Aberrant: 2011 - Okay.. A big thing..

[Dawn OOC]

1. Stop drawing ridiculous conclusions and twisting my words. I never said that only the PCs can do things. I said that the only stories that interest us are the ones that have PCs as a focal point. The NPCs exist. They do their stuff, and do it well. But we don't care.

2. At the very least, 'we' is Tempest and I. There are more who haven't spoken up. Not to be mean (mostly because you already know this), but most people have lukewarm reactions to your PCs; why do you think that your NPCs will interest them more? Think of it like a movie; the PCs are the main characters of the story, but there are other people in the movie. And we see them, but only in relation to what they do to help or hinder the main characters.

3. Lots of PCs waive consent in many situations. Jager and Long regularly 'power down' to not overwhelm a story.

4. Where is canon thrown out the window in 2017, and not addressed, usually vocally, by the rest of the board? Please provide some evidence of canon violations, as the claim that 'canon doesn't mean jack shit in 2017' does not support the evidence I have seen.

[Y.T.]

I am not writing what the NPC do or what they are like. I am giving brief note one the world. Note how I did not say a damned thing what this other nova is like other than they work for the US government, and in this case would be opssing Utopia's action. That leave many and I do add many levels of gray for other to fill. Oh my.

Name three players who were killed by other players in 2017.

Name one that was killed by another player that was not some sort of heroic battle of epic scales.

Jager powers down because if he doesn't he is not aloud in the game.It is the whole if thing of play by my rules or go home. See it is the whole cross over flaw. Like in comic books, it doesn't matter what the canon is for any one character in the story it is about what the fans want. Take Wolverine VS Lobo. Lobo is stronger than superman, and superman has in canon times bent the bullshitium that is wolverine bones. To superman it is not that big of a deal. Yet in that cross over Lobo did not win the fight, it was a tie. Why? Well because that is what fans boys want. You power down Jager because you do not want him to out shine other people in a story, that is all good, but understand that is just there for the fan boys. But that is not the point.

I am trying to say that I am not desiding how you or anyone else writes a story, only laying out the facts. I honestly can't say how your characters would react to this action. SO i set forth a plot that is based around NPCs who are for this one case acting this way. You the player can choose how to react to this.

The only NPCs I am laying any claim to is Carlos and his actions, the rest are well up to anyone else.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

I am not writing what the NPC['s] do or what they are like. I am giving [a] brief note one the world. Note how I did not say a damned thing what this other nova is like other than they work for the US government, and in this case would be opssing [opposing] Utopia's action. That leave many and I do add many levels of gray for other to fill. Oh my. [That leaves room for others to fill in as they will.]

Except for the tiny problem that everyone has, in general, been opposed to the idea of a powerful NPC showing up just to waive dick/clitoris around and make PU back down. If we're going to do this, let's at least have a PC or a group of PCs doing it.

I had an image when I typed that, of PCs standing shoulder-to-shoulder in the pouring rain, arms crossed, saying, "This is our country. Thanks for what you've done, but we've got it now." Isn't that much more powerful and evocative than what you have in mind?

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

Name three players who were killed by other players in 2017.

Name one that was killed by another player that was not some sort of heroic battle of epic scales.

I can only assume that this is your answer to my request for canon violations in 2017. You are making the claim; the burden of proof is on you. You need to convince me (and anyone else reading) that canon violations have occurred.

Frankly though, I'd drop this if I were you. The Directors are supposed to spank canon violators who refuse to acknowledge peer censure; you're stating that they're not doing their job. And if you do have a valid canon violation that has been wrongfully allowed to persist, you need to take it to them for resolution.

