Aberrant RPG - Mega-Mental & Mega-Social Feats

[Sprocket]

Re: The current mini-charts-

...are as follows. I've pegged the most recent workable ideas & plugged them in.

Mega-Appearance

• 1 dot: x.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: x.

• 4 dots: x.

• 5 dots: x.

• 6 dots: Temporarily soothe baselines suffering from psychotic episodes upon seeing your loveliness.

• 7 dots: Seeing you in person qualifies as a life-changing experience.

• 8 dots: Your amazing looks are so transcendent that even mosquitoes and other insects will avoid biting you and marring your perfection.

• 9 dots: People will engage in bidding wars into the billions of dollars for an authentic digital photo of you.

• 10 dots: x.

Mega-Ugliness

• 1 dot: x.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: People will do whatever you request, just to get you to leave.

• 4 dots: x.

• 5 dots: Cause various kinds of hysteria reactions in typical baselines who view your horrid visage.

• 6 dots: Make baselines involuntarily urinate and/or defecate out of the basic animal fear reaction upon catching sight of you.

• 7 dots: x.

• 8 dots: x.

• 9 dots: x.

• 10 dots: x.

Mega-Manipulation

• 1 dot: Polygraphs show exactly what you want them to show, entirely at your will and independent of your overt answers and their truthfulness.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: Take a standard baseline who hates you and wants nothing more than to spoil your plans, and get him to yell exasperatedly "Just tell us what you want, we're going to end up doing it anyway!".

• 4 dots: You never lose card games with baseline opponents, even if the rules are newly explained.

• 5 dots: x.

• 6 dots: Your reflexive insincerity is so refined that you never actually make a definitive lie.

• 7 dots: x.

• 8 dots: x.

• 9 dots: x.

• 10 dots: The nova's player may choose at any time to have an unlikely but theoretically possible, event or sequence of events to happen, based on the nova's prior machinations coming to fruition exactly when desired. This costs one point of temporary Willpower and requires a Manipulation roll, with a difficulty based on the unlikelihood of the events.

[metaphysician]

Mega Appearance:

"Average baselines will always fulfill minor requests from you."

"You constantly have an impromptu entourage, whenever there are neutral inclined or better people around."

[Sprocket]

Not bad, both of those are just about right to be pegged & plugged into the M-App mini-chart. Only a little rewriting was needed to clarify them.

Average baselines who find you attractive will always fulfill minor requests from you when possible.

I'm pegging this at M-App 1; it's appealingly low-key & I can easily see this being used by "stealth novas".

You can always attract an impromptu entourage of admirers, provided there are people around who are sexually oriented toward and non-hostile (at the minimum) to you.

This I'm pegging as M-App 3. It's what the heartthrobs of the movie & fashion industries can sometimes do, only amplified to obviously superhuman levels.

[metaphysician]

I phrased them partly to allow for scaling upward, if there's a need for more feats. Like, getting non-trivial favors off sheer sex appeal, or attracting a retinue even among a hostile population.

[Sprocket]

Re: Scaling up-

There's a limit to how much M-App can do when used in a positive manner against hostiles. Winning over the hostile natives is more in line with Mega-Charisma, which we've already covered. It's pretty much the same with getting non-trivial favors - Mega-Charisma is somewhat more effective. Ever heard about people who are "total studs/babes" in photos but who have dull/annoying/unpleasant personalities? High App ratings (& M-App) only go so far AFA the "likable factor".

Somehow I don't think coming up with high-rating M-App feats will be as difficult as the high-caliber M-Ugly & M-Manip feats have been. We have more than enough examples of RL outrageous behavior from overly-infatuated groupies of both genders toward their respective celebrities to come up with original feat ideas. M-App would only encourage that kind of wackiness from people and/or in circumstances where it wouldn't ordinarily be expected to occur with a baseline celebrity.

If anything, the difficulty will be choosing what kinds of RL groupie wackiness to amplify & use as a feat idea. ::laugh ::sly

[Forge]

Mega -App 10 possibility

a la the sword of truth & confessors...

'Baselines will die on the spot out of their insatiable desire to please you just because you tell them to.' ::wub

or something like that.

Mega Ugly

'It takes a successful willpower check just to look at you.' ::scared

not a feat 'Descriptions of your body inspire best-selling horror novels.'

not a feat 'Your visage has inspired the 'evil' side of religions.' ::devil

not a feat 'There is a death-metal band named for you.'

maybe? 'You no longer appear to be human.'

'Your visage is so horrid that cameras and similar media cannot record you.'

