Aberrant RPG - Intracacies of Level 6 Powers

[Dr. Arcturus]

Level 6 powers leave a lot up in the air. A few points I have found a bit confusing:

Plank Scaling: The APG says that, within a Scale " complete indeterminacy reigns". What does this mean? Does something have to have at least a slim chance of being possible? The book goes on to say that if the Scaler is inside of the sphere of influence his own will reigns supreme.So, in essesense, the Scaler, while in the Scale, has functional access to any power, at any level, can create anything, DO ANYTHING, and twist reality to whatever thought he may have??!!

Creation Ex Nihilo: This power is relatively straight forward except for one thing. The APG says that the power can actually increase the "complexity" of sentient targets. What does this entail for a human, or worse, a nova?

Universe Creation: Again, very straight forward. This one is a problem Ive actually run into. Assume the Creator ( pun intended ) has the maximum dice pool possible for this power: a ludicrous pool of 20. (10 dots in M-Intelligence and 10 dots in Universe Creation). The APG says 10 success will make a universe that is everything the Creator wanted, consciously and subconsciously. During one Insane Hypothetical Game (my weekly Twink Game), the Creator scored all 20 possible success. Experienced RPG'ers, I emplore you, what should I do with that?!

Big issues. Any advice would be appreciated.

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Quantum Promise ]

[N News Service]

If you are actually using level 6 powers on a regular basis you really don't need a rulebook anymore.

If you are at level 6 you are a god. 10 successes creates a universe in your ideal image? Well, then twenty does the same thing, you get an entire reality based on your specifications. You have someone with MegaInt 10? It's pretty doubtfull then that the character might make a bonehead goof like forget to define how gravity works in this particular realm.

The game wasn't designed to cover the power levels you are working at, it really wasn't. These powers were created as kind of a "and this is what is possible, if you, the ST should decide to take a game this far." So it is going to remain fairly vague. You're the ST, you're working on a game with a powerlevel no one here very likely has ever run, you're gonna have to work this kind of stuff out on your own. Hey, being a pioneer can be tough, but you get bragging rights.

[Dr. Arcturus]

I undertand all of that, Im just looking for suggestions.

Would any of the storytellers that see this post put any kind of limitations on Planck Scaling? If so, what?

How would the storytellers that read this increase the " complexity" of a human or a Nova( or a Psiad, for that matter).

I actually came up with a solution to my question about UNiverse Creation. In the EXTREMELY UNLIKELY event that a character should score the IDEAL SUCCESS of 25, a couple of things happen:

No Universe is created at this time. Instead, this God of a character actually pierces the veil of infinity and finds that He/She is the Creator of the Universe all others are based on.

The characters popularity, influence,resources allies and backing become infinite at this point, and He/She ascends to whatever realm He/She dwells in. If a character actually has the POTENTIAL for the optimum success,He/She is much more than even your Godlike Novas, and is now an "Island Unot Himself".

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: Quantum Promise ]

[Hugin]

Me, I wouldn't put any limitations on Planck scaling. But I see Planck scaling as the ultimate reality editor, something that would likely never even be considered in any game that I run. You are using it on a regular basis, so I guess you would have to put limitations on it. But you know what? Maybe you don't. You are playing at powerlevel that I honestly consider laughable (don't get offended, this is simply my opinion, it is not sacred in any way shape or form). You obviously prefer things on the extreme wavelength, so while limitations seem natural to me, they are probably not so reasonable to you.

How about this, throw out any concept successes or dice rolling at this point. You are playing deities here, really play them. Someone whips out Planck Scaling and it becomes a contest of imaginations, you versus the player. You being the ST are the final arbiter, but that's how it goes. If the player comes up with something that impresses you, it works, if not, you come up with a reason that it doesn't. Same with Universe creation and Creation Ex Nihlio. What's a more complex human? Make your player come up with an example, if it leaves you unimpressed, it's a fail. If you openly yawn in his face, it's a botch. I guess you should look at Toon for inspiration. Screw technical rules, you are boogieing at a level they didn't imagine, go with what feels right. If your players bitch and moan say 'fine, you're character is dead. Make a new one, this time using the rules and 30 nova points.' If they wanna dance with gods they gotta be willing to give and take, just like you.

[Wizard]

Q.P., you are trying to ascertain how deep the depths of infinity really are. Of what value is becoming the creator of all that is based on a die roll? That's just another way of saying, "Okay, it's your turn to be the ST." Aside from being an act of intellectual self-gratification what is the point of it?

