opnet [OpNet] What's the big deal?

[Timeslip]

Quote:

All novas considering themselves "homo sapiens novus" get on that spaceship and GTFO, and those of us that consider ourselves human can stay here. Because quite frankly I'm tired of seeing the Terat rhetoric every time I log on, particularly from those who don't want to hear the other side for fear of getting into a flame war. (Proycon, I'm looking in your direction...)

I'll offer a counter-proposal. How about you and yours accept that you are no longer human, and sit down with the rest of us in an effort to chart a course for our race, a course that will allow us to grow into our potential and free us from as many of our ancestors' problems as possible?

You have been a friend of and to my husband for many years. You know that he has accepted his transcendence of humanity, and you know as well that he is not a terrorist, or a rapist, or a child molester. I can assure you that I am none of the above as well. We are simply honest about what we are, and are willing to pursue those possibilities that are before us.

Come and have dinner with us, Typhoon; be willing to at least sit and talk with us about what can be. I'm certain that Long would be happy to see you again, and I am always interested in meeting long-time friends of his.

[Fracture]

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhoon:
Okay, how about this compromise:

All novas considering themselves "homo sapiens novus" get on that spaceship and GTFO, and those of us that consider ourselves human can stay here. Because quite frankly I'm tired of seeing the Terat rhetoric every time I log on, particularly from those who don't want to hear the other side for fear of getting into a flame war. (Proycon, I'm looking in your direction...)

If you do a Opnet search for the words "Null Manifesto" vs. "Zurich Accord" you'll see what I mean.

And as far as the baselines screaming "Abberant!!, Monster!!, Freak!!" I think you're putting the cart before the horse on that one, I don't think we'd be in that particular situation as badly if your friends in the Terragen wern't acting like terrorists, rapists, and child molesters. I'm making the assuption here that some of them arn't actually.

As many have said before me, the Teragen is the result of the current situation, not the cause of it. Believing that without the Teragen, everything would be happy smiley hippie lovey is ignoring the obvious.

[Mithril]

All we need to do is figure out a way for two sentient species to share the same reality in peace.

Fat effing chance, people. Humanity couldn't even live in peace when they had all of reality to themselves. Because there was no "other" for them to war against, they divided into factions and fought among themselves.

Is it any wonder some novas don't want to be considered human?

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
I'll offer a counter-proposal. How about you and yours accept that you are no longer human, and sit down with the rest of us in an effort to chart a course for our race, a course that will allow us to grow into our potential and free us from as many of our ancestors' problems as possible?

Because not all of us accept that conclusion. I certainly don't. I still feel human inside, that renders me to the same emotional vulnerablities that wish to free us from. But you can't separate us out from humanity. We came from them, and we are still of them, deep in our hearts. It's amazing how many "enlightened" Homo Sapiens novus still have a very human response to problems.

Quote:

Originally posted by Girl Made of Titanium:
Fat effing chance, people. Humanity couldn't even live in peace when they had all of reality to themselves. Because there was no "other" for them to war against, they divided into factions and fought among themselves.

Is it any wonder some novas don't want to be considered human?

So by giving up on working things out and elevating ourselves above humanity, we think that makes things better? And, again, novas have done the same thing we have accused the humans of: we have created factions and fought amongst ourselves. The Teragen. Project Utopia. XWF. QNA. All of these are groups that strive for very human ideals: freedom, the right to individualization, the right to have a good time, selfless service to others, the right to love and so many other things that human have done long before there were novas.

Is it any wonder that some novas are certain they are human?

[Y.T.]

Will novas make a new society? Yes. As to the why, it it are rather simple. My means far out stretch my needs. I can make a shelter with out help. I can grow more food than I need. I have no fear of beasts. I have no need for tools. I can live threw anything that weather can throw at me. If I get hurt I heal myself. This is true for most novas I know of.

Humans need society. We are not humans. We live in society because we want to. We do not need it.

[Typhoon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
I'll offer a counter-proposal. How about you and yours accept that you are no longer human, and sit down with the rest of us in an effort to chart a course for our race, a course that will allow us to grow into our potential and free us from as many of our ancestors' problems as possible?