'The horror of you is so potent that even your presence at a scene affects baselines whether they see you or not.'

K, brain empty again...heh

[Alex Green]

It takes a successful willpower check just to look at you.'

Spend willpower just to look at you?

[Forge]

Spend willpower just to look at you?

ie, You are so damn ugly that people can't look at you without first making a willpower check/spending a willpower.

[Sprocket]

Spend willpower just to look at you?

I believe that's already been used as a Mega-Ugliness enhancement in Aberrant: Forceful Personalities.

'Baselines will die on the spot out of their insatiable desire to please you just because you tell them to.'

This means "willingly commit suicide", correct?

'Your visage is so horrid that cameras and similar media cannot record you.'

This one's also been covered as a Mega-App enhancement in AB:FP that's available to Mega-Ugly novas.

'The horror of you is so potent that even your presence at a scene affects baselines whether they see you or not.'

Sounds just like Blind Bewitchment from the APG.

Re: Long time no post!-

Hey there, Gideon! ::welcome Feel free to add in your ideas, if you've got 'em.

[Alex Green]

Ugly zeros out all uses of App except for Intimidation.

Intimidation has two uses, active and passive. Passive makes people give you room, Active is for actively threatening people.

So... even plants avoid you? even insects flee your presence?

[Forge]

This means "willingly commit suicide", correct?

Yes

Re: all the rest

I suppose I should read A:FP again if I am duplicating that much.

[metaphysician]

Hmm, random question: is there a requirement for someone obviously non-human and mutated to have negative mega appearance?

I have this image of a giant serpent creature that nonetheless has Mega Appearance. . .

[Sprocket]

So... even plants avoid you? even insects flee your presence?

We could use something like that for M-Ugly 8 if we wanted. It's just the negative version of the current M-App 8 feat. ::cool That said, it'd likely turn out as "predatory/parasitic animals (including insects) wouldn't touch you even if they're starving to death". Plants aren't even as sentient as an insect, so they wouldn't react AFAIK.

Re: M-App 10 feat idea-

After looking it over, I don't have a problem with using this idea for the M-App 10 feat, but I may also be mistaken. Do you folks think that M-App 10 should be just as effective as 5 successes on a Domination roll (what's normally required to make a victim kill himself)?

Re: Non-human looking M-App-

Hmm, random question: is there a requirement for someone obviously non-human and mutated to have negative mega appearance?

I have this image of a giant serpent creature that nonetheless has Mega Appearance. . .

I don't see why a non-humanform M-App nova would not be allowed. IIRC, one RPGPost member by the handle of Wakinyan has become a griffin, & I think he's written as having some level of M-App. I might easily be mistaken on that, though.

The best way to accomplish this would likely to either use several specialized Body modifications (just like you'll find in Chapter 4 of AB:TNF) or a specialized/limited form of the Shapeshift power.

While we did use a high-level M-Ugly aberration along that theme in AB:FP, that was really just intended for the H.P. Lovecraft/Cthulhuoid theme that goes so well with high levels of Taint. ::devil

[Psilord]

Re: M-App 10 feat idea-

I've read the sword of truth series and I always pictured the confessor's ability

more mega-charisma, rather than mega-appearance.

The confessor is described as very beautiful, but she has to release her confessor's

power to affect a victim with it. In effect they fall so utterly in love with her that they

lose all resistance to her desires for them. They find doing whatever she tells them

to bring the utmost in joy, pleasing her is their only wish. When she tells one to die

they don't need (can but don't need) to take any action, their desire to please is so

strong that they simply die on the spot.

If it were a mega-appearance function it would affect anyone who saw her, instead

of needing her to activate it.

RE: I don't see why a non-humanform M-App nova would not be allowed.

I agree; I think mega-app could easily also represent striking visual presence instead

of just beauty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, cliche but true.

Just my two coppers.

[Sprocket]

Re: M-Ugly 8 feat-

Since things have been quiet for the last 2 days, I'll go ahead & fill out this slot with a rewritten version of Forge's idea. It's alreaddy been added to the mini-chart.

• 8 dots: Predatory and parasitic animals would rather starve to death than touch you.

For an analog to this from the movies, there was a scene in Jurassic Park 3 where Jeff Goldblum's character & 2 other of the heroes are forced to search through a 2 meter tall pile of fresh T. Rex dung for a (still functional) satellite phone that was their only contact with their main rescue party. (It had been stolen by one of the three mercs who'd turned on the heroes/employers, only to be eaten by that very same T. Rex.)

