are religions. Not religions based on god and an afterlife of heaven/hell, but instead, utopian religions where man is god, and can create a heaven on earth. It's ironic that in trying to create 'Heaven on Earth' they actually create 'Hell on Earth'.

,,

[Mithril]

Every time I write you off as being batshit crazy or a psychopathic lunatic, you go and write something thoroughly lucid like that.

Neat.

[Good Alice]

Ignorant, arrogant child. Point out one time when i said I do not believe these gods I built temples are real. I have not said one way or the other about my religious beliefs, or at least tried not to. You assume that because I am not out there preaching means I do not believe?

[Tempest]

Then why the hell are you building a bunch of temples to mythological gods?

What are you getting out of it?

[Ptesan-Wi]

Considering that, among other things, you've attempted to build a temple to "unknown gods", I think it's a fairly safe bet to say that you are now playing a distinctly non-spiritual game called "covering your ass".

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

Ignorant, arrogant child. Point out one time when i said I do not believe these gods I built temples are real. I have not said one way or the other about my religious beliefs, or at least tried not to. You assume that because I am not out there preaching means I do not believe?

You're wasting time, land and resources to build empty buildings? I was going to be nice, but you are a waste of a node, Good Alice. Every board you have wasted could be used for a house for the homeless. Every acre of land you have wasted could be used for parks, homes or even left natural. Every dollar you have wasted could have been used to cure the remaining world diseases, help find missing and exploited children or used for scholarships. Those, by the way, would all be much better ways to cover your metaphysical ass (thank, Ptesan-Wi) than erecting empty, wasted structures.

I don't say this lightly to anyone, but you are a complete idiot.

Those are gods that some people worship by the way; I note that you haven't mentioned temples to Allah or Jehovah. Do believe that they exist, but other dieties don't? Who are you to decide which gods are mythical and which aren't?

[Hugin]

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

I have built a temple to To the unknown God,Isis, Sol, Mithra, Sheva, Kali, Odin, and I am nearly done with the temple to Zeus.

Ignoring the philosophical discussions for the moment I have to say I find them...unimpressive. Really, no spark, no imagination or brilliance to them. They're so pedestrian.

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

I am saying this because these temples are now open to visitors, and those who wish to build temples of their own may do so.

Why...thank you. I didn't realize we had to wait for your permission.

[Lyn 'Indigo' Ross]

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

Ignorant, arrogant child. Point out one time when i said I do not believe these gods I built temples are real. I have not said one way or the other about my religious beliefs, or at least tried not to. You assume that because I am not out there preaching means I do not believe?

You're wasting time, land and resources to build empty buildings? I was going to be nice, but you are a waste of a node, Good Alice. Every board you have wasted could be used for a house for the homeless. Every acre of land you have wasted could be used for parks, homes or even left natural. Every dollar you have wasted could have been used to cure the remaining world diseases, help find missing and exploited children or used for scholarships. Those, by the way, would all be much better ways to cover your metaphysical ass (thank, Ptesan-Wi) than erecting empty, wasted structures.

I don't say this lightly to anyone, but you are a complete idiot.

Those are gods that some people worship by the way; I note that you haven't mentioned temples to Allah or Jehovah. Do believe that they exist, but other dieties don't? Who are you to decide which gods are mythical and which aren't?

Nicely put, Sylvan.

[Good Alice]

Never said I was genius, never said they were new ideas.

I am letting anyone build on my land if they do so with respect and care.

[Good Alice]

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

You're wasting time, land and resources to build empty buildings? I was going to be nice, but you are a waste of a node, Good Alice. Every board you have wasted could be used for a house for the homeless. Every acre of land you have wasted could be used for parks, homes or even left natural. Every dollar you have wasted could have been used to cure the remaining world diseases, help find missing and exploited children or used for scholarships. Those, by the way, would all be much better ways to cover your metaphysical ass (thank, Ptesan-Wi) than erecting empty, wasted structures.

I don't say this lightly to anyone, but you are a complete idiot.