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

Jager powers down because if he doesn't he is not aloud allowed in the game.[space] It is the whole if thing of play by my rules or go home. See it is the whole cross over flaw. Like in comic books, it doesn't matter what the canon is for any one character in the story[;] it is about what the fans want. Take Wolverine VS Lobo. Lobo is stronger than sSuperman, and sSuperman has in canon times bent the bullshitium that is wWolverine['s] bones. To sSuperman it is not that big of a deal. Yet in that cross over Lobo did not win the fight, it was a tie. Why? Well because that is what fans boys want. You power down Jager because you do not want him to out shine other people in a story, that is all good, but understand that is just there for the fan boys. But that is not the point.

I understand no such thing, because we are not fan boys here. We aren't drooling fans whose only emotional attachment to these characters is the fact that we think they're cool. No, we actually own these characters in a way, and for you to dismiss us as fanboys is insulting.

What is the point is that we all share this world. It is not your world; it is not mine. We have to work together to make something happen. You'll note, I've never completely dismissed your idea. I have issues with parts of it, but I think the rest is fine. So let's work together on this, instead of fighting about it, ok?

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

I am trying to say that I am not desiding [deciding] how you or anyone else writes a story, only laying out the facts. I honestly can't say how your characters would react to this action [situation]. SO i [so I] set forth a plot that is based around NPCs who are for this one case acting this way. You the player can choose how to react to this. The only NPCs I am laying any claim to is Carlos and his actions, the rest are well up to anyone else.

You DO NOT get what we're saying. Don't base a plot on the NP-frackin-Cs! Base it on the PCs! I don't know how else to say it; I've said it clearly several different ways, and at this point, I think you're just stubbornly digging your heels in, as you have done in the past.

Storytime. When I ran my first WoD game (and PW will back me on this), I had no clue what I was doing. I went in with a rich story, great background, an epic plot and three-dimensional NPCs. The PCs had fun for the most part, but one of them finally said, "You know, there are a lot of times where the NPCs are talking, and we players are just sitting here listening to them. That's not fun for us." And I was shattered, because I thought I was hot stuff.

This isn't theatre; we're not here to put on a song and dance for the other players. We're here to tell interactive stories, to let each other tell all our stories together, and to generally have fun. Watching an NPC perform the climatic act of the earthquake - because the entire reason you want to do this crisis is to hand PU its hat - is dull and useless.

I'm going to ask you to take a step back and divorce yourself from the emotional ties you've invested into this plot and this fight. Consider what I've said, and let's see what we can arrange.

[Catalyst]

Look, here is the simplest and easiest way to say this the, by the time of this story Catalyst's mentor is going to rank 4, as premotions and laws being written and such.

That being said, he would be the highest ranking person in nova afairs in the area. His word would be surmountable to the law in this afair. The other novas working for the US would be following orders from him or would have to well deal with the shit when it hits the fan.

I have to go now.I will write more

But the death thing was about the problem of having no NPC agtaganists.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Catalyst

Look, here is the simplest and easiest way to say this the, this: by the time of this story, Catalyst's mentor is going to be rank 4, as premotions promotions and laws being written and such.

That being said, he would be the highest ranking person in nova afairs in the area. His word would be surmountable to the law in this afair affair. The other novas working for the US would be following orders from him or would have to well deal with the shit when it hits the fan.

Ok, let me see if I have this right. Your mentor, and the only NPC you want to have control over, would be the one in charge of the situation. Any nova that wanted to help would have to obey his orders, including PU and any independants? And that the penalties for not following him would be legal repercussions, probably dealt with after the crisis is done?

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

But the death thing was about the problem of having no NPC agtaganists antagonists.

Wrong. I use NPCs as antagonists all the time, and primarily non-canon NPCs. I prefer them over PC antagonists, actually, because I can do whatever I wish to them. While I really enjoyed my beatdown with the Morrigan and WR, it was a ton of work. Compared to the fight scene with Dragon-Saori, which was just me working alone, it was a lot of effort. Also, I can control the whole thing, and no one cares if I kill them.

[Tempest]

You know what? This is pointless. What started as a cool idea has devolved into petty nitpicking on ALL sides, myself included. So this is going to be my last post in this topic.

