opnet [OpNet] Entertainment

[Apep]

I do not believe I have seen any of these films.

[Dreamer]

The last dance. If you can find it,it is worth your time.

[Typhoon]

'Equilibrium' is also for a Farenheit/Matrix thriller.

It's worth it alone for the puppy.

[Long]

That was the movie that Got Christian Bale the part of Batman in the Classic Batman Begins...

[Typhoon]

Ken Watanabe IS Ra's Al'Gul!!!

[Miss Baby]

I would have to say that Movies never really did much for me. I do enjoy them,but they seem to be a flawed form of art.

I do greatly enjoy books. I just finished reading a rather interesting one, Spirits in the Wires. I would have to say that those who haven't read it, should.

[Iron Rose]

I remember watching Spiderman 2 with my Dad in the theaters, I thinkt hey picked the right guy for the part, Tobey Maguire did a great job.

[Typhoon]

I remember seeing that while on shoreleave in Holyloch, Scotland. I hadn't heard of Alfred Molina prior to Doctor Octopus, but he impressed me!

[Tarot]

Okay. I can say something now. Nostalgia.

Reading this thread has been a exercise in patience for me. Much of what's mentioned, talked about or just inferred are things that I feel strongly about. Sometimes even a little insulted by. But I wanted to find a way to voice the thoughts riccocheting around in my skull that wouldn't be immediately misunderstood and annoy everyone for no reason. Its okay to piss people off for a reason but doing it just to do it only makes you a dick. So here it is. The way I see it this thread is about nostalgia.

There's a couple of pre-N Day things I love but I'm not going to tell you how great the CGI/wire work/light special effects (SFx) compares to quantum because it doesn't. It just doesn't. A nova director can take a script consisting of three illegible lines on a nappie about a retarded chimp and she'll make it an epic story talked about for decades to come. A nova actor can make half the world weep with tears in a 30 second condom commercial. Sorry Sakurako but Rick Tiger makes Jackie Chan look like an epileptic having a mite meltdown and I blow Miyazaki out of the water just with the shit I don't even bother to finish. So how come we're even bothering to talk about some (comparatively) amateurish fumblings? Because we do love them.

Somebody once told me that people respect us for our strengths but love us for our faults. I like the guy but that seemed like greeting card company BS to me until after I erupted and got a better understang about how the mind and the eye work. We're fond of the things we are (partly) because they're not perfect. Add to that the stuff that we associate with them because of what was going on in our lives and minds at the time we saw this stuff and suddenly its a unique experience. Fondness becomes love. Usually a lot of other stuff too but always at least a little love.

Would Typhoon care about Equilibrium if he'd seen it after Millennium Reset? Probably not. Would Sakurako think Jackie Chan was great if her first experience with him was The Medallion just after watching Rick Tiger's remake of it? Doubt it. Just because Saimhe talked it up so much, I suffered through 30 minutes of The Matrix (which I had to order from an rare antiquities dealer in New Jersey because no one bothers to stock it for download online - thanks Saimhe) and it was torture. Believe me when I say that 30-minutes was more than it deserves and an example of god-like open mindedness. That still doesn't change the fact that she loves it.

So is there some pre N-Day stuff I like? Sure, but the list wouldn't mean anything to anyone else without telling you all the things that were going on in my mind and life the first time I saw them. Nostalgia is unique to the individual.

[Apep]

This topic confused me. I did not understand why any of these films were loved so much.

From what little I had learned about them, they just seem so hollow in comparison. I suppose nostalgia is a fair explanation.

[kestrel404]

Heh, I think you've got it now Tarot. If you'd tried to watch one of the ones I recommended rather than the Matrix, I think you would have gotten that conclusion a lot faster. Two minutes, tops.

Try watching Buckaroo Bonzai. Heck, try FINDING it. It's not impossible, there's still a cult following, even now. But the only way to describe it is: so horrible it's perfect.

[Tarot]

I was trying to be open-minded about it, Al. I kept telling myself, "Sure its horrible now but its got to get better." 28 minutes of open-mindness later I held a ceremonial chip burning with a quart of paint thinner and a eulogy given by Whore's Daughter #3.

"This piece of shit sucked like the black hole at the center of the god**** galaxy. But even in a suckatude that traps light there's a ray of hope. Nothing we see will ever be this f****ing bad again." Which was more poetic than it deserved.

Sorry Saimhe.

