World of Darkness World of Darkness: Attrition - How to Resurrect a Forum in Seven Days

[Frank White]

I just voted for no and really I would have voted for don't care, but that wasn't a choice. I have been wanting to bring Frank back into play and then this happened so whenever this issue gets resolved I'll be waiting.

[Vivi OOC]

I'm sorry, I had to facepalm here. You do realize that arbitrarily voting against it when you had no particular interest in preventing it has resulted in a tie? If you didn't care one way or the other, I would really have preferred, and it would have been more reasonable, to simply state your point and abstain as Max did.

Since that accounts for everyone, as far as I know, and the votes are now tied, I suppose we'll have to think of some other way to resolve the issue. I'll have a talk with the other Mods and see what we can come up with over the next day or two.

[Frank White]

Well if I had been able to see the vote count before voting I probably wouldn't have voted. Also I think there are still a few people who haven't voted, but if no else votes you can remove my vote.

[Dawn OOC]

I believe those others have abstained, Frank. Everyone has essentially spoken, either with a vote or with silence.

[Jess OOC]

OK. With Frank's note of an actual intent to vote "don't care", and with Dawn's decision to leave WoDA, the vote is effectively 5-3 in favour of the reboot proposal. To be honest, over the course of the discussion I've come to see merit in such as well; amazing what a good conversation can do.

[Dawn OOC]

No, wait. That's not right. I don't care if it doesn't tip the scale the way I want it, but don't you DARE discount my vote. This was open to all WoDA players, past and present. You let Oneca's player vote, and Jim was invited to vote. It's 5-4, right?

[Vivi OOC]

Honestly, Dawn, I'm not sure what to do about your vote. The idea was to get people involved in the process of reviving the forum and, hopefully, rekindle interest in those that left and/or awaken in those who hadn't joined yet.

You voted, and your vote helped determine that the reboot was not what a majority of the players wanted. You then decided to leave anyway, before any sort of decision was made, which is a good indication you would not be participating in the forum's "Reconstruction," or whatever we decide to call it.

That was the whole point of this, Dawn, and everyone else reading this. The entire grand plan was to figure out ways to engage players, past and present, and get them involved in the re-creation of the forum. As I said previously, I honestly think our proposal was the best idea for the forum. I really, sincerely do. I also said it wasn't my decision, and if the players didn't want it, we'd do something else, because what I really wanted was for the forum to be active again, for people to be involved, and for them to enjoy themselves.

As far as Oneca is concerned, her posts implied that she would at least consider being involved, whether with this character or another one, depending on what happened.

Jim was asked because he used to play, his input has been missed, and I would have loved to get him involved again, just like the others who have faded out of activity.

On a more personal note, do you honestly believe that someone who votes on the way a forum should be run, but immediately leaves that forum (or was not part of it to begin with, and/or has no intention of rejoining) should have their vote considered? If someone isn't going to contribute anymore, that's fine, but should they have a say in what happens to the people that will?

I'm not asking to be argumentative, because I would honestly like to hear your opinion.

[z021]

I've got to ditto Vivi on this. The only reason I voted was because at the time I was considering playing Oneca depending on how this all settled out. Otherwise, if I'm not playing and not intending on playing, then why should my vote count? I'm not involved.

Now....if you're thinking that there's a chance that you'll want to come back to WoDA with your characters or new ones, then by all means your vote should count. If you're leaving for good, though, it seems rather odd that your opinion on the setup, running, and reconstitution of the board be counted. I'm not saying that the arguments or ideas that you've presented should be wiped or erased or anything, but it'd be like my mother getting to vote on the rules of the Cam.

On the note of all of this, though, it seems like the people that are going to be most active and most involved in WoDA are in favor of the reboot at this point, so I'll go ahead and bow out myself. That'll leave you with a rather clear majority on the vote for the reboot. Have fun, guys!

[Jess OOC]

Dawn, I'm trying to be practical. The direction that the forum takes will affect those who actually play in it. You have stated that you won't play in it anymore. So I don't understand why you would want or expect to have a say in what happens in it.

Am I missing something here? It's entirely possible that I am....

[Vivi OOC]

I'm not 100% sure that we will be going ahead with the reboot, at this point, since there really wasn't a clear majority- even if Dawn's vote were nullified. I really want to be fair about this, in spite of (and possibly, thinking on it, because of) my own strong feelings on the matter.

Whatever we decide, though, I hope that those who are reluctant to get involved now will find something about our improvements to really get involved with and enjoy once things get moving. I want to say "Thank you" personally to all of you for being so patient and so honest throughout all of this, and so willing to engage yourselves in these discussions. So, thank you!

