Star Wars: The New Sith Empire - Star Wars: OOC Thread

[Stargaizer]

Hopefully this will be the last round of combat, and then I can rejoin you guys.

Come on, 13VP & 2 Stormies, shouldn't be that difficult... right?

Unless Dave would let me roll up and shoot the last stormtrooper in the back...? *grins*

[Akira]

I am here, busy but watching. Just waiting on he other two to post.

2 questions though. Is Akira still suffering from the Fear? And did the Disciple surrender?

[Dave ST]

No, she is not under the affect of the Fear anymore.

I didn't add anywhere in the Disciple's action that he surrendered.

[Akira]

Thanks, had to ask since I wasn't sure.

[Dave ST]

No harm in askin'.

[Serena McCoy]

Dave - should I go ahead and post without Fox? It's been three days since your update and he hasn't posted yet. I was holding off since we're in the same encounter, but I figure I'd better check w/you at this point.

[Dave ST]

24 hour rule is in effect. I hate to skip people, but we all know sometimes life gets a hold of us. I'm sure he'll understand.

[Mr Fox]

Oops... just realized I posted under the Fox account last night instead of Jedi. Hopefully no one was confused.

[Dave ST]

Hey, Akira...

"Killing him while he was armed and still fighting would have been justified and less dangerous than trying to question one of his power."

"You can tie his hands behind his back. Then fashion a bag over his head from this one's cloak and use the liquid rope fashion a draw string of sorts to pull it closed. Connect the draw string to his bound wrists and he won't struggle too much unless he wants to strangle himself."

Neither of those actions are particularly 'Jedi-like'. Suggesting it would have been better to kill the guy over questioning him or implying that the man be bound in a way that would strangle him are how Sith operate, not Jedi.

I'm not nagging, nor calling you out on anything. This is just a simple observation and polite warning from the ST that so far in two posts you've leaned toward the Dark Side of thinking twice. This is just a nudge, I do it for Paladins in D&D to help them not to accidentally make a mistake but in the end you are free to RP Akira in any manner you choose.

Besides, if the guy wanted to kill himself he'd break the capsule in his tooth and ingest the poison in it.

[Akira]

No problem Dave. I understand, but I was thinking this version was more gritty and gray that the original movies. If it is not, better tell me now so I can fix my thinking.

Also to me, saying something and acting are two different things. I need to know if you award DSP for what people say. I was assuming not, but I had better be sure.

Neither thing she said was inherently evil and not necessarily what she would have done if the decision were up to her. In my head it was practical advice given without emotion, but I see your point, not necessarily jedi-thinking in Yoda's day. But other than dumping the problem on the masters, I didn't come up with anything else.

Lastly, not sure if Akira is truly going to be a goody-goody. Joram may have to work at keeping her in line while they are away from the masters.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Akira

No problem Dave. I understand, but I was thinking this version was more gritty and gray that the original movies. If it is not, better tell me now so I can fix my thinking.

Also to me, saying something and acting are two different things. I need to know if you award DSP for what people say. I was assuming not, but I had better be sure.

The setting is gritty and gray. That doesn't mean the Jedi are. Remember, you have a strict Code that you follow, and in the midst of all the insanity in the galaxy, you, as Jedi, are supposed to be that shining beacon of light (or add to the shadows with your own evil acts, it's up to you).

As far as awarding DSPs for what people say? I'm not going to tell you I haven't done it, but as a rule of thumb I tend to let actions speak a bit more louder than words. We're all allowed to say stupid things in our lives. If Joram loses it and gets into a shouting match with Dari, unless he gets physical or lets his words take a more darker twist, than I see no reason to drop a DSP.

Quote:

Neither thing she said was inherently evil and not necessarily what she would have done if the decision were up to her. In my head it was practical advice given without emotion, but I see your point, not necessarily jedi-thinking in Yoda's day. But other than dumping the problem on the masters, I didn't come up with anything else.

