Aberrant: 2011 - OpNet - 2008: Approved Systems

[Singularity]

(Transferring Dr. Troll's ideas for systems information from the poll to this thread)

Quote:

Post additions for a review, get 2 other people as well as yourself to say it's ready for prime time, stick it in a poll, then if it gets a super majority (say 2 thirds), add it to the "House Rules" thread.

You can put as much or as little as you want in your proposal, but be warned the bigger the proposal the less likely it will be to pass. For example pieces of Forceful Personalities would make good additions, but adding every single bit of it at once is probably a reach.

Suggested House Rules:

1) Puny Human is, IMHO, a good thing.

2) Ditto the App rules from A! (i.e. that you don't need a very low App to be Ugly). This would get rid of the "sometimes a zero is a 5" oddness.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Other Suggested House Rules:

3) Elemental Anima and Elemental Mastery, like most of the other suite powers, if appropriate include as part of the package the ability to detect their "element". Thus Elemental Mastery: Gold would include the ability to sense gold and determine how pure it was from a distance of Q+Dots x 20m.

See also Magnetic Manip, Molecular Manip, & Temporal Manip.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Other Suggested House Rules:

4) Any use of "Healing" or "Regeneration" automatically halts further loss of health levels due to blood loss.

5) If a nova with the power "Healing" is using that power on someone who has taken both Bashing and Lethal damage, then the Healer may choose which type of damage they wish to deal with.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

6) "Ping" damage is always Bashing (I think this is from A! as well).

[Singularity]

Alright, I'm thinking we're entering territory that had me worried in the past and it's my own doing. Some specific rule changes are definitely necessary, some are things that some people like and some don't, and others are "situation specific" or "genre specific" or the like.

Hence, here's my plan: I've been operating under a future moderator model (similar but not a precise copy) used in OpNet - 2016. Said moderation staff would have responsibilities to keep things running smoothly and one aspect of that could be the review of specific house rules or precise rulings and details and the like that are too narrow and too numerous to be placed in a single enabling/organic document for OpNet - 2008 (the charter that Jack suggested and I am not compiling from what we've all discussed). More simply, the charter will set out the broad boundaries of OpNet - 2008 (including things we have all voted on) and the moderation staff would have the option to create tighter restrictions (but not looser restrictions) in situations where it was merited.

Also, I'd like to note that in interactions where arbitration is used, the arbitrator would have the option to use all of these house rules we've mentioned above. That way we still have a contiguous way for everyone to interact while simultaneously allow for a measure of uniqueness and "custom tailored" stories.

(the charter I mentioned is still in a rough draft stage; I'll post it up here once it's in a useable state)

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Can people run two characters?

[Singularity]

Yep, that was implicit in there.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Originally posted by Singularity:
...I'd like to note that in interactions where arbitration is used, the arbitrator would have the option to use all of these house rules we've mentioned above. That way we still have a contiguous way for everyone to interact while simultaneously allow for a measure of uniqueness and "custom tailored" stories.

"Would have the option"? So Puny Human only sometimes applies?

[Harold 'Mythic' Anderson]

(again, being lazy)

Potentially, yes. In a fiction involving several elites dealing with baselines then the rule would make perfect sense.

But in a fiction involving a few novox stars or some mentalists it might not be appropriate, even if one of them barely edges into the rule's applicability.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

7) Claws+Agg works like the errata.

8) MASTERY can't be attached to one or two dot powers (4 or 5 would work).

9) Regarding Molecular Manipulation's Destruction technique, it’s a disintegration effect, so the level of soak an object gets is normally zero unless it can soak aggravated damage.

10) Shockwave and Thunderclap work like the core book (or the APG’s errata) and do one Mega-die per dot of Mega-Strength and not 5x M-Strength in normal dice. This is to prevent 5 dots of Hypermovement from leveling cities.

[Singularity]

Just to review the results of the last poll, it appears that no character can have more than 10 points in flaws, no character can start with more than 5 permanent points in Taint, and there are no restrictions on the use of bonus points.