Those are gods that some people worship by the way; I note that you haven't mentioned temples to Allah or Jehovah. Do believe that they exist, but other dieties don't? Who are you to decide which gods are mythical and which aren't?

No, you are a compleat hypocrite who misses the whole point. I have religious beliefs so I set forth to make art work in that theme. I let people come together and do the same, you call it a waste of resources. Well, you are talking the person who has laid down more rail, and road than anyone in all of human history. I have built cities worth of homes for the homeless, leveled more area than most nations for farm land.

I have done all that and more mainly for free, and the fees I charge go into funding other projects.

I could point out the fact that you talk of parks as if they are some how worth wile to build, but you have not seen the temples I have built. If you do not believe in the gods, I built temples for, that is fine I made them into works of art that anyone can enjoy regardless of religious beliefs. They are parks with deeper meaning to those who wish to have deeper meaning in them.

I am do not have any spiritual leanings to the Jewish, Christian, Islamic, or any other dualistic religion's god, but I will not rule it out to have others build temples to it, that is if they wish to. I simply will not build one myself. As ofr what gods are mythical and what gods are real, I am not desiding that,I am simply building the ones that I see as most fitiing. I will build more as time goes on but I have to do other things as well, and I do not have unlimited resource just enough to do most things I want to do.

[Lyn 'Indigo' Ross]

.....

Alice, is English your first language?

[z-Silvestru]

You have missed my entire point. I could explain, but it's pointless. I stand by my last post completely.

But let me say this: your previous charities are wonderful, I don't know why you couldn't just continue to do those good works. I don't know why you had a waste resources to build buildings only so they can be works of art. And from what Hugin has said, not very good ones at that.

[Warren Verona]

The more I read this, the dumber I get.

Or, in Good Alicese:

Dumber I get reading the more this I am.

[Good Alice]

No, fuck you Sylvan. What good have you done for the world? What have you done?When is the last time you walked in a war zone and rebuilt a damn under the threat of tanks and bombs? When was the last time you spent days on end building homes or feeding the homeless... When you have done a fraction of what I have done, you can complain about what I do in my free time. I could do more "good" for the world, but I really think the world needs more art, and to learn from the past. You think I am a demon because I do not give everything to the world, well fuck you.

At what point do I gain the right to something for myself? Never? Tell you what do you get angery or upset at the novas who have tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars sitting in bank accounts? What about the windy city knights, they only stop crime in one area, they don't even improve the quality of life of those around them. Yet, I build works of art to honor many religions, and I suddenly am wasting resources?

By the way, the temples, the land, and the resources cost me my time and roughly 5 million dollars. I have more land, more rocks, more trees, and more ore. You know what? That is less money than what I would get from Utopia in a year if I asked for them to pay me.They offered to pay me roughly three times that.

So, I say fuck you, cause the world is not worth my soul.

[Erin 'Stellar' Donovan]

Oh.. This is beautiful. I have to wipe the tears from my eyes because I am laughing so hard.

You want to do some good for the world Alice? Take that rant and go on a tour of stand-up comedy clubs. And the (seemingly) fact that you have actually conviced yourself of those things is the best part. Laughter is always a good thing.

[Regina Newcastle]

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

If you remember history, Communism and Socialism, which are based on athiesm(i.e. Marxism), killed 100 million people in the 20th Century. This number surpasses those killed by religion in any 1000 year period. It is not religion which kills, but ideology.

I don't disagree with your basic assertion, Msr. Rat, but I'm not a dogmatist of any kind. I take issue with your categorization of Communism and Socialism as inherently atheistic; they are not. Both systems are by their nature irreligious, but certainly not antireligious in any way, as you pointed out yourself.
Furthermore, I again point out that I don't advocate atheism as just another dogmatic assertion. I freely maintain that I am personally an atheist, but that is a conclusion that I arrived at by examining the evidence and through analysis of available data. I am not so much an advocate of atheism as I am an advocate of sceptical inquiry and the intellectual honesty required to look at the world through the lens of objective reality, even when that means facing up to some rather unpleasant truths. In that same vein, I am not so much opposed to religion itself as I am to its frequent counterpart, dogma. And whether one types Marxism as a "religion" or not, one thing that the regimes of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc. were most assuredly was dogmatic.
I can think of no society or civilisation in history that suffered for becoming too reasonable. It is only when scepticism and inquiry yield to dogma and authority that people become effectively subjugated.