Hey. She implied we'd be spending more time together. She said we.

Cool!

[Jager]

Everything that came before is crap, and everything (nova)new is golden.

Unless you look at it, and can appreciate it, in context.

Does Jackie Chan stack up against Rick Tiger? No.

Does that cheapen Jackie's accomplishments?

Not to me. Not to alot of people.

I also don't want to cry during a condom commercial, thank you very much.

Also, in context, I take the same critical eye toward nova art. Most of it is half-assed (the commercial variety, mainly).

It's slapped together by some nova with a minimal effort at inspiration and its crap. Yes, it is easily the equal to a Picasso, or a Rockwell, but its not the quality, but the effort that is important to me.

Of course, I also don't equate Cubism to the Dutch Masters. They are different things.

Art does not equal art.

Ballet isn't the Blues.

Well, if you are a nova artist and you want to keep talking about what hot shit you are compared to the rest of humanity, go right ahead. You are setting yourself a rather low mark, but that choice is yours.

[Singularity]

Thank you, Jager, I am glad you understood my point.

[Dreamer]

We live in an age like all others before us. We look back at what was built before us and say that their achievements are nothing compared to what we are doing now.I have this to say, we are what we are,only because we stand on those shoulders of those who came before us.

We build things to such hights,because we wish to be greater than anyone else. Our idols,and icons have to be bigger and better than our parents.Our heroes have to be more grand. We are only better than those who came before us,because we are walking on top of the pinnacles of their dreams. If they we not before, we wouldn't strive as hard as we do.

[Tarot]

Jager, you're talking bold today. Did you invent another new way to kill someone?

Singularity you can put me down for missing your point. Looking back I can't imagine why I thought you wanted to hear my honest opinion.

[Singularity]

I have not put anyone down, Tarot. And I asked for everyone's opinion to see who agreed. You and I disagree, it happens.

[Tarot]

Singularity. The backhand on that comment to Jager wasn't subtle. Since you had the kahones to make the comment have the guts to stand by it.

We don't disagree. Even though we don't disagree I don't feel like rationalizing why something is important to me by talking about things like SFx, wirework or production values. They were important to me because of what they meant to me when I saw them. That's art.

I do feel better knowing I'm not the only one that can miss a point though. Thanks.

[Singularity]

I am not the one who has perpetually pissed in your Wheaties, Tarot. Stop looking for agression or arguments where there are none.

[Tarot]

Didn't say you were a chronic. No one here has managed to make that level yet.

If you missed the point before then I've drawn you a map so you can take a look at it while accepting my sincere gratitude for making me feel better.

Major news here; we don't disagree. And yes, you're acting disingenious.

[Singularity]

Chalk one up for the inadequacies of conveying things over the OpNet then. Meh.

[Archon]

whoa! other people remember the old stuff. kinda makes me feel better.

as long as we don't talk about the 1980's super-hero flicks.

with some hack David Hasselhoff playing Nick Fury and all.

[Tarot]

It happens, Singularity.

[Long]

Than you Archon for making me remember The original version of The Fantastic Four and Captain America, and Dolph Lundgren as the Punisher... and a small army of other movies Hollywood ruined.. Joel Schumacher killed Batman I swear to God...

[Ashnod]

I could be mistaken, but I believe one of the things that Tarot is referring to is the very odd tendency these forums have of speaking of predominantly baseline created superhero media, and most of that predominantly pre-N-Day.

On occasion, it is laced with a gentle sentiment, or sometimes outright declaration, of how much better these works are than the current productions.

The coincidence remains both in the topical matter and the time it was created. That is what some of us find intriguing.

You do not, for example, hear many people praising Fractal, a warmly received arthouse-released baseline made-baseline acted sci-fi film released in 2012, or the higher-grossing nova-created film The Paradox Conundrum released later that year

[Sakurako Hino]

Here's a movie that needs respect. "Paradigm".

It was written by a Nova who doesn't even recognize the need for a name. He or she created a character that quite frankly, would scare most baselines.

You see, the character, when they first erupt, felt normal. Then the world started to warp around them. Slowly at first, the occasional deja-vu, plants changing color ever so slightly. Then as the character went deeper, it seemed what he experienced in his dreamworld as a baseline, started to flood into the real world. At least the character thought so. In the end, he only existed in the world created by his mind. The day it happened, he dissapeared from our world entirely. Even all knowledge or record of his existance vanished in some sort of quantum flux.

