A Funny Thing Happened To Me...

[Singularity]

... while I was reading through my copy of the Teragen book just now: I've changed my opinion on The Night of the Long Knives (yea, I know, god forbid ). Traditionally, I've been of the school of thought that we shouldn't worry about major changes occuring in major ways mostly because what occurs between now and the start of the Aberrant War occurs over twenty five years (a number greater than some of our posters' ages) and gamers in large groups are freaking notorious for (intentionally and unintentionally) cramming that kind of change into a peroid of, oh, a week due to excitement and bandwagon mentality. And yes, I'm guilty of it too. Hence, I've always been very hesitent to support a change to the dynamic of the Aberrant world, beyond what's explicitly laid out in the released books, during my time here. That used to include The Night of the Long Knives but I'm reapproaching my personal policy towards that particular event.

Using dates, page 111 of the Teragen books says "... after a bloody internal conflict occuring somewhere between 2009 and 2040..." in regards to The Night of the Long Knives. However, that part of the book is only speaking on terms of "broad strokes." An earlier part of the book (page 97) that specifically refers to the history and arc of the Teragen states that "This 'Night of the Long Knives' will occur somewhere in the next one to five years," with the "now" in the book being the summer of 2008 (per the timeline established in the setting material [the Pantheon meeting] at the beginning of the book), placing the event somewhere between 2009 and 2013. That means our little continuity is behind the times by two years at best and seven at worst. When taking that general information and the tone set out by the book upon rereading those sections, I've come to my own conclusion that (in the context of the path laid out by the developers, the closest we can get to canon in this case) The Night of the Long Knives should be happening pretty dang soon, if not already.

On the role-playing, interactive posting, and fiction writing aspect of things, I also believe running through The Night of the Long Knives rather soon is a good idea. The Teragen book treats the scenario as something you can base an entire series around. That means we can have something subtly running in the background of the site for six months, a year, or more, adding little bits of flavor for various fictions and OpNet threads. Characters could write long term stories detailing searches for missing mentors, rousing speeches and rallies can be formed up in fictions, or tense negotiations between Terats (PCs and NPCs alike) to end at least part of the conflict. While this isn't something that will directly affect every character here (in fact it might only directly affect a very small minority of characters here), it does provide rich flavor and depth to the world in which our role-playing occurs and interacts.

However, I do see the downsides and there are a number of unanswered questions to be considered:

• There are three options available for the scenario, which will be used?
• Who decides which is to be used?
• How much say will people have?
• Could it cost the lives of Apep, Ashnod, Chaos, Lemmy, Malu, Slattern, Timeslip, and/or any unaffiliated characters?
• Will the players still retain their absolute veto in that situation? (they damn better well keep it in my rather zealous opinion)
• Who does get to participate?

I'm sure I'm missing more questions so I encourage people to speak up (not that we've had a problem with that before ). Also, it's possible the Directors are discussing this right now, but I wanted to get this out here for everyone to discuss. And finally, if anyone wants to privately talk about it with me or bitch at me about it then please PM me or you can always find me in the chat room. Who knows, I might be convinced to change my mind again.

[Jager]

Personally, I found that it is only after Utopia starts to go down and the teragen gains in popularity, does the Knight of the Long Knives happen.

Basically, they need a large enough membership combined with the lack of external pressures to make them turn on one another.

Another problem, and one of the huge problems from this board's perspective is the Biggest Question of all of the KotLK scenarios: What does Divis Mal do?

As people who have played in Aberrant, we have varying ideas of what ole Divis is about, what his reactions would be, and how far he is willing to go for "his" movement.

[Singularity]

A good question, however the book already provides us with an answer to how Divis will interact under the form of the options.

According to pages 89 and 90, Divis Mal take on the roll appropriate for whatever the Teragen. Under Option 1, "Divis Mal sits back and watches his children fight it out to decide who will make the rules in their new nova society." Under Option 2, Divis Mal is listed as a major player and will most likely be a raging god of doom when The Apostle tries (and fails) to kill Scripture and all hell breaks loose. Under Option 3, it's likely that Divis Mal would take the same stance laid out in his description from pages 89-90 and from Option 1: sit back and be the best leader/god possible for the winners.

