Aberrant RPG - Quantum Vampire: Health Levels

[BlueNinja]

I have some questions about Q-Vamping health levels, mostly due to SkyLion.

1) If you are injured, and you Q-Vamp some health levels, can you use those health levels to heal the damage you have already taken instead of gaining extra 'bruised' levels?

2) If you gain extra bruised levels, and take damage, does the extra damage remain (the way it does with Sizemorph Grow) or does it disappear when the extra health levels do?

3) If you vamp health levels, can you use them to Die for Power instead of gaining health levels?

[Alex Green]

You take damage, it needs to heal, no matter how many health levels you have or whether or not that number varies. Q-Vamp for all it's strengths doesn't actually heal damage, it just gives you new health levels.

See also: Sizemorph: Growth

[BlueNinja]

You take damage, it needs to heal, no matter how many health levels you have or whether or not that number varies. Q-Vamp for all it's strengths doesn't actually heal damage, it just gives you new health levels.

See also: Sizemorph: Growth

Since you are causing the other person damage, why can't you use it like an 'exchange' to heal damage you've taken?

[Alex Green]

Since you are causing the other person damage, why can't you use it like an 'exchange' to heal damage you've taken?

Because that's not the game mechanic used, and because the effect goes away in an hour.

You get extra Bruised levels. That's it. You don't get to replace what's hurt you. No where are there any hints towards that, if they'd wanted to go that route then we'd have different rules for healing Bashing, Lethal, & Agg damage, especially because what you do is Bashing damage. Should one level of Bashing damage inflicted Heal a level of Agg damage? The answer is 'No' because there is no Healing aspect to any of this.

[SkyLion]

Because that's not the game mechanic used, and because the effect goes away in an hour.

You get extra Bruised levels. That's it. You don't get to replace what's hurt you. No where are there any hints towards that, if they'd wanted to go that route then we'd have different rules for healing Bashing, Lethal, & Agg damage, especially because what you do is Bashing damage. Should one level of Bashing damage inflicted Heal a level of Agg damage? The answer is 'No' because there is no Healing aspect to any of this.

,,

the mechanic is changed slightly for the "life force" version...it doesnt go away in an hour for the person who got vamped...they have to heal as normal.

,,

I agree with your second point though. If this were to be allowed, then it should take 2 bashing to heal one lethal or 3 to heal one agg (if allowed at all.) this puts it in line with the other healing./regenerative abilities.

[Alex Green]

the mechanic is changed slightly for the "life force" version...it doesnt go away in an hour for the person who got vamped...they have to heal as normal. ,,

I agree with your second point though. If this were to be allowed, then it should take 2 bashing to heal one lethal or 3 to heal one agg (if allowed at all.) this puts it in line with the other healing./regenerative abilities.

The fact you need to create those rules already puts you deep into house rules.

And all of the other "healing" powers only allow one Health level healed for every point of quantum spent.

The typical baseline has an Stamina of 2 and a Resistance of zero. With difficulty, this gives them an average Resistance roll of Zero.

A Q-Vamp (Health) attack costs 2q and averages 6.9 succ. So your 2q Heals an average of 7 health levels of damage, and it does so at the same time that you make a resisted (i.e. unsoakable) attack on someone. If you get RQC then the attack costs 1q, and you could "pull your punch" to let it cost zero. No wait, you don't even need to get RQC because you could just burn life levels for quantum and make it juice free even without RQC.

A 1 to 4 juice to Healing rate is something we don't see this side of Q6 and Mastery, and even then we only see it on "Healing". To put it on a non-healing Q3 power, by inference, implies that the inference is wrong.

[SkyLion]

I didnt create those rules...they are already present for healing (ie 1 q for 1 bashing or 2 q (or two bashing) for 1 lethal) and the errata in the APG says that regen and healing can heal agg at the rate of 3 q per agg (or if you will 3 bashing or 1.5 (perhaps just rounded to 2) lethal)

[Alex Green]

As I recall, with Healing 1q buys you one level of Bashing or Lethal Healing, and the Healer is limited to Healing the number of dots in Healing (for Lethal) or twice that (for Bashing). Aggravated is 3x that.