You could feel quite uncomfortable with the character as the story unfolded, as every aspect of what he considered reality vanished.

It scares me even more since it is not very outside the realm of reality now that a person could eventually end up in a world of their own making. Literally. And not even know it untill they wake up there. And no one knew you existed.

I was suprised the movie only made 50 million. It was such a mind-trip it should have pulled in more. But, the material got heaver than what even I could distill. Since it questioned alot of things that could be contained in quantum theory regarding the will and how it influences reality. Especially when our abilities work on that level.

[Wakinyan]

Oh come on! I mentioned three Nova films! Okay so ID4-2 was a Summer popcorn sequel but damnit it had Novas!

[kestrel404]

Ashnod: I find most of the new Novox movies and music too polished and well wrought to discuss. I can praise it, sure. But I'm not a professional critic, so I can't point out any meaningful flaws (for instance, I don't care for Lemmy's lyrics most of the time, but that's just my opinion, and they're still damn fine songs).

Also, I generally don't even watch most of the modern movies. Ninety percent of them deal with 'how cool it is to be a nova'. I LIVE that, I don't need to get spoon-fed that message in the theaters or on TV. The reactionary anti-nova (or post-nova baseline made) stuff is just as bad.

Why super-heros? Well, two reasons. I'm what used to be called a geek (I'll ask my kids what they call the lower rungs on the social ladder these days), and super-heros are an old passion. I remember refferences to them and respond in kind.

But also, and this applies to everyone on the board equally, the old super-powered fictional characters held a lot of insight into our present day problems. X-men, for all that it was originally written to highlight late-20th century bigotry and racism, tackled some of the social aspects of novadom before there were novas. Powers, and Watchmen and The Authority, they all looked at the gap between man and superman. And while they may be written by baselines and flawed in their insights, those flaws themselves are insights.

So yeah, I prefer to talk about Babylon 5 over Quantum Space, and Batman over The Kickjack Chronicles. It's just the way I am.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
But also, and this applies to everyone on the board equally, the old super-powered fictional characters held a lot of insight into our present day problems.

But Al, I can get the same thing from the movie Paradigm mentioned by Sakurako, The El Gato Negro; Feral story arc, Valor of Heroes before it started to suck, Millennium Reset talking about the cause and effect of memory vs reality or the last ten minute of The Medallion where Rick Tiger and Glamour Guassen's characters meet the Buddha in the middle of the road.

What makes your X-Men so much more insightful than Paradox Conundrum or Time Skimmer?

[kestrel404]

The fact that it was made before novas, from a purely baseline point of view.

[Tarot]

Does that really mean its more insightful?

[kestrel404]

I never said that the pre-nova material was more insightful than any other. Only that I preferred discussing it over the newer stuff.

The insights that it has to offer are unique to that era. A time when humanity was struggling to define what it was, even before the existence of novas was added to the equation.

[Ashnod]

Alchemist: I am not questioning an individual's preference for that area and that subject matter. I am, however, questioning the apparent preference of this forum's population for it. I am speaking of why, as a group, all conversation on this topic seems to gravitate in that direction.

Even then, your answer sounds forced to me. I sense that if we completely removed novas from the equation, if N-Day never happened in other words, you would still prefer these films over anything current, especially since films made in the present era that have nothing to due with how "cool it is to be a nova" should qualify as interesting to you so long as they meet the topical matter.

Examining your answer, I find this: I find most of the new Novox movies and music too polished and well wrought to discuss.

That does not sound accurate to me. Prior to N-Day, people would discuss Mozart and Beethoven and state their pieces were nigh-perfect, and yet they would still discuss them. As an adolescent, I would frequently praise and discuss CD's of which I enjoyed every single track, finding not one to be weak.

Also, I generally don't even watch most of the modern movies. Yet, you still are not discussing that ones made recently that meet your tastes. I find it exceedingly hard to believe that only that era, and that topical matter, entertain you.

But also, and this applies to everyone on the board equally, the old super-powered fictional characters held a lot of insight into our present day problems. Fallacy, as it suggests the current media does not. Much of the 90% percent of current films you decry because they deal with novas glorify superhumanity, with all it's perceived flaws (from baseline eyes). Saying that pre N-Day media tackled this better, or more insightfully, simply because superhumans did not yet walk the planet is ludicrous. If anything, the current films deal with it more accurately as living, breathing examples of it can be used as consultants and screenwriters. I can understand how this would appeal to you if you are interested in seeing how humanity used to view us, if you enjoy studying the differences between their fantasy and our reality, but that is not what you said. Even then, had you said that, I find it odd that this topical matter would be the only thing of interest to you on film.