You are developing the guidelines for a PC to become God yet you have difficulties with Plank Scaling. Why? That's just being God on smaller scale.

Have you stopped to consider that universe creation is really just cross-time travel with a better salary? The only real difference is that theoretically there are no surprises waiting in store when you use UC instead of CTT. What's the point of that?

Some people might be able to be live enternally with lesser beings worshipping them but how is that functionally different than being a couch potato staring into a television?

[Dr. Arcturus]

There is meathod to my maddness

As those of you posting here probably know, I really only play with huge stakes. My players actually got bored playing characters based on Justice Legion A, so I stepped it up a notch. I tend to feed munchkins when I can, because I like to reek havoc and property damage

The campaign I have set up has my players take on characters that are actually competitors for the title of GOD. Thats right, GOD is not the creator of the universe in this game, its a title that mortals of extreme power compete for. Each character has high levels of each level 6 power, with the exception of Universe Creation. Only "GOD" gets that, and when "He" does, its at whatever level he rolls with 16 d10. The characters also recieve mastery 3 on all of their level 6 powers and even their Mega-Attributes. But massive power doesnt win you the title. No. You have to garner the worship of more of the universe than any of the other characters. Now, the methods my players have used range from out-and-out domination to galactic seduction. It gets intense. The game allows the players a huge hand in directing the goings-on. You might find it suprising, but not once have any of the characters come to blows with another character( miraculous, considering the high levels of Q Inferno+ Master3 each character has).

[Wizard]

The question is; where do you go from there? At the level of power your player's transact at, what is there to look forward to except 'beating' the other players by achieving the established win condition.

Do you remember the sim game Populous? A really cool game, it took you to the ultimate in a god perspective game by literally making you a deity attempting to gain supremacy for your worshippers and therefore yourself. Check it out sometime.

If you do check it out, there are passcodes to allow you access to all levels of 'miracles' without even the need to power them 'miracles' by mana, an energy gained from prosperous worshippers. The funny thing is once you use the codes it stops being fun. Sure, for a while it's entertaining to rain down fire on the worshipers of your rival deity, and destroy their cities with volcano after volcano until their lands are utterly devastated. But that loses it's appeal after a while.

Your players got bored with being gods and so now that they are (almost) supreme entities and they're entertained? For how long? This just doesn't sound like a long term game to me.

Anyway, the answer to your question to disallow any power that encroaches on the realm of 'god'. Therefore no Plank Scaling, Universe Creation or Cross-Time travel. Watering them down seems pretty pointless considering the level of power you're transacting at. Best of luck.

[Jager]

How about this: Your charater has a rank 6 power. A problem arises.

(ST)"Okay, this situation happens. You respond and it is taken care of."

(Player)"What did I do? What was the problem? How many dice do I roll?"

(ST)"It doesn't really matter. If the situation didn't turn out okay, you could go back and alter the outcome until it satisfied you."

(P)"Uh...okay."

(ST)"Well, this happens a few hundred thousand more times. You eventually become bored and decide to just sit back and watch the goings-on of all the little people. Isn't Mal funny, sitting back and believing that he is the one evolving humanity. Oh, look! There goes Pax, losing his temper again...and again...and again."

Read some Amber by Zelazny for a feel of what creation becomes. If you don't like it, you just move on. You want to experience WWIII? Go ahead and destroy the place your staying at. You will find another home soon enough. Reality doesn't really matter. No one really exists, save in your own imagination. The only ones of importance are the others like yourself, who warp and control reality. The rest are just Shadows of Amber.

Now that I brought it up, wouldn't that make for an interesting high-powered game? Finding and then controlling the immutable center of all reality, just like in the books.

Thoughts, anyone?

[bobmaster SQUARED]

universe creation, planck scaling, and creation ex nihilo.

If it were possible I would drool online. The mechanics of these powers are like before suggested uneccessary. Once this level of power has been reached there is no practical limitation to what a character can do but since it seem that it is my job to put things in laymans term I'm going to take a stab at it.

Planck scaling- This power theorizes that there is a point at which the rational laws of the universe break down. A point past which matter can no longer be subdivided. Lacking any real clue what what the practical result of forcing reality into unreality would be the design team at white-wolf decided that in this realm the abstract would reign. So what does all this mean. Thought become reality, your whims and dreams come to life. (A side note for GMs, watch the movie forbidden plant for fun ideas about the possible implications of this). See in aberrant thought is not considered to be just electrical impulses in the brain but some sort of extra coporeal process. These extra realitiy thoughts of yours make an imprint on the now mutable reality created by planck scaling. In short you live in a bubble of god. Since you are the creator of the bubble your will is supreme and uncontestable ...you...can...do..any..thing.

