arxmage Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Hi everyone. I'm brand new to the forum, and haven't played a lot of Aberrant... (I've played it for a few years, but quite irregularly). I'm working on building a power, but I'd like some input as to whether it's under or overpowered.This is the first time I've tried creating a power, so be honest and let me know what you think. My motivation is that I'd really like to make a Combat Medic sort of character, but I feel that heal is very underpowered. Rather than beef up the original Heal, I decided to create a higher level type of heal:Healing CircleLevel: 4Quantum: 5Range: Touch or AoE about NovaArea of Effect: Personal or 10xPower Rating foot radius (or should the AoE be 5’/level?)Individual Healing: The first part of this power allows the Nova to heal more efficiently than the Level 3 Power ‘Heal.’ To use this power on one target, the Nova must touch the wounded entity and roll Quantum + 3xHealingCircle at a Difficulty of 7. Each success heals 2 levels of bashing damage or 1 level of lethal damage. Each success costs the Nova one quantum point. Aggravated wounds may also be healed with this power. To heal aggravated wounds, the same die pool is rolled but the Difficulty is 9. (Alternately, the dice may be rolled at a difficulty of 7 and each health level requires two successes to be healed.) Each success heals one level of aggravated damage and costs one quantum point. Healing aggravated wounds also requires the expenditure of a willpower point.Healing Circle: The second part of the power allows the Nova to heal all wounded entities (friendly or hostile) in a radius around him/her. To use this power, the Nova spends a point of willpower and takes one Health Level of Lethal damage, then rolls Quantum/2 + 2xHealingCircleat a Difficulty of 7. The results of this roll are the same as those given above. In addition to the initial expenditure of willpower and the health level, the Nova must spend one quantum point for each success on the die roll.Just for reference, I (math geek) ran some numbers to compare this heal to the old one... I can tell the tables are gonna get messed up in the HTML, but you should be able to follow them if you look closely. =)Given a Quantum of 5, a Nova with the given level of Healing Circle would heal the following amounts on average:INDIVIDUAL HEALINGHC Bashing Lethal Aggravated1 6.4 3.2 1.62 8.8 4.4 2.23 11.2 5.6 2.84 13.2 6.6 3.45 16.6 7.8 4[For reference, the old Heal skill would have healed 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 levels of bashing and 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 levels of lethal damage]GROUP HEALINGHC Bashing Lethal Aggravated1 3.2 1.6 0.82 4.8 2.4 1.23 6.4 3.2 1.64 8 4 25 9.6 4.8 2.4Thanks again for your input!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quote:Healing CircleLevel: 4Quantum: 5Level 4 powers require a Q of 6+.Quote: Area of Effect: Personal or 10xPower Rating foot radius (or should the AoE be 5'/level?)I think it is (Q+L)x5Quote:Individual Healing: The first part of this power allows the Nova to heal more efficiently than the Level 3 Power "Heal.' To use this power on one target, the Nova must touch the wounded entity and roll Quantum + 3xHealingCircle at a Difficulty of 7.??? Meaning you need to have 8 successes to do anything? The die roll required for a single success in Aberrant is ALWAYS 7.Quote:Aggravated wounds may also be healed with this power.Standard costs for healing AGG is x3 q cost.I'm not sure what to make of area affect healing.You might be better off just getting –3 in weaknesses on healing so that you can buy Healing+Reduced Q cost. That would let you heal one health level on anyone without q cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kincaid Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Plus with Q6 you could always just get the area effect extra as your 'freebie' ... it would still be centered on the healer & the ST might even require group touch as above but I don't see the need for a brand new power for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arxmage Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quote:Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith: Quote:Healing CircleLevel: 4Quantum: 5Level 4 powers require a Q of 6+.That sucks. But ok. Thank you.Quote:Quote: Area of Effect: Personal or 10xPower Rating foot radius (or should the AoE be 5'/level?)I think it is (Q+L)x5I like that one.Quote:Quote:Individual Healing: The first part of this power allows the Nova to heal more efficiently than the Level 3 Power "Heal.' To use this power on one target, the Nova must touch the wounded entity and roll Quantum + 3xHealingCircle at a Difficulty of 7.??? Meaning you need to have 8 successes to do anything? The die roll required for a single success in Aberrant is ALWAYS 7.No... What I meant was that your die pool would be your Quantum + 3 times your rating in Healing Circle. The number of successes on this roll (against difficulty 7) is then used to determine the number of health levels that are healed. One of the things that really annoyed me about the old Healing power was that it's power was fixed. If you had 3 in Healing, you healed 6 Bashing or 