opnet [OpNet] Who the hell does Utopia think it is?

[Esther Bluecorn]

I'm sure I'll be preaching to a substantial choir here, but I feel the need to vent over Project Utopia and its attitudes towards novas from a traditional tribal background.

I erupted during a healing ceremony over a nova with severe Taint and managed to alleviate the symptoms for a few minutes, which was enough time for him to decide to seek out teachers in the Teragen, if certain rumours are to be considered true. Of course, it hit the news all over the Southwest, and Project Utopia's Intervention Team showed up.

When I politely declined to go with them, rumours began to circulate in the media that 'India Syndrome' was starting on the reservation, much like what is happening with the Lakota under Wakinyan and Ptesan-Wi. It took a direct threat for litigation over character defamation from the tribal government for them to back off and drop it.

But now I'm receiving twice-weekly emails from them asking to run tests on my powers, because they think I'm unique! Furthermore, they're hinting that I don't know anything about how quantum works, that I might be heading for Taint myself, etcetera, etcetera.

Contrary to popular belief, Navajo children go through the same education system as most Americans, and many of us even complete high school and go onto further education. I am one of those people.

But because I want little to nothing to do with the Project - remember the fuck-up in Ibiza they started? - and I follow traditional belief systems, I am being treated like the poor little ignorant squaw in need of the big white man to save me from myself.

Disgusting, isn't it?

By the way, I am Esther Bluecorn - Navajo tribal elder and something of a medicine healer. It is nice to meet you all, and to come to this board.

[Ptesan-Wi]

Utopia thinks that they are the end-all, be-all of what is right and proper for novas. And their version of what is right and proper for novas is to be, in effect, servants of baselines.

Needless to say, I don't see that as the destiny of the One Race.

Welcome to N!Prime, Ester Bluecorn, both as a member of the One Race and of the People.

[Long]

First off, welcome to boards Ms. Bluecorn. I hope you enjoy your time spent here.

The ability you describe is quite rare, hence Utopia's attempt to bring you into their fold. I am glad they didn't succeed, too often young novas are swayed by Utopia's promises and then made into "good little novas" without thought for their beliefs and personal desires.

If there's any form of assistance you need please don't hesitate to ask. I think you'll find the comunity here a generous one.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Indeed. Welcome to the boards Ms Bluecorn.

..remember the fuck-up in Ibiza they started?

All too well. I think that would be high on their list of things they wish they could undo. I can think of a few others, death of Slag for example.

...I am being treated like the poor little ignorant squaw in need of the big white man to save me from myself.

Speaking as Utopian researcher and not a spokesman, I think a big part of their (read 'our') issue is they (meaning 'we') are thinking about the people you could save. Taint is, to put it lightly, not well understood.

It would appear that your quantum gifts allow you an influence and insight over aberrations that I have been attempting to gain for years.

[Leliel]

Welcome to the One Race, Esther Bluecorn. My heart leaps whenever a new Nova enters the world.

Be careful in dealing with Project Utopia. Though some members, including Dr Troll, are interested in either science and/or helping Novas, the organization as a whole has a political agenda that I only can consider fascist.

As others have said, if there is anything I can do to assist you, please let me know.

[Machina]

Oh, fucking awesome. Another representative of history's 'D' students come around to denounce the evils of the white man and his gift of blankets. Wouldn't it be nice if those goddamned palefaces would just leave you the fuck alone and allow you to join the Teragen and form a cult of personality around yourself in peace? Or, hey, you know what'd be nicer? If the dumbfuck crackers who settled this land in the first place had butchered or bred you jackasses out of existence like every sensible conquering people before them had done.

My own tremendous amusement at your situation aside, what the fuck makes you think that a)the Project would treat anyone in your situation who didn't want to play ball differently or b)that - being a zip up until recently - you know a goddamned thing about how taint operates? I'm not advocating for the Project, Pokahotass: I can't stand the fuckers, but for reasons that have probably never even crossed your tiny little mind. Fact is, though, they are doing what they do best, and no amount of plaintive whining on an Op forum is going to change that. So rope in the sob story, for fuck's sake. I'm afraid that most of us simply won't be able to relate to your woeful tale of disgust and undeserved arrogance; when masturbating, most of us prefer a good skin mag, instead.

