Aberrant RPG - Ethics and the Teragen

[Sphere]

It's obvious that baseline culture is better than monkey culture!?

It's not really appropriate to compare the two unfortunately. There is no such thing as one specific human culture. Also any specific human culture you use as an example is so much more complicated than a primate one. Even in the most non-technological human society (ie stone-age tribes) the level of intelligence and the use of language separates us from other primate societies. (Note: I accept that chimps can be taught basic language skills via Sign Language, however they do not use a demonstratable language in their natural state).

You can compare and contrast between two different human cultures however. As they are at the same level of complexity.

The Teragen are trying to create a post-human civilisation. What hampers them is the fact that (MZ-Node aside) they are all human in a social sense. They are first-generation Novas all of whom have been raised by and within baseline society. They cannot help but draw from that when they try to create their own society.

Now there are certain rules that must develop within a society in order to maintain it's stability. For instance unprovoked murder tends to be made illegal within the normal operation of a society. Why? Because killing others for no reason makes for a very small population, and killers would be the only ones who survived to breed so the society would be dead after a few generations. So it stands to reason that any society human or otherwise should include this in their "legal framework" (for want of a better term).

This "no-killing" rule is not just present in human civilisation, it is present in countless no-human societies as well. Herd animals have ritualised combat using horns/antlers/tusks. Pack animals such as wolves and chimpanzees tend to fight to submission.

The Teragen currently sanctions unprovoked murder. Epoch hunts and murders those he considers "weak", he does this under the guise of being an Elite (extremely hippocritical considering the opinion Terats have for most elites). Geryon's good friends with Epoch yet the leader of Nova Vigilance sees no reason to protect Novas from his good buddy's bloodlust.

[Alex Green]

There is a way to compare otherwise unalike societies.

"Without knowing your role in society, which society would you choose to be a member of?"

I won't bother with Monkeys (no medical care, get eaten in your old age, etc). But there are two others we were talking about.

1) Rule by law.

2) Rule by might.

In a rule by might society it really sucks to not be at the top, and the vast majority of people aren't.

[Finbar]

1) Monkey Analogy: Good insult, bad analogy. If nothing else, humans aren't scared of even a mass of monkeys; the Teragen are scared of a mass of humans. Most Novas (including Teragen) are well aware that a sniper can take out most of them; throw in HEAP rounds, and that makes a very small number of them that would survive a mass assualt by humans. Especially wth d20 rules ::biggrin ...

2) Lack of Progress: I don't see it. I see a lot of social progress, if for no other reason than the lowest people on the totem pole can disagree with those on the highest and still walk. If some emergency happens, there's an outpouring to solve it, even if the victim is an enemy. Heck, even crime is measured in per 10,000, instead of it being something you could count on.

You can call it naive, but the facts do seem to support that there has been progress...

3) Mal: He's starting to seem more and more like Hitler. He supports the rule of might, destruction of the weak, and a cult of personality based on himself. I'm not sure when he became so powerful that he forgot history, and figured that he could go the "I am God" route, but it is obvious that it has happened.

Something to consider re: Night of Knives: If he could turn of Pax' power, then why not do it to someone who is an obvious problem? Why is death an answer when an a more effective method is available? Why risk your shining lights in gladitorial combat? Why focus all that power on mere combat when it could be used to enlighten the world through art, science, and exploration? I'm just not seeing it the evoluton...unless, for all his pretensions to enlightenment, he just wants to see a lot of blood. And that's more Hitler than Buddha...

As for the Teragen in general, it seems that too many are still at the Right of Might stage of their development, and the need to be more powerful than your enemy rather than enjoying your powers and fully exploring what you can do with them, and that those that do explore their powers are made fun of by those who are more into combat.

Bottom Line: I'm seeing more politics for the sake of power than making sure that everyone can evolve....

FR

[Bahamut810]

1. You are still looking at things as they are now. You need to think about them when Homosapient kind first were seperate from our common ansestor. There were a lot more of them then there was of us. Im sure when there was the first 'man tribe' it would have been easy for the monkies to overrun and kill us, we were just lucky. The best way to think of it is with the nova's. There is not going to be a significant population for a long time. They, as a species, will be on the ropes for a long while (Trinity era).

2. Sure there is some social progress. Many people do have more rights now (in first world countries) then they have in the past. But there is no way you can deny that there is a might makes right attitude in the world.

Look at all the dictators, the ethnic purgings. Heck, look at the united states. Right now we are flying in the face of everything at our leasure. We attack countries for their oil (oh yea, and to force...errr...give them democracy). We torture people without a care (Well...we give metals to the people in charge). They lie to the general population to get them to go with what they want (remember the WMD's?). No one is really willing to stand up to us in a meaningful way. Heck...so far the biggest group to oppose us is in Iraq, and they had to be invaded and told to (bring 'em on!).

Sure in the united states, england and in much of europe they have many rights that they take for granted. The rest of the world, the government rules. Because the government as the might. They censor people. They kill people who disagree with them. Ill admit most people dont disagree, but they know what will happen.

