Group fictions and Time.

[Dreamer]

We have seen in the past that nearly bar none a group fiction takes longer to post than the time frame in the fiction. The simplest and easiest one would be http://www.nprime.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000356;p=1&r=nfx Now I do not mean to bash or say anything negative with this story. I just wish to say a few things that may help.

What I am trying to say is that either it hasn't happened yet, or it is long over. This means if it has happened then all the novas in the the story have strangely been silent and no one out side there little group knows anything about what happened. Or if the fiction hasn't happened and all these novas have been strangely silent for no reason.

My point is that group fictions are often about what a group of novas does for one day, yet they take from days to weeks to write. So given that this site moves forward in time at real time you run in to a few problems. I don't really have a set answer on how to fix this problem. I have a few ideas but I don't know if they will work.

One, have the end of the story done before you start. IE if any characters will die, or if something really big will happen in the story. News gets around fast.

Two post in other threads. Just he story about the party may still be going on, but people get over things. They move on and go back to their lives.

Three remember that each story has it's own time speed that may or may not sink up with the site's time. A story about a nigh in a club that goes on for a month is still a day in the story and by the time the story ended the characters would have been out of the club for about a month. Do you really think the characters would have done nothing that month?

[Sakurako Hino]

I think we have that covered, Dreamer, thanks for your concern.

[Jager]

A little suspension of disbelief, a bit of concensus amongst the members, and a dash of whatever works.

In the end, people remain quiet here a day or two, or more and nothing odd is thought of it. Also, not every event in novadom ends up being common knowledge. Some things happen in reletive silence.

[Timeslip]

Endeavor and Jager, you're both wonderful people with excellent capacities for both tact and reserve.

I am not.

Dreamer, you sat there last night trolling the chat, tossing your unwanted, unwarranted and uncomprehending ramblings about the current group fiction at us like so many rotting fish, until we couldn't take it anymore and told you to knock it off and/or relegated you to the /ignore wastelands. Now, you feel the desperate need to stir up a problem that frankly isn't a problem. Both are examples of you being chronically unable to keep your damned nose in your own damned business.

For all you know, the fiction to which you linked might be over in an IC day...or, it might take days or even weeks. E.g., it might take time to nail the antagonist to a particular location, or the characters might decide to make an offer or ultimatum, or something else may happen that causes time to significantly advance within the story (and don't forget, we're heavily laden with temporal tweakers; damned near anything can happen).

Also, at the end of a particularly trying story, do you really think that people are going to be jumping on their terminals to merrily chat it up on the web, or is it possible that they might take a little bit of down time to come to grips with whatever just happened? Yes, I know, you don't have a life and thus cannot comprehend not being on the 'net for every waking moment, but some of us do (or at least have seen enough people with lives to figure it out).

Finally, not every nova posts every freaking day, regardless of whether or not a fiction is in progress. See above regarding having a life.

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
We have seen in the past that nearly bar none a group fiction takes longer to post than the time frame in the fiction. The simplest and easiest one would be http://www.nprime.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000356;p=1&r=nfx Now I do not mean to bash or say anything negative with this story. I just wish to say a few things that may help.

If you have seen this before Dreamer, then why bring it up now? I find the timing on this a little suspicious, considering that you were dismissed in chat last night as TS has pointed out. You could have picked the wedding thread or even "Amped at the wedding", which took place out of sequence temporally with the rest of the wedding.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
What I am trying to say is that either it hasn't happened yet, or it is long over. This means if it has happened then all the novas in the story have strangely been silent and no one out side there little group knows anything about what happened. Or if the fiction hasn't happened and all these novas have been strangely silent for no reason.

My point is that group fictions are often about what a group of novas does for one day, yet they take from days to weeks to write. So given that this site moves forward in time at real time you run in to a few problems. I don't really have a set answer on how to fix this problem. I have a few ideas but I don't know if they will work.

