Aberrant RPG - Question about TK and Clone

[Gryffen]

This just came up in an online game I'm in. I'm interested in getting the thoughts of others here just to see where they lead - I've no plans to bash my GM's over the head with them...if he decides different to what results from here that's fine by me.

The question:

I am a quantum 5 nova with Clone and TK. Clone is the version from the players guide.

To keep things simple I create One clone.

TK is a non-reactive force - ie: cannot pull self along by TKing a train.

Bearing the above in mind consider the following:

I use TK to lift my clone into the air. While in the air my clone uses TK to lift me into the air.

Is it possible to do this sort of Bootstrap flying? Will it extend beyond just two clones. How would having a mental link improve this flight.

Any thoughts would be welcome.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Clones have your power signature.

You are immune to your own powers.

TK can't be used on yourself normally.

All these things point to the conclusion that nothing is going to happen.

[David Kincaid]

That's nice logic but IMO it doesn't nessisarly follow. The key line is 'TK can't be used on yourself normally.'

The only wording from the book that applies is:

,,

Quote:

Telekinesis has no action/ reaction; a character cannot be dragged by something which he is holding onto telekinetically (say, a vehicle). Nor can he use TK to pick himself up and fly.

You can read this two ways. One way is the way you did; that TK can't affect yourself at all. The other way is that you can't fly becasue of the 'no action/ reaction' thing but that it can affect you in other ways (say, making your hair move in interesting ways) ... and thus that a clone *could* lift you.

All I'm saying is that this would be a GM call due to the vague wording.

[Jager]

Possible simple solution. You and your clone each physically grab something that you are not attuned to. Each one of you TK the other's object.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by David Kincaid:

All I'm saying is that this would be a GM call due to the vague wording.

There isn't any vague wording. You are immune to your own powers. Your clone has your quantum signature. Just as if you tried to blast a clone with your quantum bolt of fiery death if you try to use your TK on your own quantum signature nothing would happen.

Jager's suggestion has merit though.

[David Kincaid]

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:

Quote:

Originally posted by David Kincaid:

All I'm saying is that this would be a GM call due to the vague wording.

There isn't any vague wording. You are immune to your own powers. Your clone has your quantum signature. Just as if you tried to blast a clone with your quantum bolt of fiery death if you try to use your TK on your own quantum signature nothing would happen.

TK <> Quantum Bolt

First there is the whole thing about self affecting powers. Shapechange wouldn't work at all if novas had blanket immunity to their own powers. Ditto for Homunculus and a bunch of other powers.

Then there are the powers that can affect both the nova and others. Heal explicitly states that it can be used on the Nova or on another target. Also most STs will let Density Increase with the Affects Others extra increase the PCs own density (though they would still pay 3 QP). I could go on with examples but the bottom line is that there is precident for Novas affecting both themselves and other with the same power.

Nova's dont' have blanket immunity to their own powers. However they are immune to the *harmful* effects of their own powers.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I would still say that the "immune to own powers" bit is what prevents you from affecting yourself with TK.

And that would also prevent using it on a Clone.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by David Kincaid:

Quote:

Originally posted by James 'Prodigy' Meehan:

Quote:

Originally posted by David Kincaid:

All I'm saying is that this would be a GM call due to the vague wording.

There isn't any vague wording. You are immune to your own powers. Your clone has your quantum signature. Just as if you tried to blast a clone with your quantum bolt of fiery death if you try to use your TK on your own quantum signature nothing would happen.

TK <> Quantum Bolt

First there is the whole thing about self affecting powers. Shapechange wouldn't work at all if novas had blanket immunity to their own powers. Ditto for Homunculus and a bunch of other powers.

Then there are the powers that can affect both the nova and others. Heal explicitly states that it can be used on the Nova or on another target. Also most STs will let Density Increase with the Affects Others extra increase the PCs own density (though they would still pay 3 QP). I could go on with examples but the bottom line is that there is precident for Novas affecting both themselves and other with the same power.

Nova's dont' have blanket immunity to their own powers. However they are immune to the *harmful* effects of their own powers.

1. Shapechange and Homunculus by their very nature change the body.

2. Heal, as you said, explicitly states that it is an exception to the rule.

3. You're talking about an extra on a power who, as with Shapechange and Homunculus, by its very nature changes the body.

Yes, there is a precident for those powers whose very nature affects the Novas own body or who are explicitly worded exceptions to ignore the 'immune from own powers' rule.