Creation Ex Nihilo- like god... This is the most abuseable power of the already bent lv 6 powers. THis is because it deals in the realm of reality not fantasy like Plack scaling which is potentially more powerfull. In short it gives the abvility to create large quantities of any element or molecular structure or combination there of. So you could create a star a planet a nebula but not life or a gun. Think lotsa power no finesse. But then again somthing can be said for raw power. Imagine what would happen to a planet if it was encased by a cloud of pure flourine. Hehe toothpaste from hell.

[ 01-24-2002: Message edited by: bobmaster SQUARED ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

"Supreme and uncontestable". I like the sound of that

I rather liked the idea of setting up a game wherby players strive for control. Im thinking of making a PBEM or some such formatted game. A game of GODLY( not Godlike) proportions. I understand not many of you are actually accustomed to playing games at this level. Any takers?

[Wizard]

Uh... actually, I've been there and done that. It's lost the thrill. That's why I concentrate on roleplaying rather than mechanics or power fantasy.

Thank you for the offer though.

[Wizard]

Oh my.

What an obvious solution in retrospect. Bobmaster Squared may I present Quantum Promise. QP, this is BM2. He's you with more experience and a fondness for mathematics.

Twink happily fellas.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Finally, the master reveals himself

Seriously, glad to finally here from you BM2. By all means, feel free to email me if you should feel like getting into a realilly spink west. My smelled fall da vords kike tis neemuz Time nin a spank snail van Nye span moo manyping!!

[ 01-26-2002: Message edited by: Quantum Promise ]

[bobmaster SQUARED]

This is rather disorieting, for the first time one path has become two.

Have I just been complemented or have I just been introduced to "the master"

Well since I don't care to wait for a respose I will give responses of my own for two scenarios,

BM2 is the master- Credit where credit is due, now pay up. Your balance is pretty far in the red.

BM2 is not the master- I hope your head is visited by a thousand birds of paradise with salomonella. And work on both your sentance structure and clarity.

[ 01-28-2002: Message edited by: bobmaster SQUARED ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

Cash or check? My credit is lousy, so let's not go there....

[bobmaster SQUARED]

Universe Creation-

-Law of reality are mutable

-size scope or system mutable

-who is god? mutable

-Who lives there. mutable

What mutates. successes

[Dr. Arcturus]

So, how is this Universe anything different from a gigantic Plank Scale for the Creator?

[Hugin]

Universal Creation *creates* something that was not there before. Something from nothing. The creator, and nothing that already existed is affected.

Planck Scaling changes that which already is. The editor now has the ability to alter himself and other items or persons that were already in existence.

Two faces of god.

[Dr. Arcturus]

I understand that, but is this new universe LIKE a Plank Scale for the creator?

[Hugin]

In some ways, yes.

The creator controls physical laws, appearence, contents and nature of the new place. His imagination reigns supreme.

However, he cannot change himself, period.

I would argue that if he scores enough successes that he could tailor the new universe so well so that while in the new universe he seems to be changed. Say the creator never bothered to develop MegaStrength, but he roles a billion and a half successes while creating his universe. So, one of the physical laws in the universe is that matter reacts to the creator as if he had five dots of megastrength. Same deal with any other power you think of. The universe, being his creation is preprogramed to react specific ways to his presence and wishes.

But, two points I would also argue. The Universe Creation, once done is done. The universe is set and unchangable by the creator through use of that particular power once the universe has been created. So, no changing your mind after the fact. Also, those extra 'powers' you got while in the universe, aren't really yours. They are simply the universe reacting to you in the proscribed manner. You come back and you are back to the normal, ordinary Q10 Twinkstrosity that you were before.

[Dr. Arcturus]

A billion and a half success?!

Now, you all know what a "Twinktrosity" I am, but why so many?

As I recall from the APG, if the Creator rolls 10 success, he gets EVERYTHING he wanted in a Universe, whether he wanted it consciously or unconsiously. Could it then be argued that the Creator, in any situation, finds that things work in whatever way is most beneficial to Him, unless a past occurence renders this new occurence a paradox?

[Hugin]

QP, I was joking man. 10 or more successes and you get whatever your sacred, sleazy heart desires.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Joking? I....uh....

OH!. Heheheheh, a JOKE. I get jokes ....