So it happens all the time. Hell, my solitary fiction, “Angel and Baby” was written three weeks after it happened because I didn’t want to write it before Long and TS’s wedding (that would spoil the surprise of the gift) and because just after the wedding, I was tied up mentally in other non-nprime projects. My point is that you’re the only one who has a problem. I suggest that you suck it up and deal. Writing fiction takes time – a story may take a day but won’t necessarily be written in a day.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
One, have the end of the story done before you start. IE if any characters will die, or if something really big will happen in the story. News gets around fast.

So if I decide to write a murder mystery on the boards I’m screwed. Now that I think of it, “Tomb” was back-dated as well because I wasn’t a part of the boards when Ibiza was destroyed. But “Tomb” is my example of a story that would be significantly altered if I had to give the ending up front.

Most of us know how our fiction will end, or our parts in that fiction. In the story you used as your example, I know how it will end for Carver and there is a reason she hasn’t been posting on the boards. I’m not going to tell you what that is, though you may have seen it if you were following the chat last night.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
Two post in other threads. Just he story about the party may still be going on, but people get over things. They move on and go back to their lives.

I believe that will occur as needed. And don’t forget, some people don’t post every day. Carver tends to remain silent unless she has something to add, so her not posting on the in-character boards is in-character.

Quote:

Originally posted by Dreamer:
Three remember that each story has it's own time speed that may or may not sink up with the site's time. A story about a nigh in a club that goes on for a month is still a day in the story and by the time the story ended the characters would have been out of the club for about a month. Do you really think the characters would have done nothing that month?

And see my points above. Many people would be doing other things in that month once the fiction has moved past its own timeframe. Group fictions tend to move pretty slowly – last night was different because we all got on a writing jag and we blazed through more than forty posts. We have seven novas involved in this story and all of us have other things outside of NPrime that we have to attend to: work, family, etc.

Dreamer, I’m trying to say this: you’re the only one having a problem, you’re only getting upset with this practice after getting slammed in chat for it, and I’m calling you on that. It’s damned immature and damned annoying. Stop it.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Timeslip:
Endeavor and Jager, you're both wonderful people with excellent capacities for both tact and reserve.

I am not.

Dreamer, you sat there last night trolling the chat, tossing your unwanted, unwarranted and uncomprehending ramblings about the current group fiction at us like so many rotting fish.

Finally, not every nova posts every freaking day, regardless of whether or not a fiction is in progress. See above regarding having a life.

Point one of the. I was threatened with being ignored because I wasn't talking about about the story. I was told in a rather firm tone that I couldn't talk about said story because I wasn't in it. So if I talked about the stiry I was in the wrong and my talking about Tommy's love for a site all three or four posts some how caused a black hole in the chat.. Oh whatever.

Point two, was TS and many other people posting not only right after but durring Ibzia. Sorry if I don't find SK as scary as the shit that went down there.

Point three, I will get to it when repling to Carver.

[Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally posted by Carver:
]If you have seen this before Dreamer, then why bring it up now? I find the timing on this a little suspicious, considering that you were dismissed in chat last night as TS has pointed out. You could have picked the wedding thread or even "Amped at the wedding", which took place out of sequence temporally with the rest of the wedding.

So it happens all the time. Hell, my solitary fiction, “Angel and Baby” was written three weeks after it happened because I didn’t want to write it before Long and TS’s wedding (that would spoil the surprise of the gift) and because just after the wedding, I was tied up mentally in other non-nprime projects. My point is that you’re the only one who has a problem. I suggest that you suck it up and deal. Writing fiction takes time – a story may take a day but won’t necessarily be written in a day.

So if I decide to write a murder mystery on the boards I’m screwed. Now that I think of it, “Tomb” was back-dated as well because I wasn’t a part of the boards when Ibiza was destroyed. But “Tomb” is my example of a story that would be significantly altered if I had to give the ending up front.

