ezekiel Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Hey everyone,I'm a huge advocate of the "copyleft" philosophy meaning that I think current use of copyright laws stems creativity and goes against the very basis for copyright law. Anyway, here's a real nifty site (and sight, check out the visual exhibition)http://www.illegal-art.org/The last commentary in the audio section is also a bit of a shocker: Happy Birthday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sprocket Posted February 18, 2004 Share Posted February 18, 2004 This looks interesting... ::devilangel Thanks for bringing this to our attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 Wow, slow day today...oh well, to fuel the fire:http://news.com.com/2100-1027_3-5161209.htmlhttp://www.slumdance.com/blogs/brian_flemm...00610.html#moreIn the US there's the EFF that supports people against Big Corporate in techlaw disputes but really, short of revolutionary changes in copyright law there's only so much that can be done. Problem is the RIAA and US law have long arms (as shown by the Anton Pillar order given to the music industry to investigate Kazaa's Sharman headquarters in Australia) An EFF equivalent has yet to arise in Canada though our problems are somewhat lessened for various reasons...So here's a question...do you think Big Corporate should have the same rights as individuals? In this case, the right to sue. In effect what's happening is that the RIAA sends threatening letters which adlibs to:"You have downloaded and made available to the public copyright © protected songs! You are liable for 200 000US$ in damages per song. You can defend yourself in court, costing you thousands of dollars for something which in any case you'll lose (this is very debateable) or, since we're nice guys really, we can settle this out of court for, oh, 5000-10000US$. We wouldn't want to bankrupt you after all..."In these circumstances where the RIAA is a multi-billion dollar industry, how can they lose? If the people crap their pants and pay up, they win. If they actually plan to defend themselves, they can more than afford to pay for legal counsel and will probably draw out the process to increase their chances of settling out of court. Win again...I'm not sure suing them for racketeering can work, dunno what US law stipulates on racketeering exactly, but I'll be curious to see the results of this...anyway, food for thought. If one of you ever goes into politics or becomes immensely rich I hope you'll join the fight.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted February 19, 2004 Share Posted February 19, 2004 A good place to track this sort of thing is at slashdot.org - us techie geeks tend to be fairly anti-establishment and also tend to keep an eye out for this sort of thing.Take a look at this thread for ex.http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/02/19/0124218.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 19, 2004 Author Share Posted February 19, 2004 ::smile I'm actually subscribed to gigalaw's newsletter: www.gigalaw.com5 or 6 tech law related stories every business day. (its free by the way).The problem is that most techie geeks complain and don't do much about it. RIAA and its equivalents all have large political lobbies but there aren't that many "Free Creativity, GNU - GPL yay!" lobbyists. I attended a technology venture capitalist convention (I tapped on the right shoulders to get in) where I was lucky enough to hear Lessig speak. He basically pleaded them to fight the RIAA et al. since they have the money and they're the ones investing in creativity which the RIAA is crushing. No VC is willing to invest in counter establishment ideas anymore since Big Corporate crushes them and buys them as was shown with www.mymp3.com (bought by a record company after they bankrupted them in court) and Napster (ditto, by BMG) leaving a huge hole in the forward thinking VCs pocket. I talked to a VC after the meeting and the reaction was Lessig's right of course, but none of us will do that since we don't see the returns in it (not on the short term anyway).If I had an easy solution I'd give it and be praised for it but I'm not sure there is one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 The problem techies have in fighting is that they are always amazed at how stupid people are. Today I heard this American guy talking to one of our sales reps in the lobby. The conversation goes something like this:American guy (AG): I'm amazed at how things here are so expensive. Everything here costs the same as in the States, but in pounds instead of dollars. I'm definitely not going to buy any CDs here.UK Guy (UG): Yeah, I get all my DVDs from Play(.com) from Canada.(AG): Really? And they have the right region encoding?(UG): It doesn't matter, I've got a multi-region player.(AG): Oh? Well, I hope I won't have to visit you in prison cause of all these movies you're downloading.And, as I passed them, I reached into my coat pocket for the bundle of "I'm a fricking idiot" badges, only to realise I'd given them all to (l)users the day before.You can't trust people to do the clever thing or even the informed thing. Tech groups have proved that they can move fast to block legislation that affects them, but in the general case there isn't much they can do when your average joe keeps blowing the feet off the informed option. Take this latest woman countersuing the RIAA thing for example. If people had kept doing this from the beginning then the RIAA would have been shown to be a toothless organisation and the record industry would have been forced to move on to a more reasonable way of dealing with licensing issues. As it is, they were encouraged the ease at which they could sue 12 year old girls from less well-off families and OAPs.People need to know the law and need to stay informed of this sort of thing. Copyright Infringement is not theft, if it was the police would be raiding, not the RIAA. The only way to stop these bastards is by going for the wallet. Excercise the force of public opinion. Let people know. Make a noise. Most people vote for the underdog if they think there is SOME CHANCE that s/he might win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 American guy (AG): I'm amazed at how things here are so expensive. Everything here costs the same as in the States, but in pounds instead of dollars. I'm definitely not going to buy any CDs here.UK Guy (UG): Yeah, I get all my DVDs from Play(.com) from Canada.(AG): Really? And they have the right region encoding?(UG): It doesn't matter, I've got a multi-region player.