Aberrant: 2011 - Homophobia

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Alptraum

I did answer your thread.

Male+Women=Natural.

Male+Male=Unnatural.

That's not an explanation, it's a restatement of your thesis. I asked you how you came to those conclusions, and all you have done is talk in circles. If there's any thought process that went into this, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise, maybe you should do the intellectually responsible thing and stop making claims you can't qualify.

[Alptraum]

Biology books? Common sense?

It is like you are asking me to explain why up is up and why down isn't. It seems so basic to me.

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Alptraum

Biology books? Common sense?

I'd like you to cite whatever biology book you're reading that indicates that heterosexualy is the only "natural" course. Especially since homosexuality exists in every mammal.

Originally Posted By: Alptraum

It is like you are asking me to explain why up is up and why down isn't. It seems so basic to me.

And forgive me, but "common" sense is infrequently common, as you must know. Please, Alptraum, indulge this poor, stupid girl. Pretend I'm five. Explain to me how you arrived at this conclusion.

[Sue 'Flow' Yin]

Biology...

There are animals who are homosexual.

Does that make it unnatural then?

[Alptraum]

Yes. I would say so. They do not pass on their genes. Anti-survival trait. Bad idea.

[Sue 'Flow' Yin]

And you spend time with friends who find the Kara video arousing.

Sick bastard.

[Alptraum]

Originally Posted By: LiberTeen

Please, Alptraum, indulge this poor, stupid girl. Pretend I'm five. Explain to me how you arrived at this conclusion.

Sarcasm doesn't come well from a woman. You don't have the strength of spirit to deliver it correctly.

It is an anti-survival trait. Animals may practice it selectively (All mammals? Cite please.) but how many practice it as an exclusive lifestyle?

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Alptraum

Yes. I would say so. They do not pass on their genes. Anti-survival trait. Bad idea.

You know what, Alptraum? I think you've convinced me. Anyone who isn't breeding should just be exterminated. I support your crusade.

Now that we've established that, I think you have a personal responsibility to pull the plank from your own eye before you seek to pluck the mote from your neighbor's. Since novas are sterile, I encourage you to exterminate yourself posthaste.

[Libertyne]

I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that. I was just making a point.

[Sue 'Flow' Yin]

Trust me, it was called for.

[Alexander Vector]

Liberteen I think i might know the answer but what do you feel should be everyone's sexuality? I am not by the way homophobic but since this is a sexuality related thread I thought I would ask you.

[Libertyne]

I don't think I'm in position to dictate anybody's sexuality, Alex. If you're not attracted to men, nobody's forcing you. My problem isn't with people who choose not to have sex with any particular sex but people who feel that one's preference is significant justification to abuse or belittle them.

Having said that, I think the world would be a lot better off if everyone at least gave bisexuality an honest try.

[White Light]

You're asking what everyones sexuality should be?

In school, I was taught that there are no absolutes. There will always be something to go against the definite and absolute.

So saying 'Everyones sexuality' is making an absolute. There is no such thing as an absolute, especially in a preference, so there is no answer.

It's a preference that everyone has a decision to make.

[Alexander Vector]

Good answers.. I think I agree. Maybe it is kinda like religion. Believe whatever you want just don't force it down someone elses throat?

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Alexander Vector

Good answers.. I think I agree. Maybe it is kinda like religion. Believe whatever you want just don't force it down someone elses throat?

Provided you're not hurting anyone else, Vector, I have no problem with people believing whatever they want. Same goes for most things.

[Tessa Barnes]

"The freedom to swing your fist ends at my nose."

Ain't sure who said that, but it's pretty darn true.

[Libertyne]

Oliver Wendel Holmes. It's an excellent quote, Tessa.

[Gabriel Stone]

Need I remind all of you that when you give into his comments in threads like these you're only showing him a great deal more attention than he deserves. And by doing so, are proving him right. It's foolish of all of you to try and reason with him.

The man is permitted to think and say whatever he wishes, regardless of how demeaning or rude those comments may be. He's not hurting anybody, least of all any of you. When he does, gripe all you please but until his fist reaches your nose, the freedom is his.

[Libertyne]

You're probably right, Gabey. I had just hoped that perhaps in getting Alptraum to expand upon his notions he might realize how very empty they are, or at least provide a salient point that could be discussed. I should have known better. But still, you do not change peoples' minds with silence and meekness.

[Tessa Barnes]

Some people ain't never gonna let go of their prejudices.

