opnet [OpNet] All to human nature

[Dreamer]

We strive to be unique and one of a kind. We strive to give ourselves names that set us a part from others.We try to say we are one of a kind. We try to say we are not like those who came before us. We try to say this time it is diffrent. We say we no longer are human. Yet all our actions seem more human than not. We are all too human.

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

Unless you have a baseline in your pocket, don't say "we."

[Access]

I agree, who is the second member of this we you speak of? Last time I checked, I had my own opinions so I know you're not grouping all the Novas together.

[Neil Preston]

Dreamer, novas are each one of a kind.

Novas are not human.

While the actions of novas very often mimic human actions and emotions, that can hardly be surprising, seeing that this is the culture we currently exist in, and have evolved from.

The current state of affairs is not likely to last. We are different, and that is the way it is.

[Tekk One]

Speak for self there Dreamer, I have no doubt in my mind that I'm not human, and I like just like that!

[Timeslip]

Interesting philosophy, Dreamer. Please feel free to continue to wallow in it, but don't expect me to descend into the muck with you.

[Jager]

Dreamer, when was the last time you thought you were human? Seriously, if a baseline acted like you do, it would be grounds to have them committed.

[Ultimax]

Wow. Crazy kind of talk here. Crazy.

[Dr. 'Mutagen' Okazaki]

And beautifully incorrect, as well, the error is so grand it astounds me. To find similarity in the behavior of two different species, and based solely on that fact, proclaim those two distinct species to be one and the same? It's so ridiculous it's a study in fallacy. And that's not even getting into the pretentious use of "we".

I'm glad no others in this community seem to agree with him, it says a lot for the average intellect around here.

[Ghostwriter]

*sigh*

Dreamer has returned.

The average IQ of this place is going to drop several hundred points by her being here.

Really negative numbers do that.

[Lee Jones]

I think Neil Preston summed up my position. Individuals are different and similar to each other. 'Novas' are similar and different to 'Baselines'. These things are what make life interesting.

I'm going to try to stay away from any species talk.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Preston:
Dreamer, novas are each one of a kind.
Novas are not human.
While the actions of novas very often mimic human actions and emotions, that can hardly be surprising, seeing that this is the culture we currently exist in, and have evolved from.
The current state of affairs is not likely to last. We are different, and that is the way it is.

Show me proof we are not. Our blood is the same.Our DNA is the same. Our children are the same.

There are at least 500 cases of novas who had children before eruption and said children are not novas. The age range of these children vary from 20 to 50 years of age. In 8 of cases both those children would later become novas.

So you tell me, how are we not human?Is it our powers? If so then whatever thing made us made as joke. As it stands now we are far more likely to not have nova children than we are.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Dreamer, when was the last time you thought you were human? Seriously, if a baseline acted like you do, it would be grounds to have them committed.

You really think so? Committed you say? For what rants and raving on a message board? For not hiding what I am? So do tell me what have I done that I should be committed for?

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. 'Mutagen' Okazaki:
And beautifully incorrect, as well, the error is so grand it astounds me. To find similarity in the behavior of two different species, and based solely on that fact, proclaim those two distinct species to be one and the same? It's so ridiculous it's a study in fallacy. And that's not even getting into the pretentious use of "we".

I'm glad no others in this community seem to agree with him, it says a lot for the average intellect around here.

Yes, it does say a lot of the intellect here. For starters I am female. For another name one set of two different species that can bread and have offspring that are not hybrids.

You see the abilities we have and say we are no longer human.I see the abilities we have and then look at the other factors of what makes one human. To call us not human opens the door to say those who have mental or physical disorders not human. Or do you think that only "good" differences separate us from humans?

[Mithril]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
Show me proof we are not. Our blood is the same.Our DNA is the same. Our children are the same.

So you tell me, how are we not human?

I no longer have blood, DNA, organs of any kind, the need to eat, sleep, or even breathe. I'm pretty sure I can no longer have children.

You were saying?

[Ptesan-Wi]

I do not pretend to know exactly what we are, but I have a fair idea of what we are not, and the latter includes "human".