You have been a friend of and to my husband for many years. You know that he has accepted his transcendence of humanity, and you know as well that he is not a terrorist, or a rapist, or a child molester. I can assure you that I am none of the above as well. We are simply honest about what we are, and are willing to pursue those possibilities that are before us.

Come and have dinner with us, Typhoon; be willing to at least sit and talk with us about what can be. I'm certain that Long would be happy to see you again, and I am always interested in meeting long-time friends of his.

I have no problem meeting with you, in fact I understand your kids are quite wonderful, I look forward to meeting them.

I have trusted Long since day-one and will continue to do so, but as a nova I feel we have a responsibility to ourselves, our forebears, and those that wil come after we are gone to co-exist as peacfully as we can with our surroundings, as novas we have too much power to have the excuse to say: "Fuck off, I'll do what I want." because despite the Nul Manifesto's PR we are as flawed as the rest of humanity, and you have to look no further than this very debate and the several hundred or so that came before it for evidence of that. We're not gods, I personally put my eufibre on one leg at a time and I'm pretty sure Mal does the same... naw he probably has some quantum ability to do it for him.

You would see us a species make it to see our potential, if we are human, perhaps we are already moving down that path, and I realize that you are not a terrorist and such but I simply do not see a future in my world for the likes of Geryon or Leviathan or others. I simply do not see them living out their potential peacfully.

I still think like a human, I still act largely the same way I did before my eruption, I even find the same jokes funny, I fall in love with the same type of woman every time I see her... Do not seek to rob me of my humanity.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fracture:
As many have said before me, the Teragen is the result of the current situation, not the cause of it. Believing that without the Teragen, everything would be happy smiley hippie lovey is ignoring the obvious.

I garuntee that I never said that, especially the part about 'hippy lovey" because those words simply are not in my vocabulary. I said things wouldn't be as bad. Hey if we (as novas) are superior to humans in every way, why can't we all get along? Why aren't Pax and Mal have a nice long walk discussing their differences like superior beings do?

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Endeavor:
Celtic? And what of the Kami? Are we chopped liver?

Um, Who? j/k
Japanese nature spirits right?
Hey, if it'll make ye happy I'll declare myself Lord of them as well.

[Ghostwriter]

Satyr, darling, honey-child...

It's age before beauty and ladies before gentlemen. On that premise, I believe I get first shot at being the Lady of the Tuatha De Danaan.

Besides, there's already a Horned Lord running around in England. Ever heard of Cernunnos?

[Fracture]

Hey if we (as novas) are superior to humans in every way, why can't we all get along? Why aren't Pax and Mal have a nice long walk discussing their differences like superior beings do?

Because biological superiority doesn't guarantee emotional or spiritual superiority? DUH.

[Typhoon]

Quote:

Originally posted by Fracture:


Because biological superiority doesn't guarantee emotional or spiritual superiority? DUH.

I think that Divis Mal would disagree.

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhra:
Satyr, darling, honey-child...

It's age before beauty and ladies before gentlemen. On that premise, I believe I get first shot at being the Lady of the Tuatha De Danaan.

Besides, there's already a Horned Lord running around in England. Ever heard of Cernunnos?

Have I heard of Cernunnos?
It's okay, I be running around Alba, he keeps off my grass, I keep off his.

But hey, if ye want to be my Lady, It's kinda sudden and I barely know you but, we may be able to work out a interview and I'll need a demonstration of your truiteag.

[Fracture]

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhoon:

Quote:

Originally posted by Fracture:


Because biological superiority doesn't guarantee emotional or spiritual superiority? DUH.

I think that Divis Mal would disagree.

Um, I doubt that. What he'd say is that biological superiority enables the possibility of spiritual and emtional superiority, and that every nova should find it in them to seek and attain them.

[Dr. Zero]

"Fat effing chance, people. Humanity couldn't even live in peace when they had all of reality to themselves. Because there was no "other" for them to war against, they divided into factions and fought among themselves.

Is it any wonder some novas don't want to be considered human?"

