Aberrant: Children of Quantum Fire - Some Issues with Extras

[Bombshell]

Okay, there was some talk going on in Chat, and I think there are some things that need to clarified. Here goes.

1 - Extras that don't raise the level.

Some people are confused by this. Some thing you can apply a free extra when you hit Q6, for others, it seems if you raise the level of the power higher, you can apply as many extras as it takes to raise it due to a high Quantum score. There's an awful lot of extras flying around this game - I just want to make sure everyone is buying them the same way.

From what I understand, adding an extra that doesn't raise the power a level costs an amount of XP equal to buying a dot of the power at the current level (not number of dots in the power). IE, if you want to add an extra to a level one power, it costs 3 XP, for a level two power, it costs 5 XP - those are based on the standard costs. Effectively, you pay an amount of XP equal to the XP cost multiplier for the power (so 2 xp for a level one power that's 'in theme,' etc.)

When you add an extra that raises it to the next level, the cost is different. You pay the difference in the costs between the power being the old level and the new level. Thus, if it takes you 2 extras to raise a level two power to level 3, and you only have one dot in the power, it costs 3xp (for standard costs). That's only for the second extra. you still had to pay 5xp for the first one. You DON'T get two extras for the cost of raising the power to the next level.

And an issue I have, and never found an answer for. When applying total extras, do you look at the original level of a power, or the current one? I mean, if you have Q6, and you apply 2 extras to a level one power, raising it to level two, is the power considered a new level two power for the purposes of adding more extras, meaning you can add up to two more extras before raising it to level three? I'd say no, but that's just me, though Mastery sort of mucks that up some, since it always raises the level of the power.

That's the way I understand it. If you are doing it differently Krul, please clarify.

2- Mastery

I see that have made set costs for adding mastery, and that's fine (if making Mastery rather cheaply available, especially with the prevalence of RQC on everything). However, there are some other restrictions on Mastery that you have seem to have overlooked or changed. I would just like to know if it was intentional or not.

According the Player's Guide, p. 119, you have to buy Mastery 1 before Mastery 2, which you have to buy before Mastery 3, and remember, regardless of Quantum rating, each level of Mastery raises the power by one level. Thus, it seems intuitively backwards to me that level 4 and level 5 powers can only get the Mastery 2 & 3 and Mastery 3 extras, respectively.

Secondly, according to p. 119, only levels 1-3 powers can have Mastery applied. This makes a good deal of sense, since Mastery makes powers work on a national, continental, and world-wide level and level four-six powers already do that, have the ranges and areas and such built in, doubling or more the number of successes is hardly necessary. Applying Mastery to them is just plain overkill, in my estimation,

3 - The Explosive Force Extra

Dude, I know Lightspeed is a level 4 power, but don't you think the damage is a little extreme? At the very minimum (Quantum 7, Power Rating 1), the damage is 80 aggravated damage, which is also over an Explosive Area and Burning! And that's on a movement power; for the cost of an extra (which doesn't even raise the level, since you must have at least Q7), the level 4 power gets a separate Level 5 power at the same rank (Explosive Force is roughly equivalent to Q-Bolt with the Area, Aggravate, Burning, Explosive, Mastery 1, and Mastery 2 extras, and that's assuming Q8).

Sure, the inclusion of needing Momentum Transfer and the effect causing damage is neat and flavourful, sort of the equivalent of the sonic booms from Hypermovement, but keep in line with the fact the Lightspeed is a movement power, not Mega-Bolt. With the exception of Quantum Inferno, I don't think any level 4-6 power even does damage (directly). And just as an additional bonus, someone with this power can inflict damage when completely Density Decreased, when, according to the rules, they can't affect the tangible world at all.

Sure, I know this is a high powered game where rolls and such are almost not even necessary, and others have vicious powers where they say they'd only use them in the direst emergencies or situations, but still... this is a bit much.

So, here are my suggestions to bring it more in line.

1- Damage should be based of just the Power Rating - this makes it analogous to Sonic Boom from Hypermovement, the other movement power that does damage based on the number of dots you have in the power.

2- Using this extra causes you to immediately drop out of Lightspeed (since you transferred the momentum), thus costing you double QP for the power.