If you want to fly, buy flight.

[Gryffen]

He is correct.

Page 178 of the core rules states: "All novas are immune to all effects of their own powers;".

So in that sense I couldn't affect myself or a clone with the same quantum signature with TK.

(a silly point, and I already know what the answers is but: since the clones don't have the clone power, do they really have the same quantum signature??).

The only problem with accepting the above at face value is that the following must then be true. (please note that the examples below do not include powers that specify self as the range)

- A nova using Bioluminescence does not see the light he produces (in the same way as a nova using shroud isn't affected by the darkness).

- A Water Master cannot create a shower to have a wash or fill a cup to drink, since he cannot be affected by the water he has created.

- A matter creator cannot be affected by anything he creates in any way.

- (bit of a stretch) An ESPer cannot see himself using his own powers.

- A Gravitic controller isn't affected by the gravitational fields they create (except for the flight sub-power).

- Powers copied through Quantum Imprint have no effect on the nova they were copied from. They also provide immunity to the original nova using that power on the copying nova - since the quantum signature is copied.

- While the accelerate time sub-power of Temporal manipulation specifically mentions that the nova can affect himself, none of the other non-self ranged sub-powers do. So a temporal manipulating nova cannot affect his own age, slow time down on himself or include himself in the Stop time.

- A weather manipulator is unaffected by any changes they effect upon the weather - ie: they can see through fog, are unaffected by temperature changes and don't notice any rain,snow,etc they effect.

- momentum controllers cannot alter their own momentum.

- Precogs cannot see any details about themselves in the future.

In case your wondering, I didn't read too deeply into the rules for the above powers, pretty much just skimming and working the rest from memory. It may be worth checking further into them, and I may get around to it at some point

[Cody]

Folks, I got loads of respect for all of you when comes to interpreting rules or pioneering new precedents of existing rules. Special nods to Doc Troll and Prodigy for taking me to task several times when I was getting just a little loose with the structure. With that out of the way I have to say you seem to all be overthinking this.

Action:Reaction - All it means is the TK doesn't constitute a physical link. No being pulled by a train, no getting shoved back because the brick you tried to "grab" fought you on it.

TK Flight - the taboo shows up in several games. Ain't that big a thing and has nothing to with physics, even the rubber quantum physics of the game. It just means if you want to fly, the developers (for whatever reason) thought the game worked better if you were required to get the flight power instead. With that in mind...

Clones:TK:Flight - Kage, you are SO over thinking this...

Look, if the ST agrees with the developer on not using TK for flight there's no way this is going to work although the fellows here gave him a great rubber science explanation to use for why it won't work. If he doesn't agree, or isn't inflexible about it, he may let you pull it off and just require a power stunt/quantum feat/etc. I'd personally make you buy a dot of flight if you kept using the trick but probably allow that you developed the power capability by using the trick.

Personally I would just grab the chunk of ground I was standing on (or floor, tile, ect) and get to where I was going. Completely within the physics of the game and structure of the rules. Whether your ST interprets this as little more than a virtual 3D "elevator" or lets you act like you're surfing depends on how your power is defined, how you normally use it and how loose he wants to get about it. Its kind of a simple method but it let's you do what you want so there you go.

If he lets you "surf", don't be surprised if he makes you proves your agility anytime things get dicey.

[Cody]

On the preceding post (which went up while I was still trying to spell check my post) the answers are a variety of yes, no and golden rule.

Biolum: Umm... maybe quibbling but I'd say sight is reflected light and that interaction with the local objects allows you to see.

Water Master: yeah, it probably shouldn't but I have no problem with it working.

A matter creator: nah, I'd rule that's like saying they're immune to a chance lightning strike just because they had a hand in making the weather crappy. Once it's created it's an object like any other.

Gravity: yep, he is immune in my mind.

Quantum Imprint: not touching this one. I'll let Prodigy or Troll field it.

Weather manipulators: see matter creators above. I could justify my view using a rubber science explanation about the conditions affecting the light being used to see by but ultimately it comes back to believing the power "should" have certain effects the nova isn't immune to.

Should he be immune to his own directed lightning strikes? Sure. Should he be immune to any random lightning strike? No, or at least probably not. Should he be immune to the clever target using the directed lightning strike to electrify the metal the nova was standing on? I'd go with story over physics here and let the ST make the call appropriate to the chronicle.