[Velvet]

Welcome to the boards, Esther. Hopefully you can find the assistance here that you seem to need.

In his own, adorable way, Machina has actually made a pretty decent point or twelve. Are they (Utopia) the ones making it an issue of race, or are you? (Sorry, but since you're making thinly veiled racist comments, I thought I'd get some clarification before I went off on a tangent.) How did you learn so much about this "taint" and your abilities through just a standard education?

You must be pretty unique, or they wouldn't be trying to recruit you, especially if your abilities could be used to help people suffering from the effects of quantum backlashes and such. I can respect that you have your pride, but bear in mind... Utopia's not the only group that'd love to get its hands on you, if you can do what you say you can, and some of the others would just as happily use claws. I just hope you're not refusing to help people when you could've done so.

As far as what you can do to stop them... If they're bothering you, posting here won't help. Block their op-mails, file a lawsuit, do whatever you need to do.

Oh, and Leliel? I have friends who work with Utopia, and friends who work with the Teragen. I don't work for either side, and even I can tell that your claims of "fascism" are getting pretty tiresome. Please, stop dropping little snippets here and there in everyone else's discussions, and just start a rant thread of your own.

[Machina]

Wow, Tits, I didn't know you spoke Asshole. I have to assume you picked it up from Revenant, huh? Hey, is that something you can just teach other people, or is it contracted sexually?

[Velvet]

Oh, he's definitely given me an education, DX. Between the two of you, I have no problem translating whatsoever.

The way I see it, you two are abrasive, but you're also unflinchingly honest and I respect that a lot. I can either let your attitudes grind me down to nothing, or use them to keep me sharp, and I prefer the latter.

[Titan A9F]

Quote:

Originally posted by Esther Bluecorn:
Disgusting, isn't it?

Not the word I'd use. something about this doesn't sound right. When I deal with the project and its folks its nothing like what you're talking about.

Here's something you might want to think about though. Knowing what you know now, what do you really think about that healing ceremony you were at? No offense but if you understand what you're dealing with now, that ceremony has got to look a little like trying to turn a rock into a chicken by yelling at it. Now think about the fact that nobody has studied novas and nova phenomena like the project has. Think about the people in the project having studied this for almost 20 years with some pretty amazing stuff coming out of that. Things like a cure for what use to be called the black plague of the twentieth century. Patching a hole in the ozone. New technolgies that are making life pretty nice for folks that would never have had a chance otherwise.

With what you know now, if you can look back at how you felt when the ceremony was just starting and be honest then maybe its not too unreasonable to give the project the benefit of the doubt.

And good luck. Being a nova can be pretty interesting but it can be scary too. If you let it go to your head.

[Emily Williamson]

You've got a pretty big ego, you know that? To think the Project's treating you special just because you're part of a minority, poor you. You think they don't spam white people just as much? You're lucky you got that lawsuit threat through, or you'd probably have recruiters knocking at your door every other day. They're persistant, they're bloody annoying and they want everything done their way because they're narrow-minded and arrogant enough to think it's the only good way, but the one thing I'm pretty sure they are not is racist.

Bitch about them all you want, hell, nobody's going to notice a bit more bitching around here, talk about spitting in the ocean, but don't expect people to pity you or even take you seriously. Want to hate Utopia? Do it for a good reason, like how they want anyone suffering from Taint quietly locked up until they can find some way to make them nice little clean novas, or how they work oh-so-hard to destroy the reputation of any other nova organization so they never have any real competition.

Oh, and Leliel, "fascist" is so old-fashioned, not to mention innacurate. You Terats really need to get hold of a new "naughty word" for the Project.

[Machina]

Aw, Emmy, don't be so hard on the twelfth angel. Maybe the Teragen just never got the memo about Godwin's Law and don't know how fucking stupid they sound calling the Project "fascist". As if any of them are even old enough to remember what the fuck that word means.