As for approving expansion material, I feel that if we incorporate elements of the system found on the current OpNet (someone presents an idea, it receives approval from some of the other players/writers, and the moderators review it for the final nod) could work well. However, since our numbers don't seem to be quite as high, we might want to reduce the approval number to three or four until time permits a larger population.

As for the minutiae regarding rules, this is where the "gap filling" role of a moderation staff would show its greatest advantages. After all, murder wasn't explicitly laid out in the Constitution nor do corporations lay out their precise accounting standards in their charters.

I would assume we have a general agreement regarding the expansion system?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

We still need to settle how much it costs to buy back flaws (granted, this may be a minor matter).

I'd argue for 2exp per 1 point of flaw.

EDIT: We also need a place to post characters for public review. I think that's about ready.

[Singularity]

Regarding buying back flaws, I'm afraid this could create a loophole. A bad loophole.

Consider this: 7 Bouns Points will give you an extra dot in Quantum, meaning 7 points in Flaws is relatively equivalent to a dot of Quantum. Were we to make Flaws something you could "buy back," that means an extra dot of Quantum will cost a player 14 experience points.

In comparison, a character's second dot of Quantum costs 8 experience. In realistic sense, a character that takes the time to get several points in Flaws won't be only purchasing one extra dot in Quantum. So we move on to buying a third dot of Quantum; that costs 16 experience points. Not too bad, a savings of 2 experience points already. Ah, but that fourth dot of Quantum costs 24 points; that's over two months of experience right there that's been saved.

Not to be harsh, but this is one reason why I have reservations regarding Flaws and experience.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Regarding buying back flaws, I'm afraid this could create a loophole. A bad loophole. ... Consider this:...[snip]

That is the worst case example. However the alternative is IMHO even more absurd.

• If I have an Enemy I can never buy him off, appease him, make peace, or even kill him… or I’m just so hated that another enemy pops up when ever I deal with the current one. If my Rival is Pax, then when Mal kills him, Mal will decide he also opposes everything I stand for.
• If I have a physical flaw, even if it’s recent, then it will never heal. This breaks cannon because given enough time all injuries on novas will heal.
• If I have a Debt then it can never be paid off. This breaks cannon because debts are supposed to be one time things.
• No amount of exposure or psych therapy (or telepathy) will cure an Intolerance or Flashbacks.
• If I have a Dependant he/she can never erupt, die, or even grow up, no matter how long the game goes on.
• If I'm Overconfident then I'll always be that way, even if I never win at anything and I'm dead last on the Elite charts (although this could be entertaining).

There are two solutions to that loophole.

1) Don’t allow the purchase of Quantum with Bonus points. This is the biggest opportunity to min max that people worry about.

2) Live with it. Life isn’t fair or balanced. The various types of points aren’t either. Some people will min max, it’s part of the system that it’s more efficient to pay for some things some ways.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

And as long as we are going to talk about how much those bonus points are worth as compaired to experience, let's actually do the math. Bonus points can buy the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th dot of quantum, those dots would cost in experience 8, 16, or 24 points of exp. It costs 7 bonus points each to do this. This results in 3 cases.

Case #1:

7 for +1Q

Total Experience Value: 8

Total Bonus Point Cost: 7

Average Exp cost per Bonus Point: 1.14

Case #2:

14 for +2Q

Total Experience Value: 8+16=24

Total Bonus Point Cost: 14

Average Exp cost per Bonus Point: 1.71

Case #3:

21 for +3Q

Total Experience Value: 8+16+24=48

Total Bonus Point Cost: 21

Average Exp cost per Bonus Point: 2.29

Where Bonus points really rock (or if you prefer, are unbalanced) is when we compare them to nova points. 7 bonus points is equal to 5 nova points for Quantum. 2 bonus points are equal to 1 nova point for willpower. 5 bonus points is equal to 1 nova point for backgrounds. 12 bonus points are equal to one nova point for abilities. 15 bonus points are equal to one nova point for Attributes. Or... a seldom used option is 3 Bonus point buys +3 Initiative, which requires 3 nova points. We don't see many people do this but this is an option.

So we have:

7/5: 1.2

2/1: 2

5/1: 5

12/1: 12

15/1: 15

3/3: 1 (best deal)

However we aren't talking about Nova points, the issue on the table is the bonus points to Experience point ratio.