Regen also does 1 or 1 (or 3x for Agg), but is limited to mega-stamina per round and also limited to yourself.

Q-Vamp isn't supposed to be 4 times better than Healing, and not have it's useage limitations to boot, at a lower level of Quantum.

And if you want to get seriously absurd in theory Attune 5 would let you use Q-Vamp on someone else.

[SkyLion]

As I recall, with Healing 1q buys you one level of Bashing or Lethal Healing, and the Healer is limited to Healing the number of dots in Healing (for Lethal) or twice that (for Bashing). Aggravated is 3x that.

Regen also does 1 or 1 (or 3x for Agg), but is limited to mega-stamina per round and also limited to yourself.

,,

Er...so i admit I was mistaken. Thanks.

,,

Q-Vamp isn't supposed to be 4 times better than Healing, and not have it's useage limitations to boot, at a lower level of Quantum.

,,

No, though I still think its funny that it should cause real damage to the target but not really heal...I suppose you could say that someting is lost via entropy in the translation...

,,

And if you want to get seriously absurd in theory Attune 5 would let you use Q-Vamp on someone else.

,,

Do you mean attune them to heal them by robbing from someone else (like rogue sapping wolverine for health and then giving it to someone she is attuned to and then wolvie just heals)?

[Alex Green]

No, though I still think its funny that it should cause real damage to the target but not really heal...I suppose you could say that someting is lost via entropy in the translation...

I've had this power in combo with a high Stamina, and it does let you heal *much* faster because you're always healing Bruised.,,

Do you mean attune them to heal them by robbing from someone else (like rogue sapping wolverine for health and then giving it to someone she is attuned to and then wolvie just heals)?

I mean, if you can attune someone you can use your powers on their body as though their body were "you".

With a Strength of 1 you can still fly with a 100kg man because you don't need to lift him, Flight does that for you.

Q-Vampire lets you add Life levels to yourself. Obviously the ST could say 'no', but, in theory, if you have attune 5 then other people can be considered "you".

[SkyLion]

but those levels will fade no? (which is why I am confused...normally the stole power/attribute gradually returns...but the book rules made an exception for health levels, making them actual damage. I think its the inconsistency of the rules that leads us to confusion and debate...)

[BlueNinja]

but those levels will fade no? (which is why I am confused...normally the stole power/attribute gradually returns...but the book rules made an exception for health levels, making them actual damage. I think its the inconsistency of the rules that leads us to confusion and debate...)

Let's say you've taken enough Bashing damage to drop you to Injured. You then Q-Vamp up three health levels. That will make all of your damage heal at the time for Bruised health levels - which, for a nova with no mega-stamina, IIRC is under an hour. So before your first health level goes away, you've healed up that point of damage.

[SkyLion]

Let's say you've taken enough Bashing damage to drop you to Injured. You then Q-Vamp up three health levels. That will make all of your damage heal at the time for Bruised health levels - which, for a nova with no mega-stamina, IIRC is under an hour. So before your first health level goes away, you've healed up that point of damage.

,,

Whoa! ::ohmy I never looked at it that way!!!

[Alex Green]

but those levels will fade no? (which is why I am confused...normally the stole power/attribute gradually returns...but the book rules made an exception for health levels, making them actual damage. I think its the inconsistency of the rules that leads us to confusion and debate...)

Fair enough...

(page 220) "A nova may ... steal ... (health levels) from his victim... The target takes automatic bashing damage, while the nova gains "Bruised" health levels. .... gaining life-force (extra health levels) normally. Damage inflicted by Q-Vamp is treated as normal damage and may be healed normally; this does not affect the vampiric nova's stolen health levels.

There is no Duration given for this aspect of the power. The general power's duration is "Special", by which they mean, "one hour per dot" (page 219).

