A Funny Thing Happened To Me...

[Timeslip]

Quote:

Jager - I'm a member of the Primacy, at least until I piss someone off and get kicked out.

Whereas I've finally slid into the Network.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Ashnod, No F***ing Way.
Prodigy, the same.

No. No. No.

If your purpose is to alienate newer posters and drive them from the board, just say it. Otherwise, I feel that everyone should have a voice in what goes on with the NotLK.
Even then, only Chosen should get to say that someone has, or has not, been a terat long enough to have a voice. For that matter, I also don't think this is something that happens in the vaccum of Teragen politics.
Orzaiz and Narcosis both use outsiders to gain favors and accomplish their goals. Other terats could also use proxies to accomplish their goals as needed.
I have long written in personal friendships between Jager, Orzaiz, and Geryon. He has hinted at a relationship with Caroline Fong and a hatred for the Apostle dating back to the start of the movement.
Neil Preston has a student-mentor relationship with SinEater and has been a nova of interest to Scripture.

Since I'm the recipient of the F-Bomb here, I want an apology.

I didn't say that was my opinion. I was only attempting to clarify someone else's, and I also said that if I was wrong to correct me.

[Jager]

Apology?

No. You decided to translate for Prodigy for whatever reason. I said "no" to your translation and "no" to the original post by Prodigy.

You asked for a correction. Maybe you intended Prodigy to correct you, but you didn't say that. It was a general statement and I responded to it.

[Ghostwriter]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
My personal hope -- and it's just that, a personal hope -- would be to see NV and the Casablancas win out, the Primacy and Harvesters reined in somewhat, and the Cult of Mal marginalized from the political end but still up and running for the "spiritual" mission. Better all ways around for the long-term health of the movement...and Mal and Orzaiz are bright enough to try to make sure that the movement's long-term health takes priority.

Though I technically don't come under those who would be making the decisions if Prodigy got his way, I certainly agree with you.

[kestrel404]

Timeslip: I'd say that's a best case scenario. And best case scenarios generally make for poor stories. Worst case scenarios are better, but could make the entire environment untennable for playing in. Something in the middle...

I actually don't care which faction wins in the end. For the record, Alchemist owes favors to the Harvesters. And yes, he knows what he's gotten himself into, he just doesn't realize how much of a bastard the man he's dealing with is.(the scientist in charge of the the American branch of the Harvesters, whose name I can't remember right now)

I'd be just as happy to see that whole branch trimmed from the Teragen tree as I would be if they become the main thrust of the movement. Is either scenario likely? Not particularly. But I actually don't care what happens to the individual factions.

What's actually important is that a good story get built from all of this, and that the aftermath is both fun and interesting. If the Teragen ends up afterwards as a somewhat radical clone of Utopia, with the same basic goals and different methods, then where's the fun in that? But if they end up as a group of monsters who blindly follow their god Mal into battle against everyone, that's pretty boring as well.

What should end up, regardless of the outcome, is that the Teragen becomes MORE dynamic. More driven, more individualistic, but also more focused (AKA, it needs at least a bit of focus, beyond the individual or the faction). In other words, it needs to become more like the Teragen. That would make for fun times.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
That's all well and good, Prodigy, but this whole cutoff business is baloney. The "year cutoff" may not have been directed at me, but it sure as all hell would affect me if put into place. And when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, it isn't needed; I doubt in the extreme that there will be a major wave of brand-new Terats sweeping in and somehow screwing up NotLK (especially if the Plot Events thing comes on line, which will give the whole deal a smidgen of structure).

Yeah, Chaos is new to the boards; that said, he's been hinted at in Timeslip's past for a while, he's being run by someone who is one of the most responsible players I've ever know and who has run him TT for years, and even if none of the above held true he would have every bit as much right to take part in these events as would someone who had been on these boards since Nanosecond One.

The absolute last thing that this board needs is institutionalization of VSS (Veteran Superiority Syndrome).

You've got some good points and I'm willing to discuss that. I'm not interested in instituting any sort of VSS either. That's bogus. My major concern is to keep NotLK from being some group grope with a bunch of people who haven't made any attempt to actually try being Terats and dealing with that part of the game having a big say in it.

I wouldn't have a problem with you or even Chaos from being involved.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ashnod:
I don't think Prodigy is saying he's concerned that a new "wave" of Terats will screw up the NoLK, or even that he's concerned with people participating in the story.

I think he's saying that the overall arc of it, which scenarios are going to become site canon and which get left on the cutting room floor, should be in the hands of the people who have been the Terat players here, and that it's not fair to those players who have been the Teragen presence on the forums to suddenly have the whims of those who OOCLy don't like the Teragen sweep through and make it as damaging or transformative as possible.

I don't think he's saying that people can't participate in it at all if they haven't been playing Terat characters for a while, only that the core Terat players should be given the voice to determine what's going to happen.

Correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly.

