opnet [OpNet] Who are you?

[Chaos]

I was in chat this evening.

Nothing special about that other than I hadn't done it before, chatted, its just not something I usually do. There were a couple people that asked me questions about what I did, what I meant when I posted something to the threads and what my background was. But the thing that really struck me was someone that said they wanted to know who I was but all they really wanted to know was if I was an "Elite" with a capital E. What really got my attention is the way they made it seem like answering that little question, are you an "Elite", would tell them something about me. Give them some insight into who I really am or what I'm really about. They even made a big deal about it because I wouldn't answer the question the way it was asked. I didn't give them an answer but I did tell them I thought the question was stupid and they should figure out what they wanted to ask me before coming to bother me. It was all every ambiguous and zen but there was other things I could have been more concrete about.

Killing;

Sylvan, I said White Rat was going on a list but that doesn't mean I'm out to kill him. I'd probably think something like that too if I were making opinions after listening to the top tier mercenaries like Long. I don't make threats. Not even veiled threats. The list I was putting White Rat on was the list of people I consider deranged in some way that's dangerous to people around them. He got there by spewing off his thoughts on how, if you're a doctor, you kill microbes and don't shed a tear for the microbe.

He was comparing people to microbes.

Elite(s);

Wi, I'm not an elite with a capital E or otherwise. The word "elite" or "Elite" is packaging and illusion. Its the brand new soap specially formulated to make your whites whiter than white and get out all the nasty stains. So if you need your whites whiter than white its probably the stuff for you but its still just a bunch of chemicals and lots of advertisment dollars put into making you think its something more than a soap.

The Teragen;

Timeslip, I don't care for t-rats, which is what I call terats. I mean it in the exact same way t-rats use words like "zip" and probably in the same tone of voice. As a group, I think t-rats are the nova equivalent of a drunken frat party. If every single one of them went away tomorrow the world might not be any better but I don't see how it could be any worse.

Wi gave me her pedigree as a t-rat all the way through who she's intimate with and who she's friends with. She dropped more names in thirty seconds than a supermodel after an orgy in Orzaiz's stately manor. This is obviously important to her. But for me, t-rats as a group seem like one of those useless social aberrations that crop up in the history of the world. If they didn't have nodes and a multibillion dollar industry like N! keeping the world interested then I'm not sure anyone would care. I'm am sure there's novas that think they've figured out something amazing but personal truth doesn't often mean much when its being told to someone else. That's why its personal truth. I wish them the best in becoming gods are whatever they're working on.

Just stop hijacking the opnet. I want to watch something tonight.

Me;

Yes I use to be a municipal defender in the City of New York. I still live there when I'm in the states. I don't do that anymore. The reason is complicated but its pretty simple to sum up. They didn't really want the job done they hired me to do and I wouldn't do the job they wanted me to do. There's more but... see personal truth above. Knowing more wouldn't change your lives.

Now I do other things. I've even done work as a mercenary as defined by any English dictionary. I haven't burned a village to the ground, killed a baby, toppled a lawful government or raped a woman yet but stick around. I haven't been doing it long.

Being Harsh;

Samhra, you are absolutely right. I'll probably be dead in a ditch sometime in the next year with someone else getting a bigger paycheck for having killed me. How that means a damn thing to Wi or your husband, is beyond me. But you are right. I'm headed for a bad end. After I'm gone you and Wi and the rest can get together and cackle over champaign about what an jerk I was. But I'm not going to creep my way cautiously through life just to arrive safely at death's door.

That would just be stupid.

Sisters;

Long, I know exactly how lucky I was to get away with my life when I faced off against Epoch. So I'm not looking to start anything with you. But if you honestly think I'm going to meekly sit there and listen to a threat, veiled or otherwise, just because you're "Long" then you know nothing at all. Point that gun at the people trying to "americanize" your sister if it gets you off but leave me out of it. I took a cultural development class so nothing your sister said in chat surprised me at all. She's Japanese and you're her brother. Doesn't mean anything to me personally but I understand what it means to her. If it was really bothering you maybe sending Wi a private message to back off would have done the trick. Telling your sister to get out of chat probably would have done the trick too.