I've got to say, though, my opalescant darling, you raise still another good point. Calling the Project "racist" is akin to another violation of Godwinnian logic. We're talking about a group that terraformed a country that was a third-world sub-Saharan shithole until they came along, and that aside, they've saved millions of lives, whether by providing aid or relief or by actually saving people from catastrophe. To point fingers at them over being patronizing towards all the little brown people of the world is the conversational equivalent of pulling down your pants to show everyone what a tiny intellectual dick you've really got. There are plenty of good reasons to hate the Project, and you, sweetheart, have pointed out a few, but racism ain't one of them. I'm frankly surprised Jennie Redcorn's little scare tactic worked on the PU spooks at all.

[Sam 'The Crusader' Hill]

Miss Bluecorn,

I think you may have the wrong idea. Project Utopia is the stalwart defender of mere mortal and magnificent marvel alike, a proud team dedicated to truth, justice, and the democratic way.

Now, I'm sure that they, as do I, have nothing but respect for your people, the noble savages of the great western plains, and your feathered and tee-peed culture. Why, in my time as a member of this band of beneficent brothers, I've worked with novas of every sort, and all have been treated with the honor and dignity that a fellow superhero deserves.

As for taint... well, that's quite a can of worms there. And those particular worms are all too often funny colors and have two heads and tentacles. Taint's a nasty beast, but by golly, slaying it is one of the highest goals that the Project has set. They have top men working on it round the clock, 365 days a year (plus leap-years!), trying to help our brothers and sisters lose those unfortunate third limbs and radioactive auras and the like, so that they can become productive citizens once more. Now, if you can help with that, shouldn't you see if they have room for a top woman on that team, too?

As for the Teragen... well, that's another funny thing. There's a lot of vile villains in that particular corner of the nova cafe, and they're drinking a really nasty brew. But I've known one that turned from those burned and brewed beans of badness, and has partaken of the pure waters of righteousness. I speak, of course, of my good friend Turbo; a more valiant Windy City Knight may not be found. And last I knew, he still was a Teragener, too... so I guess that they aren't all bad.

I hope that you'll help us to build a brighter tomorrow, Miss Bluecorn!

Super-sincerely,

Samuel "The Crusader" Hill

A proud member of Team Tomorrow and the Windy City Knights

[Matryoshka]

You know I though of writing a long, and harsh post about how this child is so wrong, then it dawned on me. She is so biased she probably thinks Christianity was made by Europeans, and that slavery and war was made by the pale skins.

[Leliel]

Quote:

Originally posted by Machina:
Aw, Emmy, don't be so hard on the twelfth angel. Maybe the Teragen just never got the memo about Godwin's Law and don't know how fucking stupid they sound calling the Project "fascist". As if any of them are even old enough to remember what the fuck that word means.

I've got to say, though, my opalescant darling, you raise still another good point. Calling the Project "racist" is akin to another violation of Godwinnian logic. We're talking about a group that terraformed a country that was a third-world sub-Saharan shithole until they came along, and that aside, they've saved millions of lives, whether by providing aid or relief or by actually saving people from catastrophe. To point fingers at them over being patronizing towards all the little brown people of the world is the conversational equivalent of pulling down your pants to show everyone what a tiny intellectual dick you've really got. There are plenty of good reasons to hate the Project, and you, sweetheart, have pointed out a few, but racism ain't one of them. I'm frankly surprised Jennie Redcorn's little scare tactic worked on the PU spooks at all.

I know exactly what fascism was, and though I will admit it is getting kind of cliche to use the term with respect to Utopia, it's a lot shorter then "Holier then thou fucking bastards who want to enslave the One Race and turn the world into some kind of fucking paradise for zips....etc etc"

If there is racism in the Project, it applies to Novas as a whole. So you have a point in that they don't really give a fuck about the color of your skin.

You also raise the good point of that normally the bastards aren't put of by shysters, unless they are coming from someone like DeVries who has some sort of clout.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Am I the only one who sees the larger issue here? Ms. Bluecorn has powers that could lead to a cure for taint, and/or effective treatment(s) for taint. Talk about a world changing gift.