3- Give it either Area or Explosive, not both, even if you increase the increment on Explosive, otherwise, just one dot does aggravated damage out to a 3.2 km radius (at current damage level) - I'd suggest Explosive myself. Pretty extreme for a side effect of a movement power.

If someone really wants to be able to create a thermonuclear explosion, they should feel free to buy Q-Bolt with Aggravated, Burning, Explosive, and possibly Reflective, along with Mastery 1 and 2. This is Aberrant, where extras expand on the scope or capabilities of a power, not give it Alternate Effects (for the vast majority and the ones that do, the effects aren't this extreme or different from the main power).

This is just my two, okay, three, cents (I'm well aware I'm rather conservative when regards to rules).

[Courier]

Physics is not our friend in abby. The later part of Bomb's post reminds me of Warp's issues, i.e. Warp is not Quantum Inferno so linking the sun to the earth shouldn't be as bad as our intuition says.

RE: "Free" extras.

To the best of my knowledge (or maybe that's 'IMHO') "free" is only collectible once.

Example: Warren has Claws + 3 extras, they're all free so they don't increase the power's level. However that's his max so his next extra will increase the power's level, as will every extra after that. Claws+4 extras is a level 2 power, but he doesn't get 2 more free extras since it's not a generic level 2 but rather a level 1 with multiple extras.

RE: Mastery and Level 4 powers.

Basically the level 4 powers already have a level of mastery built into the power (that concept is a bit awkward for CTT but whatever). The thing about this level of power is you might be able to put Mastery 2 on it (which confusingly would have the same effects as Mastery 1).

Having said that... considering how confusing that would be, and considering the better alternatives, I'm good with banning that. Disease Authority with Mastery simply becomes Disease Supremacy or whatever it's called. Someone with Q8 can buy both Disease Authority + RQC and Supremacy as different powers.

[Quantum Fire]

If it's really an issue, I can knock the damage for the explosive force extra down considerably, but it seems that there is also an issue with mastery here, from the sound of it..

Honesty, no one has yet put mastery one level 4 or higher powers, in general because no one has them high enough or the XP for it, but it sounds as though folks would like me to forbid or at least severely reduce mastery on those powers...

I'm 1/2 convinced on the issue that they don't really need them, but I'd let the rest of the players chime in first.

[Bombshell]

Courier, those 'Free' extras are NOT free. You can buy them (at the cost of a dot in the power) without raising the level of the power. So, for those three extras on Claws, you should have spent another 2xp + 2xp + 2xp for each one (if they are in Theme), or 1np for two of them.

Also, technically, according to Selectively Permeability, what you designate must be a material, a specific target, not simply mass, gravity or heat.

[Adrian Moss]

Mind you, QF, a movement power does 90 Aggravated, Area Effect, Explosive damage ... at one pip. Also, it does this even when the attacker is using Density Decrease 3. I'm a little hard pressed to think of a Power that kicks out that damage for the price of one extra.

[Karren Gaunt]

Really? I'd be glad to nuke (pun intended) explosive force all together and instead put 'effects others' on it so cora could take people on afternoon jaunts to europa. that's what she'll be using it for mostly, solar tourist.

[Courier]

Courier, those 'Free' extras are NOT free....

Yeah, I know. I was using "Free" as the game term, not as a cost descriptor. For the record he paid exp for one and a nova point for the other two.

Also, technically, according to Selectively Permeability, what you designate must be a material, a specific target, not simply mass, gravity or heat.

A distinction without much practical effect. The center of the sun is made up of matter under a lot of pressure (massive understatement) and undergoing fusion. For that matter the center of Jupiter is under enough pressure to shove through enough matter to mimic a nuke and/or poison the world.

Selective Perm was written without taking into account Warp's range. It's built to restrict access and/or move water, air, or sand around, not stellar nuclear material or poisonous gas under Jupiter level pressures.

As I've said before, Warren with that power doesn't bother me, he's got enough Q to destroy the world in multiple ways, but I'd much rather have Warp hit with the nerf bat than have every Q3 Warper able to do the same thing. If I'd wanted Quantum Inferno I would have purchased Quantum Inferno, it's not supposed to be free.

[Bombshell]

Courier - Ah, my bad.