(AG): Oh? Well, I hope I won't have to visit you in prison cause of all these movies you're downloading.::biggrin People need to know the law and need to stay informed of this sort of thing. Copyright Infringement is not theft, if it was the police would be raiding, not the RIAA. The problem is that even if it isn't theft it's still a statutory infringement. Even though you won't do jail time the RIAA can still make you cough up money.The only way to stop these bastards is by going for the wallet. Excercise the force of public opinion. Let people know. Make a noise. Most people vote for the underdog if they think there is SOME CHANCE that s/he might win. Yup, but Big Corporate has more mediatic sway as shown in the previous link I posted: http://www.slumdance.com/blogs/brian_flemm...00610.html#moreTo make noise you need money to be heard. (sad but true) Right now only geeks really know what's going on. The majority of people only know what TV tells them...like the pepsi commercial. You can be prosecuted fear US of the ©.Btw, if this interests you Knave (and other brits) Fred Von Leuhmann and others will be speaking in London on March 3rd:http://www.ftconferences.com/mini_site/new...2002/ft_nmedia/Fred Von Leuhman is one of StreamCast Networks' representants (on Grokster's side, a good guy..) in MGM vs. Grokster and you can hear him speak here.If you want to skip to him he speaks 30 minutes into the hearing (the whole hearing lasts 68 minutes and is well worth a listen if you have the time...)edit: Actually, reading who the speakers will be at the Media conference in early march is really making me envious of any who get to go..The discussions are bound to be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 For the conference:2 DAY FULL CONFERENCE REGISTRATIONRegistrations will be charged at the standard booking rate of £1395/€2301.75 plus UK VAT at 17.5% (£1639.12/€2704.50)______________________________________________________________ONE DAY REGISTRATION - 'Online and Beyond' - 3 March 2004Registrations will be charged at the standard booking rate of £795/€1311.70 plus UK VAT at 17.5% (£934.12/€1541.30)See? This is why I asked for someone to get me in at the Quebec VC conference. These things are bloody expensive! If you want to try I talked to a tech lawyer who referred me to a local Information Technology Commercial interests group here, they happened to have a couple extra tickets and they gave them to me...maybe you can try the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted February 20, 2004 Share Posted February 20, 2004 The problem is that even if it isn't theft it's still a statutory infringement. Even though you won't do jail time the RIAA can still make you cough up money.What is worse, someone tresspassing on private property, or someone using the law as a weapon of terror? It can't last. Sooner or later the RIAA will realise they're trying to prosecute Prince Phillip and the Masons will get them. ::biggrin Also £1395 is quite likely more than most people under 30 make in a month in the UK. While I'm sure that Fred Von Leuhman has quite a few useful things to say, I'll be happy to read about them when they're published for free.No point in encouraging what you don't believe in and can live without. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezekiel Posted February 20, 2004 Author Share Posted February 20, 2004 What is worse, someone tresspassing on private property, or someone using the law as a weapon of terror? It can't last. Sooner or later the RIAA will realise they're trying to prosecute Prince Phillip and the Masons will get them. Trespass is criminal law though, not statutory. Its more like a speeding ticket. The problem is that you can't say "Yeah, but I was speeding because.." you have to pay for it anyway. The same is true about copyright infringement. However, the law was drafted with pirates in mind, major blackmarket distributors, not end users. The net has changed the environment for which the law was designed. One more thing, its hard to get demographics for these things, but I think the very rich, by definition, buy their movies and songs, its less of a hassle. I doubt we'll see many upper class people get served by the RIAA.Also £1395 is quite likely more than most people under 30 make in a month in the UK. While I'm sure that Fred Von Leuhman has quite a few useful things to say, I'll be happy to read about them when they're published for free.Yeah, I'd hope that's more than most people under 30 make anywhere in a month. Even though I got tickets (for free) for the Quebec VC conference I know if I'd slapped on my suit and just strolled in I wouldn't have had any problems. They don't check tickets at these places...and I got a good breakfast and lunch out of it too. ::thumbsup (though if they all have name tags provided you're screwed...time to roll manipulation. "Oh, I'm with *mumble* and left my nametag in my room. Conference is about to start!" Walk by doorman, grab drink, sit, enjoy... ::wink ) 'Course this is exactly what I study so I'm willing to ask around to get in these things... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knave Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Trespass is criminal law though, not statutory. Its more like a speeding ticket. The problem is that you can't say "Yeah, but I was speeding because.." you have to pay for it anyway. The same is true about copyright infringementOf course with speeding tickets you're not charged $120k per mile you were going over the speed limit EVEN THOUGH DOING SO IS ENDANGERING LIFE RATHER THAN THEORETICALLY MUCKING UP SOME TOFF's PROFITS Additionally it is more likely that you genuinely accidentally speed than genuinely accidently tresspass. Speeding tickets are there to condition caution rather than condition fear. The chief weapons are not speeding tickets, surprise and a fanatical devotion to the Pope, they're RIAA MPAA ARIA etc.Civil there is there to provide restitution for those who have been harmed by others. I've yet to see the recording industry prove that they've been harmed by kazaa etc. Album sales are higher than ever and surge every time any one of them drops the price a bit. Single sales are down, but then they're putting out an awful lot of sheeeeite aren't they?One more thing, its hard to get demographics for these things, but I think the very rich, by definition, buy their movies and songs, its less of a hassle. I doubt we'll see many upper class people get served by the RIAA.Well, duh. But they'd still better watch out for Prince Phillip or someone like him.He has something of a talent for getting into trouble: Duke of EdinburghYeah, I'd hope that's more than most people under 30 make anywhere in a month. Even though I got tickets (for free) for the Quebec VC conference I know if I'd slapped on my suit and just strolled in I wouldn't have had any problems. They don't check tickets at these places...and I got a good breakfast and lunch out of it too. (though if they all have name tags provided you're screwed...time to roll manipulation. "Oh, I'm with *mumble* and left my nametag in my room. Conference is about to start!" Walk by doorman, grab drink, sit, enjoy... ) 'Course this is exactly what I study so I'm willing to ask around to get in these things... lol. Employing Bavarian Illuminati principles on the GOOD GUYS! ::thumbsup nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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