If all that was actually about what I said to Timeslip or about t-rats then okay. Tell me why I'm wrong or just kill me and get it over with.

Everything Else;

Jenny Parks and Bloodthorne - thanks for not being insane, transcendental or showing me your pedigree. It was nice to just talk.

So now everyone knows all these things about me. You don't know anything about who I am but those are the breaks. Yeah, I know at least three novas won't care who I am, which means another nine after all their friends and the novas they're screwing chime in, but those are the breaks too.

At least you won't have to worry about whether I'm going to come calling late some night with bad thoughts on my mind.

I won't.

I'm not that screwed up.

[Ptesan-Wi]

A couple of corrections to your monologue, Kid Chaos:

1. I asked, "Are you an elite?" With a small "e". I was trying to learn your line of work. You are the one who tried to turn it into some sort of personality quiz.

2. I mentioned that I am a Terat after you decided to start throwing the term "T-rat" around. I pointed out that my husband, whom you were also deriding, is likewise. I pointed out the same regarding Long, and noted that he is the husband of the original target of your insult (Timeslip). You seem rather confused as to what a Terat is, however. It isn't a member of a social club; it is an adherant to the philosophy of Teras, a philosophy of personal exploration and growth, and we are as varied individually as can be imagined. In fact, your use of the term "T-rat" and summary dismissal of Terats in general is a good deal more the kind of "wrap someone up in a term" fallacy that you got so bent out of shape about than was my simple question of whether or not you are an elite.

You need to get over yourself. A lot.

[z-Silvestru]

Quote:

Orginally posted by Kid Chaos:
Sylvan, I said White Rat was going on a list but that doesn't mean I'm out to kill him. I'd probably think something like that too if I were making opinions after listening to the top tier mercenaries like Long. I don't make threats. Not even veiled threats. The list I was putting White Rat on was the list of people I consider deranged in some way that's dangerous to people around them. He got there by spewing off his thoughts on how, if you're a doctor, you kill microbes and don't shed a tear for the microbe.

He was comparing people to microbes.

Yes, I caught that. The only reason that I haven't argued with him about it is that I currently have enough on my plate and you can't argue with someone like that. Putting him on a personal "Avoid at all costs" list is probably the best way for most of us to deal with him.

As you said in chat, you didn't say you were going to kill him. And as I said in chat, it's been a long week for me, with much pain and death. It's influencing my outlook, I suspect. In part, my question about killing was to clarify if that was your intent, since you had not been specific up to that point. If I offended you, I apologize.

So you're not a stone-cold killer. I'll remember that.

[BlackThorn]

Thank you, Kid Chaos, but the name is Blackthorn, not Bloodthorn. Blackthorn is the actual last name I was born with, so I use it now as my "nova" name. I will keep the rest of your testemant here in mind when talking with you in the future.

[Chaos]

Blackthorn I apologize. Its not good to get somebody's name wrong. I was tired when I wrote that and its maybe a freudian slip over the whole thing with Epoch. Hope there's no hard feelings.

Sylvan you didn't offend me. Only Wi managed that and lets face it, she did it by accident. We're good.

Wi, the fact you asked "what are you" but meant "what's your career" is your own problem. Likewise your opinions on t-rats. You can hide behind that "loose affiliation" bullshit all you want. It doesn't change anything I said. As a group t-rats are useless and if they went away tomorrow why would the world care?

Nice application of philosophy on dealing with Saori's freedom of choice last night.

Oh, I'm sorry. That wasn't you.

[Trooper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kid Chaos:
Blackthorn I apologize. Its not good to get somebody's name wrong.

So says the man who keeps calling me "Super Trooper".

[Chaos]

That's what they call you. If you've never heard it before maybe they don't say it to your face. I wouldn't know since I don't work for Devries. But its stuck in Zambibia, Djibouti and the Congo. It sounded like the usual Devries hype to me.

[Ptesan-Wi]

I spent close to half an hour trying to come up with a polite way to reply to you this morning, Kid Chaos. It was a wasted half-hour.