Suddenly that T. Rex shows up again, stares back at the gaping humans, then snorts & goes away. You could almost see the disgust & revulsion in the T. Rex's facial expression.

Re: M-App 10 feat & the confessor-

Well, the described effect certainly doesn't seem to mesh very well with what M-App is capable of. So that's one vote for it & one against (Psilord), counting Forge as voting for it.

Re: Non-humaniform M-App-

Last I knew "striking visual presence" *was* considered to be a form of beauty. Myself, I'd treat it just like normal M-App except for purposes of sexual attraction, where 99% of the time it will be inapplicable & a non-issue.

[Alex Green]

RE: M-8

That looks good.

[Sprocket]

Re: M-Ugly 8 feat-

All right, I'm considering that one to be approved. The remaining unfinished feat mini-charts are now as follows:

Mega-Appearance

• 1 dot: Average baselines who find you attractive will always fulfill minor requests from you when possible.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: You can always attract an impromptu entourage of admirers, provided there are people around who are sexually oriented toward and non-hostile (at the minimum) to you.

• 4 dots: x.

• 5 dots: x.

• 6 dots: Temporarily soothe baselines suffering from psychotic episodes upon seeing your loveliness.

• 7 dots: Seeing you in person qualifies as a life-changing experience.

• 8 dots: Your amazing looks are so transcendent that even mosquitoes and other insects will avoid biting you and marring your perfection.

• 9 dots: People will engage in bidding wars into the billions of dollars for an authentic digital photo of you.

• 10 dots: x.

Mega-Ugliness

• 1 dot: x.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: People will do whatever you request, just to get you to leave.

• 4 dots: x.

• 5 dots: Cause various kinds of hysteria reactions in typical baselines who view your horrid visage.

• 6 dots: Make baselines involuntarily urinate and/or defecate out of the basic animal fear reaction upon catching sight of you.

• 7 dots: x.

• 8 dots: Predatory and parasitic animals would rather starve to death than touch you.

• 9 dots: x.

• 10 dots: x.

Mega-Manipulation

• 1 dot: Polygraphs show exactly what you want them to show, entirely at your will and independent of your overt answers and their truthfulness.

• 2 dots: x.

• 3 dots: Take a standard baseline who hates you and wants nothing more than to spoil your plans, and get him to yell exasperatedly "Just tell us what you want, we're going to end up doing it anyway!".

• 4 dots: You never lose card games with baseline opponents, even if the rules are newly explained.

• 5 dots: x.

• 6 dots: Your reflexive insincerity is so refined that you never actually make a definitive lie.

• 7 dots: x.

• 8 dots: x.

• 9 dots: x.

• 10 dots: The nova's player may choose at any time to have an unlikely but theoretically possible, event or sequence of events to happen, based on the nova's prior machinations coming to fruition exactly when desired. This costs one point of temporary Willpower and requires a Manipulation roll, with a difficulty based on the unlikelihood of the events.

We've got only 15 empty feat slots left to fill, folks. Anyone care to take a shot at them?

[Alex Green]

RE: Ugly

AI's hate you, avoid you, fear you?

RE: Beauty

To see you is to love you?

RE: Manip

Just like butterflies can cause hurricanes, you can manipulate events without... um... I'm stuck.

[Rorx]

M-App 2 or 4 slot, as per 1 but make it a Major request. For 4 it could be life-threatening?

[Sprocket]

RE: Ugly

AI's hate you, avoid you, fear you?

RE: Beauty

To see you is to love you?

RE: Manip

Just like butterflies can cause hurricanes, you can manipulate events without... um... I'm stuck.

Re: M-Ugly & AIs-

I have to admit that this one has got me stumped. While there is definitely the potential for AIs being created in the Nova Age (if only as quantum gadgets at the most restrictive chronicles), I think they're going to be a collection of wildly-varying prototypes. Some of them will certainly have near- or fully-baseline capacities for emotional responses to beauty/ugliness, & others will have none of that "meat-analogous" programming.

Re: "To see you is to love you"-

Props for the quote from Spiral about Longshot! ::laugh

That said, this could work at M-App 4 or 5, although it'd be more "to see you is to be infatuated with / lust after you" AFAICT. (Inducing romantic love is the purview of Mega-Charisma.) It also brings up the question of attracting people of the incorrect sexual orientation (or make said people question their own assumed sexual orientation), which I'd allow but as a higher-rated feat that this one.