[Dr. 'Mutagen' Okazaki]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
Yes, it does say a lot of the intellect here. For starters I am female. For another name one set of two different species that can bread and have offspring that are not hybrids.

You see the abilities we have and say we are no longer human.I see the abilities we have and then look at the other factors of what makes one human. To call us not human opens the door to say those who have mental or physical disorders not human. Or do you think that only "good" differences separate us from humans?

Your sex is, for the current discussion, irrelevant, and I could hardly be expected to know it. And I'd love to see your data on fertile offspring of novas and baselines, even though the interbreeding definition of "species" falls a bit short when dealing with beings that are so diverse and go against so many rules of classic biology.

It is a simple physical distinction that sets novas apart, they have a completely new and different organ that provides them with a completely new and different ability. In fact, to use your argument against you, if behavior and emotion and all those things you bring up that you say we have similar to humans (which is, in many cases, correct, we share human behavior patterns), we would have to say that those with mental disorders that do not think, feel or behave like humans do, are not human. They are, obviously, that is undisputed. By the same logic, however, just because novas behave in some ways like humans does not mean they are members of the same species.

And, another thing, wherever did you get the idea that baselines and novas have the same DNA? Novas and latents do, yes, but latency is a special case that defies many of the standing biological classifications.

[Wakinyan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Girl Made of Titanium:
I'm pretty sure I can no longer have children.

You were saying?

I wonder if you can have one through mitosis.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Wow Dreamer, you're as dumb as cheese.

[Tekk One]

Seems to me Dreamer that you care more for being human than accepting the fact that your a Nova. Is this why you are trying to relate to being human?

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr. 'Mutagen' Okazaki:

And, another thing, wherever did you get the idea that baselines and novas have the same DNA? Novas and latents do, yes, but latency is a special case that defies many of the standing biological classifications.

My DNA is the same as it was in 2015 as it was in 2005 as it was in 1995 and even in 1985.

[Mithril]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:

Quote:

Originally posted by Girl Made of Titanium:
I'm pretty sure I can no longer have children.

You were saying?

I wonder if you can have one through mitosis.

What, you mean splitting in half like a cell does? That would be so weird.

[Emily Williamson]

As much enemies as her ideas are making, there is a core of truth to what Dreamer is saying. Novas may have powers humans could never dream of having, but what determined those powers were human hopes, dreams and insecurities, and those are still with us, except in the strangest of cases. We still interact with each other and with humans in decidedly human ways, at most with some extra abilities, but the core of our being, the way we think and feel, remains unchanged. Whether or not this is proper criteria to make a biological distinction... I don't know and don't care. But we're close enough to human to remember being human and have perfectly normal relations with them, in most cases, so distancing ourselves as much as some of us do simply for the sake of appearing or believing ourselves radically different can't be too wise. After all, our history, our society and our civilization are of human origin and dominated by humans still.

[Velvet]

I'm going to catch a lot of flack for saying this, but at least to some extent, I agree with what Dreamer (and now Emily) are saying. People on the boards tend to use the word "human" as an insult or obscenity the way baselines call each other "cro-magnon" or "neanderthals." Frankly, I think that's ignorant from both a psychological standpoint and a historical one, and I don't have to be a professor of either to see it. We were *all* baselines at some point, and because of a freak accident we're now novas.

You can talk about DNA, mutations, species and reproduction until the stars burn out (and some of us are probably capable of doing just that), but that doesn't define "humanity." As far as I'm concerned, being "human" isn't about what color you are, who your parents were, or who (or what) your offspring might be. It's got nothing to do with genetics- I've seen baseline monsters just as frequently as I have nova ones, and I have to wonder if some novas aren't a little afraid to consider how tenuous the distinction really is. What makes us any different from them, except what we each, as individuals, can do? There are baseline composers that can make me weep with the right violin solo just as surely as there are novas who can set land speed records, with neither being able to do the other even adequately.

Sure, some of us are more "alien" than others, but the same could be said of baselines. You could also argue, I suppose, that novas who have completely succumbed to their feral, primal instincts are essentially animals... but that's another topic.