You are unable or unwilling to understand that the Teragen is, at most, a rather loose umbrella group. You willfully ignore the difference between, say, The Apostle and Count Orzaiz, or Shrapnel and Procyon, and dismiss the whole lot as a group. But despite the drastic differences of opinion and of methodology, there's a core philosophy involved, and while the baseline world might not care - might even rejoice - if the Teragen disappeared tomorrow, the loss of that philosophy would certainly matter to any nova who has come to a particular and singular realization: "I am not human." Teras provides a way of dealing with that realization, and using it as a base for personal growth. None of this may mean much to you; it doesn't have a mission objective or a Swiss account full of blood money attached, and your rifle scope doesn't include a setting for a long-term view. But it matters to plenty of others.

As for Saori's freedom of choice - I wish she had some. Unfortunately, a lifetime of brainwashing in a repressive Chinese culture that taught her that she has neither freedom nor choice, that both are the purview of whatever male authority figure happens to be in her life at any given time, has rendered her effectively incapable of exercising anything resembling freedom of choice. I'm not going to force her eyes open, but I can certainly hope that, with time, they will be opened.

[The White Rat]

While I did compare people (humans, NOT Novas) to microbes, I also said that for the microbe, the doctors act of mercy towards his patient was not merciful to the microbe. The doctors act of mercy is at the cost of the microbial life form.

Now, as a microbe, are you merciful? Do you kill off your host? Do you use your host to survive?

To the host, the microbe's actions are merciless. The microbe shows no mercy to its host.

So what is seen as immoral to one organism is not immoral to the other, especially when there are competing interests. Nature does it every day. One organism kills another in order to ensure its continued survival.

A doctor kills microbes to ensure the survival of his patient. The microbe infects, and may even kill its host to survive.

What I do, is no different. I just take pleasure in it.

What is wrong with having fun while you remove and 'infection'?

[z-Gu Saori]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ptesan-Wi:
As for Saori's freedom of choice - I wish she had some. Unfortunately, a lifetime of brainwashing in a repressive Chinese culture that taught her that she has neither freedom nor choice, that both are the purview of whatever male authority figure happens to be in her life at any given time, has rendered her effectively incapable of exercising anything resembling freedom of choice. I'm not going to force her eyes open, but I can certainly hope that, with time, they will be opened.

I am aware of the American insistance that women share the roles with men, but this creates an imbalance in the world. I honor my roles, and my place in the world. And Ptesan-Wi, just as you choose to honor the roles of your world, so I choose to honor my roles. I could become a Western woman; I choose not to. I am happy. Why do you wish to make me unhappy?

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gu Saori:
I am aware of the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights of 1946 insistance that women share the roles with men, but this creates an imbalance in the world.

Fixed that for you.

[z-Gu Saori]

Quote:

Originally posted by Flicker:

Quote:

Originally posted by Gu Saori:
I am aware of the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights of 1946 insistance that women share the roles with men, but this creates an imbalance in the world.

Fixed that for you.

Just because it is a law, does not make it proper or right. Many have moral objections to the death penalty; yet many countries continue to support it.

All I ask is that I am allowed to carry forth with my life as I please, and I will allow you the same courtesy.

[Doctor Nova Madigan]

So you're saying the death penalty is like the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights of 1946?

You're nuts. Have a nice life.

[z-Gu Saori]

Quote:

Originally posted by Flicker:
So you're saying the death penalty is like the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights of 1946?

You're nuts. Have a nice life.

No. I was pointing that just because something is a law or made into a declaration does not automatically make it correct or moral. I am not insane; I merely hold a different view than you. If that is your requirement for insanity, then you must know very few sane people.

[GDP_ST]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gu Saori:

Quote:

Originally posted by Flicker:
So you're saying the death penalty is like the United Nations Declaration of Universal Human Rights of 1946?

You're nuts. Have a nice life.

No. I was pointing that just because something is a law or made into a declaration does not automatically make it correct or moral....

Sort of like the Zurich Accord, when you think about it. Saori's right to determine what makes her happy is morally inviolable.

That being said, Saori, it is a shame to not even make an educated choice as to which lifestyle suits you better. A mark of intellectual honesty is to consider other viewpoints as thought they were your own before discarding them. In short, don't knock it 'til you've tried it. If you still prefer your old way of life, then I am happy for you.