Re: M-Manip analog to the Chaos Butterfly-

I think what you're trying to say (& I may be mistaken) is "You can produce dramatic results with the most seemingly insignificant social actions". It sounds great, but I can't really tell if it's a feat or fluff/color text for one of the 6+ dot ratings of M-Manip. ::unsure

M-App 2 or 4 slot, as per 1 but make it a Major request. For 4 it could be life-threatening?

Major requests: Possible, I'd peg it as M-App 4. Susceptibility of the target to the idol's beauty would also be a big factor in this, since lust/infatuation would appear to be the main motivations "powering" this response.

Life-threatening requests: Figuring out what this would take is easy (it needs to equal getting 5 successes on a Domination roll), but I'm having doubts as to whether M-App is suited for it. It would likely work better with M-Manip.

[Alex Green]

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials with Q6+ making people kill themselves.

[Sprocket]

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials with Q6+ making people kill themselves.

Fair enough, using M-Manip with psychological torture to induce suicide was already covered in our Mega-Social ebook. I have no problem with shelving this idea.

Re: Tally of (sort of) workable new ideas-

So right now we've got the following feat ideas, with tentative dot ratings.

M-Appearance

>To see you is to be infatuated with and/or lust after you, provided they're sexually oriented towards your gender. (M-App 4)

>Even people of the incorrect sexual orientation will feel some attraction towards you. (M-App 5)

M-Manipulation

>You can produce dramatic results with the most seemingly insignificant social actions. (M-Manip 7, 8 or 9)

Are those three good to go, or is further tinkering required?

[Sprocket]

Re: Other forms of M-App-

This topic surfaced here a while back, & I've finally given in & hammered out a sidebar to address it. If it passes muster with you guys, it will follow right after the mini-feat chart for Mega-Appearance.

Mega-Appearance Variations

In nearly all of the prior canon and fan-produced books for Aberrant, Appearance and Mega-Appearance have been presented solely in terms of human late adolescent/adult beauty and the corresponding sex appeal. As with everything else in the Nova Age, the topic is a bit more complicated than that. Guidelines for using the Appearance and Mega-Appearance of beings who aren't adults, fully human or even organic lifeforms have been provided.

Human Children: While certainly not inhuman (despite what some ill-prepared parents may think), children - even Mega-Attractive nova children - are not considered sexually attractive by mentally healthy humans. The Storyteller is encouraged to declare all Seduction rolls by underage characters and Style rolls intended to make a child "look sexy" to be automatic failures. Depending on the circumstances, the results of those automatic failures can be either highly comical or deeply disturbing.

Semi-human Beings: Novas whose bodies are a blend of standard human anatomy and nonhuman features granted by permanent Body Modifications are something of a gray area where the majority of baselines and other novas are concerned. Depending on the nature and amount of such a nova's nonhuman features, the Storyteller can apply a difficulty penalty of +1 to +4 to all Seduction rolls and Style rolls intended to make the nova look sexy. In cases where the Body Modifications are either minimal or are considered attractive by the standards of certain baseline human cultures (i.e. a pair of angelic wings or the "nekomimi" of manga/anime fandom), the difficulty penalty should be waived altogether.

Non-human Beings: Likewise, most humans are not attracted to nonhuman creatures. This also applies to non-aberrated novas who have permanently altered themselves though extreme levels of Body Modifications into nonhuman forms. The Storyteller is within her rights to declare that the positive Appearance of such beings and the Mega-Appearance possessed by non-humanshaped novas cannot be utilized in terms of sex appeal with the majority of baseline humans and novas. Don't even bother rolling.

Inorganic Objects, Natural Phenomena Etc.: This is Aberrant you're playing, not Exalted. Don't even bother rolling, this counts as an automatic failure for all but a few mentally-disordered humans and novas.

[Alex Green]

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials with Q6+ making people kill themselves.

I mis-poke. That should be...

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials withOUT Q6+ making people kill themselves.

[Alex Green]

>Even people of the incorrect sexual orientation will feel some attraction towards you. (M-App 5)

Might be lower depending on how much of a diff this is.

M-Appearance

>To see you is to be infatuated with and/or lust after you, provided they're sexually oriented towards your gender. (M-App 4)

Ditto.

M-Manipulation

>You can produce dramatic results with the most seemingly insignificant social actions. (M-Manip 7, 8 or 9)

Good.

[Sprocket]

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials with Q6+ making people kill themselves.

I misspoke. That should be...

As a normal *feat* I don't want to see any of the mega-socials withOUT Q6+ making people kill themselves.