That is bunk... until recently, we shared the exact same history as humanity. Our race is only a few years old, a split from humanity. Human history is our history until just a few years ago. This statement is short sighted.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I would like to attempt to chart a slightly different course through this philosophic mine field.

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhoon:

All novas considering themselves "homo sapiens novus" get on that spaceship and GTFO, and those of us that consider ourselves human can stay here.

I imagine several earlier species in human evolution felt much the same though without the space ship imagery. You've touched on an issue very central to the entire Terat mindset as described within the Null Manifesto when the argument is taken to the ultimate conclusion: why should homo sapiens novus be the species forced to leave?

In other news; you are homo sapiens novus whether you choose to make a political or philosophical stand on that point. It is after all is said and done a scientific classification having little to do with politics or philosophy. However, for your peace of mind I would point out the opposite of Homo sapiens novus is not human, baseline or even Homo sapiens sapiens. There is no opposite since it is a scientific classification.

Also, since our species of humanity doesn't seem to be especially fertile, it seems premature to assume as a race we are independent of the other branch of humanity from which we've been springing. While our physically robust nature and sometimes greatly extended life spans off set our infertility to some degree, we aren't in a position to choose to step away from humanity entirely unless we're prepared to abandon any chance of creating a dynamic society let lone a perpetuating species. In other words; abandoning homo sapiens sapiens to "seek our own destiny" would be like the cuckoo deciding it no longer requires the nests of other birds in which to seclude its own eggs without any notion of what to do on its own.

[Mithril]

Quote:

That is bunk... until recently, we shared the exact same history as humanity. Our race is only a few years old, a split from humanity.

You contradict yourself. Either we share the same history as humanity, or our race is only a few years old. You can't have both. It's a contradiction.

I don't even have a high school diploma and I can see the logical flaw in your argument.

And I assure you that I am not human. I defy you to find so much as a chromosome in my body.

[Typhoon]

This will be my last post in this thread on this subject because I truly am not interested in making enemies out of friends, I think many of us can have a difference of opinion without it spilling into our daily lives and working relationships.

PM me if you want to continue it.

,,

Quote:

Originally posted by Fracture:

Um, I doubt that. What he'd say is that biological superiority enables the possibility of spiritual and emtional superiority, and that every nova should find it in them to seek and attain them.

The fact that Mal physically toyed with Pax while beating the hell out of him a few years ago doesn't speak to spiritual or emotional superiority.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:

I would like to attempt to chart a slightly different course through this philosophic mine field.

I imagine several earlier species in human evolution felt much the same though without the space ship imagery. You've touched on an issue very central to the entire Terat mindset as described within the Null Manifesto when the argument is taken to the ultimate conclusion: why should homo sapiens novus be the species forced to leave?

In other news; you are homo sapiens novus whether you choose to make a political or philosophical stand on that point. It is after all is said and done a scientific classification having little to do with politics or philosophy. However, for your peace of mind I would point out the opposite of Homo sapiens novus is not human, baseline or even Homo sapiens sapiens. There is no opposite since it is a scientific classification.

I'll freely admit my words there were somewhat harsh and polarizing, I apologize.

Simply put, if every friend of mine who viewed themselves as homo sapien novus were to leave, I'd lose quite a few close friends. That said, I must point out that the Null Manifesto was written in response to the Zurich Accord not vice verca, the UN resolution declaring all novas to be human beings with all the rights and responsibilities thereof. but, thats the rub of it, as a Terat they aren't bound by the international laws or those darn responsibilites... and thats where I could never be converted, really ask yourself: As a Nova, Terat, Utopian, or Aberrant. How will you be remembered?

The Zurich Accord makes me a Human being with all the rights and responsibilties therof, and we're damn lucky to have it; I have rarely heard a voice here on the boards give it the slightest bit of lip service.

[Fracture]

Well, I'm not your friend, and probably will never be your friend, so I don't have any problem keeping this up.

The fact that Mal physically toyed with Pax while beating the hell out of him a few years ago doesn't speak to spiritual or emotional superiority.