[Leliel]

Certainly not Doctor. Leaving all political crap aside, from a purely scientific viewpoint her case and powers certainly require further investigation, and show great promise.

The key word though is purely scientific. If the researchers had a political agenda, it would complicate things in my opinion.

And by poltical agenda I refer to anything beyond "dealing with extreme levels of taint". Of course as i have mentioned, to Terats what most call "taint" is merely a process of evolution in a sense, so one could rightfully say that my definition of "extreme" likely differs from that of many people.

Nethertheless, the lady's talents do indeed have great potential for the One Race.

[Titan A9F]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Am I the only one who sees the larger issue here?

I guess you are.

[Neil Preston]

Hello Ms. Bluecorn, its glad to hear from another healer and nova. I would be happy to meet with you and discuss the various interactions between the biological, quantum, and our individual Quantum Expressions. I am sure you have some unique insights.

My only caution is to your friend. Joining the Teragen out of a fear/misunderstanding of taint and hoping to be handed the cure/answer is like joining a Church to sing in the choir. Its definitely acting in spite of the greater purpose.

I am neither Utopian, nor Teragen. I prefer to seek out my own understandings and to be my own final arbitrator of my actions. Maybe one day I'll have learned enough so that I can make a stand with one or the other with a clear and absolute understanding of what it means to me. Until then, I make my own way (with the love of my life, Nova Madigan) and am perfectly happy.

[Trooper]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Am I the only one who sees the larger issue here? Ms. Bluecorn has powers that could lead to a cure for taint, and/or effective treatment(s) for taint. Talk about a world changing gift.

You know Doctor, I think you're right. I'd be happy to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge at a steep discount so you could use it to finance the mission to cure taint using Blueberry's miracle indian magic.

[Satyr]

Utopia thinks that they are the preimment faction based around the concept of meddling in the affairs of others... and they are correct.

Bear in mind they are follow extremely closely behind by the Terats in that category, the "one race" is almost too close to call at times.

Make your own reasoned desison on where you go from here, perhaps we could talk about it over dinner or something of that nature.

[Esther Bluecorn]

I appear to have started something of an argument here, so I will update you.

I got the tribal lawyers to contact the Project about the harassment and I was told earlier today that it was 'an overzealous employee who has been officially reprimanded and transferred'. Given that our very own T2M'er Danny 'Rumble' Shadowmoon delivered the news to the tribal elders Utopia's backing off, I can only assume that wiser heads amongst them prevailed.

Don't get me wrong. I admire the Project for its work on the environment and human rights, and have worked with them in the capacity of a tribal elder for the past four years. What I disliked was the heavy-handed assumption that because I erupted during a traditional ceremony and apparently possess rare quantum abilities, I was in need of immediate study and guidance.

If I had been allowed to rest and recuperate on my own, I might have felt more charitable towards the Project. But I was speaking from anger and resentment, and a long history of being looked down upon for being a Native American woman.

As for the use of a healing ceremony to try and bring my friend some relief, he had tried just about everything else. I know that many scientists look down upon tribal medicine, but many studies have proven that the power of belief can work wonders. We were trying to help him heal himself.

I am personally not interested in joining the Project, nor do I have any particular desire to be with the Teragen. I have responsibilities to my people, and I think a representative of the Navajo in each faction is more than enough.

[Ares]

On a general note, I much prefer to combat novas who refuse contact with Rashoud facility training. Five of my seven confirmed kills came from those who were too special/afraid/or Divine to go with Project Utopia.

Bluecorn, welcome to the world of novas. Good luck with your taint stuff. I'm just fine with mine.

[Warren Verona]

Anyone remember that old movie, X-Men 3? Ya know the comic one where there was this mutant who could make all the mutants go away and take away thier uglieness? It was about 12 years ago, look it up.

Well, those that remember it should remember what happened when 'The Man' got his hands on that kinda power.

I say ghost this bitch before anyone has a chance to get their hands on her.