This confused me a bit... she makes the suggestion for them to bind someone in a completely inhumane way, but if they do it that way, she's not responsible because she would have done it differently?

Yeah, you might need to change your thinking. A lack of emotion is not a lack of humanity, nor is it the D&D 'True Neutral' alignment. Thought is as good as deed sometimes, and if they bind the prisoner in the manner she suggests, the responsibility will fall on her head as much as theirs. All will share the blame of treating a prisoner in such a way... in some cases though, people might not care how you treat the captured enemies while others feel they deserve the same rights as anyone else. It can vary by species, culture, and planet.

Quote:

Lastly, not sure if Akira is truly going to be a goody-goody. Joram may have to work at keeping her in line while they are away from the masters.

I'm totally okay with that, just remember that every choice, good or bad, can have a backlash to it. And that's not just for Akira, it goes for any PC.

[Akira]

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

This confused me a bit... she makes the suggestion for them to bind someone in a completely inhumane way, but if they do it that way, she's not responsible because she would have done it differently?

Well I stand by the first post, Akira was asking in a way if Dari actually thought about capturing the dark one or not, while expressing that he is dangerous.

The second one, I am not going to say anything more about it. But I have thought about it after what you have said and I have also considered her next post as well. It may not have been my original plan but I will stick with it.

[Serena McCoy]

After some discussion with Akira, I made a slight modification to the most recent Dari post, altering some of her internal monologue - so if you read the Dari post within the first couple hours of it going up, you might want to re-read it again just in case.

[Serena McCoy]

Rev - Let me know if I need to do any rolling for my wrap-up speech with Dari. I'll modify it tomorrow if need be.

[Stargaizer]

Ok, so who are we waiting on? It's not me, is it?

[Dave ST]

Me I believe. I've been busy, but tomorrow is my day off so a post should be up for you guys.

[Akira]

We haven't heard much from Layel either since the last posts.

Sorry I haven't posted more either since my lame "I am following along" post. I will be AFK for the next 4-5 days so I will hopefully be able to post something meaningful when I return.

[Dave ST]

Quote:

<<Response Stargazer>>
<<Response Master Avi>>
<<Response Anyone>>

I have no idea what the hell all this is.

Also it seems from the way you phrased your post that Akira is doing 'X' action unless 'X' action is not a good choice in which case she's doing 'Y' action instead?

Help me understand.

[Akira]

Those are just OOC separators to clearly indicate IC hooks for others to respond to. With the first one, Stargazer's response is not going to impact the next segment. Not knowing who was going to post next, I didn't want the hooks to be lost after a few other posts have been entered. They can be deleted as they are responded to since they are only to catch the eye and not be forgotten in the rest of the text.

The only conditional part really is the skill Check itself. After the last time, I actually expect Master Avi to tell her "no" so it would not apply. But if she is allowed, I also am not expecting much from the results either. So even if she were able to gain location information on the Sith, she will still say the last part anyway.

Since her last question wasn't directed at anyone in particular, I suppose that would be only answerable by an NPC anyway so that is actually two IC hooks for you unless Dari is posting regarding her father.

But since Stargazer posted, I guess it is your turn, Dave.

[Stargaizer]

So, basically you laid it out to be an either or, right? If the NPC said yes you can, then you do the roll and it's Dave's turn to tell you how well you did. If the NPC said no, then your roll's moot, and you say the last segment. Not so much a 'do x unless y is better', more of a 'ask if I can do x, if yes do x if no do y'. Right?

I've done the same thing myself before, especially when all that it's hinging on is a simple Yes or No from another character. The <<###>> is new though, haven't seen that before.

[Akira]

Yep, that's right. Except after thinking about it when replying OOC, I realized that the last segment is probably valid on a "yes" and a "no". So it can be interpreted as ask to do 'X', if given permission, do it. Unless the results of 'X' are really enlightening, then do 'Y'.