Cody - who got his keyboard fixed finally.

[Gryffen]

Just to clear up my position in all of this I think I'd better state that I'm against the rather stretched use of the power to provide a character with flight in the circle-o-lift - that is the realm of the flight power.

Though lifting a clone or other character should be possible - so long as they aren't attempting to lift you at the same time - so two seperate novas with TK also couldn't bootstrap fly.

While the action/reaction bit doesn't normally involve itself with TK I would apply it in this case - such that as long as the power user is grounded or otherwise supported by a non-TK or external effect (the ground, flight, etc) it is possible to lift another nova or a clone using TK.

It is a bit of a confusing issue though. I just thought it would make for an interesting discussion (and yes...as initially stated: I plan to abide by my GM's final decision, even if it isn't my own position - so long as some discussion is allowed *8-) )

As an aside to the above - if we weren't talking about clones in the example...just two novas with the TK ability. How would that change the issue?

[Cody]

How would that change the issue?

IMHO the target(s) would become just another object being lifted by TK. Lack of action:reaction works to your advantage since it means the double lifting action, you being lifted while trying to lift someone/something else, isn't complicating the lifting you are trying to do.

[Gryffen]

One of the original points made against this use of TK was because it was related to clones doing it - with all the quantum signature issues that go along with it.

[Cody]

Right, and changing that means you don't have to worry about the quantum signature. Next on the list of things to be concerned about would be action:reaction but since that isn't a problem...

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Something to remember is that all Clones and the original only have one node between them. That means that all these powers, including the clones, are being generated and controlled by the same node.

And that in turn means that the Clone trying to use TK on the original falls dead square on the "can't fly" rule.

I'll also note that TK is a lot slower than even the slowest suite power.

RE: The other affects.

I believe the rule is that you are immune to the negative effects of your powers. (Although my book isn't handy).

- A nova using Bioluminescence does not see the light he produces (in the same way as a nova using shroud isn't affected by the darkness).

True if that light is Strobe. Not true otherwise.

- A Water Master cannot create a shower to have a wash or fill a cup to drink, since he cannot be affected by the water he has created.

Probably true if the Water Master doesn't want to be affected.

- A matter creator cannot be affected by anything he creates in any way.

Meaning that you can't shoot him with a gun he creates. If that seems odd, remember he can un-summon anything he creates.

- (bit of a stretch) An ESPer cannot see himself using his own powers.

- Precogs cannot see any details about themselves in the future.

No, and someone with Mega-Perception can see himself in the mirror.

- A Gravitic controller isn't affected by the gravitational fields they create (except for the flight sub-power).

True.

- Powers copied through Quantum Imprint have no effect on the nova they were copied from. They also provide immunity to the original nova using that power on the copying nova - since the quantum signature is copied.

The Quantum Signature isn't copied exactly, it is only mimic'ed. That is why we have rules for how many dots in the power you have, and your Q, etc.

However, if Deflection bounced a Q-Bolt back at the caster, the caster would be immune.

- A weather manipulator is unaffected by any changes they effect upon the weather - ie: they can see through fog, are unaffected by temperature changes and don't notice any rain,snow,etc they effect.

True for the most part. They are still affected by secondary affects, meaning that if they lower the temp to the point where a pond freezes, then they must still walk on it.

- momentum controllers cannot alter their own momentum.

True for the most part. If they are trying to mimic Hypermovement and/or flight I wouldn't allow it. If they were trying to take less falling damage I would.

- While the accelerate time sub-power of Temporal manipulation specifically mentions that the nova can affect himself, none of the other non-self ranged sub-powers do. So a temporal manipulating nova cannot affect his own age, slow time down on himself or include himself in the Stop time.

If a Temporal Manip pulls a powermax (or buys area) and zaps the room with "slow time", then he is not personally affected.

If he can include himself in a Stop Time, how long does the affect last?

[Jordan]

Actually David, your assumptions aren't quite accurate. In the Teregen book, under the entry for Quantum Forgery, it states that Novas are immune to their Offensive power effects. I take this to mean that any power that creates a directly harmful or negative effect won't tag the Nova creating it, but powers that harm through indirect means or that create physical objects can actually harm the originating Nova if he isn't careful.

So a nova who uses matter creation to create a gun and bullets can be shot by it unless he can dispel it quick enough. To be fair, I'd have him make a power block roll to see if his reations were fast enough.