But to refuse to consider other viewpoints because they might shake your world view uncomfortably is somewhat saddening.

[GDP_ST]

Oh, and Rat? Humans as well as members of the One Race have the distinction of not being total slaves to their instincts, unless of course they lack higher rationality due to illness or birth defects.

You have a choice in how you act, so do humans. Microbes do not: This is why acts perpetrated by nova and human alike cannot be simply explained under the 'Nature red, in tooth and claw' rationale. There is no excuse for genocide.

You enjoy killing. Fine and dandy for you. Don't expect people to buy the 'I'm just doing a natural thing and having fun whilst doing it' argument to carry any weight, though.

[The White Rat]

Well Procyon, when Homo Sapiens Sapiens  seeks to eliminate you for not being human, you will change your tune. After all that is what humans do best.

I will postulate that humans can no longer choose their nature than the microbe. All of us are a product of the same evolutionary process. Are we to deny the natural order of things?

Genocide is the ultimate evolutionary triumph of one species over another. It ensures the survival of the species. It is natural.

How many species are now extinct because of humanity?

[The White Rat]

Oh, and Procyon, if you really want to know how much I enjoy killing, maybe we can meet?

[Leliel]

I have no love for baselines....nor have I any great hatred for them. Concentrating on baseline affairs I find somewhat restraining to my own development.

Now, if a baseline tries to kill me, I will cheerfully as Geryon put it "send him to the tunnel of light". But that is because in such a case I would have to.

In short, I have no compunctions against killing when it needs to be done. Balancing that is I do not merely kill to prove I can do it or any such nonsense. I know what I am capable of, I have nothing to prove.

A Nova's mind is easily capable of triumph over the instincts of the baseline brain. Whether any given Nova chooses to is of course, a different story altogether.

[Chaos]

Wi, I thought about adding a little heat to the discussion. Then Saori came out and, with honest intention, shined a little light on the "deep philosphy" that motivates you. After watching you take that beating it would be cruel for me take the shot.

Damn, that had to hurt.

[Ptesan-Wi]

What Saori posted does not, in any way, change the fact of the situation. I have met Saori. She's a sweet girl... and is completely bound by a lifetime of harsh cultural indoctrination.

So yes, it did hurt, Kid Chaos, but not in the way that you so obviously hoped. It hurts to see someone with the potential of Saori continue to think of herself as an inferior because she happens to be female.

[Chaos]

Thanks for clearing that up Wi. Were you always philosophically retarded? Or did it take years of training to become this shallow? Its something you share with every t-rat I ever met or heard of btw. It's why t-rats are useless.

The "had to hurt" comment was about your hypocrisy. I'm telling you this straight out because I can see you're philosophically retarded and don't want to send you haring off to create more martyr fantasies. Not that its fun to watch but a waste of time and ineffective.

I did like the quick step from "brainwashing" to "cultural indoctrination" though. That was interesting.

A real eye opener.

[Trooper]

What about the Teragen is so offensive to you, Kid Chaos? I know I'm not fond of supremecist rantings but I do realize that I'm not human. I've never looked into the Teragen much as I don't feel some emptiness in my life that needs to be filled. But what about them offends you?

[Chaos]

You ever met a t-rat that wasn't so shallow they made jello look deep?

Wi is actually one of the better examples in as much as she seems relatively harmless. Dense, selfish, a little bitchy, carrying a would-be martyr complex and pissed that no one wants to nail her to a cross but relatively harmless.

And she's one of the better ones. Better meaning not quite as damaged. They're useless.

[Trooper]

So, Terats are "shallow" and that is the sum of your problem with them? Alright then, how are they shallow? I'm sorry for repeating myself I'm just not seeing what you're trying to communicate.

[GDP_ST]

It'd be amusing if it wasn't so tragic.

Kid Chaos, for a quantum-powered mercenary who fights and kills for money on behalf of people too spineless to do it themselves, you have a lot of gall to accuse anyone, least of all Ptesan-Wi, of being shallow or philosophically retarded.

