opnet [OpNet] Is the Teragen inherently selfish?

[Tarot]

I get a chill every single time I hear you talk about the weak or the poor as if they were something you were observing. Mostly because I never met any so impoverished until I came here. Maybe you should look a little closer to home.

Uh oh. That's two completely true things in as many days.

[Jager]

You need to be careful about trading in opinion as if it were fact. Otherwise, an interesting observation.

[Walker]

I am stunned by the irony of the above post.

[Jager]

Touche.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Tarot: I get a chill every single time I hear you talk about the weak or the poor as if they were something you were observing...

With my salary and investments I can’t claim to be poor. I also can’t claim to be weak.

On the other hand I have oppressed them. Killed lots and lots of people and walked away from it. It was even legal, because there was a pseudo revolution going on and the law wasn’t enforced where I was.

Now that was an experience. A small break down in the social order in an out of the way place. A lot of the work Utopia does is to try to help places like that.

It has not been my observation (first or second hand) that break downs in social order lead to paradise. It has been my observation that break downs in social order lead very quickly to situations similar to the one I experienced.

I’m not attracted to the idea of over throwing the social order in the hope that something good will happen. I’ll take that chill running down your spine and raise you 200+ corpses, 2 of which were novas (if you count them differently).

And I’ll ask again, what do you dislike about the current social order, what do you want to replace it with, and how do you intend to minimize the blood it will take to get from one to the other?

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
With my salary and investments I can’t claim to be poor. I also can’t claim to be weak.

Impoverished.

You measure in terms of money, you have no idea what I'm talking about and even with the palette I have to choose from the color "powerful" is not in your immediate future. Props for the thumbnail theater of your biography. I always wondered why you talked like an elite.

As I'm still refining my plans for global domination you'll have to wait until my people get back to you on the new social order.

[Jager]

Please lay it out for us, Tarot.

Why impoverished?

Define for us your interpretation of what makes one weak, strong, rich, and poor.

[Tarot]

"Hey Tarot! Since I'm really bored would you lay out your values and beliefs for me? I'm not planning to do anything with it except divert myself from ennui, make cryptic comments with a historical twist, maybe (probably) getting pissy if personal things get personal or don't go the way I think they should. Still, give me the benefit of the doubt and maybe something juicy to mind fuck you with the next time I feel like it."

"Okay?"

Tempting offer.

Very kind of you.

Given that your reaction to my work for the last six months has been to parlay it into an excuse for foreplay with your sig there's no way I could doubt the sincerity involved.

[Jager]

So basically, you are going to say what you are going to say, but give none of the reasoning behind it, or provide any interpretation for those who ask. Gotchya.

I was asking for your personal interpretation of word meanings. There is no right and wrong in that, ya know. Its your interpretation.

Perhaps you could do something besides insult people, or hit on the ladies.

[Tarot]

Props to you dude. It takes a real talent. Most people can't don't have that flair for fucking up a simple idea. Try this; I'm not up for indulging Jager's allergy to boredom or satisfying his control freak desire to moderate the conversation just so he can get pissy about something he doesn't really care about. Preston, Ro', Smith or pretty much anyone else - minus the rare lunatics like the unlamented DS (death by anime is a hell of a way to go but the telltale sign of a true fanboy) - can ask and I'll most likely do my best to answer.

I don't mind hearing historical twists. I've said as much before. This isn't one of those times or subjects so get your giggles somewhere else.

[Jager]

Moving forward toward a higher level of evolution, or transcendence, or what other word you want to describe growing as a nova isn't something I get pissy about. I take it very seriously. I do not assume that I have all the angles covered, or have all the answers. I may not even be asking the right questions, but someone else might be moved to.

Thus, I ask questions because I would like to know were other people are coming from. The answers may not do me any good, but they might help another, and that's a good enough reason to ask.

Sorry, not bored and not looking to cut on you.

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
Props to you dude. It takes a real talent. Most people can't don't have that flair for fucking up a simple idea. Try this; I'm not up for indulging Jager's allergy to boredom or satisfying his control freak desire to moderate the conversation just so he can get pissy about something he doesn't really care about. Preston, Ro', Smith or pretty much anyone else - minus the rare lunatics like the unlamented DS (death by anime is a hell of a way to go but the telltale sign of a true fanboy) - can ask and I'll most likely do my best to answer.

