Charges.

[Wakinyan]

I am pondering posting some polls based on Waki's trial around the events of Entrapment. Letting the players here decide his guilt or innocence as well as what kind of punishment he will recieve because of it.

Right now I am trying to pull together everything he will be charged with. I know a lot has been discussed on this on the chat but I want it down here so I can consolidate and start going through them.

Keep in mind we are going to debate right or wrong in this thread only what a D.A. would charge Waki with.

[April Rice]

Some of these might be more for civil suits or whatever - I don't really know the specifics.

He definitely gets aggravated assault, possibly with a kidnapping charge (it's a stretch, but the prosecution would probably at least try). Attempted rape isn't out of the question, either, depending on how Carver testifies. Harassment charges for immediate and less recent events could figure in.

He could get second degree attempted murder, though the fact that he brought Carver in to the Knights might get him off for that (again, prosecution would probably try, defense might get it thrown out).

Destruction of public property and aggravated assault upon officers of the law. I'm not sure if you can get charged for 'attempted' third-degree murder (accidental manslaughter), but if so, the glass he shattered would qualify.

I suspect that a good lawyer could get anything after that thrown out, since he was leaving the scene when Jager attacked him.

Five counts of third-degree murder could go to either Wakinyan or Jager (Wakinyan landed where he did because Jager put him there). Additional charges could be stacked on top of that from all of the injuries - whatever the accidental equivalent of aggravated assault is. Plus destruction of public property.

There may be additional nit-picky charges related to fleeing the scene of a crime or what have you. I'm not sure.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

The civil suits are going to be the most interesting for Wakinyan, possibly his tribe, the WCK and the City of Chicago.

People are going to smell money. Nothing good comes of that.

Imagine the possibility of getting a slice of a novas earning potential. It doesn't what kind of bank they have, only what kind of bank they could have because they're novas.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

True in theory, in practice I suspect the major nova organizations have gotten laws passed and/or made law with nova lawyers to prevent it.

[Magus]

Aberrant: Project Utopia mentions the danger of lawsuits. So does the player guide.

Thought you folks might like to know that.

[Singularity]

Heh, and I come here to get away from the law.

Here's a lightning quick outline of problems here (I seriously considered treating this like an exam question and writing the essay for it but, come on, how is that recreation time?).

Carver may be liable for negligence, battery, trespassing, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and loss of consortum.

Jager may be liable within the WCK's contract with Chicago. He also may be liable for negligence. His manslaughter liability could be negated by his status with the WCK and Chicago but that's a very complex issue.

Amped may be liable for both criminal assault, air space violation, and battery.

Alchemist may be liable for aiding and abetting Amped in the assault but his status in the WCK complicates matters (as it would for Jager).

Oddly, April hasn't seem to have breached any criminal laws or any duties of care.

Nor has Neil, who popped into Chicago in a public place.

Samhra and Singularity may be liable for trespassing, assault (Singularity), battery (Samhra), air space violation (Samhra), and entering the country illegally.

And the big daddy, Wakinyan. We've got: battery, false imprisonment, intentional and unintentional infliction of emotional distress, criminal assault, attempted murder, gross negligence, numerous counts of manslaughter, willful destruction of property, some kind of resisting arrest/obstruction of justice, and a whole slew of stuff I might be forgetting.

If it helps, Illinois is one of the states that follows parts of the Model Penal Code and you can find several of the criminal charges there. But as for the civil charges... that's a mess of common law.

Or more simply: everyone involved could end up in court or a deposition on civil or criminal matters and it's almost a guarantee that some will end up in court.

[April Rice]

"Oddly, April hasn't seem to have breached any criminal laws or any duties of care."

Score! ( ;

[Ptesan-Wi]

Two additional folks for charges:

Noir could be tagged with aiding and abetting Wakinyan by teleporting him away.

Thoughtwave is in line for communicating a threat, if someone wants to get really picky.

[kestrel404]

Noir will be very hard to ID, which is probably why she wasn't listed.

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Singularity:
Carver may be liable for negligence, battery, trespassing, intentional infliction of emotional distress, and loss of consortum.

I get and agree with negligence, battery and intentional infliction of emotional distress. But loss of consortum? From my limited understanding of the law, that means:

Quote:

Consortium
Consortium is the legal term for conjugal or marital relations between spouses. In civil suits based on injuries, the uninjured spouse may have a claim for loss of consortium because the injured spouse cannot perform marital duties. Loss of consortium claims are derivative in nature.

Carver and Waki weren't married or even dating. I'm just curious if there's some deeper meaning to this law that isn't covered by my source.

Also, trespassing? Is that referring to the getting on top of the roof? Would she be liable since she didn't actively move herself there?

I'm not arguing if you say so, Sing, cause you be the Law-Man. I'm just trying to make sure I understand what my character could be facing.

Thanks for the info!

source: http://www.legal-term.com/

[kestrel404]

I'm just guessing here, but I think he was referring to the attempted castration.

As for the trespassing, I have no idea.

[Singularity]

The loss of consortium claim would be brought by Thoughtwave against Carver for any inability of Wakinyan to perform marital duties to Thoughtwave (which includes, but isn't limited to, sex).