If this event happens the only one of my 2009 characters that will be in any way involved is Chase Hardin. He live and works in LA so this will directly affect him. You folks can write whatever the hell you want. If anything I read seems Canon breaking or just plain stupid I'll just chalk it up as a non-canon fiction and ignore all other references to it.

Thank you.

[Courier]

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

The only NPCs I am laying any claim to is Carlos and his actions, the rest are well up to anyone else.

Fine.

And just to double check, while Carlos may be legally powerful, he is NOT a Q6 monster, or 75+ nova point monster?

[Y.T.]

Carlos is not "powerful". He has low levels of mega, mainly with physical but nothing over 3, he can heal, fly and is a minor precog.

[Y.T.]

So, you want NPCs when you want them...How you want them. I set up a setting where there was antagonists to many sides. The US side being not only anti-Utopia but interested in gaining a tighter grip on power of novas. Utopia not only is interested in helping others but also in stretching it power over first world nations.

Earthquakes are interesting things in that most damage done during them is damage that is either not repairable or not in need of super fast fixes. Most people who die in first world areas due to earthquakes die rather fast.Like mintues.Damage to buildings get repaired well on the time table of what they want to. In 1989 Santa Cruz was hit by an earthqauke, and there are still places where you can see the damage.

So this whole thing about waiting to settle political issues is some what funny to me. The damage is done and is unlikely to get any worse. There is time to talk..Unless you think that repairing phone lines is something more important than having super power vigilantism.

[Courier]

Quote:

So, you want NPCs when you want them...How you want them.

Something like that. Mentor 4 can reasonably buy the Governor (Govenator?) of California. That gives legal authority in spades.

Pax is an NPC designed to run roughshod over PCs. He’s got the physical and legal ability to ram pretty much anything down anyone’s throat. He does not, can not, show up in this type of environment where everything is run by the PCs.

As originally introduced, and granted, it might indeed have been an error of perception on my part, Carlos was going to be Pax-light, also built with both the physical and legal authority to ram things down PCs’ throats. This as a concept isn’t a good thing.

[Catalyst]

That was not Carlos, that was more of a NPc that Carlos was going to have on call..Not that same NPCs.

Carlos is second in Command of the FBI department of Nova affairs West Coast. I was thinking that department would form it's own agency, or it would have special rights in times such as this. He would have special powers such as how the head FEMA had powers to call on a lot of resources but only in limited ways.

[Courier]

Ah. Fair enough then.

[Seph OOC]

Just wanted to point something out. In the Directive book, in the introductory articles regarding how the Directive was formed, it says explicitly that the US government recruited novas for its own national insterests. I'm unsure at the moment as to whether it ever said there was an actual "team", but it states baldly that there were several nova recruits culled from various arms of the military and the private sector.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Catalyst

That was not Carlos, that was more of a NPc that Carlos was going to have on call..Not that same NPCs.

Would that NPC still be "Pax-light, also built with both the physical and legal authority to ram things down PCs’ throats? (thanks for the nice quote, Dr. T.)"

Originally Posted By: Seph OOC

Just wanted to point something out. In the Directive book, in the introductory articles regarding how the Directive was formed, it says explicitly that the US government recruited novas for its own national insterests. I'm unsure at the moment as to whether it ever said there was an actual "team", but it states baldly that there were several nova recruits culled from various arms of the military and the private sector.

I'll have to look into this. This may be the source of the "US Nova Team" Dreamer and I were arguing about several months ago. However, there is a difference between acknowledging that the US gov't has NPC novas working for it (something that I've never disagreed with, in principle) and having a 'US Team' of novas (which I'd never heard of in Aberrant).

[Courier]

RE: Brickman

I've laid the groundwork for him to be on the spot.

RE: US Nova Team

Page 46, core book. Interestingly the title of the page is "Elites". That's year 2000. The implication is that the USArmy does actually have a team.

Page 47, also core book, the timeline is now 2007, and now we have Elites as typically defined... and the US Team is never heard from again.