Interesting. And is this true of every enlightened master who allows the "young grasshopper" to try every maneuver and trick they have in their repertoire to defeat them, before demonstrating to the grasshopper just how much they haven't yet learned?

Sometimes we attempt to shatter egos by playing with our opponents before defeating them. This isn't done vindictively or cruelly, but in the hopes of giving one a level head once more.

But, I bet you think all Mal was doing was showing the world how much flappage he has, and that I'm wasting my time explaining this.

That said, I must point out that the Null Manifesto was written in response to the Zurich Accord

Sure, it was done so scant months after N-Day, by predominantly, if not exclusively, baseline minds, at a time when people feared novas and nobody really knew what to make of them, novas included. It was more a knee jerk reaction to an explosive situation than anything else. I'm not even going to touch upon how much influence the AEON Society had in its creation.

The Zurich Accord makes me a Human being with all the rights and responsibilties therof, and we're damn lucky to have it

Whooooa, boy. Look, Typhoon, the Zurich Accord doesn't MAKE you a human being any more than the Null Manifesto MAKES you an inhuman one. It's just a piece of paper with words on it, and if I have one with a nice fancy insignia on it that says I'm a frog, it doesn't make me a frog. You are what you are instrinsically, and this exists independently of some stupid little legal document. Even if the world went insane tomorrow and it turned out that yes, holy fuck, Novas really ARE human, it wouldn't be the Zurich Accord that made you that way. Unless you're chosing to define "human" in a completely legal sense, which is different from what most supporters of the Null Manifesto would define it as.

Or to but it another away, you can have court documents that say you're guilty of a certain crime, and people who believe those documents to be absolute may see you as a criminal.

But if you never committed the crimes in question, are you TRULY a criminal, or just seen as one by society. There's an important difference there.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Typhoon:
but, thats the rub of it, as a Terat they aren't bound by the international laws or those darn responsibilites... and thats where I could never be converted, really ask yourself: As a Nova, Terat, Utopian, or Aberrant. How will you be remembered?

Last question answered first; I hope to be remembered as the guy that inspired people to dare to accomplish what the conventional "wisdom" smugly asserted was "impossible".

As to the former question; I am a nova. It says so on the dust covers for my books and my publisher holds that to be a direct reason for an automatic sale of half a million of anything I'm likely to write. As far as Terat versus Utopian: is life really that simplistic? And have the Aberrrants ever done anything that wasn't done by any other terrorist group? Certainly they don't seem to care about the usual political and sociological targets but it was inevitable someone would eventually target Project Utopia in a similar manner.

[Ghostwriter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhra:
Satyr, darling, honey-child...

It's age before beauty and ladies before gentlemen. On that premise, I believe I get first shot at being the Lady of the Tuatha De Danaan.

Besides, there's already a Horned Lord running around in England. Ever heard of Cernunnos?

Have I heard of Cernunnos?
It's okay, I be running around Alba, he keeps off my grass, I keep off his.

But hey, if ye want to be my Lady, It's kinda sudden and I barely know you but, we may be able to work out a interview and I'll need a demonstration of your truiteag.

I'd imagine my partner would have plenty to say on that, m'boy.

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhra:
I'd imagine my partner would have plenty to say on that, m'boy.

Ah well, it was worth a try.
On a serious note I wouldn't mind sitting down and discussing our comapritive religious beliefs, as the old saying goes, 'Ask three pagans what paganism is about...

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:

Quote:

Originally posted by Samhra:
I'd imagine my partner would have plenty to say on that, m'boy.

Ah well, it was worth a try.
On a serious note I wouldn't mind sitting down and discussing our comapritive religious beliefs, as the old saying goes, 'Ask three pagans what paganism is about...

And why not ask three Christians what Christianity is about.

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
And why not ask three Christians what Christianity is about...