If the duration on the stolen life levels is Perm, then you have a situation where the Vampire could steal a practically unlimited number of life levels. I don't think anyone wants that. So it the Duration isn't Perm, and it isn't one hour per dot, then what should it be?

Something else I'll point out, damage doesn't make stolen life levels just go away. You still have them. They are extra life levels, and extra life levels are useful.

[SkyLion]

Fair enough...

(page 220) "A nova may ... steal ... (health levels) from his victim... The target takes automatic bashing damage, while the nova gains "Bruised" health levels. .... gaining life-force (extra health levels) normally. Damage inflicted by Q-Vamp is treated as normal damage and may be healed normally; this does not affect the vampiric nova's stolen health levels.

There is no Duration given for this aspect of the power. The general power's duration is "Special", by which they mean, "one hour per dot" (page 219).

If the duration on the stolen life levels is Perm, then you have a situation where the Vampire could steal a practically unlimited number of life levels. I don't think anyone wants that. So it the Duration isn't Perm, and it isn't one hour per dot, then what should it be?

Something else I'll point out, damage doesn't make stolen life levels just go away. You still have them. They are extra life levels, and extra life levels are useful.

,,

I agree that no one wants the unlimited levels....thats why I thought maybe they would actually heal you (again 1 bashing, 2 for 1 lethal or 3 for one agg if allowed) up to your normal healthy limit and that excess would fade after an hour per dot like normal.

,,

And it was my understanding that if you stole three bruised levels and then took three damage...they would come off the stolen ones first.

[Alex Green]

And it was my understanding that if you stole three bruised levels and then took three damage...they would come off the stolen ones first.

They do. The problem is you still have +3 Health levels and you also still have +3 damage, and eventually the effect will wear off.

[SkyLion]

They do. The problem is you still have +3 Health levels and you also still have +3 damage, and eventually the effect will wear off.

,,

I dont buy that...just like I dont buy the growth exlanation (which was poorly thought out)

,,

If the health levels gained heal you up to normal and then excess wear off after an hour...OR they just get burned up by taking damage. You wouldnt take damage twice...

[Alex Green]

I dont buy that...just like I dont buy the growth exlanation (which was poorly thought out),,

If the health levels gained heal you up to normal and then excess wear off after an hour...OR they just get burned up by taking damage. You wouldnt take damage twice...

It's already doing unsoakable damage that can ONLY be fully resisted with Mega-Stamina 5. ::wacko

Wanting it to be 4 times better than Healing at the same time seems a bit much... especially without specific verbage.

[SkyLion]

It's already doing unsoakable damage that can ONLY be fully resisted with Mega-Stamina 5. ::wacko

Wanting it to be 4 times better than Healing at the same time seems a bit much... especially without specific verbage.

,,

Actually the damage is not "unsoakable." Its a life force attack resisted by willpower.

,,

How is this for specific verbiage:

,,

Helath levels taken by Q-vamp are treated as normal damage and must be healed normally. These levels may heal the vampire up to their normal healthy limit. Health levels over this limit fade either after 1 hour per dot in power or until they are damaged by an attack, whichever happens first.

[Alex Green]

Actually the damage is not "unsoakable." Its a life force attack resisted by willpower.

It is unsoakable, as a resisted attack, nothing gives soak for it. And it's resisted by willpower or Resistance, which ever is higher.

How is this for specific verbiage:,,

Helath levels taken by Q-vamp are treated as normal damage and must be healed normally. These levels may heal the vampire up to their normal healthy limit. Health levels over this limit fade either after 1 hour per dot in power or until they are damaged by an attack, whichever happens first.

Are you suggesting this as a house rule? If so, why? Q-Vamp is already very powerful.

[metaphysician]

I think his first point was that, while you can't soak Q-Vamp, you do get a form of resistance. Thus, saying its unsoakable damage is accurate but irrelevant, just like if you were talking about, say, Domination.