::shrug Then consider the idea off the shelf & back in action. Now we're back to the question of "exactly how much M-App (6+) is required to equal getting 5 successes on a Domination roll?" Is it worthy of the M-App 10 slot? Your thoughts on that, folks?

>Even people of the incorrect sexual orientation will feel some attraction towards you. (M-App 5)

>To see you is to be infatuated with and/or lust after you, provided they're sexually oriented towards your gender. (M-App 4)

Might be lower depending on how much of a diff this is.

I'd say that making a person feel sexually attracted to a person of the incorrect gender would certainly be more difficult mechanics-wise in Aberrant than it is in Exalted, where bisexuality is supposed to be the default orientation for humans.

Also, inspiration (no pun intended) for these ideas came from an Aberrant player over at RPG-Post. His/her (female) character was depicted as feeling unaccustomed attraction to a female idol w/ M-App in the 4-5 dot range IIRC. M-App 4 as the absolute minimum for overcoming sexual orientation and cultural inhibition sounds plausible to me.

>You can produce dramatic results with the most seemingly insignificant social actions. (M-Manip 7, 8 or 9)

Good.

Thanks, but that doesn't help much AFA pegging the feat. Is it epic enough to be rated at 8 or 9 dots, or does M-Manip 7 sound more plausible?

Re: "Mega-Appearance Variations"-

Just so you folks know, this piece *is* something of a first effort. If fine-tuning seems necessary, feel free to point it out. ::smile

[Alex Green]

RE: Making people die for you.

At mega-10 we're talking 2+4+9 succ, or 15 succ. So that's 11 more than a 10 willpower.

Personally I'd say you'd need 5 more succ over and above the normal +5 succ that lets you do anything. I.e. 10 succ. So it sounds about right.

RE: Sexuality.

If I buy that "true believe" or "true love" or what ever that background merit is called, I get a +2 diff to be swayed away from it or her. If we apply that to sexuality, then that's only minus 2 mega, or you'd need a Mega-3 to still have a Mega-One.

[Sprocket]

RE: Making people die for you.

At mega-10 we're talking 2+4+9 succ, or 15 succ. So that's 11 more than a 10 willpower.

Personally I'd say you'd need 5 more succ over and above the normal +5 succ that lets you do anything. I.e. 10 succ. So it sounds about right.

Looks like I goofed AFA what's needed to force a suicide w/ Domination - the listing says that only 4 successes above the target's WP are what's needed. My bad. ::tongue

Still the feat idea does work well at M-App 10, so that's one more slot filled with the following:

"People will gladly endanger their own lives - even to the point of committing suicide - if they think that you're asking it of them."

Re: Sexuality-

::huh That's probably the first time I've ever seen the True Love Merit compared with one's sexual orientation. Interesting.

AFA overriding the subject's natural sexual orientation, perhaps another look at Domination would be helpful. The listing says that three successes more than the victim's WP is what's needed to make him/her perform an Antithetical action. Is M-App 5 sufficient for that?

Re: M-App 4 feat idea-

I've decided to knock the current "to see you is to be infatuated with/lust after you" feat down to M-App 2. Replacing it in the M-App 4 slot will be the following:

"People who find you attractive will always fulfill major requests from you, provided that they think there's any chance that they could get lucky with you."

Note: We're *very* close to finishing the M-App feat mini-chart, folks. ::biggrin

[Sprocket]

Re: The finalized M-App feats mini-chart-

If the latest batch of ideas makes the cut, it will look like this:

Mega-Appearance

• 1 dot: Average baselines who find you attractive will always fulfill minor requests from you when possible.

• 2 dots: To see you is to be infatuated with and/or lust after you, provided they're sexually oriented towards your gender.

• 3 dots: You can always attract an impromptu entourage of admirers, provided there are people around who are sexually oriented toward and non-hostile (at the minimum) to you.

• 4 dots: People who find you attractive will always fulfill major requests from you, provided that they think there's any chance that they could get lucky with you.

• 5 dots: Even people of the incorrect sexual orientation will feel sexually attracted towards you.

• 6 dots: Temporarily soothe baselines suffering from psychotic episodes upon seeing your loveliness.

• 7 dots: Seeing you in person qualifies as a life-changing experience.

• 8 dots: Your amazing looks are so transcendent that even mosquitoes and other insects will avoid biting you and marring your perfection.

• 9 dots: People will engage in bidding wars into the billions of dollars for an authentic photo of you.

• 10 dots: People will gladly endanger their own lives - even to the point of committing suicide - if they think that you're asking it of them.