Also, dissimunize does make a case for copied/stolen powers not working on the Nova they were copied/stolen from. While I'm not aware of anything concrete written in the rules saying this, it's how my little group chooses to run it and has made for some interesting gaming. We also assume that the Power Duper in not immune to those powers he dupes.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

We also assume that the Power Duper in not immune to those powers he dupes.

So he takes damage from a stolen Immolate? He needs to soak his stolen q-bolt when he uses it?

...under the entry for Quantum Forgery, it states that Novas are immune to their Offensive power effects.

True. But in the core book there is the example of a nova being immune to his Shrowd. Q-Forgery doesn't give immunity to everything, just Soakable affects (that's why it only provides more soak, an infinite amount with the "total" extra). Although novas are immune to "their offensive power effects", that isn't ALL they are immune to.

[Gryffen]

I believe the rule is that you are immune to the negative effects of your powers. (Although my book isn't handy).

I’ll have to have a look for my Teragen book, but as I put in an earlier post, page 178 of the core rules states: "All novas are immune to all effects of their own powers;".

- A nova using Bioluminescence does not see the light he produces (in the same way as a nova using shroud isn't affected by the darkness).

True if that light is Strobe. Not true otherwise.

Why differentiate between the two? Both involve a nova emitting light. Are you just making an arbitrary decision that modifies the rules or is there something in the books to justify your position?

- A Water Master cannot create a shower to have a wash or fill a cup to drink, since he cannot be affected by the water he has created.

Probably true if the Water Master doesn't want to be affected.

Why does he have the choice?

- A matter creator cannot be affected by anything he creates in any way.

Meaning that you can't shoot him with a gun he creates. If that seems odd, remember he can un-summon anything he creates.

Meaning that he cannot be affected by *Anything* he creates

- (bit of a stretch) An ESPer cannot see himself using his own powers.

- Precogs cannot see any details about themselves in the future.

No, and someone with Mega-Perception can see himself in the mirror.

But Mega attributes can be used on the possesor of the attribute – such as a mega strong nova punching himself to fake an injury. So Mega attributes are different to powers.

- Powers copied through Quantum Imprint have no effect on the nova they were copied from. They also provide immunity to the original nova using that power on the copying nova - since the quantum signature is copied.

The Quantum Signature isn't copied exactly, it is only mimic'ed. That is why we have rules for how many dots in the power you have, and your Q, etc.

Funny the core rules specifically state that the quantum signature is copied.

- momentum controllers cannot alter their own momentum.

True for the most part. If they are trying to mimic Hypermovement and/or flight I wouldn't allow it. If they were trying to take less falling damage I would.

<b>I take it that this is another arbitrary ruling. The players guide only refers to the power being used on targets, not on the nova himself.

I understand that most of the answers you've given are probably related to house rules implemented to make the powers make more sense and I agree with them for the most part, but I'm trying to get an answer that isn't based on someone's house rules.

If the 'not affected by own powers' rule is present then it should be applied blanket fashion (according to the *core* rules) not on a choice by choice basis. (in terms of real gameplay the selective application is the only sensible way to forward of course - but that is the realm of the house rules).

On another thought - just sprang to mind - if all clones share the same quantum signature then there is no need to attune them. Does this mean that if all the clones are touching a single force field use will encompass them all? Or a single teleport will port them all at once?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Backing up for a moment, although novas are "immune to all effects of their own powers" they are plainly not immune to secondary affects of their powers. If your fiery q-bolt sets fire to a building, then the building can burn you. If the building collapses, you aren't immune.

The Elemental Mastery power allow you to create your element. After it exists, it exists. Thus that T2M member who creates islands can walk on them. And a water EM can create a glass of water and drink it. She could presumbably relax direct control over her element and bathe in it as well (i.e. allow direct control over her element to lapse into secondary effects). I would put the Bioluminescence example under the same heading.

RE: ESP & Precog.

All results here are secondary. Just like with Shapeshift, saying that he is immune to having visions is just silly. The powers give you information, what happens after that is up to you.

RE: Matter Creation

It gets a bit tough to judge which are secondary and which are direct effects here. I would say that &#8220;Direct&#8221; applies to anything he himself creates. If he makes a gun + bullets, then he is immune. If he makes a gun and loads &#8220;real&#8221; bullets, then he isn't. It seems kind of silly to not allow him to bandage his wounds with created medical supplies.