Also, trespassing is a strict liability tort. Even accidently walking into someone's land when you think it's public property counts as trespassing. However, there are some limited exceptions (like you end up in that land because your car or plane crashed) which have exceptions to themselves (like you don't leave the private property right away after crashing).

And oopsies about Noir, I forgot her.

Noir may be liable for some kind of accomplice to Wakinyan's fleeing of the scene and she may be liable for breaking US and Australian entry and exit laws. Obviously, Wakinyan would be liable for those things too since he was along for the ride.

Bear in mind again this is all loose observation of the situation and these are only claims that could be brought, not ones that would necessarily be won. It's all a gigantic academic hypothetical right now.

[Jordan]

Sing dude, you are having way too much fun...

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jordan Rossi:
Sing dude, you are having way too much fun...

Oh, I've only barely gotten started.

[Bahamut810]

Are Thoughtwave and Waki actually married?

[Singularity]

Some successful cases of loss of consortium have involved non-married parties and both Thoughtwave and Wakinyan have acted like they're married.

And, as I said before, these are charges that might be raised. You can file a charge and have it fail, after all.

[Wakinyan]

Only by common law. They never legally married.

She is 16 after all..

Oops another charge for WAKI!

[Bahamut810]

I dont think you can enter a common law marrage untill you are the age of consent. Of course that is all up to state law.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

And whether Thoughtwave is considered an emancipated adult or still a minor under the control of a guardian or parent. For the fun of adding another layer of complexity: if they are on Wakinyan's reservation there are tribal and federal laws, as well as treaties, to consider. Loss of consortum may be a valid charge.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:
Loss of consortum may be a valid charge.

Well, I should clarify my prior misuse of terms. Consortium is a tort, which would be a claim and not a charge. It'd be up to Thoughtwave to bring the charge but she'd have to prove a whole pile of things (and to touch on analysis, as it looks like right now, probably won't be possible).

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I misspoke. Not a legal person here. Nothing to see. Just move along.

[Wakinyan]

Now that Waki is allowing extradition to take place where will he be held? I doubt Chicago has a setup for Novas so is it going to be WCK who hold him?

[kestrel404]

The WCK is only holding White Rat because no one else wants him at the moment, and Alchemist got special dispensation for it.

It's a lot more likely you'll be held by the Directive, or if you're really behaving yourself, a local prison. You may be guarded by elites, though.

[Bahamut810]

Hmmm....Elites, eh?

[Ptesan-Wi]

Presumably, Wakinyan would be held in a solitary cell in Division 11 of the Cook County Dept. of Corrections (Division 11 being both the most modern and most secure facility in the county's jurisdiction). Odds are that, in the time from 1998 to 2015, at least a small number of such cells -- perhaps a half-dozen -- have been significantly reinforced.

[Bahamut810]

I would think tehy would have a new wing. I dont know if any of you guys are Heroes Unlimited fans, but there is a suppliment called "Grammercy Island" that is about a super-human jail-house. Think Alcatraz for supervillians.

If you want I can post some generals from it that could be incorporated (such as robotic centries, power dampeners and such).

[Wakinyan]

At the moment I will figure Cook County will try to hold him. The Elite guards is a good idea. Perhaps also a few Alchemist concoctions to keep him controllable as well.

[kestrel404]

Alchemist would be willing to supply Mox (he makes his own), but we've already seen how much of an effect THAT has on Wakinyan. For more potent stuff, he would claim he hasn't made any. (See 'Behind closed doors' in the fiction section)

Bahamut: There are two such facilities in Canon. One is controlled by the directive (the Lost City, or something like that), and the other one by project Utopia/Proteus (Bahrain). Other than that, it's pretty much an ad-hoc, whatever we needed before or can afford now sort of deal. At least, that's how it works in my mind.

Thoughtwave: I doubt they have more than one or two re-inforced cells, unless you mean cells that will stand up to mite-addicts (enough to withstand 1 mega-strength). Those they would probably have at least a dozen of, but they probably wouldn't be big enough for Waki's base form (at least not comfortably).

Wakinyan: I'm curious, what do you think about bail? There's a good possibility you're just going to be denied bail outright, but since there's virtually no way they can keep you from escaping anyway, it might just be granted until your trial.

[Bahamut810]

I dont think that 'The jail wont hold him so we wont bother making him post bail' would work. Nova's are 'normal people' after all, and normal people dont (and *cant*) get that courtesy.

[kestrel404]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of 'The jail won't hold him, so we won't bother denying him bail'.

It's a lot less expensive in the long run if he jumps bail than if he smashes his way out of prison.

[Wakinyan]

Well the question on wether or not he will be given bail might be a good Poll question. Really Chicago would have to invest large resources in holding him. And it might not be worthwhile because they basically have to take his 'word' that he wont leave anyway. Otherwise they will have to spend literally millions on a Nova that really they do not have to.

[Singularity]

The Forgotten City, Alchemist.