Most of us know how our fiction will end, or our parts in that fiction. In the story you used as your example, I know how it will end for Carver and there is a reason she hasn't’t been posting on the boards. I’m not going to tell you what that is, though you may have seen it if you were following the chat last night.

I believe that will occur as needed. And don’t forget, some people don’t post every day. Carver tends to remain silent unless she has something to add, so her not posting on the in-character boards is in-character.

And see my points above. Many people would be doing other things in that month once the fiction has moved past its own timeframe. Group fictions tend to move pretty slowly – last night was different because we all got on a writing jag and we blazed through more than forty posts. We have seven novas involved in this story and all of us have other things outside of NPrime that we have to attend to: work, family, etc.

Dreamer, I’m trying to say this: you’re the only one having a problem, you’re only getting upset with this practice after getting slammed in chat for it, and I’m calling you on that. It’s damned immature and damned annoying. Stop it.

Why bring it up now? Simple there are a lot them going down now. If you think there is more than that, well maybe there is.

And Carver about your fictions, would the whole world know about the outcomes before the stories were done? Oh wait, they basically did. You wrote your stories about the past to build characters and back ground, but you were still play Carver as if the stories already took place. So when you wrote in the wedding fiction giving the gift to TS and Long it was prefectly reasonable for you not have had the story behind the Angel done. It wasn't like the world knew what was going on in Carver's head.

As for a murder mystery. That depends on who dies, if Carver, Hino, Totem or Neil Died, it is highly likely to make news in such away that people on the board would notice it. If random person dies, eh. After all there are over 12,000 peopled a year that killed by with gun in the US, about three times that many are killed in car crashes and many thousands are killed by smoking. Someone winding up dead in the US is rarely news. Novas don't really tend to die without people noticing.

As for the only one with a problem with group fictions, nah. You are wrong, I just happen to be the only vocal one. Not the same thing.

And if I was Trolling here.I would have won, you replied. I wasn't trolling I was pointing out that I have seen core problems within a style of fictions on this site that hasn't been openly addressed. It is not about this story. this story will be posted and life will move on, but when the next Group fiction pops up,I don't want to hear none of your bitching on how someone needs to post because if they don't the story is stuck. After all TS and Carver you were the ones telling me that people have lives, so if you are going to give advice about how I should understand that idea you better damned well deal with it too.

[z-Carver]

Dreamer, you opened a topic for discussion. I replied. You acted as if you were serious about this being discussed, so I replied seriously. If you want to chastise me for replying to a post that you put forward as a discussion, then that's not my problem. You are dealing with adults. Act like one.

,,

Quote:

Orginially posted by Dreamer:

As for the only one with a problem with group fictions, nah. You are wrong, I just happen to be the only vocal one. Not the same thing.

Then let them post. If others have a problem with them, then let them speak up (and no, your alternate characters out here don't count as other people). You have stated that others have a problem with the group fictions - let them speak up and be heard. Otherwise, I'm going to assume that they either don't care enough to express their opinions or you are wrong.

If you make a statement, prove it. And since you openly admitted that there is more to it:

,,

Quote:

Orginially posted by Dreamer:

Why bring it up now... If you think there is more than that, well maybe there is.--italics mine-Carver

...I'm going to have to assume that this entire thread is an angry reaction to being ignored.,,

Quote:

Orginially posted by Dreamer:

I was pointing out that I have seen core problems within a style of fictions on this site that hasn't been openly addressed... when the next Group fiction pops up,I don't want to hear none of your bitching on how someone needs to post because if they don't the story is stuck. After all TS and Carver you were the ones telling me that people have lives, so if you are going to give advice about how I should understand that idea you better damned well deal with it too.

No one was angry at someone for not posting. They were frustrated at the delay - perhaps that wasn't expressed well, but mature individuals can understand things like that. If you can't, you might want to stop and think about that for a while and see if it becomes clear.