I borrowed the <<##>> from someone else. The visual cue alone helps ensure things aren't lost in the wall of text. Depending on the Forum, << >> or { } are used for quick OOC comments rather than a whole spoiler block (which isn't available on half the other forums I play at).

[Stargaizer]

Other forums? But RPG-Post is the only role playing forum on the entire interwebs... there aren't any other 'forums' for you to 'play at'...

*removes tounge from cheek*

[Akira]

Um, yeah, okay. Star Wars is the only game I play too.

Akira would probably accompany Joram, but I am waiting on Master Avi and any possible results from the See Force check that might happen.

[Akira]

Dave; Wondering about some clarification on the Jedi Trials bit.

Would this impact leveling up to level 6 or is it to reach level 7 and become a Jedi Knight? If how we spent our skill ranks comes into play for the grading, there isn't whole lot we can do about it without getting a level-up to take points in some areas previously neglected.

From what we can do from a strictly role-playing perspective, I am not exactly clear how some of the grading criteria relate. From a meta-gaming stand point it looks clear that everything, except Sound Judgment, could be measured by our skill ranks and the roll of dice, but that is not what I am asking about.

I am thinking about the role-playing aspects of some of the categories, and I am coming up short. Particularly:

- Facility in the Force

- Lightsaber Proficiency

- Self-Defense Capability

Looking at the game mechanics it would appear that we are being graded on our character build as much as anything else, is that the correct impression I am supposed to have? I wouldn't think so, but... dunno.

With respect to the lightsaber construction (which I looked up in the RCR book), somewhere I was thinking we were going to complete this off camera, but I could be mistaken. And success would really comedown to the roll of the dice and time for sufficient meditation and re-rolling failed attempts. So not sure what role-playing will do to change that except using meditation to maximize our chances on the three ability checks (assuming time IC will permit).

Knowledge of the Jedi Code has obvious role-playing applications and I have been using some of them already, having spent no ranks on the skill. So I am wondering if that is what you are looking for, or is Akira going to be criticized again IC because I spent no ranks in a skill. Something which I cannot change until leveling up.

To sum it all up, the only areas I would think we could have significant impact is Knowledge of the Jedi Code while not rolling dice for that skill and Sound Judgment.

[Vivi OOC]

Hey, Akira. Dave's at work, but he okayed my posting here to help resolve some of the issues you've mentioned.

First, you can be a Padawan to 6th level. Before you can become a Jedi Knight at 7th level, you have to pass your Jedi Trials. (Sometimes, exceptionally gifted students can start them earlier, but this is very, very rare.) Constructing your own lightsaber is an example of one of these tasks, which must be completed before you reach 7th level. Some of the most basic tests are administered by a Padawan's master (often without announcing that they're being tested), but these are generally only to establish rudimentary proficiencies.

Second, the trials cannot be passed simply through role-play alone. Some have certain mechanical requirements which must be met, to represent the Padawan's skill in that area. By the time a character is ready for 7th level, they should be completely prepared. If the PC has been built sensibly, they should have no trouble with anything that will be required of them. They may not ace everything with flying colors, but they should at least be able to function as a Jedi.

Third, the criteria he listed were intentionally non-specific, for the reasons he already stated. For clarity's sake, however, I'll quote him:

Originally Posted By: Dave ST

The biggest problem with doing a post describing what you'll need to succeed is that people tend to meta-game. Thus, instead of giving you all your trials at once your PCs will be graded (on a curve) by your Masters from the end of Chapter 1 on out.

These are, in the world of the Jedi and the Force, things your character should be fully capable of handling and understanding. They have trained, studied, and meditated on all of these aspects of the Jedi lifestyle since they were very young. As far as I know, he posted those guidelines so that people would not be caught completely off-guard if/when he referred to them later on.