[Ashnod]

how about we say that you can't buy off flaws at all. just one of those things. You have an enemy, he's there for the duration. you can't off him, but neither can he off you, etc.

I was never crazy about buying off flaws anyway.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod:
You have an enemy, he's there for the duration. you can't off him, but neither can he off you, etc.

Not much of an enemy if you don't need to worry about him killing you and you can't kill him.

[Singularity]

Troll, I was using that example as one reason why I'm hesitant to using experience to "buy-off" Flaws. There are merits to being able to buy off some Flaws over time; others, not so much.

As a rule of thumb, I feel Ashnod has the right of it: flaws cannot be bought off. However, I do acknowledge that some flaws can be bought off under certain circumstances.

For example (and pardon my fatigued mind): if a character goes through the pain-staking process to reconcile issues with their Enemy then I could see the Flaw being bought off. But if the character just kills the Enemy, I would suspect someone else might stand up and take the place of the deceased Enemy, hence the character is right back where they started.

Therefore, I would argue this particular issue is the sort that typically requires individualized review, making it particularly sticky. Sadly, I'm lacking an immediate solution to the issue other than "in general, flaws cannot be bought off with experience without approval from some sort of reviewing body."

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

... if a character goes through the pain-staking process to reconcile issues with their Enemy then I could see the Flaw being bought off. But if the character just kills the Enemy, I would suspect someone else might stand up and take the place of the deceased Enemy, hence the character is right back where they started.

That's exactly how I see the world working. Unless you pay exp when you make the move it doesn't stick (which very much describes how backgrounds are purchased).

And these things are an excuse/inventation for roll playing, no one should expect to pay the exp and just have the foe forget about you.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
That's exactly how I see the world working. Unless you pay exp when you make the move it doesn't stick (which very much describes how backgrounds are purchased).

And these things are an excuse/inventation for roll playing, no one should expect to pay the exp and just have the foe forget about you.

Unfortunately, that doesn't address one of the issues I noted: the necessity for individualized review.

[z-Carver]

Why not make buying off the Flaw prohibative? That allows it to be bought off for RP reasons if you really want to do it, but removes the chance for abuse by removing the possible benefit from buying it off. 10 points per Flaw point would make most people hesitate to buy it off unless they really want it.

As far as tracking/review, it becomes another thing to spend xp on and would be tracked just the same, however and if the mods choose to do it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Let me tell you where I'm coming from.

My (current) character erupted and ended up in a PU clinic. Everything considered, he should have picked up an Addiction to Andies. In cannon these drugs are addicting, and in cannon PU tries to get novas hooked while some of the other organizations try to get them off. BTW that gives a +1 diff to willpower rolls so it isn't a small thing.

I was planning to spend the first few months of RPing dealing with this, bad mouthing PU, increasing willpower from three to five, then buying off the addiction.

Because I don't know if that's an option, I'll switch my -2 flaw to -1 Trademark, & -1 Lusty. We only erupted 2 months ago, so I haven't been out of the clinic long enough to deal with the addiction, but even though I have no way IC to prevent him from getting hooked, he must have just gotten lucky.

/**********************************************/

I was (early) thinking of running another character who'd start with the flaw: Blind (-6). He didn't erupt that way, he screwwed up on a (nuclear) waste disposal mission and lost his eyes. ("Kick me here").

I thought it would be interesting, a high powered, highly paid, DeVries nova on site but blind through mis-adventure. But they are supposed to take (in cannon) *months* and not *years*.

[The White Rat]

I once made a character who was Blind, Deaf and Mute, as well as Quadriplegic before eruption. This was because he was in a coma when he erupted and only his mind could function. I named him 'Coma'. He used ESP to 'see' and Telepathy to 'speak'.

Buying off flaws in this case would be possible, only because he is in a coma, and he might wake up. If his flaws were more permanent, like irreversible paralysis or blindness, then they should not be able to be bought off.

Needless to say, buying off a 'coma' flaw would be very expensive.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Singularity:
But if the character just kills the Enemy, I would suspect someone else might stand up and take the place of the deceased Enemy, hence the character is right back where they started.

For example....

"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."