Granted, these aren't set in stone (which is a real turn for White Wolf) but it does a decent job of giving us an idea of what the developers wanted. And sometimes we don't have to reinvent the wheel, especially if a wheel exists for each of the two possibilities (Mal is active, Mal is passive).

[Dreamer]

Well, when will it happen on the board?I have many characters that would be effected by this thing. More so than amp room.

[Edward]

I don't have a problem with NotLK happening. I don't have a problem with any of the three options. I don't have a problem with it being massively deadly.

I have a huge problem with anyone not running a Terat thinking they get a say in anything.

I've been told to shove it enough when it comes to my opinion on what other people are doing with their characters I have less than no interest in hearing someone with nothing on the line tell me what should go down with my character and thinking they have some weight with that opinion.

[Timeslip]

In an effort to hint at NotLK being not too far down the road, I've written some references in my Directions fiction.

[Singularity]

Also, I was looking at my Worldwide Phase II book recently and Heaven's End might give us a glimpse into the survivors of The Night of the Long Knives since it happens in 2015 (theoretically after the "pruning" of the Teragen tree). Geryon, Leviathan, Gauze, Blinker (I think), Orzaiz, and Turncoat all make appearances, hence it's likely they all survived.

Of course, I might be giving too much great/faith to the planning of the story to include a determination of which Terats survived the purge and went on to fight in Ibiza.

[Jager]

What happens in the NotLK influences a whole lot of novas who are not terats, as well as those who are. I do not advocate anyone at all telling any player what must happen to their character. I don't think anyone is for that, really.

I also don't think this is the sole perview of terats. We all have a stake in it.

The questions are:

What happens to the Teragen as a movement?

What happens to the various NPC?

What, if any, effect does the NotLK have on individual PC's, as decided by that individual?

[Timeslip]

Well, Timeslip has pretty much thrown in with Orzaiz and his Network lot. Her ass is now officially on the line, as the younger members of the Primacy and Harvesters might decide that the Casablancas are too impure for their tastes.

[Singularity]

Per the book, the Teragen go from a loose association that follow Mal's example to a group with a somewhat radical agenda (which, by the 2040s, slowly becomes the extremist agenda we only hear the fringe elements talk about). Mal also shifts from a "lead by example" to a more direct role. However, that role is defined by who "wins" The Night of the Long Knives. If they want a political leader, he'll be that. If they want a spiritual god, he'll be that.

As for the NPCs, that's not nearly as clear. The Apostle is essentially screwed. Even if his plan succeeds to kill Scripture he'll probably one of the few (if not the only) Terat to directly suffer Mal's wrath. That much was clear in the book. Tarik, the other snake in the brush, is not so clear. Again with the book, Tarik will either succeed in breaking away with some kind of security or he'll get ripped apart when his gambit fails. The Confederate is named on a few occasions as a casualty in the fights between the Primacy/NV and the Harvesters, which is probably a plot/literary necessity because his anti-taint/monster attitude won't work for the Aberrant War and the Trinity game. However, one of the options has Shrapnel dying and places the Confederate as the new leader of the Primacy. Also, Scripture will be attacked by The Apostle's proxies, however the vast majority of the setting information makes it seem like the attack ulitmately fails. However again, Scripture is labelled as the calming influence on Mal's temper and Jeremiah's absence could be the catalyst that drives Mal into a much more active role when The Night of the Long Knives is over (hence it could be another plot/literary necessity). Regardless, White Wolf did give us a few options. And as a veteran of The Transylvanian Chronicles I'm downright amazed by that.

As for the PCs, I will stand by what I've always said: the ultimate decision should lie with the individual players of the Teragen PCs. Those I have spoken with so far have all been considerate and thoughtful on how this event will affect their characters. I would hope this attitude would carry over into some creative work in the Fiction and OpNet sections, detailing how the event develops, affects, and changes the various PCs on this site. Some might leave the organization, other will join the new and more zealous Teragen that rises from the conflict. But I still firmly believe that is a decision left to the individual players.