Why super-heros? Well, two reasons. I'm what used to be called a geek and super-heros are an old passion.

That's the most honest part of this entire explanation. Everything else is elaborate justification as to why you continue to find favor with these stories and that era.

My opinion only, of course.

[Typhoon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Archon:
whoa! other people remember the old stuff. kinda makes me feel better.

as long as we don't talk about the 1980's super-hero flicks.

with some hack David Hasselhoff playing Nick Fury and all.

Actually can we never bring that up again?

[Jager]

Quote:

Originally posted by Franklin 'Singularity' Alden:
..., but we hear about those movies all the time. I was hoping if any of you remember some favorite or influenial pre N-Day movies. Obviously, the small town American in me loves action and kung fu movies, but my tastes have expanded over the years into other genres. Most of Orsen Wells' work has been most impressive, at least in a historical context. Francis Ford Coppola and (again) Steven Spielberg are in the same category as well.

Would anyone like to share some favorites?

The original topic, FYI.

Ashnod, Alchemist said he is not a critic and does not normally discuss music, film, and lit.

IMHO, the insight that pre-Nday films and lit. had are that they are truly theoretical looks at something near to our present state.
Its the old myth vs. data thing.

Nor is it ludicrious to look for insight from that time. After all, we do bring a bias to the creative efforts. We are not perfect, nor impartial ... we are emotional and inspired, but that inspiration does not always lead to a truth, or even the truth.

Looking back at those pre-N and early Post-N work has that "what if" quality that no longer exists. We know what its like to have superhumans walking among us. We see what they do every day. Its our history and there is nothing wrong with liking it for what it is, and was.

[Ashnod]

As I said, I do not doubt an individual's like of the era or the topical matter. What I am attempting to gain insight into is the popularity it seems to have with the majority of this site's population.

It seems...too coincidental...that so many of us would be what Alchemist termed "a geek," too coincidental that many of us seemingly had affection for comic books and comic book movies prior to our eruptions.

That is my question for those of who you find favor in that genre, particularly the works published and created prior to N-Day.

[Matryoshka]

Well, I dislike most novas based stories. I am rather sick and bothered with the "We need a hero" plots and spin doctoring.

[Xeno]

Two possibly relevant opinions on the matter of Nova Media (Theirs, not mine):

One is disillusionment with the loss of fantasy. The scope of stories that are patently outside the realm of the possible has been greatly reduced. Fiction is still fiction, but that more distant level of escapism is harder to achieve when there is an actual force in reality (Novas) that could, arguably, allow anything to happen. Note that this doesn't apply strictly to the distinction between pre and post Nova media.

The other is paranoia. One of Them refuses to partake of any nova-based media for fear of subliminal reprogramming. One would expect that mindset is found only in a negligible minority.

To keep on topic, here are some of Their favored selections. I have insufficient basis for an opinion of my own at present.

Yellow Submarine (In which things happen that I do not understand.)

I am forced to assume the memories of this aged production are somehow faulty.

Diaspora (In which the future of humans/novas is virtual rather than tangible) & System Shock (In which a quantum computer overcomes quantum 'meat' for (as asserted) "The best unhappy ending ever.")

Modern science fiction (as opposed to science fantasy) has benefited from point one, has it not? Anything one cares to speculate upon, within certain tolerances, might come to pass.

Fantasia 4 (In which the brain is pleasantly over-stimulated without introducing foreign substances to the body)

I do not entirely trust the memories of this production either. I suspect I can not derive the intended effect from an actual viewing, but I will investigate the matter further.

[Walker]

Ashnod My own taste for Pre-NDay movies is largly akin to Baseline nostalgia I think. That and missing out on a large swathe of culture from 1999-2012 by having other things to do. I love Narcosis as much as the next Nova but it was off topic. I myself am a bit at a loss to explain the numbers of Novas who hang out here who like comics and super-hero stuff. I guess it's some sort of herding instinct, maybe word went round the comic-geek underground that they could post here with impunity.

[Miss Baby]

Art and entertainment are not the same thing. Art and emotions are not the same thing.