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

Communism and Socialism, it can be argued, are religions. Not religions based on god and an afterlife of heaven/hell, but instead, utopian religions where man is god, and can create a heaven on earth. It's ironic that in trying to create 'Heaven on Earth' they actually create 'Hell on Earth'.

It very much is, Msr. Rat.

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

Every board you have wasted could be used for a house for the homeless. Every acre of land you have wasted could be used for parks, homes or even left natural. Every dollar you have wasted could have been used to cure the remaining world diseases, help find missing and exploited children or used for scholarships.

Chloe, could not the exact same be said of every cathedral, every church, every Bible? Please understand, I share your sense of outrage and I feel it deeply. But that same sense of outrage you feel at seeing Alice waste fantastic natural resources on empty appeals to ridiculous myths is the same sense of outrage that I feel when I see trees being harvested for Bibles instead of science textbooks or lumber and land going to houses of worship rather than houses for the homeless and infirm.

[z-Silvestru]

First, to Regina:

Quote:

Chloe, could not the exact same be said of every cathedral, every church, every Bible? Please understand, I share your sense of outrage and I feel it deeply. But that same sense of outrage you feel at seeing Alice waste fantastic natural resources on empty appeals to ridiculous myths is the same sense of outrage that I feel when I see trees being harvested for Bibles instead of science textbooks or lumber and land going to houses of worship rather than houses for the homeless and infirm.

I understand your feelings, and I respect your opinion. But at least those books and buildings will be used for something that will inspire and uplift people, even if you don't agree with their way of inspiring themselves.

And to Good Alice:

A few points. I don't complain about what you do in your free time; I merely pointed out that the resources you were using to build these temples might be better used in other ways, if you were trying to better mankind. And I did point out that you have done much to benefit mankind. But I still believe that you are wasting resources building empty buildings without the spark of divinity in them. There is a difference between a work of art shaped like a church and a church itself; that difference is Divinity. If you wanted to honor others' faiths, then honor them; don't build wasteful structures.

I have done little, but most of my life since eruption has been one crisis after another. Many of these were my own doing, I will admit, but that doesn't change the fact that I've had little time to do anything other than survive. Thanks to my friend Flicker and her money magic, I now have the time to focus on using my powers for others.

And last, there is no reason to use foul language. We are adults here, or so the theory goes. Speak to me like an adult, or I will treat you like I treat all nasty, loud children.

[Regina Newcastle]

Quote:

I understand your feelings, and I respect your opinion. But at least those books and buildings will be used for something that will inspire and uplift people, even if you don't agree with their way of inspiring themselves.

Yet you clearly find it ridiculous to assume that Alice's project could also have that effect. Do you not see how deeply confusing this is to me? Mm. Alice's religious buildings are silly to you because they are dedicated to obviously false gods and therefore useless so far as you can see, but your own religious buildings get a carte blanche from you because you find inspiration and uplifting feelings within their walls? What of all the people who may be inspired or uplifted by Alice's temples? Do they not count because they disagree with you?

Clearly, I do not agree with their means of inspiring themselves, but there is nothing duplicitous or hypocritical in that sentiment in my case. For your part, I cannot resolve how you can so blithely condemn a fantasy you do not endorse while simultaneously defending the fantasy you do. Can't you see that they're exactly the same?

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Regina Newcastle

Mm. Alice's religious buildings are silly to you because they are dedicated to obviously false gods and therefore useless so far as you can see, but your own religious buildings get a carte blanche from you because you find inspiration and uplifting feelings within their walls? What of all the people who may be inspired or uplifted by Alice's temples? Do they not count because they disagree with you?