[Hugin]

As far as I am concerned Night is a Terat story that effects Terats. I don't remember anything off the top of my head that would explain how it has anything to do with Elites, Utopians, Directive types or independents. This is Terats dealing with other Terats and occasionally ripping their spines out and whipping them to death with it. I don't see any reason for others to be involved.

[Xeno]

Lots of high profile corpses... their minds going to waste...

Xeno might have a stake in that, assuming that wouldn't turn him into too much of a mark for whoever's doing the killing in the first place.

[Hugin]

Kind of illustrates my point. This won't be the Amp Room. This isn't going to be one huge battle that everyone knows how to get to because of OpNet coverage. This is going to happen below the surface. Where the Terats hide. Sometimes folks will know about it, other times they won't. The battles won't last days and not everyone and his multi-eyed blob of goo is going to be able to join in.

[Y.T.]

There will however be more dead novas, more of them will be more powerful. Not many high profile people were killed.

Now let's also look at this way, not many novas who love Utopia would turn on Utopia becuas ethe amp room. After this nigh, many of the teragen and their friends will live a completly diffrent life.

There could ne a large enough factioning that there could publicly be two teragen.One may change there name. I do not know.

I do not know what of the ways we will use,and I don't know who has friends within the teragen who aren't teragen.I don't know who has enamies who are within the teregen. I do know that the tereagen aren't an island, and that ile the amp room fucked it up for novas. It did so in away that life is for the most part equally worse for all novas after it. This would misss a lot of novas and cause chaos for others.

[Vixen]

At a rough guess, one out of every three people on this board either are a Terat or know a Terat. If this thing isn't widely known to be happening on this board the moment it begins, I'll be very surprised.

[Edward]

Yes, but another way to look at this is this isn't a specific event with an obvious start and/or finish. No one is going to jump out and say "Now starts the Night of Long Knives". This is the sort of thing that will probably only be recognized as something specific in retrospect. Even Terats may be completely bewildered by what is going on, especially since I don't know if anyone is running characters that are a part of those aspects of the Teragen that could likely be the aggressors (Primacy, Cult of Mal, Harvesters).

[Singularity]

Quote:

This is the sort of thing that will probably only be recognized as something specific in retrospect. Even Terats may be completely bewildered by what is going on, especially since I don't know if anyone is running characters that are a part of those aspects of the Teragen that could likely be the aggressors (Primacy, Cult of Mal, Harvesters).

Bingo, in my opinion. This is something that will need to be handled delicately.

[Y.T.]

there are four people who have been playing a teregen for any real amount of times. Ashnod,Apep, Prodigy and me. I don't know if Apep still is here, I wish she was. But that is another topic.

So if we go with Prodigy's idea that makes the NOLK's in the hands of four people. I think Timeslip maybe added but that is still only 5 people.

So who think this is unfair and who thinks this reasonable?

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
there are four people who have been playing a teregen for any real amount of times. Ashnod,Apep, Prodigy and me. I don't know if Apep still is here, I wish she was. But that is another topic.

So if we go with Prodigy's idea that makes the NOLK's in the hands of four people. I think Timeslip maybe added but that is still only 5 people.

So who think this is unfair and who thinks this reasonable?

TERAT. TERAT. TERAT. TERAT.

Not "A Teragen."

TERAT.

I think you should be disqualified from having any say on that alone.

[Y.T.]

Ashnod it is habit from my gaming group.. But is Apep still here?

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
So who think this is unfair and who thinks this reasonable?

It's certainly reasonable. Many fictions on the board only affect a few people. Even something as dramatic as the Night of Long Knives should only affect those people it would logically affect.

Sure, other people might see odd events, but it's not necessarily certain that they'll recognise these odd events for what they really are.

[z-Sean McCline]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
So if we go with Prodigy's idea that makes the NOLK's in the hands of four people. I think Timeslip maybe added but that is still only 5 people.

Ehhhh, Y.T., Terat right here... Even Sing remembered me above; course, I think he just has a crush on me...

[Singularity]

What can I say: I just can't resist a chibi with funky eyes.

[Edward]

Dreamer was refering to a conversation we had last night in which I stated that one of the requirements should be Terats having one year's worth of activity behind them to avoid folks creating insta-Terats just to get in on the action.