I bet in the Garden of Eden, they was discriminatin' against serpents, and that's the real reason why that snake got Eve to eat that apple.

[White Light]

Originally Posted By: Tessa Barnes

Some people ain't never gonna let go of their prejudices.

I bet in the Garden of Eden, they was discriminatin' against serpents, and that's the real reason why that snake got Eve to eat that apple.

Oh, fuck. I hate you so god damned much on every level.

[Divine]

Why is everyone so bent out of shape? I mean, common, the man can say whatever he wants. He's just trying to get a rise out of everyone. Personally, I kind of like the way he gives his opinion, without caring what others think. It's kind of sexy..in that 'bad boy' sort of way.

My opinion of fags is this: I don't care who you have sex with, or who you are attracted to. What is important is that if you spend enough time with me, I'll turn even the swishiest and most flamboyant gay man, into a sex crazed heterosexual who wants little ol' me. I promise.

As for the carpet munchers..sorry ladies but I prefer men.

[Ravenshire]

Divine, that could be considered a supreme amount of self-confidence ... or something else.

[Divine]

Raven, you are so sweet. Would you like to go dancing? I promise I won't bite.

[Ravenshire]

I try to keep around New York. We can get together next time you're in town.

[Pew Pew Pew]

Originally Posted By: Divine

Why is everyone so bent out of shape? I mean, common, the man can say whatever he wants. He's just trying to get a rise out of everyone. Personally, I kind of like the way he gives his opinion, without caring what others think. It's kind of sexy..in that 'bad boy' sort of way.

My opinion of fags is this: I don't care who you have sex with, or who you are attracted to. What is important is that if you spend enough time with me, I'll turn even the swishiest and most flamboyant gay man, into a sex crazed heterosexual who wants little ol' me. I promise.

As for the carpet munchers..sorry ladies but I prefer men.

You should move to Iowa. You sound like almost everyone here.

[Aesira]

Is this correct? Can we alter someone's sexuality through exposure to our quantum influence? Is it permanent, and is the subject even aware of what has happened to them?

[Pew Pew Pew]

Originally Posted By: Aesira

Is this correct? Can we alter someone's sexuality through exposure to our quantum influence? Is it permanent, and is the subject even aware of what has happened to them?

I'm sure they'd know the difference. Altering sexual preference and erasing someone's memory are two different things, you know.

Still, scary stuff-- changing people like that I mean.

[Aesira]

I agree - very scary stuff to be changed so fundamentally like that.

[Divine]

Originally Posted By: Pew Pew Pew

You should move to Iowa. You sound like almost everyone here.

Iowa? Sweetie, you know better than to make inferences about others ignorance or bigotry when you know nothing about them. I used the phrase to get a laugh. If you have no humor in your life, then I feel sorry for you. I mean..like..come on, laugh a little!

Maybe carpet munching hits close to home. Why else would such a minor descriptive use of language bother you.

[Pew Pew Pew]

You completely missed the point. Never mind.

[Glowstick]

I get the feeling she misses a lot of points in life Triple P.

[Ravenshire]

Yeah, but tolerance has to be learned. Why neglect someone else's education?

[Glowstick]

Each person is ultimatly responsible for themselves Mr. Ravenshire. If the girl in question chooses to live in ignorance, at least in regards to this subject, then that is her perogative.

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Divine

What is important is that if you spend enough time with me, I'll turn even the swishiest and most flamboyant gay man, into a sex crazed heterosexual who wants little ol' me. I promise.

As for the carpet munchers..sorry ladies but I prefer men.

Be careful what you say around who, Divine. You're not the only one who knows that trick, and I've got a feeling that you might benefit from a little lesson in humility...

[Divine]

No need to get hostile Liberteenie. I suppose it is to be expected, some people take things way too serious. If you could only learn to laugh a little more, you might not threaten others. Though, I suspect the hostility has a lot to do with self-respect.

Afterall, not everone brags about being an uber-slut.

[Libertyne]

I'm sorry if you didn't catch my attempt at humor, Divine, but I assure you, that was just a polite poke in your direction. I think I'd be the last person most people would think of as taking life too seriously or not laughing enough.

Behind the joke, of course, there was a little truth. You're really not the only person whose looks and charm can get people to consider things they wouldn't otherwise, and you're probably not entirely immune to that kind of influence, either. Some people may find your views insensitive and offensive, and I was just pointing out that one of them of the female persuasion might take it upon herself to teach you a lesson in perspective and manners. Just some food for thought.