Assuming that everything on the preceding mini-chart is plausible, that still leaves us with 6 M-Ugly feats & 5 M-Manip feats to come up with.

[Alex Green]

AFA overriding the subject's natural sexual orientation, perhaps another look at Domination would be helpful. The listing says that three successes more than the victim's WP is what's needed to make him/her perform an Antithetical action.

That seems more on point than True Love, so +3 Sux it is.

Is M-App 5 sufficient for that?

Succ per Dot of M-A: 1.7 (+1 App, +1 Style, +1 Mega)

MA 1: 1.7 Succ

MA 2: 3.4 Succ

MA 3: 5.1 Succ

MA 4: 6.8 Succ

MA 5: 8.5 Succ

With Sexual Orientation Adjustment

MA 1: 0 Succ

MA 2: 0.4 Succ

MA 3: 2.1 Succ

MA 4: 3.8 Succ

MA 5: 5.5 Succ

So with Mega-3, you're attractive even to the wrong gender. Whether they will sleep with you depends on how high their willpower is. A 3 willpower results in 0.9 succ for the nova, so more often than not with generic baselines. So it's not really a feat at 3, i.e. even the generic baseline wouldn't admit you're sexually desirable.

Mega-4 is starting to get up there. Willpower 7 would be 1 succ for the nova.

If we assume that many/most people would spend a point of willpower, then this only works for willpower 3 and 4. I think we need to assume that.

Mega-5? Way up there. *Everyone* of the wrong orientation will find you attractive. They could spend a point of willpower and *still* find you attractive.

Note that's as a feat, if the nova invests in Style 5 then he's got +2 succ and could do the same thing with a 4, or maybe lower with the weak willed.

[Sprocket]

Re: Attracting those of the incorrect orientation-

All right, then that feat is plausibly plugged into the M-App 5 feat slot. Barring any objections, the M-App feat mini-chart appears to be finished. Just 2 more mini-charts (and 10-11 feats) to go... ::brick ::laugh

[Alex Green]

an authentic digital photo of you

Suggest: an authentic photo of you

[Sprocket]

Suggest: an authentic photo of you

Agreed, most folks wouldn't quibble over such fine details. Consider it changed.

Re: Pegging that high-caliber M-Manip feat-

You can produce dramatic results with the most seemingly insignificant social actions. (M-Manip 7, 8 or 9?)

I'm leaving this feat idea unpegged for the time being. That way, we can plug it into whichever one of those three slots is the last to be filled.

[metaphysician]

How about something more specific. . .

"You can trigger a rise or fall in the stock market, via a single email sent a week beforehand."

[Sprocket]

"You can trigger a rise or fall in the stock market, via a single email sent a week beforehand."

::blink That sounds more like a M-Wits feat, since Biz is a Wits-based Ability. If it was manipulating a given social group/situation, it'd qualify as M-Manip.

Also that "non-specific" feat is a currently just convenient filler at best - to be used if we don't get anything better to fill up the M-Manip 7, 8 & 9 feat slots.

[metaphysician]

Thing is, effecting the market is, in many ways, just a matter of influencing the decisions of the people trading on it. The idea here is, your manipulation is good enough that you can see the linchpin to get one decision to influence others.

[Sprocket]

Thing is, effecting the market is, in many ways, just a matter of influencing the decisions of the people trading on it. The idea here is, your manipulation is good enough that you can see the linchpin to get one decision to influence others.

OK, I can see how M-Manip could be used in that manner to create a change. Problem is, there's no guarantee that the resulting change will be exactly what the grifter (nova w/ M-Manip) intended w/out a good Biz rating. The phrase "tossing a monkey wrench into the works" comes to mind. The potential for unintended consequences should be a big factor.

I'm not opposed to using this, as long as the risks of ignorant tinkering are not glossed over.

Finally, what dot rating were you suggesting this be pegged at?

[Alex Green]

Let's re-visit Manip's skills.

Diplomacy, Hypnosis, Interrogation, Seduction, Streetwise, and Subterfuge.

Far as I can tell, we haven't done anything with the first three.

[metaphysician]

Hypnosis, problem is, any real feat with that crosses over too much with The Gaze.

Hmm, how about:

"You can convince two people actively fighting to stop fighting, for as long as you continue to converse with them."

"You can get ordinary baselines to reveal whatever information you like, without them realizing they did so."

[Alex Green]

I need to re-read the APG for some of this.

I do think "without them realizing they did so" seems a bit much since they're probably actively telling you this.