Good Alice is approaching a matter of faith from a perspective of art, not worship. Had she created art about the dieties, that is one thing. But she calls them temples; houses of worship, yet they are not intended for that purpose. At very worst, she's misnaming her product.

If people are inspired by Alice's temples, then that is good. It is my opinion that they won't be inspired by them. And I said previously that I do not discount other's inspiration just because it comes from a different religion as my own.

Originally Posted By: Regina Newcastle

Clearly, I do not agree with their means of inspiring themselves, but there is nothing duplicitous or hypocritical in that sentiment in my case. For your part, I cannot resolve how you can so blithely condemn a fantasy you do not endorse while simultaneously defending the fantasy you do. Can't you see that they're exactly the same?

With all due respect, that is your opinion. You have done all this research and have drawn the conclusion that religions are fantasy. That, Regina, is your opinion, and you do not have a monopoly on truth. You do not speak for all of us, and indeed, I do not feel that religions are fake. Can you not respect that I have an opinion that differs from you?

[Leliel]

I would have to say I qualify as an agnostic, as I can currently neither prove nor disprove the existance of gods/greater entities/etc.

One thing that I can say is that "fake" is probably not the right term to use for religions. "Flawed" is the term I would use, since regardless of the existance/nonexistance of gods, religions were created by Man.

Therefore, from a logical argument, any dogmatic religion has been influenced by man's philosophies, foibles, and psychology, and therefore cannot be considered pure from either a scientific or a theological standpoint.

I don't deny people their ability to believe. I share Ms Newcastle's opinion that many of these beliefs may be parly delusional, but that is merely my opinion and I begrudge noone their beliefs, however wrong they may or may not be.

Now, , if religions are being spread by force...that is an entirely different argument, but that does not at all seem the case here.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Leliel

I don't deny people their ability to believe. I share Ms Newcastle's opinion that many of these beliefs may be partly delusional, but that is merely my opinion and I begrudge no one their beliefs, however wrong they may or may not be.

Thank you, Leliel. I know that I feel the same way and would continue to feel that way regardless, but it's nice to have others agreeing with you.

[Loge]

Alice... build your temples. Gather the stones and bake the bricks. Mix the mud and plaster the sticks. A thing crafted by the human mind and dedicated to the divine is a lense. Nothing useful may come of it but things are often less than certain when it comes to the divine. When your task is done we may have time to talk. Until then, good luck. Try not to be so harsh though. It doesn't suit you. More to the point, scolding dense bits of metal with a piece of flint only creates knives.

Thank you for the offer of building my own temples but buildings mean little to me.

[Good Alice]

Sylvan you do not know what I do or do not believe in. You most likely wouldn't understand what I believe in the dogma of the world today is so tarnished by redemption cults that I do not think most people would understand what I believe in. Not only that, it is not my place to preach what I believe in. No mater what I do to further explain what I believe in I would be preaching to you on some level.

I found it offensive that you took the idea that I said from a non-believer's point of view they could be works of art. From the point of view of the believer they can see the devine. I did not say what point of view I had.

[z-Silvestru]

Alice, you don't say your point of view, and that takes us right back to Ptesan Wi's point. You cannot accurately construct temples to all these gods because either you're a non-believer doing this for some unknown reason, or you're a follower, and no one person can follow all those gods. Some research into the gods you've named to this point:

unknown God - enough said; is unknown and therefore, you can't even begin to know what pleases him as far as design and architecture. Only the Greeks venerated this god, and they did it as a way to cover their asses, spiritually.

Isis - the ultimate woman, according to the Egyptians; her temples looked something like this.

Sol - and here we have our first problem with your temples. Sol is also known as Mithra! I found this out with minimal research in a few minutes, more than you did, apparently.

Mithra - a Jesus-like diety who mediated between God and man. He was worshipped in artifical caves.

Sheva - does not exist, though Sheva Brachot is a Jewish blessing. Shiva is the "God of Gods". I think Zeus and Odin would have some misgivings about that.