Now, I'm fairly sure that you just like to instigate OpNet flame wars when you have nothing better to do, so this will be the last post I make addressed to you.

Rat:

They have tried, they continue to try, and I'm sure they'll keep trying.

Just like you and your little friends.

And I will continue to defend myself through whatever means are necessary.

Just because Sapiens are incapable of resisting the urge to commit genocide is no excuse for Novus to follow suit.

"They did it first!": The cry of the immature child throughout centuries of squabbling.

[Chaos]

Sure Procyon. I'll put you in the group of "nine novas she's friends with or screwing" that felt the need to chime it. If you got a question then ask. If you got opinion then spit it out. But through it all keep in mind I don't give a damn who you're "loose affiliation" friends with.

Oh, that's right. You climbed on your soap box and then said it would the last thing you said to me.

I'm going to hold you to that.

Trooper, what exactly are any of them saying? That they have a node and it makes them special. That by living the "way of the node" they're going find themselves in quantum Shangri-La. I can name half a dozen religions and philosophies from the last couple of hundred years that were just as worthless. That's my problem with the t-rats. Just another bunch of cranks whose bullshit I'm suppose to take seriously. And why?

Because they have a node. Everything else is vapor.

If you'd given those other half dozen crackpot movements a node people would have taken them seriously too. Not because of their shallow philosophy though. No. Because they have a node. Its just the same old crap.

But the real kicker is, no matter what they say about being t-rats and their making their spiritual laundry whiter than white, as soon as they open their mouths about anything else its all the same rationalizing bullshit I could hear from any "puny human" on the streets. Wi and Saori are a great example. Wi can talk all day long about empowerment... making choices... manifest destiny... loose affiliation free pass... blah bablah blah... But as soon as someone doesn't agree with her its all "Brainwashing", "Cultural Indoctrination" or "Obviously you just don't understand the glory of my opinion".

Shallow philosophy.

Shallow thinking.

Shallow crap.

The worst part is, as bad she is, she's actually one of the better ones. Or least no worse. White Rat, whose bullshit gets excused because of craziness, can have a "deep" discussion with Procyon, who cries flame war rather than actually be in a position to validate his bullshit. But as soon as someone says "what a crock of garbage this all is" the reaction is the same as any other human beings would be. And I'm suppose to pretend they might actually be other than human?

If they are its only by virtue of biology and a phrase in latin. Homo sapiens novus. The new man, same as the old man, but with new node features built in. Me, I'm just waiting around for one of these "spiritually enlightened" pygmies to finally give it his or her all and proclaim;

"I'm goin' to kick yo' ass!"

[Y.T.]

Chaos, I am not human. I no longer wish to achieve many things that are key to being human. I do not need to tell you what to be, nor defend what I am. I am no here to preach to you, if you wish to see yourself for what you truly are, then you will see it no mater what I say.If you do not wish to see, then you will not.

So Chaos you say someone stood on a soap box, well I would say to you look under your feet.

[Chaos]

How zen of you. A budding writer of fortune cookies?

I'll just check back later for the other 7 "loose affiliation" replies.

9-2=7

[Sandcaster]

This is ridiculous.

Chaos: I am not fond of the Teragen. I am not fond of their philosophy, their methodology, their self-declaration of non-humanity, or their sense of superiority. And I find a good deal of Ptesan-Wi's statements and actions over the past few months to be deeply disturbing.

However, what you are doing here is not constructive debate or informed argument; it is personal attack and preaching. You are "trolling", to use the accepted term, and are contributing nothing to this OpNet forum other than a display of your own ego.

Everyone else: you are engaging in an activity that was once referred to as "feeding the troll". I would recommend that you stop. You cannot win a debate with this individual, because he isn't debating and isn't interested in what you say, other than to twist your words into material for his own pulpit.

[Y.T.]

Sure, it is simple. Sure it has been said before. That doesn't make it any less true.

[The White Rat]

Chaos: I could care less if you think what I say is 'bullshit'. I don't care if you share my philosophy or not. I don't make decisions based on how other people view me.

I also don't care if people 'excuse' my actions. What I do, I do because I think it's the right path for me.

Don't you have a purpose in life?