Also, the fact that you can resist it with Resistance puts it huge step up over alot of resisted powers, as that means Mega Stamina is applicable. Plus, Resistance is a minimum of 3 for novas.

Now, the powers that are resisted by Quantum + Node, *those* are the real killers. The most expensive trait in the game, plus a trait with some really nasty side effects, neither of which is a mega dice, and with no canon defensive power to boot. Ouch.

[Alex Green]

I think his first point was that, while you can't soak Q-Vamp, you do get a form of resistance. Thus, saying its unsoakable damage is accurate but irrelevant, just like if you were talking about, say, Domination.

If I need to slap down the calculator to try to figure out whether or not it could be used to kill Pax, then the relevance of it's lack of soak becomes more apparent. Against Pax BTW it does 0.7 health levels in damage per attack, that doesn't sound like much but it's much more than zero... and again indicates that this is a very powerful effect even without giving it (Healing + Mastery) in addition.

Continueing with Pax, if the Vamp were to get another 2 dots of this attack and the "Burning" extra then the damage rises to an average of 4.5. However megas are quirky and on a good roll he might be doing more like 12.5 (5 succ over and above Pax, x 2.5 for Burning).

If we go to 5 dots of the QVamp+Burning then he averages 8, but again on a good roll that increases dramatically (5 succ go to 17.5 damage).

And yes, if you want we can talk about what Domination would do to Pax. But Pax is a Stamina Brick with Q6 and Mastery. Basically he is built to prevent this sort of thing, and his defenses aren't enough. Again, this is a very strong effect.

[SkyLion]

Are you suggesting this as a house rule? If so, why? Q-Vamp is already very powerful.

,,

I am suggesting it as a house rule. Why? Becasue as is it seems kind of stupid and doesn't make sense. You are suposed to be vamping someones life force and it casues real damage. If it causes real damage in the transfer it should heal real damage. This also puts it more in line with Rogue and other comic figures that drain life force, as they have been known to heal themselves by sapping on somenone else.

,,

And having excess levels be taken off by damage or just fading after the time limit makes perfect sense.

,,

If the extra health levels dont absorb damage then tit just seems stupid and why bother draining extra health levels?

,,

As is I believe I presented a rather elegant fix for a poorly thought out/written power that makes its own exception not only fit itself properly but also makes sense within the context of what we are simulating in the virtual realm, which is again, litterally vampiring someones life force.

[Alex Green]

This also puts it more in line with Rogue and other comic figures that drain life force, as they have been known to heal themselves by sapping on somenone else.

Rogue at least does this by grabbing Wolverine's Healing factor (although it's been a while since I've read X-men).

If the extra health levels dont absorb damage then tit just seems stupid and why bother draining extra health levels?

I've used this to save my character by moving damage up the chart to heal in a sane amount of time. Considering you ususally find it with Stamina Bricks it's fairly effective... although it was more than a little nerve wrecking knowing the character was walking around with 9+ levels of lethal damage waiting for him. He was able to keep healing the lethal damage as "Bruised" which as I recall took about 2 hours per level, so basically he had to keep using the Vamp power and hope he didn't run out of juice.

[SkyLion]

Rogue at least does this by grabbing Wolverine's Healing factor (although it's been a while since I've read X-men).

I've used this to save my character by moving damage up the chart to heal in a sane amount of time. Considering you ususally find it with Stamina Bricks it's fairly effective... although it was more than a little nerve wrecking knowing the character was walking around with 9+ levels of lethal damage waiting for him. He was able to keep healing the lethal damage as "Bruised" which as I recall took about 2 hours per level, so basically he had to keep using the Vamp power and hope he didn't run out of juice.

,,,,

See thats where I think its poorly thought out. Sorry you got hit with that anxiety attack but if it were my game and the person who got vamped wasnt just going to recover I would have let their life force heal you up to your maximum.

I think its dangerous to argue the semantics of rules in a game with such inconsistent rules to begin with.

We need to look at what the power says it does in the game world context to get to an appropriate ruling....