[Dawn OOC]

I apologize for the double post; I found YT's post after my above post.

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

So, you want NPCs when you want them...How you want them. I set up a setting where there was antagonists to many sides. The US side being not only anti-Utopia but interested in gaining a tighter grip on power of novas. Utopia not only is interested in helping others but also in stretching it power over first world nations.

No one is arguing against what you are proposing, just how you're proposing it come about.

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

Earthquakes are interesting things in that most damage done during them is damage that is either not repairable or not in need of super fast fixes. Most people who die in first world areas due to earthquakes die rather fast.Like mintues.Damage to buildings get repaired well on the time table of what they want to. In 1989 Santa Cruz was hit by an earthqauke, and there are still places where you can see the damage.

In California, the buildings are built to withstand earthquakes. Fewer people die than normal. For example, 1989 Loma Prieta earthquake was a 6.9 and caused 70 deaths. By comparison, on 12/26/03, a 6.6 in Iran killed 31,000.(1) Of course, there are other factors that influence these numbers, but the lower fatality rate for the 1989 quake strongly reflects California's quake technology.

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

So this whole thing about waiting to settle political issues is some what funny to me. The damage is done and is unlikely to get any worse. There is time to talk..Unless you think that repairing phone lines is something more important than having super power vigilantism.

And I disagree. You're greatly downplaying the impact that a major quake, centered on a major US city will have. There will be, at worst, buildings collapsing, fires burning, widespread looting and rioting and a fatality rate in the hundreds. Even in CA with all their preparedness and tech, if the "Big One" comes, then it will be a disaster.

In the heart of a disaster, things are usually crazy for a short time, then they get better, more organized. That's what I'm talking about when I mention the 3-4 days before the US boots PU. They literally have better things to do than get immediately political.

And that's entirely aside from the NPC issue. Which, from the posts above, you still think we need. I'd rather the PCs do it, personally.

---------------------

1. Largest and Deadliest Earthquakes by Year, U.S. Geological Survey, http://earthquake.usgs.gov/regional/world/byyear.php

[Ravenshire]

Whenever possible, ALL international aid organizations contact the central authority, asking if they can help out. They don't just show up. That is very much illegal.

What the central authority does is waive visa requirements and the like so the aid agency can move in with all alacrity. Worse case, there is some bureaucrat/politico whose ass is on the line here. They don't want to say "no" when voters and future voters are at stake. In the best case, there is genuine concern about getting the most help to the people who need it.

So, either the US says "yes" and then there is no grounds for the stand-off, or the US says "no" and Utopia doesn't show up.

Now, the Utopians could call the governor of Cali and get his/her permission, expecting the governor to clear it with the Federal Government. In that case, the Federal novas are jumping the gun and are in the wrong when they have their confrontation with the Utopians.

Expect the sitting President to lose heavily in California during the next election.

[Dawn OOC]

Originally Posted By: Ravenshire

Whenever possible, ALL international aid organizations contact the central authority, asking if they can help out. They don't just show up. That is very much illegal.
What the central authority does is waive visa requirements and the like so the aid agency can move in with all alacrity. Worse case, there is some bureaucrat/politico whose ass is on the line here. They don't want to say "no" when voters and future voters are at stake. In the best case, there is genuine concern about getting the most help to the people who need it.

So, either the US says "yes" and then there is no grounds for the stand-off, or the US says "no" and Utopia doesn't show up.
Now, the Utopians could call the governor of Cali and get his/her permission, expecting the governor to clear it with the Federal Government. In that case, the Federal novas are jumping the gun and are in the wrong when they have their confrontation with the Utopians.
Expect the sitting President to lose heavily in California during the next election.

Good points. I hadn't considered this angle. So the story, as it's been plotted thus far, isn't very realistic.

What about my idea; the US takes the support for a few days for appearance's sake, then asks PU to leave, setting up the confrontation?

[Y.T.]

Utopia overthrew a sovereign nation state...I really don't think they are much of the asking type.