And before this becomes a TS/Carver vs. Dreamer and allies, I want to make this clear. I have nothing against you personally; I feel that your reaction is childish and founded on feelings of hurt over being snapped at and ignored last night. Grow up. Deal. Everyone snaps at other people; everyone feels left out sometimes.

Normally, I have no problem with you or your posts in chat. I read your stories regularly. Why can't you understand that this is making trouble of a non-issue?

[Timeslip]

Point four, Ibiza was largely handled in an OpNet thread, and thus worked out a bit differently.

Point five, you're an annoying gadfly in chat, throwing out a steady stream of non-sequitors and trolls, and doing so with such horrific syntax and spelling that it is often more trouble to figure out what you're trying to say than it is worth.

Point six, save your keystrokes; you're cute little troll thread here has been shot quite full of holes, and the prospect for it recovering is rather grim.

[Dreamer]

You are right, I don;t know how to deal with this problem, like I said in my first post I don't have the awnsers. I just know there is a problem.

But really if you think I am trolling, then no matter what logic you use, it will not change a thing. Replying is just stupid.

[Timeslip]

Yes, there is a problem. You can find it by looking in the mirror.

Goodbye.

[Dreamer]

Timeslip took a commentary about a type of fiction as an attack on you. I am sorry if my wording was misleading You as a person are not the target of this post neither is your fiction(s). My target was the group fictions, and their problems. I linked your fiction because it was active and fresh within the memory of the site. I would say that everyone on the site has least read it. So I chose a tangible story with tangible problems, over a dead one that not everyone remembers or even have read.

If you think that I acted out my anger from last night you are damned right I was anger but not for the reasons you have stated. The chat was a Symptom not the cause. I have been upset with how group fictions have been done for a whole lot longer than you have been on this site.

I dislike the way people feel the need to go into every minute and every breath in the story I dislike the way that characters misterously disappear from the site when their players are in a story. I dislike the great big news stories being broke weeks after they happen. I dislike the way the bog down. I dislike a lot of things but I think you get the point.

I do not think your stories are any better or worse than any group fictions. I understand that they will always be on this site. I do think that addressing some of the problems with them would make them more enjoyable for everyone.

[Timeslip]

If you don't like the way the current group fictions run, don't read them.

If you want some group fictions that run differently, find some like-minded people and write some.

And if you aren't willing to do one of the above, shut the fuck up. Stop your whining, and just shut the hell up.

It's that simple.

[Sakurako Hino]

I can solve all of Dreamer's arguements VERY bluntly.

1: Not all characters are active on the opnet at all times.

2: Sometimes a Nova has more important things to do than be on an OpNet forum.

3: You're taking this too serously, Dreamer.

All in all, with at one time Dreamer showing a lax interest in all this, to all of a sudden being an expert, then FLAMING a group of people in the forums for ignoring her because she derailed a chat room conversation...

All in all, this was meant to start a confrontation. Not an actual debate.

Around here, trolling gets you nowhere.

[Kirby1024]

As a brief note to all ladies and gentlemen debating or otherwise I would like to kindly note to everyone that this board strives to maintain netiquette and etiquette where applicable, and that several people on this thread are treading very close to incurring the wrath of the N! Prime Staff.

If this conversation continues as is, this thread will be locked, and there will be repercussions against everyone not obeying the golden rule. If people still have something to say, I recommend that people maintain tactful communication while they do so. If you cannot do so, then do not continue with this conversation. If you still have issues with players and/or characters that you desperately need to get out, I recommend PMing your friendly Director for assistance.

That is all.

[Timeslip]

Fair 'nuff, all ways 'round. That said, a bit of the old lockage might be exactly what is needed for this thread; it isn't going anywhere remotely good, and like some sort of evil chocolate it keeps drawing out the worst in people, myself included. And when Endeavor of all people goes off on someone, you just know that things have taken a rather severe spiral down the plumbing.