IOW the rules are supposed to simulate what is actually going on....life stealing.

,,

Sorry if I sound redundant, its just that from the perspective of what the power claims is happening its just so obviously clear to me what the fix is.

[Alex Green]

Obviously we are going round robin on this (Which means it ST ruling time), but...

But the power doesn't say it can heal, and letting it have Mastery Level Healing is highly suspect for a level 2, Q-min 3 power.

The theme is definately there. The mechanics are not.

[SkyLion]

Obviously we are going round robin on this, but...

But the power doesn't say it can heal, and letting it have Mastery Level Healing is highly suspect for a level 2, Q-min 3 power.

The theme is definately there. The mechanics are not.

,,

Mastery level healing works on others...w/o Attune 5 you couldnt use Q-Vamp to heal someone else...

,,

And you are overlooking the rather *huge* drawback that to use this power the way I am saying to heal yourself (unlike the Healing power) you are hurting/killing someone else...

[Alex Green]

How did you take that much damage in the first place? Combat? So chances are good you have an enemy around, correct?

And keep in mind this is supposed to be a combat power used to kill people. That's the entire point of the power. What other combat powers that are intended to kill people also have Mastery Level Healing?

And this would still be level 2. If you really wanted to be sick, you could slap "Area" on that, and run around with *hundreds* of extra health levels, and then burn them off for hundreds of quantum.

Are we broken yet? Especially in comparison with the L3 Q-min 4 power Healing which can only be used once a scene?

[SkyLion]

Hmmm...Q-vamp+Area....I like the way you think Alex! ::devil

,,

I *do* see your point. I suggest a fix...In order for the life levels stolen to actually heal it becomes a level 3 power with a q min of 4, like healing. We can even just make Q-vamp (health) its own power (which it already kinda is) and call it Life-Leech or something similar. Maybe put similar cap on healing or better yet, make it like absorbtion where you have to pay a q-point for each health level absorbed. Also like absorbtion, excess levels gained over the normal maximum fade at the rate of 1 per (quantum+power rating turns).

,,

And since these are real permanent health levels being stolen you *could* burn the excess as in dying for power. This wouldnt be too broken since you paid a point per level gained...

,,

example:

,,

Vampire was down three health levels. Vamps somone for 5. pays 8 quantum points to do so (3 to activate the L3 power and 5 to absorb). Vampire temporarily has +2 levels. He may either keep them and they would "soak" the next hit that did 3 damage (making him down 1 off his own health) or burn them both for +4 quantum points, so he the vamp is still down 4 net points for 1 use of the power...which is how much you would pay for a level 4 power so it seems balanced.

,,

How does that sound? Now that I am inventing powers feedback is definitly appreciated! ::biggrin

[SkyLion]

Okay. So I was thinking more and thought it would be good to have a more extreme example of what this Life Leech power would do as I had written it.

,,

So say you got a great roll and they had a crappy resistance roll....lets say that you were already at full health and then leeched 10 extra life levels (levels healed up to your normal maximum full health...if burned for quantum would be as harsh as burning your normal health).

,,

So here you are...the person you just leeched is either dead or dying and you feel great with a temporary influx of 10 extra bruised levels. You paid 13 quantum to activate the power and absorb them. Then you burn all 10 for quantum and gain 20 quantum. Net gain 7 quantum. This is in line with a Q5/Q Leech 2 Attack (Q-leech being a level 2 power mind you, but it only costs 1 to activate....this proposal is a full on L3 power. in addition, unlike q-leech you can resist with either WP OR Stamina+Resistance. As a further balancing measure I would like to add that the expediture of a WP point would negate a single use of this power, simulating a person who is exerting all the force of their soul to not be drained...)

,,

Im not sure if this is excessive or not. I considered making it so that its weaker than the usual dying for power so you only get 1 quantum per life level burned but then its not useful as according to the way I based it off of absorbtion, you are paying 1 point per level so gaining 1 point back would just leave you at square 1, actually less because you are down 3 from just activating it...