I don't apologize if this offends any of you, because it's my opinion. (Conversely, nothing you say about it is going to offend me, but I reserve the right to disagree.) I like being both a "human" and a nova, and the fact that it grounds me, centers me in reality and keeps me from trying to start a cult in my own name or something equally (in my opinion) ridiculous. That's the same egotistical, self-serving B.S. a lot of us ridicule baselines for. But, there you go... Another unfortunate "human" trait.

[z-Gu Saori]

I want to respectfully say that I am indeed a human. I cannot express myself as well as Ms. Velvet, so will merely say that I agree with her.

[Juri 'Salamander' McClendon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Velvet:
We were *all* baselines at some point, and because of a freak accident we're now novas.

Ahem. I didn't erupt due to some freak accident, thank you very much. I erupted because I chose to.

[GDP_ST]

I would have to say that I differentiate the terms "human" and "baseline".

Humans are our common ancestor, capable of thought, creation, higher philosophy, and great achievements.

Baselines are those Homo Sapiens who are petty, greedy, vain and destructive to everything around them including themselves.

The infuriating thing to me is that sometimes they are the same person

[Velvet]

Quote:

Originally posted by Juri 'Salamander' McClendon:
Ahem. I didn't erupt due to some freak accident, thank you very much. I erupted because I chose to.

You were a Nova before N-Day? If so, are you typing this from a sterile environment in a research facility where you've been imprisoned since before the satellite blew? Because that, Ms. McClendon, is the "freak accident" to which I was referring.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
We strive to be unique and one of a kind. We strive to give ourselves names that set us a part from others.We try to say we are one of a kind. We try to say we are not like those who came before us. We try to say this time it is diffrent. We say we no longer are human. Yet all our actions seem more human than not. We are all too human.

It would seem our behavior would make us still stuck to the paradigm that was set by our ancestors and families. Unfortunately in a Human world we cannot stay. The fact of the matter is, we're olympic swimmers in the kiddie pool. Eventually, we must leave the place we have outgrown and find a new place to call home. Our home. Untill we can marshall ourselves to such an endeavor we will be here. In our cribs. An extinction level event waiting to happen for Humanity. From what I have seen recently, we pose more of a threat to Humanity than they to us. We have to recognize that and, eventually, accept our fates that we are no longer destined for Earth.

I try to play nice with Humanity, hell, I give them quite a number of things. I am the definition of the "benevolent god" that some would believe me to be. Yet I have shown I am no more able to fill that role than any other. So, instead I look at it as trying to not cause any damage while I am still on Earth with Humanity around me.

I have accepted the fact that one day my gifts will evict me from the birthplace of Humanity. I accept the fact that my home eventually, where my offspring shall be raised, will not be Earth.

Yes, I am of the Nova race. What some would dub the One Race. But I feel that if we are supposed to be one race, we are still divided in purpose. I know my destiny, yet I am unable to yet figure out if anyone will come along and create a society of peers, and not a society molded not to harm our Human neighbors.

That is my concern. It is my hope that we will find the right path.

[Fracture]

Quote:

Originally posted by Velvet:
You were a Nova before N-Day? If so, are you typing this from a sterile environment in a research facility where you've been imprisoned since before the satellite blew? Because that, Ms. McClendon, is the "freak accident" to which I was referring.

If you honestly believe the Galatea explosion was responsible for novakind being on the planet, you're being more naive than you should. Novas are continuing to erupt even though the radiation from that explosion has long since ceased to be present, at least in a quantity that would trigger any biological mutation or change.

And conversely, novas did exist prior to N-Day.

[Ultimax]

Okay, I guess this is the kind of thing you guys talk about here. That's cool. So I'll join in and throw down with my two cents.

I was born in 1990. When I was eight years old the world changed. The comics I used to read became real life. I started getting older and the world changed.

Novas cleaned up the air and oceans. My folks tell me how bad it used to be, how disgusting it was. I don't remember it but they do and they thank God every day.

Novas cleaned up crime. Well, at least in my country. Utopia yanked in all the really bad guys. They're back I guess, but it was still impressive when it happened.

Novas saved Russia. Place was bankrupt and got pulled from the brink by one guy.