Well for starters, 'Ask three pagans...' is an old joke amongst we pagans. Although I do not recall the original source I have seen used for other religions, politics, and novas as well.
As I can tell you are unfamiliar with the joke, even so it is a stretch to call it such, it is:
'Ask three pagans what paganism is about and you will receive four answers.'
Also it is a rare day that I would need to ask a Christian since given the form I have worn since my eruption has given some ignorant Christians the impression that I be a foul beast of Lucifer, I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. I understand that those ignorant Christians are not in the majority, they are certainly some of the most verbal as it is a rare day that I do not get proselyted to on the street. They will quote the bible to me and ask me to accept Jesus, but all too often all they say is 'Suffer not a witch to live.' I believe that the word 'witch' here was more than likely intentionally mistranslated for the needs of the inquisition during the Burning Times.
I have been targeted by the Church of Michael Archangel on numerous occasions, once only barely escaping with me life.
I would hope that their version of Christianity differs greatly from yours, but just the same ye will have to forgive me for not asking them what Christianity is about, because I don't think it is about tolerance to them.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I'd call this thread creep but there does seem to be some correspondance with the original question, even if the questioner hasn't checked in of late.

Satyr, the problems some have had with the Church of Michael Archangel never cease to amaze me. During a recent project I'd interviewed parishioners, spoken at length with elements of the leadership and even spent a week in one of their closed communities. While I admit to receiving a cool reception; not once was there a gun fired in my vicinity let alone at me, a fist raised or children pulled off the street when I passed. And yet some of you have obviously had confrontational or even violent encounters. Although I'm no expert in the workings of this particular sect, that wasn't the nature of project I was engaged in, it appears there are obviously splinter groups under the over arching banner of the church co-existing with the more moderate elements. That may provide an insight into the growing polarization of views within the church. When a nova takes out their fears and frustrations on an entire group because they can't identify the specific individuals they actually have a problem with, then there is going to be an escalation.

[Mithril]

CoMA tried to murder me. They damned nearly succeeded. This colors my viewpoint of the organization, oh, just a tad.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

The Church of Michael Archangel didn't try to kill you. Some people belonging to that organization did. I'm sure you could find a corresponding relationship to the American Automotive Association, the Masons or parents if you want to look deeply enough. You've been through a horrible experience, one I sympathize with you greatly on, but entire communities didn't try to kill you. That is what I am pointing out.

By the same token I freely admit I don't like some points of the church's doctrine. In that I am in good company with the multitude finding fault with the Catholic Church's stance on any sexual orientation beyond plain vanilla Breeder existing within the sacrament of sanctified marriage.

[z-Carver]

I have had good and bad experiences with CoMA. One tried to kill me, and one tried to love me. I have seen both sides of the coin, and the one that loved me had reformed to the degree that he no longer believed the all of the Church's rhetoric. He died before me could succeed in this goal.

I know that this is cold comfort to those who have been attacked and harmed by CoMA, but in the end, they are just people, with hopes and fears, dreams and delusions. Too package them all in the same box is a disservice to them and to us.

[tOoN]

They changed a tire for me.

Nice boys.

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:
I'd call this thread creep but there does seem to be some correspondance with the original question, even if the questioner hasn't checked in of late.

Satyr, When a nova takes out their fears and frustrations on an entire group because they can't identify the specific individuals they actually have a problem with, then there is going to be an escalation.

It occoured to me that my post had next to nothing to do with the thread but the question was posed to me, I felt I should respond.

Excuse me? but where precisely in all that ye know of me have you found that I have taken out my fears an entire group?

While staying in New Orleans during Mardi Gras a few years ago, when I was lured by a gorgous creature into an ambush, four men aiming shotguns and quoting scripture with a Texan accent surrounded me and opened fire.
Now ye are right, I assume they were of CoMA, they didn't offer to show me their bible thumping licesenses, but they fit the profile, and I'll tell ye this, if it looks like a snake, smells like a snake and hisses like a snake, ye bloody don't reach down and pet it... unless ye are capable of commanding animals to do you bidding, and even then it's a bad idea.
Ye fail to mention is that many of first heard about CoMA was when they were suspected in connection with the brutal slaying of the Houston Tornado, a death they pointedly grieved very little over.

[Rush]

Ya gotta laugh at any group that'll call themelves Coma.