,,

Id like to find a non-broken balanced way to use Q-vamp to "die for power" via the life force...only its someone elses life force and they do the "dying."

,,

Still awaiting feedback...

[Alex Green]

There actually is a way to do this, all of this, without needing to re-invent and balance all of the rules about Healing.

Q-Vamp(Health) (purchased normally, does the usual things, can even be used by itself.)

Healing (Weakness: -2 Needs Q-Vamp to work; Weakness: -1 Max effect limited to Q-Vamp)

This allows you to heal other people (transfer heal from one person to another).

With a -3 weakness you could put an extra on it, RQC being the most useful.

Since we are using existing rules we just take Healing's Q-min and other attributes.

And expecting someone else to do the dying so that you can use your powers is probably fairly broken, but if you really wanted you could add Q-Leech to this.

[SkyLion]

only 2. problems with your idea...(no offesnse)...that make it untenable and *not* actually what I was going for...

,,

1.) healing can only be used once per scene/per target...so its no good for vamping effects that can be donoe several times/round. Additionally Healing has a low cap on how many levels you can heal (assuming lethal then only 1 level per dot) so you would have to have *really* high levels of healing to make it actually work the way you say with the vampire. This still doesnt overcome the once per secene limit though.

,,

2.) I think its an ingenious and fiendish idea to burn someone else's lifeforce for quantum. However, as I pointed out to BN, linking Q-leech definitley does NOT work since only Novas have quantum to leech.

,,

If a Nova can burn their own life essence for quantum, a quantum vampire should be able to drain baselines of essence and burn it instead. ::devil

,,

devilish I know...

I thought my version of Life leech was a fairly elegant solution. I STILL await comment on it...

[Alex Green]

I thought my version of Life leech was a fairly elegant solution. I STILL await comment on it...

Not very well defined. What you have are vague notes about making a power that combines all the effects of Q-Leech (useable against baselines), Healing (without Healings limits about per scene, per dot, or even quantum cost), & Q-Vampire. ::huh

I'm guessing the Q-min for this is going to be kind of high. ::devil

What you have is a theme description, not an idea for a single power.

[SkyLion]

Not very well defined. What you have are vague notes about making a power that combines all the effects of Q-Leech (useable against baselines), Healing (without Healings limits about per scene, per dot, or even quantum cost), & Q-Vampire. ::huh

I'm guessing the Q-min for this is going to be kind of high. ::devil

What you have is a theme description, not an idea for a single power.

,,

um....let me post it again for ya there...

,,

Its actually more like combining Q-vamp health with the absorbtion mechanic, and then using the levels gained for a standard "dying for power"

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I suggested a Q-min of 4 and making it an L3 power....or didnt you read my whole post???

,,

Here it is AGAIN!

,,

In order for the life levels stolen to actually heal it becomes a level 3 power with a q min of 4, like healing. We can even just make Q-vamp (health) its own power (which it already kinda is) and call it Life-Leech or something similar. Maybe put similar cap on healing or better yet, make it like absorbtion where you have to pay a q-point for each health level absorbed. Also like absorbtion, excess levels gained over the normal maximum fade at the rate of 1 per (quantum+power rating turns).

,,

And since these are real permanent health levels being stolen you *could* burn the excess as in dying for power. This wouldnt be too broken since you paid a point per level gained...

,,

example:

,,

Vampire was down three health levels. Vamps somone for 5. pays 8 quantum points to do so (3 to activate the L3 power and 5 to absorb). Vampire temporarily has +2 levels. He may either keep them and they would "soak" the next hit that did 3 damage (making him down 1 off his own health) or burn them both for +4 quantum points, so he the vamp is still down 4 net points for 1 use of the power...which is how much you would pay for a level 4 power so it seems balanced.

,,

Okay. So I was thinking more and thought it would be good to have a more extreme example of what this Life Leech power would do as I had written it.