Oh, and Divine, I've never termed myself a "slut" outside of sex play, and I've certainly never bragged about the people I have been intimate with. I'd defy you to name three, in fact. What I am is a mature young woman who doesn't feel the need to apologize in the slightest for who I choose to share myself with. There's nothing wrong with sex, Divine, much less between people who care about each other. The fact that you so cavalierly term me a "slut" while bragging about manipulating people without having to "put out" makes me wonder exactly what it is you're afraid of.

[Divine]

If you don't take life seriously, then why attack what Alptraum said about gays? Why take offense to anything I say? Just asking a question.

A lesson in manners? I was not aware I had committed a social faux paux. Speaking of social situations. Have you even been to a 'real' dinner engagement, where 'real' manners are necessary? A date at the local diner does'nt count.

You post live video feed of yourself performing sex acts during the GOD. You sell videos of yourself having sex with various objects. You advocate for organizations that promote promiscuous sex, raising money for their causes. Why not just get into pornography. Oh wait, they do it to make money for themselves. You have sex to make money for others.

And for you, of all people, to imply, that there is something wrong with me, for not choosing the role of sperm recepticle when a man buys me something, is like criticizing me for NOT being a whore. Wow!

The difference between me and you: is that men respect me.

[Libertyne]

Originally Posted By: Divine

If you don't take life seriously, then why attack what Alptraum said about gays? Why take offense to anything I say? Just asking a question.

That's fine. I'll do my best to answer. I think some things are work taking seriously, Divine. One of the things that I happen to take quite seriously is sexual equality and freedom, which is why Alptraum's comments are so disconcerting. If not for the fact that he was a nova, he would be one voice among many who unfortunately feel the way he does. However, by virtue of being a nova, his voice is going to automatically be lended an amount of credence and attention that makes his admittedly bold yet depressingly ill-informed comments particularly dangerous.

Originally Posted By: Divine

A lesson in manners? I was not aware I had committed a social faux paux.

Using epithets like "fag", "carpet muncher", etc. is a breach of etiquette when used without affection behind them. In much the same way that it's generally considered friendly to refer to a close friend as a "bastard" or a "bitch", those words are quite the opposite of affectionate when used by people who are not your intimates. The fact that this needs explaining is a little bewildering to me.

Originally Posted By: Divine

Speaking of social situations. Have you even been to a 'real' dinner engagement, where 'real' manners are necessary? A date at the local diner does'nt count.

Quite a few. I've attended several Planned Parenthood banquets, been a guest of American University, was a key speaker at this year's TAM conference, and have received awards from the ACLU, the Red Cross, Amnesty International, and the GSA.

Originally Posted By: Divine

You post live video feed of yourself performing sex acts during the GOD. You sell videos of yourself having sex with various objects. You advocate for organizations that promote promiscuous sex, raising money for their causes. Why not just get into pornography. Oh wait, they do it to make money for themselves. You have sex to make money for others.

On the first two counts, I'm quite guilty, but I don't particularly see anything wrong with either of those things. I guess the third thing you said would depend on how one defines "promiscuity". If you're referring to sex outside the confines of a heterosexual marriage, then yes, I suppose I do, and I don't feel bad about that at all. I no way, however, do I or the groups I represent advocate the classical interpretation of "free love", that is, having sex with anybody, for any reason. I simply think that people should be encouraged to explore and have fun with their sexuality in a safe, loving environment. What exactly is wrong with that?

Originally Posted By: Divine

And for you, of all people, to imply, that there is something wrong with me, for not choosing the role of sperm recepticle when a man buys me something, is like criticizing me for NOT being a whore. Wow!

I'm sorry, Divine, that wasn't what I meant. I was merely pointing out that I fail to see the moral superiority in charming men into lavishing me with gifts as opposed to honest, open intimacy with people I care about, no trinkets required. Also, I wonder why you're so down on sex? I can't really say, but you really seem to have some sort of antipathy directed at physical intimacy. If you'd like to talk about it sometime, I'm here for you.

Originally Posted By: Divine

The difference between me and you: is that men respect me.

Oh, no, sweetheart. You're confusing "respect" with "adoration". They two are wonderful when they go hand-in-hand, but please, don't mistake the one for the other.

[Glowstick]

Originally Posted By: Divine

The difference between me and you: is that men respect me.

This had me laughing for almost ten minutes.

Divine I don't respect you.