3 Lethal. No more, no less. I really like rolling the dice and watching luck play a role in the game.Quote:Quote:Aggravated wounds may also be healed with this power.Standard costs for healing AGG is x3 q cost.fair enough. Just needed to hear that there was already a rule for that.Quote:I'm not sure what to make of area affect healing.You might be better off just getting –3 in weaknesses on healing so that you can buy Healing+Reduced Q cost. That would let you heal one health level on anyone without q cost. Ok... I don't know what this is... Is this in the Player's Handbook (the Reddish book)? If so, I don't have it, and I wasn't looking forward to ordering another book online and waiting for it to get to me. =POther issues that I have are the one I already mentioned about the fact that Healing heals a fixed amount of damage, not a variable amount, and that I really believe that the Healing power currently in use is horribly underpowered. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but... yea... It can be used once per scene, it has a relatively high quantumpoint cost for what it does...The other thing I forgot to mention about AoE Healing... I planned to make it that everything (hostile and friendly) in the area was healed. So it's really not a combat healing spell in it's AoE incarnation.I'm almost curious as to whether people have modified the level or quantum requirement of healing in their in-house rules. I'm really looking forward to playing a Combat Medic type of character, but I play with some people who have some munchkin tendencies, so a character built around a weak skill isn't going to go over particularly well.Thank you for your responses, and please keep letting me know what you think! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kincaid Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Combat medics can be interesting. I almost made a character with Electical Powers & Healing for the Aberrants Awakening game here. Had we started with more than 30 NP I probably would have.But to me this points out the way I like to go with healing ... make it part of a overall concept. The PC I was talking about above would have used EM to heal. Other ideas I've had include combining healing with aggrivated claws (weakness for biological stuff only) or having a PC with healing an the Bioentropic Storm technique from Entropy Control as a stand alone level 2 power. The idea here is that the man who can heal can also cause biological systems to fall apart....Shapechange and Healing go well together too IMO. I had an idea for a PC in another game system who's healing left a 'bloody palm' print on the recipient. What would not have been as well known is that he healed by transfering something like microscopic machines (created as an extension of shapeshift abilities) to the target ... while they did heal they also hung around in the body for a while & could be remotely controlled by the PC to do other things. It was nasty & sneaky. I liked it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby1024 Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:No... What I meant was that your die pool would be your Quantum + 3 times your rating in Healing Circle. The number of successes on this roll (against difficulty 7) is then used to determine the number of health levels that are healed. One of the things that really annoyed me about the old Healing power was that it's power was fixed. If you had 3 in Healing, you healed 6 Bashing or 3 Lethal. No more, no less. I really like rolling the dice and watching luck play a role in the game.OK. Aberrant uses a slightly different version of the Storyteller system. In particular, the difficulty number does not change. Ever. The difficulty number is always 7. Full Stop.Difficulty in Aberrant is measured by number of successes, and in Aberrant is indicated by "+X" where X = number of additional successes required for marginal success.Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:Other issues that I have are the one I already mentioned about the fact that Healing heals a fixed amount of damage, not a variable amount, and that I really believe that the Healing power currently in use is horribly underpowered. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but... yea... It can be used once per scene, it has a relatively high quantumpoint cost for what it does...Aberrant Combat is highly lethal, so Healing Powers tend to be deterministic rather than random. As a general rule, this is the same in most Storyteller games, actually - Vampire and Werewolf both have deterministic healing systems, as does Adventure!, as does Wraith.Healing is only used once per person per scene because it's meant to be the power that is used on others - Regeneration is the Combat Self-Healing ability of choice for Novas. Healing is not generally supposed to be for extended use. If a character needs healing on the go in combat, they certainly shouldn't be relying on Combat Healers.As for it's cost... I'm not entirely sure about that. In terms of QP, it's actually not so bad - like Regeneration, 1QP/HL. As for NP cost - I do have similar issues, personally. Healing is an incredibly potent power, it's true, but perhaps the Quantum Minimum should be reduced a little.Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:Ok... I don't know what this is... Is this in the Player's Handbook (the Reddish book)? If so, I don't have it, and I wasn't looking forward to ordering another book online and waiting for it to get to me. =PThat would be it, most likely. When you get the money, I do recommend you get it, although it's not essential.Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:The other thing I forgot to mention about AoE Healing... I planned to make it that everything (hostile and friendly) in the area was healed. So it's really not a combat healing spell in it's AoE incarnation.I got that - But that in itself is not inherantly weakening in the power.Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:I'm almost curious as to whether people have modified the level or quantum requirement of healing in their in-house rules.Not really, although I've never had a Healer in my group. As I said above, If it came up, I might consider reducing the Quantum Minimum, but I'd probably keep the Level as it is - It's quite potent on it's own, a little too potent to be Level 2.Quote:Originally posted by arxmage:I'm really looking forward to playing a Combat Medic type of character, but I play with some people who have some munchkin tendencies, so a character built around a weak skill isn't going to go over particularly well.Thank you for your responses, and please keep letting me know what you think! One thing to consider: As of the Player's Guide, there is no longer a restriction on applying Extras to Level 3 Powers. Placing the Area Extra on Healing gives much the same effects as what you've described. A Level 4 Power is 7NP per dot at Character Generation, 4NP if bought Tainted. Steep, yeah, but could be considered worth it. Also, Stepping a L3 power to L4 with an extra won't boost up the QP cost. At that cost, it wouldn't be particularly difficult to convince your ST to alter the once per scene restriction if you feel it's essential.I'm incredibly wary of Randomised Healing Powers, for the sole reason that Random Healing has an unfortunate tendency to let down the player when they really need it. In Aberrant, especially in a Combat-Oriented game, that sort of thing can mean you spending the session writing a new character. Aberrant combat is Horrifically Lethal, and if the fight isn't over within 3-5 turns, something's very, very wrong.Combat Healer is a fun role to play, Healing can be tinkered with if you feel that the bang:buck ratio isn't to your satisfaction, but remember that Combat tends to happen so fast that Healing will usually happen after the combat, not during it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arxmage Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Healing in Werewolf was Deterministic? No... Mother's Touch called for an Intelligence+Medicine roll against a difficulty of the injured Garou's Rage, and if it were used on something without a Rage rating, you used either difficulty 6 or their Willpower, I don't remember. Maybe this is for an old version of Werewolf, but I played several healers in that system and loved them. That's one of my main motivators for trying to play one in the Aberrant system.I will probably look into purchasing the Player's Handbook in the near future to see if I can get these desired results out of the current Healing power.Thanks again for the comments. They are definitely appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 I thought all Werewolf's could regen one level per round?And where healing is strong is out of combat. If the party has *One* healer then everyone is always brought up to their max health between fights. It does have some (limited) in combat potential, but WW Abby combat is quick and brutal. Even fights between bricks seldom last more than 4 rounds and with non-bricks it normally lasts only 2.Healing also has some social implications. You can heal AGG damage. That implies that ANYTHING can be healed. With this we have moved from the realm of medicine and moved into miracles.With this power you can earn serious bucks, or you can start your own cult.True, unlike armor and forcefield, every character doesn't benifit from just having healing tacked on to the character. But healing is a strong power if used correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arxmage Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 Werewolves do regenerate one health level (non-aggravated) per round, but there is also the Children of Gaia/Theurge gift 'Mother's Touch' which heals as I stated above.I like the social side of healing that you pointed out... That's nice. In the group I play with, I find that combats tend to last longer than you guys are talking... maybe it's a playstyle of the gamers I'm with, maybe it's our STs way of responding to all our munchkins. Another reason I want to be able to bust the crazy heals is that I feel horrible when baselines die on account of stupid actions on the part of my team or other teams, so I'm cool with running around trying to fix things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphere Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Mastered Healing at Q6? Maybe the ability to resurrect the dead would be something to think about? With the proviso that you can't resurrect people who died from Agg damage, or who died more than (Quantum + Power) days ago.I remember a healer we had in a supers rpg once. The guy could basically heal people of practically any damage they'd recieved. But they couldn't make any aggressive actions towards him for a span of time proportional to the ammount of damage he'd healed. I do think the Heal power is a bit rubbish for a Level 3 power. I'm thinking of reducing it to a Level 2 in my game, all of my Players have Regenerate anyway. At Level 3 the power should at least allow the Player to attempt to heal as often as they like (unless they botch, perhaps?). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kincaid Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Sphere sure the *combat* applications of Healing are not all that ... but the societal implications are huge.Level 3 is fine IMO ... however I could see an agrgument for tweaking the power a bit to let it heal more at one time.What comes to mind is [Quantum] + [Healing] levels of health restored or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 The problem with Making Healing a level 2 is then you can slap "Reduced Q Cost" on it.Now you can heal one level of damage on anyone forever. And since there is no roll you have no risk of taint either.Now our healer can heal 10's of thousands of people a day, litterally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kincaid Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 Wouldn't they still have to pay 1 quantum per use with just one level of 'Reduced Q Cost?'With two levels it would be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 One level of reduced cost makes all 1q uses, 0q. You round down.Healing charges 1q per health level.So you could heal 1 level of bashing or lethal for no cost.With 2 levels of reduced q, if you had 5 dots of Healing and used them all, it would go 5=>2=>1 or 1q. But any use 3 or less would be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Kincaid Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Well your post made me go back & re-read the book. I disagree with your last post & my first one now.Reduced Quantum makes the power cost "half as much" unless it is on a level 1 power.Half of one rounded up is still 1.Now if you round down.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 If you just re-read the book, what part of "...(round in favor of the character)..."[Core book, page 232] wasn't clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby1024 Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 To be honest, in the case of Healing, I'd rule in favour of shifting the QP-cost not to 0QP/1HL, but 1QP/2HL. This is, technically, half Quantum Cost, and is far more palatable to most people. It's half as much per use, rather than reducing the standard rate.At any rate, As I pointed out above, as of the Player's Guide, Level 3 powers can have extras applied to them anyway. Assuming you are using this rule in your game, Whether it's L3 or L2 makes no difference in this manner. As I've stated, I'm more comfortable with keeping the power at L3 and reducing the Quantum Minimum to 3 (I see Healing as somewhat similar to Warp in utility - one incredibly powerful trick, no parameters. As such, same cost). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sphere Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Good point, way back there Dr Troll. To be honest the ramifications of the Heal power on baseline society hadn't really struck me. It's unlikely any of my Players'll be getting it in the near future anyway. It's way down their Christmas lists alongside Homonculous.Makes sense in that respect to keep Heal as an L3 power. Novas can effect wonderful healing processes within their own bodies, but maybe find it harder to influence the quantum template of others in that way, without causing out of control cancers and the like. I mean look at the Q6 Bio-Manipulation power in Phase 1 for evidence of needing to be pretty mighty to mess around with biological systems in a creative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David 'Dr. Troll' Smith Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Quote:Originally posted by Kirby1024: To be honest, in the case of Healing, I'd rule in favour of shifting the QP-cost not to 0QP/1HL, but 1QP/2HL. This is, technically, half Quantum Cost, and is far more palatable to most people. It's half as much per use, rather than reducing the standard rate.??? Reducing the total cost was what I was suggesting. The rate is 1q per health level healed. Level affects the total number of health levels you can heal per scene (1L or 2B per dot).That means that, with one level of reduced q cost, healing one level of damage is free.This in turn means you can heal one level on everyone in a hospital by just lineing them up. And after that scene you can repeat the trick until everyone has all their health back.Quote:Originally posted by Kirby1024:...I'm more comfortable with keeping the power at L3 and reducing the Quantum Minimum to 3. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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