Sandcaster: Nice to see your still around. Visited the sewers recently?

Procyon: In time, you will get yours.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Hey, Shite Rat, just so you know, some of us "T-rats" think you're fucking nuts too.

Peace out, nutball.

[Vixen]

Everyone is being a

[Chaos]

A moment of your time if you please Sandcaster.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandcaster:

However, what you are doing here is not constructive debate or informed argument; it is personal attack and preaching.

Welcome to the world outside Chicago. With that out of the way... Why don't you extract the stick from your sandy butt and examine this "discussion" with something other than the cyber-nanny view that seems to come conveniently easy to you. Only the "disturbed" t-rats are buying into your troll garbage btw. That's because if I'm a troll then they can smile their smug little smiles while continuing to discuss White Rat's thoughts on murder in a civilized manner.

Some wanted to know what I thought about something and got it. Some wanted to know why and got it. Some tried to pass off a bouncing check of carte blanche with a little divinity tossed in and, yes, I told them to stuff it. However I took a great deal of time and effort to answer the quesstions I received.

If you want to play cyber-nanny then you have my blessing. Maybe even my support for the effort. Maybe not. But you trying to turn this into something its not just so you can arbitrarily inject your own artifical sense of calm to the opnet is as much crap as the t-rats "loose affiliation" excuse for everything they didn't personally do with their own hands and can't argue their way out of.

Thanks for the moment of your time. I truly appreciate the opportunity to present an alternate explanation that doesn't require impugning my motives. And kiss my ass. I don't like what you tried to do. Personally I think I've contributed a lot more to this opnet forum on the subject than your erudite but vaguely disapproving frown ever did. The world isn't a meeting using parlimentary procedures. And you are not the chairman presiding over the meeting.

Quote:

Originally posted by The White Rat:

What I do, I do because I think it's the right path for me.

Good for you.

Its not often a deranged lunatic with delusions is as happy as you are.

Thanks for giving Sandcaster an objective example of t-rat bullshit to use in putting my statements above into context. I value your insane input and I'm certain she will as well.

[Sandcaster]

Chaos, the fact that the White Rat is a drooling sociopathic murderer and a fugitive from justice does not change your status one whit. This isn't a matter of perspectives or comparisons; a sociopath is still a sociopath, and an OpNet troll is still an OpNet troll.

By the way: if the rest of you Terats want to do something useful, a grand start would be to hand over the White Rat for trial.

[The White Rat]

Chaos: There is a very fine line between lunacy and genius. They are not discussing my thoughts on murdering in a civilized manner. They are discussing the philosophic merits of violence and mercy.

Sandcaster: Thank you for those kind words. I'm glad someone understands me.

I think I'll find a school bus full of children, to celebrate my freedom and your understanding.

[Chaos]

Sandcaster;

Fine. You're just a would be cyber-nanny indulging in a failing social manipulation and apparently not doing well at basic reading comprehension. But look at the bright side: you're silicon. While it'll take two hands and maybe some lube, there's a still a very good chance of extracting that stick from your sandy butt.

I'm sorry to be one to inform you of the nature of the world and your lack of stature therein. Truth sometimes comes from unpleasant sources. Get over it. If your contributions seem unsatisfyingly small then get off your ass and maybe make an actual contribution to the subject.

You're concerned by some of Wi's opinions? Telling t-rats to hand over one of their useless loons is constructive?

The White Rat;

You are so nuts.

In a way its funny. You're a lunatic playing out homocidal fantasies but a municipal defender would rather overlook your little "eccentricities" than deal with the fact that not everyone shares her anal compulsive tendencies towards opnet courtesy. Don't let it go to your head though. That doesn't make you any less deranged.

But didn't I tell you she'd value your insane input?

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sandcaster:


By the way: if the rest of you Terats want to do something useful, a grand start would be to hand over the White Rat for trial.

Ummmm....

I'm not a cop, secret agent, or superhero. That's your bag, Sister.

Also, he'd likely kill my ass if I so much as said "boo" to the monster. I ain't no combat machine.

[Sandcaster]

Trust me, Lemmy: all we need is an anonymous tip. We'll take it from there.