[Dr. Arcturus]

I realise I'm probably the last person who should be talking about rules, but I found some great rules governing the attainment of High Quantum levels and Mastery at http://www.aeonsociety.com.

You guys should check it out.

[ 02-04-2002: Message edited by: Quantum Promise ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

Good gravy.

Does it say anything in the APG about how much the actual creator of a Plank Scale can change HIMSELF inside of it? I know other people inside of a Scale get 2 NP'S per success on the Plank Scale roll to change themselves, but it we have already established inside of that scale, creator is SUPREME and IMMUTABLE.

Im asking because one of my bastard, twinkier than me players is using PLank Scaling to justify giving himself 600 dots of every power and Mega-Attribute there is. These powers include Universe Creation, Creation Ex Nihilo, Quantum Inferno, Plank Scaling, and somethng he calls "Yes, I can".

Thoughts people?

[Hugin]

Good God, why are you even asking us?

I don't have the book handy but I would rule that the person activating Planck Scaling can only get the same benefits that others within the bubble could.

Reasoning?

If the will of the creator was totally without limit then he or she would be able to give *anyone* 600 points of any such power. But they can't, therefore there are limitations. Hence there are limitations to their own manipulations.

Also, You cannot have more dots in a power than you can have dots in Quantum. So, you cannot have 600 dots of any power, for any reason. Remember, reality reasserts itself to a great degree after the bubble goes away. If you completely shatter the laws of reality within the bubble some serious shit is going to go down once the bubble bursts.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Ok, good call my friend, with some reservations:

1). The player has taken significant weakness on the power, such that the power is now a level 5 ability.

2). He has taken Mastery 1 for Plank Scaling, but has forgone the scope increases for range and potency. His Plank Scale affects everything around him for 15 km.

3). Taint ridden God he is, he has taken the aberration Permanent Power. Everything around for 15 km is subject to his hellent will forevermore. Other Aberrations he suffers from include Megalomania (Im not entirely sure that's unwarranted anymore...) and Schizophrenia. Ive decided to have him make a willpower role every scene to maintain the composure of reality, otherwise time and space and every facet of reality goes apeshit within his range, causing horrible damage,death, and psychological scarring to all around him. Im just going to have Mal toast this pissant Taint monkey....

[Kirby1024]

Frankly, I don't care how many weaknesses you put on that power, Planck Scaling is not going to be weak enough to consider it a L5 power. At any rate, the Quantum Minimum would still apply, it's still 10 whether it's a L5 or L6 power.

Quibbling over 3 experience points is really just splitting hairs here. Especially at the level you're playing at.

[Hugin]

Ok, we have a problem. You cannot come to us with a MegaTwink problem and ask for a nontwink solution, then, when it is given to you reveal that even more, hidden twinkiness remains in the shadows. Even with me turning my brain inside out trying to come up with a way for you to whip those twink infidels back into line with a stack of rulebooks I canna help if you keep secrets.

Fine, a couple more points then.

The Strengths/Weaknesses section of the APG strictly states that the ST should never allow any combination of weaknesses and/or strengths that is ridiculous and/or gamebreaking bullshit. Something that Good MasterBob has edited from his own personal reality. This being the case I would have to agree with Goodman Kirby and wholeheartedly support that a LEVEL 10 GODDAMN POWER CANNOT BE REDUCED, regardless of the number of weaknesses taken.

But hey, you've already let that one out the window.

Also, I don't believe anywhere that it states that you can pick and choose the increases you get from Mastery 1, it's a package deal. Weaknesses you are supposed to get at the time of purchasing the power, I do not believe you can purchase more at a later time, such as when you are purchasing extras. So, when Mastery is purchased he gets the kit and kaboodle and no more customization.

But hey, that one got by you too.

The Aberration, Permenent Power is exactly that, an Aberration. It does not have to be a solely horrid experience, but at the same time it should not be blowjobs and candy bars either. For one thing, an ST should not be allowing players to choose their own Aberrations, just in case that is how Twinkasauras Rex got his permenent power. If not, *SMACK*!!! YOU ASKED FOR THIS!!!! Also, Aberrations, as I said before should never be solely positive experiences. So, his power is permenent? That suggests a lack of control to me, maybe it is not as malleable as he hoped. How about a Willpower check whenever he wants to change anything, with increasing levels of difficulty if he is changing things too much? I mean, he is GOD right? His power (through his taint wracked subconscious) has decided that reality should be *this*. It doesn't like that he keeps trying to change it.