Novas took over war. It seemed to me like the only wars fought anymore were being fought by novas. Yeah, the big nations didn't use them, but they weren't fighting either.

Novas took over music. Hell, they have their own type of music named after them.

Novas took over computers. Remember the Internet? Neither do I. But apparently it was hot shit until some nova came along.

Novas took over the movies. You know, Bollywood used to be a joke according to a film-student I knew way back when. They only did super cheezy musical things. Not anymore.

Novas took over science. Duh.

So I grow up seeing all these leaps and bounds and revolutions in style or what have you being done by novas. And not a hell of a lot being done by human beings. Not much that's celebrated anyway.

So, I grew up not wanting to be human. Being human meant being second-class. History. Being part of the group that received and watched.

No thank you.

[Velvet]

Quote:

Originally posted by Fracture:
Blah, blah, blah.

You're welcome to call me whatever you like, argue semantics and answer for someone else, and it's not going to change my life in the least that someone on a message board is looking to start a fight with someone they don't know.

[Fracture]

Quote:

Originally posted by Velvet:
Denial Denial Denial.

It's all about the mathematics and the science of situation. But fair enough, I'll drop it.

[Velvet]

It's not "dropping" the matter if you feel the need to have the last word, doll. If you want to go on about the "mathematics and the science" of the situation, by all means, enlighten all of us with your genius. I'm not just going to take your word on it.

[Hugin]

Velvet, there is evidence, very convincing evidence that Novas existed prior to the Galatea Explosion. It would not be my place to name names but despite the fact that the Galatea has been the commonly accepted origin for our species that is not correct.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ultimax:
Okay, I guess this is the kind of thing you guys talk about here. That's cool. So I'll join in and throw down with my two cents.

I was born in 1990. When I was eight years old the world changed. The comics I used to read became real life. I started getting older and the world changed.

Novas cleaned up the air and oceans. My folks tell me how bad it used to be, how disgusting it was. I don't remember it but they do and they thank God every day.

Novas cleaned up crime. Well, at least in my country. Utopia yanked in all the really bad guys. They're back I guess, but it was still impressive when it happened.

Novas saved Russia. Place was bankrupt and got pulled from the brink by one guy.

Novas took over war. It seemed to me like the only wars fought anymore were being fought by novas. Yeah, the big nations didn't use them, but they weren't fighting either.

Novas took over music. Hell, they have their own type of music named after them.

Novas took over computers. Remember the Internet? Neither do I. But apparently it was hot shit until some nova came along.

Novas took over the movies. You know, Bollywood used to be a joke according to a film-student I knew way back when. They only did super cheezy musical things. Not anymore.

Novas took over science. Duh.

So I grow up seeing all these leaps and bounds and revolutions in style or what have you being done by novas. And not a hell of a lot being done by human beings. Not much that's celebrated anyway.

So, I grew up not wanting to be human. Being human meant being second-class. History. Being part of the group that received and watched.

No thank you.

Yes, we have given all that to humanity, and we enjoy some of those spoils, but where is our quid-pro-quo? Where is our balance? I don't think Novas dying for human conflicts is a good thing, neither is us taking over the OpNet. We have also taken away things by your recollection. Us taking over movies, music, and all other creative outlets from Humanity only stifled their growth.

If we are to ask Huanity to allow us the freedom to express our natures and grow as a race, we must afford Humanity the same right.

[Soames]

What the hell are you people talking about? Novas got a chunk in the head. I got one. It don't mean nothing you don't want it to mean.

[Fracture]

Quote:

Originally posted by Velvet:
It's not "dropping" the matter if you feel the need to have the last word, doll. If you want to go on about the "mathematics and the science" of the situation, by all means, enlighten all of us with your genius. I'm not just going to take your word on it.

Gah. Never mind. Nothing I can say is going to make it seem like I'm not trying to get the last word in, and, of course, not saying at all guarantees that you get it. I hate this fucking wordplay.

It's just not worth it to try talking here.

[Soames]

Woah. Count me outta this chinese bitchfest.

[Sakurako Hino]

Yes, it is completely derailed now, with no survivors.