[Kirby1024]

I feel locking is a last resort. It has several unfortunate and unavoidable consequences, such as (on this site) giving the last person who spoke the final say unto perpetuity, which has issues. I am happy to warn people to be nice and leave things be unless they flare up. Most people on this site are fairly accomodating, and understand the intent of the warning - in that I'm happy for the discussion to continue, but that the manner in which it is occuring is unacceptable.

If the discussion itself is unacceptable, you'd better believe I'd lock it quick-smart with a very stern note to all, but fortunately that comes up rarely if ever.

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Endeavor:
I can solve all of Dreamer's arguements VERY bluntly.

1: Not all characters are active on the opnet at all times.
2: Sometimes a Nova has more important things to do than be on an OpNet forum.
3: You're taking this too serously, Dreamer.

All in all, with at one time Dreamer showing a lax interest in all this, to all of a sudden being an expert, then FLAMING a group of people in the forums for ignoring her because she derailed a chat room conversation...

All in all, this was meant to start a confrontation. Not an actual debate.

Around here, trolling gets you nowhere.

Let's clap to the mind reader. You know me so well, that I shouldn't even need to post this.

Tommy, can you point to a group fiction in the past that started after you joined this site that you weren't part of?

But really I said I was sorry if people thought it was a personall attack. You then flame me with this post. great, have your fucking two cents.Do you want a gold star too?

Yes,I know about the first points. Then again tell me why Preston would be less active on opnet when Jager is more active in a group story? I understand not all characters are active all the time I was pointing out how it is funny that people who are normally active all the time fade from the spot light for however long a group fiction seems to take in the real world.

Funny you should bring up derailing a chat room.I was talking rather civily then the topic changed to the group fiction. Where as I recall you said I couldn't talk about it cause I wasn't in it, and talking about anything else was just wrong. So take your catch 22, and shove it up your ass.

Sorry to the rest of you. If no one else pots direct attacks me I'll not post in this thread again.

[Sakurako Hino]

I doubt that was the case Y.T., Dreamer, et al.

[Amped]

I feel I need to say, I was the original person to make the comment that had Dreamer responding off topic, and she was the one that got bitched at, not me.

Also, there is nothing stating that the chatroom can only be used for one topic at a time, as long as the topic when you long in says "Open Discussion." If the chat is pertaining to a group fiction and only a group fiction maybe there should be a chat room made with that as the topic. It is possible for a user to create a room.

[Sakurako Hino]

Thing is, Amped, Dreamer was the one being flippant in the chat room, interrupting people, throwing off trains of thought, or generally being a nuisance.

And the off-track stuff Dreamer mentioned that I posted was only because people WERE WAITING to post in the thread we were working on. So first, since people were getting hot, I decided to diffuse the situation with a funny site I found. Then, as things had wound down, I had posted an interesting site.

Nothing more. Dreamer was being practically disruptive.

You were fine, Amped. You posted a point or two, in not exactly good conditions.

I don't know how, personally, to create a seperate room. Also, I'm really feeling uncomfortable right now posting, since I'm now feeling the need to defend myself, and if I get any more hotter, I might get a sanction of some sort on me.

Simply put, if this arguement has gone beyond a conflict between a couple people, and into forum DRAMA of this size, it's becoming less worth it to interact here when someone somewhere will get their panties in a bunch and try to escalate this arguement to this level.

[Amped]

Sorry Endeavor, I wasn't trying to attack anybody, or point out anything to an individual, or single anybody out in any sort of way.

Now that I look at it though, it looks like our ability to create rooms is gone now anyway.

[Sakurako Hino]

My comment wasn't towards you, Amped. It was in general. Outside of the people I do know here, I am uncomfortable.

[Kirby1024]

I feel it is time to lock this thread. Clearly there are emotions around this subject which aren't abating. If people still feel the need to discuss things with other people, I recommend taking it to PM. If you still feel that you have issues that you must get off your chest, your friendly local directors are here to take your PM.