,,

So say you got a great roll and they had a crappy resistance roll....lets say that you were already at full health and then leeched 10 extra life levels (levels healed up to your normal maximum full health...if burned for quantum would be as harsh as burning your normal health).

,,

So here you are...the person you just leeched is either dead or dying and you feel great with a temporary influx of 10 extra bruised levels. You paid 13 quantum to activate the power and absorb them. Then you burn all 10 for quantum and gain 20 quantum. Net gain 7 quantum. This is in line with a Q5/Q Leech 2 Attack (Q-leech being a level 2 power mind you, but it only costs 1 to activate....this proposal is a full on L3 power. in addition, unlike q-leech you can resist with either WP OR Stamina+Resistance. As a further balancing measure I would like to add that the expediture of a WP point would negate a single use of this power, simulating a person who is exerting all the force of their soul to not be drained...)

,,

Im not sure if this is excessive or not. I considered making it so that its weaker than the usual dying for power so you only get 1 quantum per life level burned but then its not useful as according to the way I based it off of absorbtion, you are paying 1 point per level so gaining 1 point back would just leave you at square 1, actually less because you are down 3 from just activating it...

[Alex Green]

then using the levels gained for a standard "dying for power"

The side effect of dying for power is it leaves you with close to Aggravated injuries. Since you aren't doing that, this isn't using the "standard" rules.

General overview: This power does healing, Boost(Health Levels), Q-Leech, and maybe Quantum Regeneration.

OK, let's do the math: Vamp spends 3 q (for the power) and 7q for 7 life levels.

Vamp: Spent 10q.

Effect: +7 life levels OR +14 juice.

And the system breaks right there as you just invented a perpetual motion machine that gives Vamp infinite life, healing, and quantum.

[BlueNinja]

And the system breaks right there as you just invented a perpetual motion machine that gives Vamp infinite life, healing, and quantum.

Give it the Node Spark hamstring - every 1 rolled inflicts temporary taint.

[SkyLion]

then using the levels gained for a standard "dying for power"

The side effect of dying for power is it leaves you with close to Aggravated injuries. Since you aren't doing that, this isn't using the "standard" rules.

General overview: This power does healing, Boost(Health Levels), Q-Leech, and maybe Quantum Regeneration.

OK, let's do the math: Vamp spends 3 q (for the power) and 7q for 7 life levels.

Vamp: Spent 10q.

Effect: +7 life levels OR +14 juice.

And the system breaks right there as you just invented a perpetual motion machine that gives Vamp infinite life, healing, and quantum.

,,

,,

net gain: 4 quantum points...which is what I was going for when I thought of it.

,,

and its not perpetual...it requires fuel... ::devil

[Psilord]

On QV healing a nova; what about this?

QV Extra: Healing

Health levels stolen from a target may be used to heal the nova, under the following strictures:

*A nova may not use more stolen health levels for healing in a single activation than he has dots in Node.

*A nova must pay an additional quantum point for each level of health stolen to be used for healing.

*A nova may not heal beyond his normal maximum health levels.

*Bashing levels are healed 1:1, lethal at 2:1 and aggrivated at 3:1.

[SkyLion]

Sounds great to me!

,,

You could still steal over your limit though right?

[Psilord]

You could still steal over your limit though right?

Yes, but keep the following in mind:

Your healing is limited by Node. If you have Node 2 you could possibly heal 2 bashing levels or 1 lethal level, but no agg level. This limit per activation applies no matter how may health levels you manage to vamp at once.

Also kepp in mind that you are expending additional quantum, 2 additional QP in the above example. I personally would never allow excess (over limit) health levels to be burned for power.

So, with Node 2 it would take 3 QP just to activate QV (remember that adding the extra raises the level of the power). Then you would have to spend 2 more QP to do some healing, for a total of 5 QP to do this.

Also, as an afterthought....

Since Aberrant demands that any extra added to a power MUST be used; I would say that if the nova is suffering from any damage then he MUST spend additional QP and heal what he can whenever using QV.