But this one is a really tough call and it isn't hard to argue it either way. I wouldn't object to the ST saying that he isn't immune to his own bullets.

RE: Q-Imprint

Funny the core rules specifically state that the quantum signature is copied.

Although from the book, that statement is untrue on the face of it. Nova &#8220;Copycat&#8221; doesn't become immune to all of his victims powers, and he doesn't actually get all of his victims abilities. The rest of the description of Q-Imprint details rules for figuring out how &#8220;good&#8221; a copy you get to make.

Meaning, there is a word missing from the book. It should say, (page 218) &#8220;...allows a nova to copy [sOME OF] the quantum signature of another nova.&#8221;

Because there are no rules in Q-Imprint for either the victim or the copier becoming immune to the other's powers, I'd say that they aren't (after all it isn't an exact copy and there actually are rules for this sort of thing given with Q-Forgery). Having said that, I can see a case for house rules saying otherwise.

RE: Momentum Control.

I think you are right. Other targets only. Otherwise it is hard to see how you avoid flight, hypermovement, etc.

RE: Clones

I don't think &#8220;the same quantum sig.&#8221; is the same as &#8220;attuned&#8221;. For that matter, Clone doesn't use the standard attune rules. But to answer your question, I wouldn't allow it but I'm open to argument.

[Alex Craft]

A nova should be immune to his own powers when they are directly affecting him. Further, there are obvious exceptions (Shapeshift, etc.) in which the nature of the power is to affect the nova. Additionally, some powers (like Strobe) would specifically shield the nova from the effect, even though the effect produces something (only someone with a subconcious self-hatred would erupt with an ability that blinds the user).

This means that in situation in which the nova produces something - without further quantum manipulation - the 'something' is able to interact with him.

This would apply to Bioluminescence, Elemental Mastery, Matter Creation, and some effects of Weather Manipulation (IMO - this last is pretty debatable, but I think you could argue that the weather produced is a created thing. Powers like calling down lightning are probably quantum manipulations, but it really doesn't make sense to say that a nova can't heat up a cold day and enjoy the new temperature).

However, the nova can't use any form of direct quantum manipulation on himself unless the power is explicitly designed to affect the user. This includes most of the effects from Gravity Control, Temporal Manipulation, and Momentum Control.

ESP, Precognition should be able to see the character. They are passive powers that do not involve any quantum manipulation of those that they see.

I think all of the above follows, but I am sure there are exceptions.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kage.:
If the 'not affected by own powers' rule is present then it should be applied blanket fashion (according to the *core* rules) not on a choice by choice basis. (in terms of real gameplay the selective application is the only sensible way to forward of course - but that is the realm of the house rules).

I disagree with that wholeheartedly - to say so is sortof limiting to novas, and if ambiguity is in the rules, you should attempt to resolve it at least mildly in favour of the nova. Consider the possibility of a nova who has Strobe. He also has a strange version of Pretercognition that only works when he's blinded. Thus, if he wishes to use Pretercognition, he can use his Strobe to blind himself, even if his own Strobe would not normally blind him.

If the result of a power's immunity to the nova would cause unwanted detrimental effects, then you should rule that case in favour of the nova (within limits). This is not a firm rules-based answer, but I find it's by far the best rule-of-thumb I've seen. Quantum Powers don't necessarily work within logic's bounds. Mega-Strength lifts boats without them breaking. Mega-Dexterity allows a nova to dodge bullets, yet still see everything that happening around him. Mega-Stamina stops pain, but doesn't stop any other feeling.

I fail to see why you should chastise a nova by blanket-applying the nova immunity rule to Quantum Powers. It should really be case-by-case. In this case... I'd have to veto TK/Clone interaction. It would make TK more powerful than is it's right. Flight should be the flyer's power of choice.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kage.:
On another thought - just sprang to mind - if all clones share the same quantum signature then there is no need to attune them. Does this mean that if all the clones are touching a single force field use will encompass them all? Or a single teleport will port them all at once?

Hmm... I'd actually have to say yes to this, but mostly because they are all, technically, the same person anyway. It affects yourself, it doesn't necessarily say how many yourselves it can teleport/FF in one turn. That said, I would say that the Force Field might, say, require more constant powering due to the range of people it's protecting...

[David Kincaid]

IMO it is too complicated to try to decided on a case by case basis what powers can & can't affect the nova who generates them.