Kali - do you mean the Hindu goddess or the Hindu demon by the same name? And if it is the former, did you build her temple honoring her in her tradition role as the Goddess of Death or Destruction or her more modern aspect as a benevolent Mother-Goddess?

Odin - Norse god of wisdom, war, battle and death, as well as of magic, poetry, prophecy, victory, and the hunt. He was also the highest god in the Norse pantheon, and unlikely to enjoy being the subordinate of a Hindu god.

Zeus - the highest ranking god in the Greek pantheon, and someone who might not like Shiva's claims to the God of Gods.

Simply put, Alice, it takes years of study to understand one of these pantheons fully, to learn how to worship these gods in a way that doesn't offend them. So as Ptesan-Wi said, you have the best of intentions, but you're doing it all the wrong way. If your going to do this; do it right. Get modern-day followers of these dieties (and they are out there) to direct you as you build. Let them put the spark of divinity in your buildings.

[The White Rat]

I am the unknown god. I can hear them whispering my name while they cower in fear from my wrath. Build my temple Alice, so I may sacrafice these worshipers to my monstrous glory.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: The White Rat

I am the unknown god. I can hear them whispering my name while they cower in fear from my wrath. Build my temple Alice, so I may sacrafice these worshipers to my monstrous glory.

She's already built that temple, but I don't think she had you in mind. I still think you need to get donations going from your followers.

And yes, that is a joke.

[Ultimax]

Okay, I need a catch up here.

Where is this island and can people actually get their to worship at the temples?

[Regina Newcastle]

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

Good Alice is approaching a matter of faith from a perspective of art, not worship. Had she created art about the dieties, that is one thing. But she calls them temples; houses of worship, yet they are not intended for that purpose. At very worst, she's misnaming her product.

So your opposition to Mm. Alice's project is really more aesthetic than practical. To you, it doesn't really matter that the materials and time going into this project are wasted on religious iconography, it only becomes affrontable when the time and materials do not have conviction backing them up.

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

If people are inspired by Alice's temples, then that is good. It is my opinion that they won't be inspired by them. And I said previously that I do not discount other's inspiration just because it comes from a different religion as my own.

By this line of thought, it follows that the same could be said of any "church" that was built for any reason other than worship. Shall we then find and demolish these "false" Christian churches, or does the fact that true believers now visit these houses of worship make them viable? And if so, would you acquiesce if genuine worshippers showed up to prostrate themselves at Alice's "false" churches?

Originally Posted By: Sylvan

With all due respect, that is your opinion. You have done all this research and have drawn the conclusion that religions are fantasy. That, Regina, is your opinion, and you do not have a monopoly on truth. You do not speak for all of us, and indeed, I do not feel that religions are fake. Can you not respect that I have an opinion that differs from you?

I will answer with a quote from Douglas Adams:

Quote:

"Now, the invention of the scientific method is, I’m sure we’ll all agree, the most powerful intellectual idea, the most powerful framework for thinking and investigating and understanding and challenging the world around us that there is, and it rests on the premise that any idea is there to be attacked. If it withstands the attack then it lives to fight another day and if it doesn’t withstand the attack then down it goes. Religion doesn’t seem to work like that. It has certain ideas at the heart of it which we call sacred or holy or whatever. What it means is, “Here is an idea or a notion that you’re not allowed to say anything bad about; you’re just not. Why not? — because you’re not!” If somebody votes for a party that you don’t agree with, you’re free to argue about it as much as you like; everybody will have an argument but nobody feels aggrieved by it. If somebody thinks taxes should go up or down you are free to have an argument about it. But on the other hand if somebody says “I mustn’t move a light switch on a Saturday,” you say, “I respect that.”

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Regina

By this line of thought, it follows that the same could be said of any "church" that was built for any reason other than worship. Shall we then find and demolish these "false" Christian churches, or does the fact that true believers now visit these houses of worship make them viable? And if so, would you acquiesce if genuine worshippers showed up to prostrate themselves at Alice's "false" churches?