[Dawn OOC]

Just a quick addition: I apologize or my earlier outburst. I had understood that this vote was for all players, past and present, regardless of whether they were planning to play again or not. Since it's not the case, do as you wish with my vote - drop it, drop-kick it... whatever catches your fancy.

And Mala, I think the Cam would be better for M.o.M. getting to vote on it - it'd be cleaner, certainly!

[Jess OOC]

Fair enough, and thanks Dawn. I hope my reply didn't come across as snippy or nasty; such wasn't the intent.

[SalmonMax]

Heh. I hesitated on this, because I didn't want to seem like it was just me following Dawn around, but I suppose that may be inevitable. In any event, I'll be withdrawing from WODA as well. It's not out of anger or boredom, nor any concrete sense that anyone, myself included, did anything 'wrong.' The reasons are several, both internal and external, and I will try to explain as best I can so that there's no misunderstandings or misplaced feelings.

First, I just find myself temperamentally unsuited to these moderated games. I like interaction with a GM that goes beyond rules mechanics and requests for intervention. I like surprises and twists, of the sort that you can't get from stories you make up for yourself. It can be argued that the 'Plot' threads of WODA have these traits, and I would agree. But in all my time playing WODA I've pretty much been in one plot thread...the one with Swara...and that one actually stopped me from quitting earlier. But I recognize now that such threads are not really what the game is about, and I don't in any way hold that against the game. I love reading the various fics and such people produce in it...I'm just not interested in contributing on that level.

Secondly, and this is probably the most petty of my reasons so I'm sneaking it into the middle in the hopes you forget about it by the end of the post, I really ree-HEElly dislike the 'realtime' thing. It bugs me to no end that a Real-Life™ posting delay can cause my character to magically disappear for weeks/months of play...especially when there's nothing much going on in the game either. It's a personal issue on my part, I recognize that. It's probably not entirely rational either, since most of the rest of y'all seem to like it just fine. Just knowing those things doesn't make it any less 'not-fun' for me though.

As for the timing, aka "why now?" all I can say is that in the past I have been inhibited by a sense of obligation. Ariel's been part of the continuity since the start, and that history and background has a weight to it. Then, when I was just about ready to walk away, I got involved in what turned out to be a delightful plot thread, and done near changed my mind entirely. Realizing that such threads were exceptions to the rule diluted that though...and that, combined with the realization that a 'reboot' could lift the weight of Ariel's existence from my shoulders and give everyone a chance to start anew without any responsibility from me to uphold continuity, convinced me the time was now.

And I'll admit, Dawn's leaving influenced me from the standpoint that I liked RP'ing with Amber, and looked forward to meeting August. Those possibilities removed made it easier to quit, but by no means provoked it. I wasn't really relishing the notion of packing up with just Moss and Declan. Not that I dislike their characters, but there's just too much friction there to make me happy.

So there we are. Like I said, there's nothing in the game I'd recommend changing; no mistakes were made. The things I didn't like were personal to me. The things I did like were in the end not enough to keep me going.

I hope y'all continue to have a spectacular gaming experience, and I'll take great pleasure in reading the posts that result from it.

Thanks, everyone.

[Vivi OOC]

With several people backing out of WoDA, either as players or characters, we no longer have sufficient membership to continue.

That being said, we'll discuss our options during the Mod meeting this evening.

[Jess OOC]

Before everyone walks away: the four mods (Dave, Vivi, OTN and I) are going to have a talk tonight. I'm hoping to keep WoDA alive, and will continue to hope that, be it with or without a reboot, with or without any particular character or member or moderator, with or without a recatagorization as ST or ST-Open or whatever.

So don't shut off the lights quite yet.

- Jess

[Jess OOC]

Or, to put it a bit more eloquently (with apologies to Winston Churchill):

I have, myself, full confidence that if all do their duty, if nothing is neglected, and if the best arrangements are made, as they are being made, we shall prove ourselves once more able to defend our WoDA home, to ride out the storm of change, and to outlive the menace of bickering, if necessary for years, if necessary alone.

Even though large parts of WoDA and many old and famous characters have fallen or may fall into the grip of OOC conflict and all the odious lethargy of ennui, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in the fictions, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength beside the Mods, we shall defend our game, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight in the nightclubs, we shall fight in the frat houses and in the streets, we shall fight in the Hollywood Hills; we shall never surrender, and if, which I do not for a moment believe, this game or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our writers beyond the forum, armed and guarded by fanatic will, would carry on the struggle, until, in God's good time, the New Players, with all their power and might, step forth to the rescue and the liberation of the Old.