The way I look at it is that the nova's node & subconscious work to protect him. It's not that his powers *can't* affect him negatively it's just that they generally don't because the node makes it so.

To assume that all powers don't affect the nova unless the book specifically says so leads to some very funky stuff when you take it literally and massive arguments as seen in this thread.

[Gryffen]

You know what's weird? I haven't seen anything in this thread that leads me to believe it contains anything other than a discussion of some rules that are wide open to interpretation.

I fail to see anything that indicates a massive arguement.

I've found the various points of view and opinions exceedingly interesting - since that is all they are. The ST/GM's PoV is the one I count since his game rules are his to define and mine to play within.

The problem with adopting a blanket appoach is that players are amazingly capable of coming up with imaginative ways to broaden the scope of what a power can do based on those blanket rules.

In the "Node and sub-conscious protect nova from negative effects of their powers" version, for example, the Bootstrap levitation would be possible - since the power is working positively for the character and thus can affect him. To remove this effect, a specific case ruling has to be made by the GM to prevent it.

As you can tell, I'm all for case by case rulings - even to the extent that one Nova with a power is capable of doing things another nova with the same power cannot - purely because of the way the power was defined/described for each Nova.

Example - One nova could define his force field as hermetically sealed; nothing can pass through it, not even air. This isn't an extra or a strength, just the way the power is described (disagreements welcome). Though it does change the way the power can be used - anyone attuned to be inside it better have their own oxygen supply for a start

[Sphere]

Interesting thread this. But all that is really required is a certain amount of common sense on the part of the GM. It's kind of a spirit of the law rather than word of the law situation.

The "Novas are immune to theur own powers" rule was obviously put in to explain why a Nova doesn't die screaming every time they use their Immolate or lay down a bio-entropic storm centred on themselves.

Matter Creation: I'd say that a created gun could harm the Nova who made it. I'd allow the Nova to attempt a power block to disperse it. But the power makes objects which have to obey the laws of physics, otherwise it'd get silly (I summon a fully functional adamantium-plated time machine). If the Nova makes an iron bar and someone whacks him with it, he'd take damage.

Elemental Mastery: So you're saying a water elemental couldn't put herself out if she was on fire? Silly.

The original question of a Nova and his clone lifting each other with TK is possible. Just needs both of them to be standing on a plank of wood or something. But remember TK is a very crude way of manipulating things (unless you get the Precise TK enhancement, and that's for doing things like writing or picking locks, etc). The Nova and his clone won't be able to move very fast or with any real grace. It'd be easier just to buy Flight.

Hermetically sealed Force Field, not an Enhancement? I strongly disagree. Especially when, as you've pointed out, it could be used to asphixiate people you've attuned. Might not be a rule in the book, but it changes the fundamental nature of the power. I'd allow hermetically sealed force fields with the proviso that it becomes air permeable when surronding people that need to breathe. Common sense again.

[Jager]

The great and terrible thing about the Storyteller system, and roleplaying games in general, is the power that the ST/GM has. His/Her call to make things clear in the uncertainty. His/Her call to make the game fun and fair.

Lord, how I love it so.

[Sakurako Hino]

I do too. It's just that there are some gamers out there who have... a difference of opinion on that sort of thing.

[Brucifer]

My resident Tk came up with the idea of a small metal disc that sprang into a slightly larger metal disc. She then lifts the disc and steps onto it.

TK Flight.

I think...

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

That works, however...

1) TK flight is slow.

2) She isn't TK'ing herself. She is TK'ing that disc she is standing on. She needs to balance on it (probably impossible in combat) and can't recover if she falls or is knocked off it.

[Brucifer]

Balancing is always possible with M-Dex and a frew enhancements (Im sure there are pplout there who can work it - we have)and the player hasnt worked the falling off bit out yet - i reckon some sort of test to TK the disc back under her.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

M-Dex(Perfect Balance) would be best, although M-Dex in general (especially with Physical Prodigy or adhession) would also work... ...at least until she takes knockback or gets knocked down.

In a series of books a guy with TK got around these problems by picking up a car (or a tank) and flying around inside it.

Speed could be a big issue. As I recall, TK is 10m per dot per action. Flight from the suite powers is (I think) 20m + 2m * Level, basic Flight is more.

[Jager]

Wild Cards: The Turtle. He flew around in a VW Beetle, with a few "additions".

Hmmmmm .... 10m/dot (at level 5) would be 50m/every six seconds.