As for adequate facilities: Wakinyan and I discussed this earlier and there are a few ways to approach this. From what I've seen in my experience, courts and jurisdictions will "board out" some inmates, depending on any number of variables. For example, the federal district court here puts up its defendants in a jail two counties over instead of the county where it sits or the one in between. Obviously, in this case, Wakinyan would generate a need for a more secure facility. This is often where the Directive and Utopia step in (per what's been stated and implied in the various books). However, neither of them (apparently) have a detention center inside the jurisdiction (Illinois) so we're stuck looking at equivalent places. That's what brings in the WCK.

If law enforcement had its way, Wakinyan would be moxed to the gills (as in to the point where it's actually effective on him), dumped in a gigantic and super-reinforced tank of Klot, kept unconscious, and protected from every imaginable quantum field out there. But, since Wakinyan has certain civil liberties and (last I knew) a deal gained through his surrender, he'd probably get a constantly monitored (visual, audio, air pressure, scent, quantum, etc) cell large enough for his bulk (I would assume the WCK have a room big enough for that), tagged with something radioactive enough for tracking and inert enough to not be popped out by his healing or destroyed by EMPs et al, some spatial distortion dampening fields (or just general quantum dampening fields), an instant Klot and mox-like subdual chemical deployment system designed to go off if Wakinyan even breathes the wrong way while summoning hordes of guards (like elites, Directive, Utopia, or whomever appropriate), and god knows what else I'm forgetting. (most of this stuff would really apply if Wakinyan was actually serving a sentence as opposed to being at trial) But Wakinyan should be able to have some visitors (his lawyer at the very least) and be able to use a heavily monitored and limited OpNet connection.

The key thing to remember is that law enforcement won't play fair in holding someone as dangerous as Wakinyan and will prepare for as many things as possible. Containing him is within their abilities, even if they have to ship him back and forth between Illinois and whatever facility (though it'd be easier if the WCK allowed them to modify some things), hence it's really unlikely they wouldn't remand him until trial. Wakinyan is just too big of a flight risk (pardon the pun), especially considering his known associates.

But, if the ol' furball is lucky, his time spent in custody during the trial could be credited against whatever his sentence is if he's convicted.

[kestrel404]

Well, if the city asks, Al can build a cell that might hold Wakinyan (as long as it's properly monitored and guarded). It would probably end up a hundred feet under Al's lab, with a simple elevator shaft the only entrance/exit. Far from a perfect solution, but the best one he'd be able to come up with on very short notice.

If that's what Wakinyan wants to do, that's fine by me.

[Wakinyan]

That will likely be the best solution I can think of offhand.

All things considered though Waki isn't planning on coming out of a human shape until all of this is said and done.

[Ptesan-Wi]

If he can stay in his human form for the duration, that's dandy. Looks better to whatever judge he'll be seeing, to the DA, and -- if it goes to trial rather than a plea bargain -- to the jury.

[Amped]

Bandwidth's lab would be available now, and shouldn't be too difficult to convert into a holding cell.

It would definitely be shielded from EMP after his last episode with having to rebuild all his equipment.

It could also be blast protected. Being paranoid and all most of his equipment was made to be able to self destruct if required.

It also had a very sturdy security system of his own design.

Just a thought.

[Bahamut810]

If you want an elite guard, Lodestone is available and in the area.

[Wakinyan]

Actually ya know WCK might want to consider that. They do have more than 1 badguy in the brig at current.

Now if they would just hire Ally there wouldn't be a problem here.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Singularity:
Or more simply: everyone involved could end up in court or a deposition on civil or criminal matters and it's almost a guarantee that some will end up in court.

This is one of the reasons Troll stopped killing people.

Quote:

Singularity:
Nor has Neil, who popped into Chicago in a public place.

Disagree strongly. Popping out of someone’s chest/stomach doesn’t sound like a public place to me.

Quote:

Wakinyan:
Well the question on wether or not he will be given bail might be a good Poll question. Really Chicago would have to invest large resources in holding him. And it might not be worthwhile because they basically have to take his 'word' that he wont leave anyway. Otherwise they will have to spend literally millions on a Nova that really they do not have to.

Sorry dude, but I don’t think they have a choice but to hold you. They have an extremely dangerous nova who got beat with the taint stick and who has a long history of mental problems including violent episodes like the one just now. Assume for the moment that they let you out on bail, and you kill another dozen or two dozen people. Question: Just how stupid do the police and the mayor of Chicago end up looking?

Quote:

Wakinyan:
But, since Wakinyan has certain civil liberties and (last I knew) a deal gained through his surrender,

What exactly was the deal? If it didn’t specifically say, “He won’t go to Bahrain”, then that’s probably where he goes. If it doesn’t specifically say, “He won’t be kept unconscious”, then that’s probably what happens.

Another way to hold him however would be to put him out in a field somewhere in a cage next to a small nuke. He breaks the cage, the nuke goes off. Granted, him being a shapechanger adds complexity to this, but only a bit.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Disagree strongly. Popping out of someone’s chest/stomach doesn’t sound like a public place to me.

He jumped out of someone's stomach? Freaking weirdo teleporters.

Anyways, that means that Neil could be liable for battery (but could be subject to a any number of exceptions, as would a good portion of the things I mentioned above).