[Stardust]

Originally Posted By: Y.T.

Utopia overthrew a sovereign nation state...I really don't think they are much of the asking type.

They overthrew a sovereign nation that was not a member of and was sanctioned by the UN under the UN's orders. This is very much different from disrespecting US laws, when the US is a permanent member of the UN security council. Apart from anything else, PU is not stupid.

Now, because my intention is not to shoot down the whole idea, the US could give PU permission to assist and then attempt to assert a stringent and limiting authority over Project operatives, thus starting a sort of political staring contest and sparking tensions between US and PU field operatives. However, neither of the two factions would make any deliberate "show of quantum force" by fielding powerful novas and, I believe, would pointedly avoid it. I mean, having Pax and a US uber-nova frowning and circling each other would be the political equivalent of waving nuclear warheads in your rival's face and the social equivalent of the local police getting in a shootout with the federal police. Not realistic at all.

I suggest the event continue, and the focus being on characters wanting to help and being both frustrated and confused by the stringency of US bureaucracy enforced to keep both PU and independent novas from exerting much of their power and influence.

[Catalyst]

That could work..See this why i started this thing now and not say may!

[Catalyst]

Okay here is what I think will happen.

The US let's Utopia aid in the aftermath, but only if Utopia agree to take orders from the US line of command.

Independent novas would like wise have to follow those rules. Seeing as there is only one US nova player character that is part of the government I would likely say there would be NPCs, the PCs as such could largely work with PCs..With a bit of work.

[Catalyst]

So let's say may 13th? Any ideas who should open this thing up?will this thing get shot down?And who is interested in playing in this?

[Courier]

Brick will be there, he'll be at Disney Land (World?) when the quake hits and will get sucked into the chaos. After that I'll play it by ear.

[Catalyst]

~10 Am PST may 13th, 2009 a 7.1 earth quake hits the LA basin. Lasts just under a minute. Within two

hours Californian novas show up. Utopia is asking for permission to send aid.. Within four hours. Utopia has sent a team in most like T2M Americas, maybe part of the Pacific team. The Us authorities on the ground demand that Utopia work threw their chain of Command.

Indy novas would be asked to report for duty, but be given more slack than Utopia.

[James "Spartan" Duke]

I've never been in an Earthquake before but are they usually under a minute in length? I wouldn't think that would be enough time to devistate an earthquake ready city like LA.

Also what level on the richtor scale are we talking about?

[Catalyst]

They are short, a minute is a long one. The one that hit Santa Cruz in 89 was like 30 secs..

[Courier]

How close is Disney to "the LA basin"?

[Good Alice]

It is in it.THe LA Basin is HUGE! Really it is basicly the greater LA area.

[Warren Verona]

You realize that a quake lasting almost a minute would have to be a small one. If it's to high on the scale it could level L.A. literally. And there wouldn't be enough novas in the world to stop it.

How high are you planning on making this thing? Personally I think any thing over a 5.0 (enough destructive power for a 30-32kt explosion, that's more than what most atomic bombs yield) and you've wiped out L.A. Not because of the magnitude, but due to the time.

[BlackThorn]

How about a pretty intense one of limited duration? Maybe someone here knows a seismologist, or knows somebody who knows somebody, or something like that. Basically, we want a telling natural disaster that DOES NOT fundementally reshape the world. Anything that levels LA sends the US economy down the toilet in a hurry, so that's not a good idea. Likewise, we want something more than a few glasses being shifted off the coffee table.

Looks like I should look up earthquakes, eh?

[Robert J. Lambert]

7.1 Ritcher Scale Earthquake that lasts almost a minute? Might just split California away from the continent and create a volcano, a pretty damn tall one. It's just THAT massive.

On the other hand, as an example on September 19 of 1985 an 8.1 Earthquake hit Mexico city for about 15 seconds at max, and the shaking continues for over 4 minutes, it totaled 500+ buildings and upwards of 30,000 were killed.