But, that one's out the window too isn't it.

Oh well.

You're screwed.

Sorry

[Dr. Arcturus]

Ok, given the circumstances, this is really great advice. Yeah yeah, Im in it up to my eyebrows. He already blew up the whole @#$%ing world, so its really a moot point anymore

IN whatever meager defence I have anymore (none), in the APG, where it lists the properties of the various levels of Mastery, it clearly states that buying a level of Mastery and specifying certain scopes not to be increased counts as 1 weakness point per increase forgone.

[bobmaster SQUARED]

I am not going to even begin to debate this shit. Al level ten power is not a power its a plot device. Why are you even debating how many weaknesses can be slapped on. It requires Q10 that should be enough but instead you debate. Heres some food for thought. If anything goes in a planck sphere then why soesn't a nova create a pill that increases the level of his power, or maybe even give him quantum.

The idea of a lv 6 power is that it is totally insane. If a munchkin somehow drags himself to this level A. the GM deserves whatevers coming and B. whats the point, the game doesn't support game play at that level. Though the idea of sitting there entertaining yourself by sheer force f will seems pretty fun its not.

Quantum promise: grow a brain stem and connect that well tuned munchkin machine to reality. Once you reach Q10 you've WON.

Meehan:Show that you have a right to all modes of expression and stop flaying a dead horse.

To all: Do something for me and stop indulging Quantum Promise, oooh and aah or hiss and boo, but do it when something is worthy of mention.

================================================================

Slogans that deserve death by torture

-A man of genius has a right to any mode of expression.

-Life's a bitch, then you die. Then they throw dirt in your face. Then worms and other wrigglies thing eat you. Be glad it happens in that order.

-Magic is change

change is quantum

you do the math

-"And Now, Maximal, You shall BUUUUUUURN...." ---Inferno, of the Predacons

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: bobmaster SQUARED ]

[ 02-12-2002: Message edited by: bobmaster SQUARED ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

Heh. Ok, Ill stop screwing around

[Asche]

No please don't stop "screwing" around Quantum. You are my hero. I love to hear all the twinkieness...Please..I need the divine mana you have been providing me.

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Asche Lonn ]

[ 02-13-2002: Message edited by: Asche Lonn ]

[Dr. Arcturus]

Buddy, you give me strength to fight

I dont get how you people can actually support the statements your making about the ability of this game to support my level of game play. IT'S A STORYTELLER SYSTEM!!

It can support anything the storyteller can concieve of. I have been happily and functionally playing a Q10 game for the past month. Sometimes it gets a little insane. I almost always see this as humorous, as opposed to a major kink in the game. I dont see anything that happens as unbalancing, but I do enjoy hearing how you guys would handle the type of situations I deal with weekly. Im really not insane. This game is madness, but I do run a "rational" game as well. I know the value of roleplaying. I also know the value of giving my players a creative power vent. They can screw off ass much as the please in my "Twink" campaign. It actually reduces such behavior in my "canon" campaign (in as much as any campaign actually stays canon...). I dont feel like Im actually wasting anyone's time here, Im just having fun. If you guys do think Im wasting your time though, Ill stop asking your opinions

[Hugin]

QP, you're not wasting anyone's time over here. Yes, if you pull this twink crap into the InCharacter Forum it can be a little disrupting, but in the OOC Forum it is just fine.

Ignore BobMistress, most of us have learned to do that.

Continue to post to your hearts content. I do have to admit however at appreciating the irony of your complaining about a player acting Twinkish in your twinkfest of a game. Something crossed my mind about just desserts.

[Dr. Arcturus]

I wasnt complaining, Kimo Sabe. As I said, I was just posing to you an interesting situation occurence that happened in my Twinkfest game that made me wonder how others would react.

P.S. Leave Bobmaster alone.

[Wizard]

Why Bob, you found my old signature to be worthy of death by torture? That's so sweet of you!

Thank you!

[Dr. Arcturus]

Uh yeah, speaking of names.....didn't you used to be Wizard?

[Wizard]

Read the interview with Elizabeth done by the N News Service poster. All the answers to your questions are there. I think they are planning to put the final section of the interview up today or tomorrow. Hope you enjoy it.

[bobmaster SQUARED]

I guess I'm getting stodgy in my old age, apologies to QP for getting up in arms. Its the whole stab the competition in the back instinct taking over.

By the way Elizabeth your new slogan deserves death by s...l...o...w torture. No offense but seeing it right there caused a muscular wave of revultion that coalesced into typing.