It isn't a matter of acquiescing. It is a matter of my opinion, something you clearly don't understand. As I have said, divine inspiration, whatever its source, is good. But the fact remains that Good Alice is either building works of art, not temples or she's building temples willy-nilly, with very little understanding of the traditions behind her religions. I find that to be disturbing.

And I have no doubt that people will come to see her temples, but whether they come to see them because they were built by a nova or because out of reverence will be an interesting question. Or would they come to worship only because it was built by a nova? Would they, in a way, be worshipping the nova who built them? And would people come if they had been built by a baseline? Probably not, not unless that baseline was famous.

Also, I wonder what kind of people will come to worship; being on an island, it's remote enough that some social levels won't be able to visit, no matter how much they might wish.

But I digress. As for your question about tearing down "false churches," perhaps you could provide a real-life example of what you are talking about, as I'm not sure I can give an opinion based on the tiny amount of information you have provided.

And regarding opinions: interesting that you use a quote from a science fiction author. I'm willing to argue religion with you, but because it falls outside the scientific umbrella, there is a point where you have to acknowledge that there is no right answer. Because if there was a right answer, then you would be able to prove that God does or doesn't exist. And since it's unproveable, it's a conversation that can never end. So at some point, you just have to let go and drop it.

Or maybe you feel that you don't need to drop it. But that's your opinion, and you're free to feel that way. Because that's the way respect works in theological discussions. We don't have to agree.

[Good Alice]

I did not say it was an island. Sylvan, you know some religions have more gods than there are people. You know some that some religions do not hold their noses so high as to think they are the only one who are right. You do not know my religious views and are clearly tainted by the ideas that were spewed forth from redemption cults. I do not believe in a "hell" or a "heaven". That is about as in depth I will go into my religious stand points.

If you wish to learn more you can ask in private.

The temples are in Southern Mexico. Just if anyone really cared.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Good Alice

I did not say it was an island. Sylvan, you know some religions have more gods than there are people. You know some that some religions do not hold their noses so high as to think they are the only one who are right. You do not know my religious views and are clearly tainted by the ideas that were spewed forth from redemption cults. I do not believe in a "hell" or a "heaven". That is about as in depth I will go into my religious stand points.

If you wish to learn more you can ask in private.

The temples are in Southern Mexico. Just if anyone really cared.

You're right, I don't know what your religious views are, and that's one reason I'm concerned. You seemed determined to honor all these gods and goddesses without a concern for the proper way to do it. It's like forcing hard candy on someone who only likes white chocolate.

I never said your religion was wrong, only that the way you're going about it is wrong. In fact, I've only commented on your actions and what little you've said here.

And you have no idea what my religious beliefs are either, so don't make presumptions.

[Ptesan-Wi]

At this point, I think it is safe to say the following:

1. The mutual-exclusivity of worship of some of the named gods to which Good Alice has constructed temple-shaped structures places significant doubt on her semi-claim* to having any personal investment in said structures. (*semi-claim, as she has been unwilling to make a firm statement in either direction, but rather has offered "maybe I do, maybe I don't" as a form of blanket protection from criticism)

2. The coy half-answers that Good Alice gives regarding the matter of these structures make extremely unlikely any positive resolution to this discussion.

As such, I recommend that the matter be dropped; Good Alice will do what she wishes on her private land, and if what she wishes is to build a collection of temple replicas without regard to criticism, religious sensitivities and good taste, there is little that can or should be done about it other than to simply ignore her. She is a member of the One Race, and has every right to conduct her life in whatever fashion - however misguided - she pleases, so long as her fists do not connect with our noses.

[z-Rheinlander]

Ms. Alice,

Should you require assistance, I would be happy to help you design a house of worship for any of the Æsir. I would happily provide information on Vor Si r to you, or to anyone who wishes instruction.

I apologize for the belated reply, ma'am - I should have offered this much earlier, but my duties keep me very busy.

Sincerely,

Rheinlander