Mexico city is not a city that gets big earthquakes a lot, the buildings were not ready for it and that's part of the reason the desctrution toll was so high.

---------------

That said, I would say that L.A. has specific zoning laws to prevent Earthquake damage, to this I would say a 7.1 Earthquake for 20-25 seconds should be enough to cause structural damage, split water, electrical and gas pipes and to maybe crack the concrete of some streets.

On top that, you are forgetting about the Aftershocks. Quakes never come alone, they come in pairs and sometimes triplets so while a single 7.0 Earthquake can't do as much damage, how about a a 7.0 followed bya a 6.5 followed by a 6.0?

The other two just hit the battered buildings over to finish the job really.

An Earthquake dosen't have to be huge to be deadly, just have an earthquake that hits things like hospitals, fire departments and schools as hard as you want, the city becomes paralized...

What do you guys think about that?

[Catalyst]

Well, let's change the time then. I was working with bad data.

Ten of the fifteen largest earthquakes in the United States have occurred in Alaska, and eight of the fifteen largest in the continental United States have occurred in California. Recent earthquakes that affected the United States include the Feb., 1971, movement of the San Fernando fault near Los Angeles. It rocked the area for 10 sec, thrust parts of mountains 8 ft (2.4 m) upward, killed 64 persons, and caused damage amounting to $500 million. In 1989, the Loma Prieta earthquake above Santa Cruz shook for 15 seconds at an intensity of 7.1, killed 67 people, and toppled buildings and bridges. In Jan., 1994, an earthquake measuring 6.6 with its epicenter in N Los Angeles caused major damage to the city's infrastructure and left thousands homeless.

So let's say 7.0 And roughly 10-20 secs.( I think 10 is enough to get a lot of damage, and 20 would be just bigger cause ti can be)

[Robert J. Lambert]

I think you are on the right track now =D

[BlackThorn]

Cool Beans.

[Warren Verona]

A 7.0 earthquake has the capacity to level several square miles of area. Its destructive power has a seismic yield of about 47 - 53mt (megatons).

That's a damage on a scale equal to the Russians' 'Ivan Bomb'. Ivan was detonated and had a blast radius of nearly 4.6km. (Nagasaki was .2km, if that helps you to understand the level of damage this quake could do).

All in all 20 seconds of a 7.0 earthquake would have novas and baselines beside themselves with grief as this event would most likely be a disaster on par with the Twin Towers.

[Robert J. Lambert]

Not so much Rev, remember that Nuclear bomb damage is made mostly out of air pressure and heat waves.

While an Earthquake destruction is based on the "land waves" created by the shaking. It's not the same type of destruction.

What the Ritcher Scale means when they do that Comparison to the "Tsar" Bomb is the amount of Joules (Yes! That inane unit you learned once on Physics that nobody but physist care about anymore! >_>) that is created on the shaking.

As I said, Mexico City was hit by an 8.1 Earthquake for about 4 minutes and as far as I know, the capital city of my country is still bustling and standing. =D

[Catalyst]

And do you think that T2M would get there in less than 4 hours, counting the time it takes to cut threw red tape?

Governments take time to deside, and paper work take times. It takes time for the governor to call it a state of emrancy, call up the president. They would go at it for a wile. So it is a big thing. huge. When the 7.1 hit Loma Prieta we lost some dishes and got a crack in out chimney...

[Warren Verona]

Originally Posted By: Catalyst

And do you think that T2M would get there in less than 4 hours, counting the time it takes to cut threw red tape?

Governments take time to deside, and paper work take times. It takes time for the governor to call it a state of emrancy, call up the president. They would go at it for a wile. So it is a big thing. huge. When the 7.1 hit Loma Prieta we lost some dishes and got a crack in out chimney...

There would be very little red tape. In the age of novas I'd say an hour maybe an hour and a half?

[Ravenshire]

Some help here: What would be the status of novas with American citizenship who work for Project Utopia?