3. He is going the might makes right way. But thats the only 'culture' that teregen has. He is holding to the standards that many nova's have made for themselves. Yes he could take the 'turn 'em off' route, but thats not what that culture would do. Their culture would burn up everyone who disagreed with them.

If the 'culture' was leaning more towards culture and art, im sure he would have encouraged that. But with the elite culture, all the violence that the teregen has done, all the combat (physical, social and intellectual) that goes on...he is just going with the culture.

Im sure there may have been some impacients on his part (He has been waiting for 100 years, and thats a long time for a guy who started out with a lifespan of 75~80 years). He has been thinking about this the entire time. He has probably been watching this (even from his chrislis). Even if he couldent during his chrysalis, then he can 'watch the playbacks' with his powers. He is probably one of the smartest, if not the smartest man on the planet earth. He was a cultured man 'back in the day'. Im sure that he would have enjoyed being able to go to a nova made opera, in a nova made opera house, in a nova made city, in a nova made country...but that was not to be. Nova's were too much like their ansestors and looked for too much with the least amount of work (which happens to be a mercenary gig).

[Alex Green]

1.  You are still looking at things as they are now.  You need to think about them when Homosapient kind first were separate from our common ancestor.  There were a lot more of them then there was of us.  I’m sure when there was the first 'man tribe' it would have been easy for the monkies to overrun and kill us, we were just lucky.

The previous race wasn’t destroyed by us, they evolved into us. Most likely our two races never met. If you want a mechanism, what likely happened is for many generations the women chose as mates the males who were smartest (most social adept, most successful, etc).

Genetic research has shown that the Neanderthals weren’t our ancestors, they were basically our cousins. And our two races co-existed for a long time, 10’s of thousands of years. Different species can co-exist easier than different races, as an example modern man doesn’t make any effort to kill off monkeys because they don’t compete with us for mates or resources.

Novas aren’t a different species. They are (at best) a different race. As such our two races still have a great deal in common, thus the friction.

2.  Sure there is some social progress.  Many people do have more rights now (in first world countries) then they have in the past.  But there is no way you can deny that there is a might makes right attitude in the world.

Look at all…

You are giving as examples the exceptions. What is noteworthy is they are exceptions. Genocide is the exception, not the rule. The idea of “dictatorship” is dying. The use of torture generates repugnance and arrests.

The world used to be a much more dangerous place. The world used to be a much more un-social un-civil place. Just because the ideas are still around doesn’t mean they are generally still practiced. As the world becomes richer it’s members become more peaceful and they also demand a role in choosing what happens to them. This is a trend that has been going on for a long time and shows no sign of changing.

3.  He is going the might makes right way.  But thats the only 'culture' that teregen has.  He is holding to the standards that many nova's have made for themselves.  Yes he could take the 'turn 'em off' route, but thats not what that culture would do.  Their culture would burn up everyone who disagreed with them.

Most of the Teragen’s culture has been created by Mal. Mal is the one molding the Teragen into an army. Mal is the one encouraging people to gain aberrations so they can be like him. Mal isn’t “just going with” the culture. Mal is actively encouraging the violence, etc. Ironically that doesn’t mean he wanted the violence and the social backwardness (see below).

Presumably he is doing this to end his isolation, but it has to be said that with his massive social negatives, massive Mega-Int intellect (M-Int = 8), and probable multiple insanities, I seriously doubt anyone can understand Mal.

One of the big problems with the entire situation is Mal isn’t a competent leader. He wins because he can’t lose, and he defines his victory conditions after they happen. But when you look at things were we know what he was trying to do (aka convert Pax), neither the reasoning nor the outcome is impressive. Again this probably is a result of his massive social penalties and multiple insanities. Not only can we not understand him, but he can’t understand us.

[metaphysician]

I tend to think this is all a consequence of Mercer's talks with him back in the Adventure era.

Remember the paired letters that ended the story section of Adventure? Mercer, in them, seems to think that WWII, and all the attendant death and destruction, was necessary for human development.

My take is, eventually Donighal got convinced Mercer was right. Hence his relative unconcern to the harm caused by his establishing the Teragen. After all, if humans can only grow and develop through destruction and death, then until the novas have truly become something more than human, presumably they only can grow such as well.

[Finbar]

You're sorta looking at it wrong: Mal didn't want them to grow to be something more than human, but something other than human. He saw the flaws in the way humans thought, and hoped his children would be better than that...

FR

[metaphysician]

You're sorta looking at it wrong: Mal didn't want them to grow to be something more than human, but something other than human. He saw the flaws in the way humans thought, and hoped his children would be better than that...

FR

Point, but to some extent semantic. Mal wanted novas to be different than humans in qualitative ways ( including, IMO, not needing massive bloodshed to learn lessons in behavior ), but still has to deal with the fact that all current novas were humans, and still think like humans and act like humans.

[Finbar]

Not for long...

FR