[z023]

See....I thought they were free...as in no xp or np needed to be spent on them. QF, I'll get my sheet worked back around to where it's legal sometime this week. I don't have the head for the numbers right now.

[Quantum Fire]

Extra's are free in a way, if you buy claws as a level 2 power.. and you have q.6 when you do it, then you can take 2 extras on it rather then 1, that is the only way you get a 'free' extra.. but actually, your still paying for it there.

[Wyrd]

I made the same mistake with my first high quantum character, thinking that the extras were free that is, but have been playing it in IE(which is the only place I have that as of yet) as quantum 6 means for a level one power that adding one extra costs one dot, adding a second extra raises it to level two(at the regular price for raising the level), then you can get one more extra for the price of one level 2 dot, then raise the level of the power with the next dot, etc.

Then again, we are playing really loose with the rules in IE because we are more interested in cinematic flair. I am strongly in favor of QF being able to just deny any power he thinks is getting ridiculous, like trying to layer 12 extras on claws, or Wrath of Mod a player who is abusing his/her place in the game to make it less fun for the other players. This story seems very much to be focused on the actual story, which is the main reason I wanted to join it with the character I did despite being ridiculously weaker than all of the other characters. Not only is my character pre-apotheosis, Ichigo is still young enough to have the max 3 dot cap on all powers and mega attributes, but I think she can contribute to the story a unique perspective and help add to what the rest of you have been creating.

[z023]

Okay, it was easier than I thought to fix. Hopefully the sheet is totally kosher now, as I'm sick of dealing with dots and NP's.

On the note of character sheets, I noticed on Alex's sheet that she has Node 10....is this Node 5 with the N-Stage levels maxed out? I thought N-Stage only went up to 4? I'm not trying to get Max in trouble or anything, I'm just curious about the background and wanting to make sure I understand it myself, as I'll be taking Sakura's node up the N-Stages with each time her Q rating goes up.

[Courier]

As I've said before, Warren with that power doesn't bother me, he's got enough Q to destroy the world in multiple ways, but I'd much rather have Warp hit with the nerf bat than have every Q3 Warper able to do the same thing. If I'd wanted Quantum Inferno I would have purchased Quantum Inferno, it's not supposed to be free.

...I said this without thinking it through. My books aren't here, does *every* Q2 nova with flight also have access to LightSpeed with a powermax?

Courier - Ah, my bad.

Not your fault. We've got the word "Free" being used to describe multiple situations. Free enhancements, free extras.

[Quantum Fire]

With regards to Alexandra's node.. it's actually 10th Instar.. meaning it's completely maxed, as high as possible.. technically that's Node 5 & N-Stage node 4.. but Node 10 works for that too.

[z023]

QF - Then can N-Stage's be bought like regular backgrounds during character creation? In the book, you have to pay an entire NP for N-Stage 1, 2 for N-Stage 2, 3 for 3 and 4 for 4 (or the xp cost listed in the book, which I think is 3, 6, 9 & 12). That's a lot different than being able to spend 2 NP and have Node 10 that acts exactly like the N-Stages. I ask mostly because if you're going to allow Node 10 as an equivalent, then I'll just move my background point spent on N-Stage 1 over to being the last five dots of the Node background. I took out the other N-Stages I had bought for her to move points around when correcting the Extras misunderstanding. I'd also ask if others that have bought N-Stages, especially at character creation with NP's, could make the switch and reallocate any recovered NP. I know The Morrigan at least has N-Stage 1 on her sheet.

The rules for the N-Stages are in The New Flesh, pg. 242 (thanks Asa!).

[Quantum Fire]

Alexandra paid the full price for Node at that level, 10 Nova points.... actually, it was part of her apotheosis, I assigned it to her based on the nature of her apotheosis, as I assigned things to others when they achieved apotheosis... I think you misunderstood me, it's the way it's recorded, not 10 points of background.. it's actually the much more.

[z023]

Oki doki. Thanks for the clarification!

[Quantum Fire]

Some thoughts about object of desire, and sex object also, as well as a few other aberrations focused this way.

In order to make it more playable, I am thinking that constant exposure slowly allows it to die down to a more controllable level, something in the back of the mind, rather then a constant full strength effect.