Fourth, these trials are not arbitrary. They are accounted for in the rules. If a character cannot complete them, it's neither a criticism nor a condemnation. From an IC perspective, the PC simply does not meet the standards of the Order. They are free to pursue whatever endeavors they like, including studying the Force or joining another Force tradition, on their own terms, and without any rancor. Not every Padawan becomes a Jedi, and not every Jedi remains one. From an OOC perspective, the player of such a PC simply did not build a Jedi. They built a Force-sensitive scoundrel, or soldier, or what-have-you. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

I hope that helps! If I'm incorrect on any of the above, I'm sure Dave will correct any misunderstandings or errors on my part when he gets home later this evening.

[Dave ST]

Originally Posted By: Akira

Would this impact leveling up to level 6 or is it to reach level 7 and become a Jedi Knight?

The trials are completed before the PC reaches Level 7. This means that if you fail your trials your 7th Level can not be a Jedi class, it must be something else.

Quote:

If how we spent our skill ranks comes into play for the grading, there isn't whole lot we can do about it without getting a level-up to take points in some areas previously neglected.

Actually not even 1 level will be enough to pick up the slack in some cases. This is intentional and I allowed people to build their PCs how they wanted them. If a PC was designed in a manner that makes them ill suited for the profession they chose, that's on the head of the player.

The reason for this is the very exact point you made... meta-gaming. After 5 levels of Padawan, the Jedi that's been created is a sure sign of the type of person they are. If you don't have ranks in any particular skills then it shows that the PC has had no interest in learning those skills, or shunned the teachings and ignored them... until what?!? Suddenly being told they'll need to X in order to pass Y?

The Jedi Trials are not something I made up. They are mentioned in the movies and also in the books. Every Jedi goes through them, so will the Jedi PCs in this game.

Quote:

From what we can do from a strictly role-playing perspective, I am not exactly clear how some of the grading criteria relate. From a meta-gaming stand point it looks clear that everything, except Sound Judgment, could be measured by our skill ranks and the roll of dice...

You are incorrect. In fact, any dice rolls will be made in secret.

Quote:

I am thinking about the role-playing aspects of some of the categories, and I am coming up short. Particularly:
- Facility in the Force
- Lightsaber Proficiency
- Self-Defense Capability

That's why I handle these things. Let me worry about the details, you guys just save the galaxy and be home before the street lights come on.

Quote:

Looking at the game mechanics it would appear that we are being graded on our character build as much as anything else, is that the correct impression I am supposed to have?

You can have any impression you like. The Jedi's will be graded and what's on the character sheet has a lot to do with that since those statistics as a whole will assist you in passing or failing. It's not about what ranks you have or don't have, since you can still fail anything no matter how good you are. This is why I'm grading on a curve in favor of the PCs. I don't want you to fail, but it can happen.

Quote:

With respect to the lightsaber construction (which I looked up in the RCR book), somewhere I was thinking we were going to complete this off camera, but I could be mistaken. And success would really comedown to the roll of the dice and time for sufficient meditation and re-rolling failed attempts. So not sure what role-playing will do to change that except using meditation to maximize our chances on the three ability checks (assuming time IC will permit).

This is the easiest one, how it became an issue is beyond me. There is a lot of RP involved with the construction of a lightsaber, the fact that you feel it's nothing but die rolls and re-rolls has me rolling my eyes, not dice.

It can be done on or off camera, it will be up to the player of the Jedi making the lightsaber.

Quote:

Knowledge of the Jedi Code has obvious role-playing applications and I have been using some of them already, having spent no ranks on the skill... Something which I cannot change until leveling up.

Good call, now that you think you'll need it, dump skill points into it. Fact is all Jedi know The Jedi Code. So far neither of the Jedi in this game know The Jedi Code, all they seem to do is quote lines of it like children singing a song with out any real idea what the lyrics actually mean.

To prevent skill dumping, which I knew would happen, it will rely more on just your skill ranks. Like perhaps me asking your characters questions that can not be plagiarized from a Wiki with a quick copy and paste...

Quote:

So I am wondering if that is what you are looking for, or is Akira going to be criticized again IC because I spent no ranks in a skill.