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean 'Chaos' McCline:

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
So if we go with Prodigy's idea that makes the NOLK's in the hands of four people. I think Timeslip maybe added but that is still only 5 people.

Ehhhh, Y.T., Terat right here... Even Sing remembered me above; course, I think he just has a crush on me...

08-05-2005

That day really matters. You haven't been on this site long. I am vangaurd, who happens to be a teragen. Now this show you how little you have been watching the site, but that is not really a bad thing. It is just statement.

I didn't add you to that list because you haven't really been that long.

[Timeslip]

Edward, I've been here less than a year...and if you think you're going to exclude me from the NotLK storyline, you're sorely mistaken.

Y.T., I don't recall there being anything in the FAQ about people having to be members of this board until they have the Y.T. Seal of Approval before taking part in various storylines. In other words, take your "veteran vs. newbie" attitude and stick it.

PS: and if you want people to identify you with a particular character, post as that character. Not that it much matters; Chaos said exactly zilch that depended on IDing you as Vanguard.

PPS: Vanguard's Terat days seem to be at an end, by his post in the OpNet and by your own admission in chat, so perhaps you should simply back away from this as well.

[z-Sean McCline]

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward:
Dreamer was refering to a conversation we had last night in which I stated that one of the requirements should be Terats having one year's worth of activity behind them to avoid folks creating insta-Terats just to get in on the action.

Sorry, Edward - missed that post. A year seems very extreme - maybe the rule should be Terats created before the story kicks off? Or maybe before this thread kicked off? I'd be happy with that last...

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
08-05-2005

That day really matters. You haven't been on this site long. I am vangaurd, who happens to be a teragen. Now this show you how little you have been watching the site, but that is not really a bad thing. It is just statement.

I didn't add you to that list because you haven't really been that long.

Y.T., to quote TS - stuff it. Really. No, really. I'm an alt of someone who's been on this board for a while - not forever, but a while. Because people make alts, newbies aren't always newbies. And if I were a newbie, that post might make me take my toys and go play somewhere else.

I made a post in jest. At least Edward was nice when he smacked me down. (Thanks Ed! )

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
Edward, I've been here less than a year...and if you think you're going to exclude me from the NotLK storyline, you're sorely mistaken.

Sorry sweetpea, I be not just Edward, but Prodigy,Lemmy, and Slattern. I've been here as long as the wallpaper.

My basic concern is that NotLK heavily impacts Terats and not so much anyone else. I don't think that Endeavor or Totem or such should have a say in an event that is going to massively impact three of my characters and none of theirs. I just gave a year cutoff in chat (you didn't miss a post Chaos) as an example. It wasn't directed at you.

[Sandcaster]

...

[Timeslip]

That's all well and good, Prodigy, but this whole cutoff business is baloney. The "year cutoff" may not have been directed at me, but it sure as all hell would affect me if put into place. And when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, it isn't needed; I doubt in the extreme that there will be a major wave of brand-new Terats sweeping in and somehow screwing up NotLK (especially if the Plot Events thing comes on line, which will give the whole deal a smidgen of structure).

Yeah, Chaos is new to the boards; that said, he's been hinted at in Timeslip's past for a while, he's being run by someone who is one of the most responsible players I've ever know and who has run him TT for years, and even if none of the above held true he would have every bit as much right to take part in these events as would someone who had been on these boards since Nanosecond One.

The absolute last thing that this board needs is institutionalization of VSS (Veteran Superiority Syndrome).

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
Edward, I've been here less than a year...and if you think you're going to exclude me from the NotLK storyline, you're sorely mistaken.

Y.T., I don't recall there being anything in the FAQ about people having to be members of this board until they have the Y.T. Seal of Approval before taking part in various storylines. In other words, take your "veteran vs. newbie" attitude and stick it.
PS: and if you want people to identify you with a particular character, post as that character. Not that it much matters; Chaos said exactly zilch that depended on IDing you as Vanguard.
PPS: Vanguard's Terat days seem to be at an end, by his post in the OpNet and by your own admission in chat, so perhaps you should simply back away from this as well.