Damn but you talk purty.


But yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Ashnod, No F***ing Way.
Prodigy, the same.

No. No. No.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

If your purpose is to alienate newer posters and drive them from the board, just say it.

Oh fucking please. That isn't even near my purpose. Sorry for not having made that clear. Read above posts for clarification.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
Otherwise, I feel that everyone should have a voice in what goes on with the NotLK.

Congratulations. We disagree.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
For that matter, I also don't think this is something that happens in the vaccum of Teragen politics.
Orzaiz and Narcosis both use outsiders to gain favors and accomplish their goals. Other terats could also use proxies to accomplish their goals as needed.

Use proxies as tools? Sure, I could see that. But the decision making is going to come from Terats and those actions are going to be made regarding each of their particular view of Teras, personal grudges, and politics within the Teragen. In the end this is a Terat story and the players here who play Terats, whose lives will be most heavily impacted should have the say in how it goes down with Chosen's okay.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
I have long written in personal friendships between Jager, Orzaiz, and Geryon. He has hinted at a relationship with Caroline Fong and a hatred for the Apostle dating back to the start of the movement.
Neil Preston has a student-mentor relationship with SinEater and has been a nova of interest to Scripture.

Jager is kind of unusual though. He also has a Utopian girlfriend, has been invovled with Russian criminals and dealt with the Directive, WCK and pretty much everything else on the planet. He's got fingers everywhere. He is your tool to be able to interact with any situation regardless of where it is. As for Neil, is he a Terat or is he a science experiment? If he just has a 'relationship' I don't see him being a player in this. He could just wake up and find out a few of his buddies are dead.

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:

Lastly, exactly what internal factions do the board's terats belong to, if any?

Prodigy is semi-aligned with the Casablancas but more free-lance. Has dealt with Primacy, NV and the Harvesters when it comes to intelligence and planning aid.

Lemmy and Slattern are both Pandaemonium.


And just to make it clear, I run three Terats but do not think that gives me any more weight than a player only running a single Terat.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
Oh, and I'll paraphrase here something that I just said in a discussion about this in chat:

Hang the developers, and hang their initial intentions for the outcome of NotLK. We're off the map here, and can take it where it will best suit N!Prime. I personally don't think that transforming the Teragen into a bunch of raving bomb-throwers will accomplish that goal.

Well, there are definetely some suggestions for direction but I agree that it isn't exactly mapped out or anything. I also agree that turning the Teragen into "raving bomb-throwers" is also not a direction I'd like to see.

[Y.T.]

Vanguard doesn't belong to any interal faction. He deals with other teragen like people, as in on there own merits.

He tends to adviod those who think they should act based on how they look, and those that put to much value in money.

[Jager]

Okay Prodigy.

My argument in this two-fold.

One, this is more than a terat story. It is a story that impacts, or will impact, all novas. Hell, it impacts the whole world.

Two, this is something that will effect anyone who wants to play a terat in the future, or someone who wants an existing character to become a terat.

Fine, you and a few others have chosen to play terats and this is a big thing in their immediate lives. It is a choice the players made and right now it could suck to be caught up in a canon event like this. Paraphrasing something you once told me, 'this could still make a great story.'

I hope that it is going to be a democratic choir of voices being heard by Chosen and not just a select few.

[Timeslip]

By the way, happy campers, Chosen mentioned in chat the other day that (1) NotLK is a good year off right now and (2) the Plot Events system should be up and debugged and running by then. So, with any luck, we'll be able to submit our ideas to Chosen as the time draws closer, and then let him shuffle through the mess and hand out hooks to the appropriate characters.

As such, everyone gets to be heard, Chosen gets to put more weight where it is warranted, and nobody need maintain a full head of steam; we can relax and just role-play the fucker.

[Fortune's Son]

I read this thread early this morning and throughout the day gave it some thoughts in between other tasks. My views on NotLK is known having been expressed in other threads, so I used the time primarily to indulge a hobby of mine. To put it bluntly, I constructed counter-arguments to shred both Jager and Prodigy's arguments. To be truthful, its primarily an intellectual exercise as in this matter I lend more credence to Prodigy's argument, though not for the same reason he does, than I do Jager's argument. While doing this a thought occured to me; my views on NotLK have to do with the forces in play rather than any personal interest. Candidly I don't actually care how it plays out. Since I don't care on a personal level about the outcome of NotLK, that gives me a different view of the arguments concerning that subject.

I am also not a proponent of writing the future by democratic consensus. I thought I would admit that before I go any further with this. While not caring personally, and being against democratic consensus for several reasons, I still hold opinions on NotLK that might be of interest to some. The opinions come in three flavors; bad news, worse news and really bad news.