This cry baby B.S. need to quit. You don't see Jorum in here worried do you? No. I'll be honest, I don't know if either of you will make it as Jedi, and I don't care. I run Jedi's through the trials, I always have and always will and never tell them until it's too late for a reason... because the stats on that sheet reflect the type of person they are (and as a result the type of Jedi) if a person devoted their life to the Jedi and never bothers to take it seriously and goes for nabbing as much power as they can, then it's reflected in the sheet. If they are lazy and care more for taking the easy way out of things instead of working for what they want, it shows in the sheet. If they are Force-Sensitive but completely inept wit their Force Skills, it shows in the sheet.

It could be the Jedi's fault, or it could be the Master's fault but either way, not all Padawans become Jedis and not all Jedis stay Jedis. I've failed the trials a few times myself in my games (hell, and I designed them!). It happens, I just pushed on. In one instance the Ex-Jedi found a teacher elsewhere and returned to the Temple ready to be a Master. When he got there his old master smiled and proceeded to tell him that his final trial was to never lose faith in himself and to trust in the Force (something my PC had a hard time doing). By doing so, his destiny brought him full circle, ready to take his place amongst the masters of The Order.

Where every story ends, a new one begins. That's the way of things.

Quote:

To sum it all up, the only areas I would think we could have significant impact is Knowledge of the Jedi Code while not rolling dice for that skill and Sound Judgment.

And that's why you should leave it to me.

[Akira]

Thanks. Pretty much answered most of my curiosity.

[Mr Fox]

Quote:

In one instance the Ex-Jedi found a teacher elsewhere and returned to the Temple ready to be a Master. When he got there his old master smiled and proceeded to tell him that his final trial was to never lose faith in himself and to trust in the Force (something my PC had a hard time doing). By doing so, his destiny brought him full circle, ready to take his place amongst the masters of The Order.

Nice! That makes for good story.

[Stargaizer]

Originally Posted By: Jedi

It would live on and if anything it only made Joram's determination to see the Shit fall all the greater.

I'm not for certain, but I think you meant Sith... I'm not usually one to pick on grammar, but I thought you might specifically want to know about this one.

[Mr Fox]

ROFL! Wow, now that was a typo.

[Akira]

Is there anything else going on in the temple to interact with before meeting back at the Jedi ship? Nothing came to mind for me to make up myslef, so I guess I am wondering if Akira (and possibly FX) will see anything of note whole making a circuit and meeting up with Joram and Dari.

BTW, what happened to our 5th player?

[Mr Fox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFL3nwMCao&feature=related

This guy is a good guitarist and does a sweet medley of Star Wars on acoustic guitar.

[Stargaizer]

Ok, Dave, I know you said it would be a bit slow, and I'm fine with that... but any ETA on a post?

[Dave ST]

I'll try and get something soon. My life hasn't really been stable lately and I've found myself with very little, to no time at the computer. Even when I have the time, I just haven't been in the mental state needed to do posts any real justice, my imagination just isn't working.

Hopefully my life with regain some sense sanity soon and I'll give the game the attention it deserves, but right now, I'm doing what I can with what time I have.

I do appreciate the patience.

~D

[Stargaizer]

Not a problem Dave. I've been in similar situations before, I understand.

Thanks for the update.

[Stargaizer]

Any more news?

I'm just hoping that this doesn't go down like Mutant High... I really like R2-FX... oh and you squishy biologicals too.

[Dave ST]

I'm in the process of moving. Once I'm settled and I have internet I should resume posting. When that will be, I don't know. Maybe a few more weeks.

[Stargaizer]

Hope all goes well with the move; I know how much my wife and I hate it.

See you when you get back. Thanks for the update.

[Akira]

Yeah that can suck away your free time. I will be here waiting.

[Dave ST]

Gimme a couple of days to get back in the driver's seat here and catch up and we'll then get this ball rolling again. Everyone still ready to go?