I don't mind hearing historical twists. I've said as much before. This isn't one of those times or subjects so get your giggles somewhere else.

Thank you for including me in such august company, Tarot. I think I'm flattered.

[Tarot]

Oh this is nothing, Ro'.

Wait til you come to Ibiza and receive your official rose petal rain of welcome. Its an ancient tradition, one I thought up a few keystrokes ago, and something I think you'll like.

[Lemmy Chillmeister]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
So basically, you are going to say what you are going to say, but give none of the reasoning behind it, or provide any interpretation for those who ask. Gotchya.

Dude, hypocrite much? I mean, aint' you said in the past that you got no reason to answer questions you don't want to answer? Last time I checked you weren't Socrates and we weren't dressed in sheets on a hillside.

That being said, Tarot, just cuz the fucker you don't like is asking the question don't mean that the fuckers you only kinda treat like shit wouldn't be interested in the answer.

[Dr. Zero]

It occurs to me that personal evolution can involve heroics as much as villany... even in the eyes of the baseline population.

If the philosophy of personal evolution, guaged only by the extremes of the parameters that you have put on it yourself, is unique to each evolving Nova... couldnt it be said that a Nova can choose to become an evolutionarily advanced version of a leader, social-reformer, caregiver, healer, philanthropist or friend? Those are all concepts that are not limited to Nova and Nova interaction.

I should think that, being that the evolution is personal, that it should be perfectly acceptable to see an evolved Nova who wants to help humanity if it is their "evolved" choice.

[Jager]

But, Dr. Zero, wouldn't being kind, benevolant, and nice be all wrong?

Lemmy, thanks. Ya kinda made my point.

[Dr. Zero]

I make it a point to go do nice things for other people. Not because I feel that it is an obligation for all of Nova kind. I feel in my case that It is something I care to do and that doing so is a good use of my powers.

I also do not consider myself human and do not consider humans my equals on many (read: most) levels. That does not mean I would not be impressed by a world class performer, smile sincerely at some kids science fair project, appreciate the life experience and stories of a vetran or hear advice from a wise monk.

What it does mean is that if I decided something was right or wrong, I have the power and drive to act on it. I choose to be a nice guy, but I dont have to. Its pretty scary to most people that a Nova, a potential walking bomb, makes those decisions on a whim on their own morality, nobody elses.

The system has extreme potential for abuse but, when you are talking about cosmic forces with personalities, any system involving them does as well.

[kestrel404]

My current line of thinking suggests something very similar, Dr. Zero.

The Terats seem to be focused on the divergent aspects of their evolution. Surely community building aspects of that evolution can exist as well.

[Tarot]

Maybe the problem is which terats you're talking to, Al.

Good luck finding any trudging down the road you and Zero are talking about. After what happened to D'Aronique, they're probably a little more quiet than the other flavors . Finding them may not be as easy as logging onto an opnet site and asking questions.

[Walker]

Alchemist, ever considered that the Teragen could be an exercise in the community building aspects of that evolution, as you so nicely put it?

[kestrel404]

Tarot: I'm not convinced that the Teragen are beyond hope. But they're doing a good job of discouraging me.

Walker: Yes. The Teragen is a community. The individuals care for and about one another, to varying degrees and for varying reasons.

Tell me, what is the Teragen's common ground? What is the foundation of this community? Who is invited to participate? Who is excluded? What are its goals?

[Tarot]

[font:comic sans ms]Yeah. I don't know what the hell is wrong with these people.

Where's the public relations department to give me answers on demand or spin the world for me in easy to digest infospeak? I'm a busy man and don't have time to waste. Where's the recruiters that should be showing up at my door with the answers to all my questions encoded in easy to read colored brochures printed on high quality paper as I expect from a professional organization. Not to mention a decent opsite with some heavy multimedia content and maybe some interactive games to make it worth my time to log on. And what the fuck is up with not giving out a paycheck? How am I suppose to fund a consumer driven lifestyle while I'm waiting for enlightenment without a 6-8 figure salary bringing in the green? Obviously they have no idea what my needs are.