Oh, welcome to the boards.

[Chaos]

X-men 3?

Yeah I remember it.

It had the lowest box office gross of any flick made in the 21st century. Right behind the animated story of a sentient sea sponge and his gay starfish pal Patrick. All the nova stuff going on all over the world and some schmuck named Ratner decides he's going to do a "pure" supers movie. Oh yeah. What a brilliant idea that turned out to be. Probably would have been more effective to just flush the money down the toilet.

What was your point again?

Anyway... Esther... Can I call you Esther? Do yourself a favor and just get a grip. If you really are the secret cure for the nova plague of the 21st Century then you're not going to be around long enough to get to know.

That chip on your shoulder is the least of your worries.

[Esther Bluecorn]

Secret cure?

I do not 'cure' Taint. I take away the aberrations for a little while and change them on myself so I avoid the mental issues. I gain neither Taint nor do I remove it, merely the effects.

My abilities appear to be the equivalent of a band-aid or temporary pain relief instead of a true cure.

[Chaos]

This is what you got from eruption? Talk about getting screwed without a kiss.

I feel for you Esther. At least you won't have to worry about the project for long. They'll figure it out and then probably drop the hard sell routine. I can see celebrities in your future though. Money and lots of it. The gravy train is coming to your town.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Esther Bluecorn:My abilities appear to be the equivalent of a band-aid or temporary pain relief instead of a true cure.

Exactly.

Not only is what you do MUCH better than what we at Utopia taint research can do, but it’s much better than what we expect to be able to do for the next 20 years.

[Timeslip]

That is a very interesting set of talents you have acquired, Ester. Very interesting.

[Chaos]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
[qb]Not only is what you do MUCH better than what we at Utopia taint research can do, but it’s much better than what we expect to be able to do for the next 20 years. [/qb]

No kidding? So you guys are just as much in the dark as everybody else. Well Devries is suppose to have a crack team working on this. Maybe I'll go check their stuff out. If I ever decide to grow pink feathers.

I got to tell you I'm a little surprised, pleasantly surprised, one of you brighter tomorrow folks would be this upfront about it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
[qb] That is a very interesting set of talents you have acquired, Ester. Very interesting. [/qb]

Yeah? I'm still thinking Esther of the blue corn got herself royally boned in the eruption lottery. Why don't you explain it to me.

Making anything out of nothing whether its rain drops into emeralds or molding trees into cars is very interesting. Release of primal forces into form and shape and all that. This is just jacking quantum siggies around. Don't sound that impressive to me.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Chaos:[qb]No kidding? So you guys are just as much in the dark as everybody else. Well Devries is suppose to have a crack team working on this. Maybe I'll go check their stuff out. If I ever decide to grow pink feathers.[/qb]

If DeVries had been better at this then I would have stayed with DeVries.

Not being equal to a nova isn't the same as total ignorance. We know things, we are even working on drugs that should help suppress taint related behavioral aberrations.

But if we could do a tenth of what she can do then we’d have already collected a handful of Nobel Prizes in Medicine and a goodly number of novas wouldn’t be suffering anywhere near as much as they are.

With little effort I can foresee a day when suicide because of taint issues becomes a serious societal issue (we’ve already had a handful of incidents). We aren’t at that point yet, and I very much intend to work to avoid that day, but left unaddressed, it could happen.

[Esther Bluecorn]

It's not all bad, I assure you, Chaos.

The least of my attributes is at the baseline peak and my artistic abilities have gone quite beyond that. I can complete the simplest of tasks in seconds and even the most complex sand-painting only takes about half an hour at the most. I can drum and chant for hours on end, go without sleep for a couple of days when necessary and calm down the most emotional crowd. While I didn't crack mirrors before my eruption, I have become the most photographed Navajo woman this year, and received three marriage proposals from other clan elders.

It may not be Amp Wells in Ibiza, but it's good.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

[qb]If DeVries had been better at this then I would have stayed with DeVries.[/qb]

You left DV years ago. How would you know? Now maybe they got a better treatment for taint and maybe they don't. One thing is for sure; they have a better track record for treating their novas.