Bad news: Per the Teragen book, NotLK is not about whether the teragen children are murdered or subjected to taint to force their evolution. It is not about whether The Apostle successfully murders Scripture, who does the deed, and what the ramifications of that action are. Those are sub-plots. Night of the Long Knives is about Mal growing tired of the incessant bickering and lack of progress within the teragen as a whole, to the point that he pours gasoline down the ant hill then lights a fire to observe which ants run in which direction and with what other ants. That's pretty bad news but it gets worse.

Worse news: Night of the Long Knives is also not about the future of nova-kind. That's already written, and anyone that isn't aware of the course it will take needs to brush up on the Aberrant War and Trinity history. Those that play precognitives of nigh infinite ability on this board hold certain very specifics views for good reason; the players involved already know which way the wind is blowing. While the death of the children or actions of The Apostles will have ramifications, those ramification will not change the course of history that is to come. It will color that history of course, but each of those events will merely be tone and character to the event, not sufficient to sway the outcome of the event itself. From the bad news and worse news I reiterate the same views I offered on another thread; this is about the Terats being forced to choose a course under the influence and watchful eye of Mal. The only way Mal would allow an outsider to influence the event of his Teragen, is if the action were already predetermined therefore the outsider is merely making the inevitable more efficient and unknowingly carrying out the will of Mal. This is not to say that a PC couldn't inadvertently discover and then convey information that would lead to the downfall of the Apostle, but it does mean that an outsider is not going to be the one to send the Church of Mal into oblivion. I realize some will disagree, but I care about that as much as I care about the ultimate outcome of NotLK.

The Really Bad News: N!Prime is about interaction and fun. While I've seen the phrase "I want to tell my character's story" quite a bit in the archived threads, I consider that strangely lacking as an explanation. Despite the growing fiction in the site, if people only wanted to tell their own story they'd merely write it down or find a troupe with an ST amenable to long monologues and rambling soliloquies. We come here to interact with other players and allow our characters to interact with other characters. Anyone that thinks they are only telling thier own character's story in a vaccuum needs to rethink what they are doing. None of us in this thread are going to decide how NotLK plays out. It'll be done by Chosen, probably with the assistance of his directors. I don't believe anyone wants a democratic process either by the way, though I believe some want to keep pushing their views in the hope those views be taken into account when Chosen makes the final decision.

None of that is the Really Bad news though. Here it is; if this argument goes the way such things seem to go these days, the Really Bad News is that the most vocal on the subject are making the following recommendation the most likely course of action:

For Chosen and the Directors - If this event becomes a source of OOC contention, I recommend a simple solution. Let everyone know that the Night of the Long Knives happened three ago when it was suppose to have happened, what the results were and who survived it under what alliances. Please try to structure the outcome to support the roleplay of characters who in the interim have allied themselves with Terats such as Timeeslip allying with Orzaiz and the Casablancas. But otherwise just announce the results.

While I believe any event that increases interaction at the site is arguably "good", should that interaction become characterized by anger and petulance its time to pull the plug.

Wouldn't it be nice though if as a group we were willing to give as much as we all expect to receive for our own character. Kept the IC seperate from the OOC and just had some fun? Anyway, I've said my piece.

Personal mileage may vary.

[Hugin]

Per the information from Timeslip regarding Chosen's views I'm done with this thread. We'll talk about it again, if we actually need to, when the information actually will have some meaning.

[Jager]

Jack, if you really don't care, why post?

You do have strong opinions on the matter. You believe that what PC's do here won't really matter. What we want won't really matter.

If it is going to be Chosen's decision, why not just have Chosen, or one of the Directors step up and say it out of the rest of our hands? That would solve so many of the issues here.

If the NotLK's is going to to be STed to us, it would be nice to know so that we don't need to have any seriously considered opinions on the matter, because our opinions won't matter, and we can get back to playing the game here as best we can?

[Fortune's Son]

Why post at all on this subject? Primarily because I care about the nature of OOC interactions on this site. If you'd like to know the other reasons you can PM me. Those involve matters I am not inclined to invite public comment on.

As for your suggestion that Chosen or the directors step up and take definitive action, I believe that's part of what I've already recommended in the green area of my original post. I simply believe such an extreme action should be contingent on the interactions between players.

Personal mileage may vary.

[Kirby1024]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
If the NotLK's is going to to be STed to us, it would be nice to know so that we don't need to have any seriously considered opinions on the matter, because our opinions won't matter, and we can get back to playing the game here as best we can?

I continue to find it odd that people seem to think we're not interested in people's opinions when the directions we take mean that they may not hold the same weight as our own.

Even if player's opinions are unlikely to influence the actions we take (and of course that's going to happen - we can't please everyone, nor do we expect to), we still want them. We still want people to tell us what they think of various courses of action. At the very least, while the destination may not change, we may at the very least adjust the journey a little.

It is true that Chosen owns this site, and that, in effect, his word is god, but it is also true that the players are an important part of this site too. We do want players to talk about these sorts of things. But we also have to do what's workable and/or best for the site, and sometimes the consensus is unworkable, or not for the best.

In other words, continue.