Unprofessional. That's what it is.

Al, if did know all the answers, all the secrets, I wouldn't even try except with the two or three people I think are pretty cool. The rest? If they're so fucking wise and wonderful they'll figure it out on their own.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
But, Dr. Zero, wouldn't being kind, benevolant, and nice be all wrong?

No.

[Jager]

Thanks for that, Ashnod.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
Maybe the problem is which terats you're talking to, Al.

Good luck finding any trudging down the road you and Zero are talking about. After what happened to D'Aronique, they're probably a little more quiet than the other flavors . Finding them may not be as easy as logging onto an opnet site and asking questions.

It's not that Difficult, Tarot. I'm here, and I'm WIDE OUT in the OPEN. I'm a goody-two-shoes I know, but I'm damn proud of it. I can't help but hold myself to a personal higher standard.

Perhaps when I erupted, my concience grew a node too?

[Tarot]

[font:comic sans ms]And I'm a Libra.

Since you're suppose to be a terat and a self proclaimed goody two shoes, why are you flapping your gums at me instead of answering Al's questions?

[Preston]

Philosophy and introspection aside, I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why any of us should tolerate anyone's gross violations of personal freedom and liberty.

Since when did becoming a nova abrogate the rights of baselines around us?

Why do I have to tolerate another novas violation of the law?

It is one thing to say we should live outside baseline laws, but quite another to say we will live around baseline society, but abuse them whenever we see fit.

If you want to live without baseline laws, live away from baselines.

[Sakurako Hino]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
[font:comic sans ms]And I'm a Libra.

Since you're suppose to be a terat and a self proclaimed goody two shoes, why are you flapping your gums at me instead of answering Al's questions?

Because I'm no Terat, although I believe in Teras. I'm not wualified enough to answer his question.

Simply put, I'm a newbie.

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:
Oh this is nothing, Ro'.

Wait til you come to Ibiza and receive your official rose petal rain of welcome. It's an ancient tradition, one I thought up a few keystrokes ago, and something I think you'll like.

Rose petals. Have you been visiting my official OpNet site and examining the section dedicated to roses? Cultivating them is a hobby of mine.

Terribly antiquated, I know. But I've been accused of that more than once.

As to the idea of Terats being nice to others, it is good to know that they have not forgotten redeeming qualities in their quest for inhumanity.

[Tarot]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge:
Rose petals.

[font:comic sans ms]Rose petals. They just seemed more appropriate.

No, I hadn't seen your site yet but I'll check it soonest. My schedule is still heaving around but I thought I'd give you a little enticement to visit. Here's Villa de Tarot and, if you're standing on something that's part of the house, odds are that you have a view of the sea that you won't believe. The place isn't really as big as it looks - only three bedrooms and I still have to get the kitchen updated from late neolithic - but its home.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako Endeavor Hino:
Because I'm no Terat...

[font:comic sans ms]Which means you're not one of the people I was talking about then.

[Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tarot:

Quote:

Originally posted by Rowena 'Synergy' Bainbridge:
Rose petals.

Rose petals.

No, I hadn't seen your site yet but I'll check it soonest. My schedule is still heaving around but I thought I'd give you a little enticement to visit. Here's Villa de Tarot and, if you're standing on something that's part of the house, you have a view of the sea.

Very lovely. I know what a busy schedule is like. I am still considering it though.

[Tarot]

[font:comic sans ms]Its home, Ro'.

If you go down to Ibiza Town or San Rafael there are some impressively tasteless palaces but I'll show you those too. Nothing is really that far away on the island. Being up in hills has a lot of advantages especially when it comes to ballooning or just getting some privacy. That I live somewhere around Punta Grossa is easy to find out but its too far away to interest the camera jocks.

[Dr. Zero]

I suppose that in a way I consider myself outside human laws. I do not feel the need to flaunt it and feel that my own level of personal responsibility must match. I also, however, have the power that I need not suffer fools.