Originally Posted By: Esther Bluecorn

[qb]It's not all bad, I assure you, Chaos.

[/qb]If you're happy with it then I'm happy for you. For a bit it sounded like all you could do was the quantum bactine stuff that got little Miss T-rat all hot and bothered. That would have blown big time. I'm glad you actually got something out of the deal besides the taint bandaid thing.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Originally Posted By: Chaos

You left DV years ago. How would you know? Now maybe they got a better treatment for taint and maybe they don't.

How many papers have they published? Either they aren’t doing the kind of work that could lead to a cure (which isn’t a shock considering how expensive it is, there’re reasons why drug companies charge so much)… or they are keeping their research to themselves (which would be surreally unethical and counter productive in this field).

My impression is the bulk of their research is more on ending nova life, not prolonging it. And it’s counter intuitive but no company is going to make money off a drug that treats taint. There’s only a few thousand novas, most of whom don’t need it right now, and researching this kind of thing costs Billions of dollars (that’s Billions with a “B”). I could increase my income by 10x or so if I went into private industry and focused on making drugs for baselines… but then I couldn’t do the kind of research I want.

Originally Posted By: Chaos

One thing is for sure; they have a better track record for treating their novas.

(Rolling on the ground laughing) Oh, you are funny. Ignore for the moment the physiological effects of killing for a living (war is hell and all that).

How many novas have died working for Utopia? Slag, Warlady, some others. It’s BIG news when it happens with BIG announcements and recriminations.

Now, how many novas do you have to kill to be the #100 elite? It’s at least 6 now, isn’t it? The basic math says that a couple of thousand novas or so have died, just to fill out the ranks. DeVries is the largest supplier of elites. As a percentage they do a little better than the other teams. But as the largest supplier of elites their body count is high enough that it *isn’t* big news when one or more of them dies, and die they do.

By far the number one reason for nova death is the elite phenomena.

[Sandcaster]

You can really do this, Ester? I know it's temporary, but how long does it last when you do it? And are you willing to accept clients at this time?

[The White Rat]

The removal of Taint, is something that I see as anathema to what we represent as Terats, and in particular the Harvesters. However, I understand that there are some, who through no fault of their own, have certain abilities that do remove what makes us different from the zips.

As a fellow Nova, I hold no ill will towards you. In fact, a power like yours has a certain appeal to me. While I embrace the changes brought on by Taint, some of the more extreme mental issues can be more trouble than they are worth.

[Chaos]

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

(Rolling on the ground laughing)

War is hell to quote a tired phrase but from it comes some useful stuff. It sucks to be the one defending DV but okay. They have better burn treatments because their elites got burned and no one had a way to treat somebody that could get nailed with those temperatures and still live. They have better equipment in the field made to be used by novas and not shelved because its not something Johnney Baseline could use.

Their fertility clinic has successes. Devries 1, Utopia 0. God but that's got to really piss some people off. Oh I'm sure the mighty PU is just about to crack the code any day now and we'll all reap the benefits.

My ass.

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

How many novas have died working for Utopia? Slag, Warlady, some others. It’s BIG news when it happens with BIG announcements and recriminations.

Oh bullshit.

Now comes the unpleasant part of the conversation where I have to ask you if you're really this stupid. Seriously. Are you really this stupid or is this one of those things where you have to take a supportive stand for the Project regardless of the facts. Just give me a wink and I'll drop it. There's no reason to have a conversation if you're stuck supporting a policy statement.

[z-Silvestru]

Originally Posted By: Esther Bluecorn

The least of my attributes is at the baseline peak and my artistic abilities have gone quite beyond that. I can complete the simplest of tasks in seconds and even the most complex sand-painting only takes about half an hour at the most. I can drum and chant for hours on end, go without sleep for a couple of days when necessary and calm down the most emotional crowd. While I didn't crack mirrors before my eruption, I have become the most photographed Navajo woman this year, and received three marriage proposals from other clan elders.