One this was Prodifey's idea. Two, I would most likely add you. Three, Vanguard is leaving the teragen mainly because of both the things leading up to and what happens in the NoLK's. Four, once we decided who got a voice in it,I was going to basically give mine up to someone I think is far more reasonable than me. I do this because I know that the site should be in better hands than mine.

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sean 'Chaos' McCline:

I'm an alt of someone who's been on this board for a while - not forever, but a while. Because people make alts, newbies aren't always newbies. And if I were a newbie, that post might make me take my toys and go play somewhere else.

I made a post in jest. At least Edward was nice when he smacked me down. (Thanks Ed! )

That well and good,I don't see the need to oput on a silk glove when I am going to hit them in the gut. If you have alts think that should give you a say, then by all means stand up and say them. If you wish to hide behind a newbie name you will be treated as one.

Now I am not saying you are worthless because you are a newbie but under this idea NoLKs is a major turning point in many characters, not all of them PCs. Canon power players are going to die. I don't know enough about you to know if you know what that means to some people here. I don't know you well enough to know you will not throw a fit and leave as soon someone isn't nice to you. Or when a plot line doesn't go your way.

[Timeslip]

Y.T., take care of your own fucking problems, and let others take care of their own. 'Nuff said.

[Ashnod]

I don't think Prodigy is saying he's concerned that a new "wave" of Terats will screw up the NoLK, or even that he's concerned with people participating in the story.

I think he's saying that the overall arc of it, which scenarios are going to become site canon and which get left on the cutting room floor, should be in the hands of the people who have been the Terat players here, and that it's not fair to those players who have been the Teragen presence on the forums to suddenly have the whims of those who OOCLy don't like the Teragen sweep through and make it as damaging or transformative as possible.

I don't think he's saying that people can't participate in it at all if they haven't been playing Terat characters for a while, only that the core Terat players should be given the voice to determine what's going to happen.

Correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly.

[Wakinyan]

O.K. So basically those who have the most mileage here as Terat get to choose how this goes down.

Sounds a tad elitist but gotcha.

Personally I have came to the conclusion that I don't mind which option from the book is chosen I would just like it to go roughly along with it somewhat.

[Timeslip]

Ashnod: if Chosen brings the whole Plot Events thing into being -- which it sounds like he is going to do -- worrying about who frames the Night of Long Knives is largely moot; it will be the Directors framing it.

[Jager]

Ashnod, No F***ing Way.

Prodigy, the same.

No. No. No.

If your purpose is to alienate newer posters and drive them from the board, just say it. Otherwise, I feel that everyone should have a voice in what goes on with the NotLK.

Even then, only Chosen should get to say that someone has, or has not, been a terat long enough to have a voice. For that matter, I also don't think this is something that happens in the vaccum of Teragen politics.

Orzaiz and Narcosis both use outsiders to gain favors and accomplish their goals. Other terats could also use proxies to accomplish their goals as needed.

I have long written in personal friendships between Jager, Orzaiz, and Geryon. He has hinted at a relationship with Caroline Fong and a hatred for the Apostle dating back to the start of the movement.

Neil Preston has a student-mentor relationship with SinEater and has been a nova of interest to Scripture.

Lastly, exactly what internal factions do the board's terats belong to, if any?

[Timeslip]

My personal hope -- and it's just that, a personal hope -- would be to see NV and the Casablancas win out, the Primacy and Harvesters reined in somewhat, and the Cult of Mal marginalized from the political end but still up and running for the "spiritual" mission. Better all ways around for the long-term health of the movement...and Mal and Orzaiz are bright enough to try to make sure that the movement's long-term health takes priority.

[Timeslip]

Oh, and I'll paraphrase here something that I just said in a discussion about this in chat:

Hang the developers, and hang their initial intentions for the outcome of NotLK. We're off the map here, and can take it where it will best suit N!Prime. I personally don't think that transforming the Teragen into a bunch of raving bomb-throwers will accomplish that goal.

[z-Sean McCline]

Y.T. you have a private message - I'm not going to argue on this board anymore - this isn't the time or place.

Jager - I'm a member of the Primacy, at least until I piss someone off and get kicked out.