500m/minute ... 30kph (18mph).

If you do a round as three seconds, double it, so at 60kph, or 36 mph, you aren't scaring too many people. Unless you get hypermovement.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

I'm pretty sure you can't apply hypermovement to TK.

H-move affects self. TK affects everything but self. Also, you can't get hypermovement on suite created flight.

All in all I'd prefer that the nova with TK use it as an in theme reason to buy Flight.

[Jeremy Williams]

Damn, I glossed right over that thing about Propelling techniques.

[momento]

Wouldn't it just be quicker to buy flight? It'll make you more agile and not so dependent on your partner to stay within your range.

[Destiny]

Dr Troll, you are right acording to the rules in the main book you can not get hypermovement on suit powers. WW I one of the NPC has hyperflight and only has the Gavity Control as a way to fly. Probably a mistake on White Wolf half however I felt it was worth mentioning.

[Charlie]

The idea to not allow Flight, is probbly a lot more simple. No Free Lunch.

You see this in the way a Point of Taint reduces the Nova Point cost by only 1 for a Mega-Dot of something as an example instead of having half a point left over or getting 2 Mega-Dots for 1 dot of Taint like you get 2 dots in a Level 1 Power.

Tk costs 3 Nova Points and so does Flight for a Total of 6 Nova Points.

Why not just take Flight or Action/Reaction as an extra? You save 1 Nova Point and the weakness would be in some Nova with Quantum Vampire to steal more with 1 attempt. This would also work with many of the fictional characters out there, Jager mentioned Turtle from the Wildcards series. He did that serveral times that he "grabbed" something with TK, such as Dr. T's ship and got drug into low Earth orbit.

I personaly like the idea of Telekinetic Mastery see http://www.users.nac.net/corporal/aberrant/powers/levelthree.html which makes sense for those players that want to emulate comicbook characters.

[Jager]

What Action/Reaction extra?

Also, Flight has an non-combat form that allows for long range travel. TK doesn't, and shouldn't, have that effect.

Also, what is it with that sight up posted and non-soakable, or Hardbody-only soakable attacks? I found Blood Disintegrate particularly amusing, as it is the Disintegrate power, used in a suite of powers instead of a stand alone.

Were do you get the ideas for these powers and power sets? The ideas are pretty interesting, but I find the execution to be a bit much.

[Charlie]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
What Action/Reaction extra?
Also, Flight has an non-combat form that allows for long range travel. TK doesn't, and shouldn't, have that effect.

Also, what is it with that sight up posted and non-soakable, or Hardbody-only soakable attacks? I found Blood Disintegrate particularly amusing, as it is the Disintegrate power, used in a suite of powers instead of a stand alone.

Were do you get the ideas for these powers and power sets? The ideas are pretty interesting, but I find the execution to be a bit much.

So you create an Action/Reaction Extra for the purpose of flight. The idea is not without merit since the rules give Extras at the end of the Powers listing (don't have my book and don't feel like getting it).

The ideas for power sets are from the main book, and the individual who created it is only following the model created by WW.

Since they no longer support the game it is up to us, the fans to do so.

Spending hours of pointless debate on "if I can lift the floor beneath my feet and move it with TK, I can fly" is a waste of this forum.

Telekinesis - n : a the power to move something by thinking about it without the application of physical force [syn: psychokinesis].
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

Psychokinesis- The production or control of motion, especially in inanimate and remote objects, purportedly by the exercise of psychic powers.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

The idea behind no Action/Reaction is so that every time you grab a moving car with TK, you are not yanked down the street if you do not make your roll. It is the same idea of a Nova picking up a Tank by it's barrel, looks cool in the movieThe Hulk, but it would not happen in real life. Most things that a Nova is capable of picking up, would crumble under it's own weight if lifted in the wrong place. The Nova is using a limited form of TK with No Range.

If I try and stop a moving train with TK, and I only have enough sucesses to affect the Engine I will derail the rest of the train.

[Charlie]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kage.:

- A weather manipulator is unaffected by any changes they effect upon the weather - ie: they can see through fog, are unaffected by temperature changes and don't notice any rain,snow,etc they effect.
- Precogs cannot see any details about themselves in the future.

Just some funny thoughts -

Weather Manipulator - Storm seems immune to the weather, except when she wanted to use it for showering purposes.

Precogs - maybe that is why they can charge you for a winning Lottery number, but they never seem to have it for themselves.