Esther, welcome to the boards. I look forward to meeting you in person someday.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Esther, my apologies for this diversion, but some things just need to be said.

Originally Posted By: Chaos

They have better burn treatments because their elites got burned and no one had a way to treat somebody that could get nailed with those temperatures and still live.

Very correct. If a Utopian were burned that badly we wouldn’t bother developing a treatment, we’d just use a Nova healer (like me). DeVries found it easier (read: Cheaper) to develop a treatment rather than pay someone like Totentanz to heal. It’s much more profitable to have him out in the field.

Originally Posted By: Chaos

They have better equipment in the field made to be used by novas and not shelved because its not something Johnney Baseline could use.

Again correct. DeVries is well known for their gear, and even more for what they use that gear to do. For example they invented the widely used “murder cord”. Utopia would (and does) use a material with strengths that high to build bridges. Of course other groups copy their (and our) technologies… leading to more bridges on our part and more dead novas on theirs.

Originally Posted By: Chaos

Their fertility clinic has successes. Devries 1, Utopia 0. God but that's got to really piss some people off. Oh I'm sure the mighty PU is just about to crack the code any day now and we'll all reap the benefits.

Sarcasm aside, that’s one of the big differences. If we had “cracked the code” then we would share it. The funny thing is that since DeVries isn’t running around with lots of advertisements charging for their solution… I have to wonder how wide spread their solution actually is? Did they cure everyone? Or just Anna DeVries and a few other test cases?

And here’s another thought while we’re at it, if Anna hadn’t been sterile, would DeVries have bothered to create a clinic? I’m not a precog but I do have a prediction, DeVries will get seriously into taint research shortly after Anna gets her first aberration.

Originally Posted By: Chaos

Originally Posted By: David 'Dr. Troll' Smith

How many novas have died working for Utopia? Slag, Warlady, some others. It’s BIG news when it happens with BIG announcements and recriminations.

Oh bullshit.

Now comes the unpleasant part of the conversation where I have to ask you if you're really this stupid. Seriously. Are you really this stupid or is this one of those things where you have to take a supportive stand for the Project regardless of the facts. Just give me a wink and I'll drop it. There's no reason to have a conversation if you're stuck supporting a policy statement.

I’d respond to your argument… but striped of the insults you didn’t make one. You mentioned “the facts” but didn’t bother to mention any. My skin is thick and (more importantly) my message is correct.

When a Utopian dies it’s big news and state funeral time. Remember Slag’s? Slider’s? Warlady’s? Although, granted, those are all T2M. Lesser known novas, like my father in law, The Paragon, get smaller funerals, but they are still tragedies.

When an elite dies it’s just part of the business. Not even news. Somebody gets another notch and the rankings change. It’s happened last week, it happened yesterday, and it will happen tomorrow. If you need to kill 5 novas to make it to the top 100, then everyone already there killed at least that many. Think about it. Think about how many novas needed to die to make those numbers. Think about how many had to die just to put the top 10 where they are.

That’s the Elite phenomena at work, idiots cheer them on, and fools then get to claim because their every death isn’t in the newspaper and ours are, ours are worse and larger. In the words of Joseph Stalin, “A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic.” (http://www.quotedb.com/quotes/3356)

[Chaos]

* Actually the most profitable thing would be to have a nova healer do their mojo on the burned and the waive company PR time. Point goes to Chaos.

* Nice try to link what they use the gear for and try to slide in a point but you still didn't make the argument. No point to either side.

* Devries has success in nova fertility. Utopia has none. That's the heart of it. Everything else is you trying to step around that. Point to Chaos.

* Funny how many of your novas disappear without a state funeral. Just a letter to mom. Point to Chaos.

So you really aren't stupid but you are committed Utopia. Its cool Ese. I don't much care for either group. But if you have something that needs saying stop beating around the bush and say it. Alluding to something doesn't count.

Speaking of saying thing, I said Devries has a better track record of taking care of their novas. You say its all about the holy bottom line and they only do what makes the big money. I say no shit sherlock but (nova healer) that's a policy not a religion. So far you're failing to make an argument.