Example: I have used my talents to construct a home in the mountains of Tibet. If, for example Tibet as a government began to protest about land rights to the unused space (they didnt, just for reference) I would not comply. If they approached me and informed me that they had plans for the space, I would, curteously, begin working out details with them of how we can come to a settlement. If they decided to be hostile, I would respond in kind and, most likely, cause far more damage than such a conflict would be worth.

The point? I have chosen a morality based on my beliefs. I did not let my beliefs, however, confine my morality.

This attitude, however, becomes problematic in the many cases where someone is not responsible enough to handle such personal freedom. If a Nova were to run around slaughtering baselines because he believed his Node did not make him accountable for his actions, he would find those, like me, who believe we are even more so than the average baselines objecting to his actions and even taking our own to stop him.

I do not claim to be a Terat but I do not see myself as equal with baselines. But because I see myself as superior does not mean I see them as worthless. We treat our collagues who are not as capable as us, in whatever ways we are superior, with dignity and respect, so why should we treat baselines differently?

[Sakurako Hino]

Doctor, there are things to that question that alot of Novas I feel are unwilling to answer, or feel insulted enough to call you a "Zip Sympathizer".

I think of things like this. I have Human realitives. I care about THEM enough not to make THIER world a bad place. I also feel at my level, I have, unintentionally, become a stweard of this world. It is my home, and it should be my choice if I protect the Humans on it, or not. If I respect the Humans or not.

I do care for life, Doctor Zero. I just don't have respect for those that don't or wish to steal the freedoms of others because of ignorance, greed, or a need for power.

I find such low impulses... disgusting.

[Dr. Zero]

Im pleased to see a kindred spirit, Endeavor.

As far as "Zip Sympathizer", I have nothing for such childish prattle. Clearly those who are more interested in being in the "in crowd" are quite separated from those who seek evolution and betterment for its own sake.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Alchemist:
Tell me, what is the Teragen's common ground? What is the foundation of this community? Who is invited to participate? Who is excluded? What are its goals?

1: Being a Nova.
2: Being a Nova.
3: Novas.
4: Baselines.
5: Promoting Nova rights, having a laugh, exploring personal evolution and stabbing Utopia in the fucking eye every now and again.

At least that's the way I see it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Sakurako Endeavor Hino:
I have Human realitives. I care about THEM enough not to make THEIR world a bad place. I also feel at my level, I have, unintentionally, become a steward of this world. It is my home, and it should be my choice if I protect the Humans on it, or not. If I respect the Humans or not.

Where teragen thinking breaks down IMHO is that some of those "human" relatives could be novas in a few years. I have human relatives, I have nova relatives, and blood being what it is, some of them might change from the former to the later.

[Jager]

Zero, the dark spot in your otherwise reasonable plan is them calling in another nova, or novas, to deal with the problem you represent.

Here's to hoping the PLA doesn't find your little hideaway.

Tarot, nice abode. If you like, I can put you in touch with someone who specializes in putting high-tech gadgets into a setting while keeping the ambience originally intended.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Where teragen thinking breaks down IMHO is that some of those "human" relatives could be novas in a few years. I have human relatives, I have nova relatives, and blood being what it is, some of them might change from the former to the later.

Given the current rate of related individuals erupting, parent/child not included, this seems a very unlikely possibility. While certainly not an absolute, it is, however, highly improbable.

Even parent/child eruptions seem to be rare except for those novas who frequent this site. But given the apparent inability to conceive/impregnate of the majority of the current nova population, that would explain the rarity of that situation.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod: Given the current rate of related individuals erupting, parent/child not included, this seems a very unlikely possibility. While certainly not an absolute, it is, however, highly improbable.

Without better statistics on the general population this is somewhat speculative, but...

In a way this points my point. The current rate, especially of relatives of novas, is way too low.

Best guess: It's pretty hard for novas to erupt. Most "pre-novas" never get to the next stage. The "pool" of unerupted novas is still pretty large.

We can't seperate. Most of us are still them. Our children might (mostly) grow up to be them.


(On a related note)
How many of our relatives have gotten tested? My personal observation has been that they generally don't.