I've had a run-in with 'em. They decided to protest the garage. You know, stand out front with signs and stuff shoutin' about how they didn't want my kind in the neighbourhood? They never attacked me but I guess considerin' I can't be touched if I don't wanna they never bothered tryin'.

They did try to blockade the garage doors though. Must a freaked 'em right out when I ghosted the car and drove it through 'em into the garage 'cause they up and left not too long after.

Guess they figured if they couldn't hurt business too much, then why bother?

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:
It occoured to me that my post had next to nothing to do with the thread but the question was posed to me, I felt I should respond.

While I on the other hand found it related to the thread and therefore appropriate to comment on.

Quote:

Excuse me? but where precisely in all that ye know of me have you found that I have taken out my fears an entire group?

Surely you don't believe the comment was directed solely to you and your experience. I've had my own experiences that appear to have been very much unlike yours. Carver and Toon appear to have had experiences that were not entirely negative. The same can be said for Spartan's experience. The Church of Michael Archangel is spread across the United States with bastians of strength in both the Mid-West, South and South-West. True believers number in the hundreds of thousand with tangent or disassociated believers being suspected in numbers ranging from two million to thirty.

Satyr... this isn't about you. It is not about every nova on the planet that's had some experience they conveniently put under the label of "Church of Michael Archangel." It's about reality versus a convenient and easy to digest fiction.

Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to make that clear.

[Mithril]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:
The Church of Michael Archangel didn't try to kill you. Some people belonging to that organization did.

That is the most idiotic rationalization I have ever heard.

My mother was a member of CoMA at the time that a CoMA sniper blew my head off from a redoubt on her rooftop. Her local CoMA pastor was standing behind her as they watched from the front doorway.

After the attack, they fled to Yellowknife, where they were gunned down by the RCMP after they holed up in, guess what, a secluded cabin owned by the CoMA.

You cannot separate the two. Don't even try.

[Erin 'Stellar' Donovan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
Ya gotta laugh at any group that'll call themelves Coma.

I've had a run-in with 'em. They decided to protest the garage. You know, stand out front with signs and stuff shoutin' about how they didn't want my kind in the neighbourhood? They never attacked me but I guess considerin' I can't be touched if I don't wanna they never bothered tryin'.

They did try to blockade the garage doors though. Must a freaked 'em right out when I ghosted the car and drove it through 'em into the garage 'cause they up and left not too long after.

Guess they figured if they couldn't hurt business too much, then why bother?

Ghosted the car?

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Girl Made of Titanium:

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:
The Church of Michael Archangel didn't try to kill you. Some people belonging to that organization did.

That is the most idiotic rationalization I have ever heard.

My mother was a member of CoMA at the time that a CoMA sniper blew my head off from a redoubt on her rooftop. Her local CoMA pastor was standing behind her as they watched from the front doorway.

After the attack, they fled to Yellowknife, where they were gunned down by the RCMP after they holed up in, guess what, a secluded cabin owned by the CoMA.

You cannot separate the two. Don't even try.

No, Girl Made of Titanium, you cannot separate them, but Tommy and I apparently can. I can recognize that some members of CoMA are horrified by the violence perpetuated by some of their members. As I said before, I have seen both sides. In the end, CoMA is just an organization. It has members who commit crimes in its name, blackening both its name and God's name.

At least recognize this: that only some of the members have tried to kill both of us. To lump them together with those that are simply unwilling to embrace us freely does a disserve to them and to yourself.

[Rush]

Quote:

Originally posted by Erin 'Stellar' Donovan:
Ghosted the car?

What part of that are ya confused about?

[Ptesan-Wi]

Carver,

The Church of Michael Archangel is a good deal like that of Westboro Baptist Church a decade ago. It isn't the sort of church one seeks out because of a general spiritual questing; it's a single-issue church, and in the case of CoMA, that issue is to defame, denounce, and - in all to many instances - destroy those of us who are novas. CoMA has only been around for a bit over a decade, which those who are adult members joined the church...and they did so knowing the one issue that makes CoMA different from other religions.

Is it possible for some members of CoMA to be appalled at the actions of that church? Yes; however, because of the nature of the church, it is both rare and fleeting, as people with qualms about such things will either (1) leave the church, (2) be brought back into the fold with a changed mind, or (3) be attacked by their own brethren.

Yes, the Church of Michael Archangel is only an organization. But so was Westboro Baptist, and the Ku Klux Klan, and the Arian Nation, and any of a variety of other organizations based upon hatred of a particular demographic. All of these organizations are reprehensible, and those who are willingly members of these organizations are culpable for the sanctioned actions of these organizations.

[Erin 'Stellar' Donovan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:

Quote:

Originally posted by Erin 'Stellar' Donovan:
Ghosted the car?

What part of that are ya confused about?

What does "Ghosting the car" mean?

[Rush]

I turned the car desolid with me. What else would I mean?

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:
Surely you don't believe the comment was directed solely to you and your experience. I've had my own experiences that appear to have been very much unlike yours. Carver and Toon appear to have had experiences that were not entirely negative. The same can be said for Spartan's experience. The Church of Michael Archangel is spread across the United States with bastians of strength in both the Mid-West, South and South-West. True believers number in the hundreds of thousand with tangent or disassociated believers being suspected in numbers ranging from two million to thirty.

Satyr... this isn't about you. It is not about every nova on the planet that's had some experience they conveniently put under the label of "Church of Michael Archangel." It's about reality versus a convenient and easy to digest fiction.

Thank you for allowing me this opportunity to make that clear.

When ye say that Carver and Toon appear to have had experiences that were not entirely negative... Are ye high?

Carver's expereices with CoMA were at best 50/50, she neglected to mention if the baseline (note with awe how I do not refer to him as a member of CoMA.) who wanted to love her was little better than a stalker or not, nor did she mention the manner of his death, we can merely hope that others follow his lead and learn to think for themselves.
Toon on the other hand I'll go out on a limb and say that umm.. It(?) is fooking with us based on it's previous posts, and more than likely has never had an actual experience with them. How many novas do you know that require a car and cannot change their own tire?
As far as it not being a bout me, sadly, yes it be, as you are barking up me tree, not vice versa. When I was originally asked about Christianity by Y.T. I answered it based on me own experiences and no other, you responded by singling me out to say essentially that It's only a few 'bad apples' and that escalation is bad, and in fact I agree with you on that yes, escalation be a very bad idea.
My 'experieces' with CoMA are probably only negative because I look like a friggen demon to them, and I imagine being pagan doesn't help, right? I wonder how demon-like the Houston Tornado looked. It is to the point that the possibility of an encounter with CoMA plays a large part of the equation of how often I visit the colonies.

As a student of world religions I can safely say that any faith that preaches hate, commits murder and uses terror tactics in the name of their god under the guise of Christianity, is pointedly not bloody Christianity... Oh wait forgot about the rise of Christianity, the Crusades, the Burning Times, and Northern Ireland.
I'm pretty sure that most CoMA members are pretty okay as far as baselines go, just remember that they are part of an organization that is convinced that we as novas are the spawn of the devil, and therefore you will pardon me if I do not invite them over for dinner.
My point is: in my experience if they are wearing the CoMA 'uniform' as they're firing shotguns at me, I'm going to refer to them as being of CoMA, I mean to my knowledge no 'organization-wide' attempt has been made on their part to see novakind as anything other than a blasphemous abberation that needs to be exerminated, has there?

[Erin 'Stellar' Donovan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Spartan:
I turned the car desolid with me. What else would I mean?

Turned the whole car desolid?

Riiiiight.

You know, people here are pretty cool and accepting in general (from what i have seen). There really isn't a need to exaggerate. Heh.


"I caught a fish thiiiiiiiiis big!"

[Rush]

Quote:

Originally posted by Erin 'Stellar' Donovan:
Turned the whole car desolid?

Riiiiight.

You know, people here are pretty cool and accepting in general (from what i have seen). There really isn't a need to exaggerate. Heh.


"I caught a fish thiiiiiiiiis big!"

No offense lady but I ain't got nothin' to prove to you or anyone else. If you don't believe me that's your buisness but don't be callin' me a liar.