Score One for Equality!

[Cryostorm]

I love Canada! Finally, after years of fighting, same sex marriages are legal in Ontario and soon to be all over Canada. It's about damn time!

I know this probably doesn't mean much to the rest of you but it's a big thing for me. Just had to say that somewhere.

[Matt]

It's good to hear that the canucks are ahead of the back woods U.S. I'm just happy that they overturned the anti-same sex laws here.

[Cryostorm]

Yeah, I heard that more than a few couples from the States came up to Toronto for Pride this weekend just to get married. That's too cool.

[Sakurako Hino]

The problem will be when they come back, and try to claim their Canadian marriage in the US. Of course, this could force the issue into the spotlight, where it needs to be.

Let's just say I'm not that backwater as some others. I choose to be against the mainstream to be away from the bible-thumpers and racists. It gets on my nerves when they say I'm not being who I should be.

I'm not Gay or anything remotely close to it, but I don't see them any different than I. I guess sympathizing with them they don't like. Screw 'em.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sakurako 'Endeavor' Hino:

I'm not Gay or anything remotely close to it,

What, you reproduce asexually like bacteria? Straight and Gay are not such worlds apart, but I get your meaning.

Unfortunately, I can see our beloved Congress taking up all of six seconds to deciding that we don't have to recognize marriages from outside our borders if they do not conform to 'what is right.' We already do so in those cases where an immigrant lives in a polygymous relationship.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Sakurako 'Endeavor' Hino:...this could force the issue into the spotlight, where it needs to be...

The problem with a culture war (or any war for that matter) is that your side might not win.
Gradual is slow, but it is also low risk.

[Sakurako Hino]

Yes, David, but the issue has been kept under the table for too long in my opinion. Ignored confortably by those too scared by political consequence to duel with the dragon of Homosexuality. It has to be dealt with one way or another, just as race has been, and still is dealt with today. It has to be looked at, confronted or understood, and a decision made. this is the 21st century. If mankind cannot stand together, it will sure as well be extinct. Look at the state of the world today. Ignorance, hatred and sheer stupidity has held us back in several different arenas. Scientifically, Politically, and Socially. America has always been the leader on these fronts, but when it comes to Homosexuality, we've been stuck in the dark ages. It's time for a change, and it needs to happen NOW, before the rest of the world leaves us behind.

There has to be a common consensus among humanity. With the way information spreads across the world in virtually seconds, we have to adapt, and understand, our world.

[Kirby1024]

Of course, naturally, the big problem I see here is Future Shock - Those who find comfort in How Things Were/Are are starting to see that What Things Will Be Like are going to be different.

And Different will always be dangerous, no matter what tack you use to encounter it.

Yes, this issue definitely needs to be thrown into the open. Damn straight it's about time. My question is that now that it has been thrown into the open, exactly what lengths will conservatives go to maintain status quo?

Conservatives, oddly, don't care about whether they're wrong, as long as what's happening is in their best interests (actually, this isn't restricted to the conservative end of the spectrum - it's exactly the same for the liberal side, but for them, their best interests is change). If the conservative politicians truly believe that allowing gay marriage is not in their best interests (either in practical or ideological terms) then they will do whatever they can to stop it.

Sad, really. Sometimes knowing the psychology behind this stuff gets damn depressing, ya know? Sometimes I firmly believe that unless Aliens invade the earth, it's always going to be us vs them (actually, it'll still be us vs them in that case, just them will be the Aliens, and not humans...)

[Sakurako Hino]

Here's how I see myself, so you know where I'm coming from.

I call myself a practicalist. What makes sense, and WORKS, I'm all for. I'm also a conservative, in the sense that the federal government should be curtailed to it's bare bones minimum, as perscribed in the constitution. Thus reducing the federal tax burden on the people, and improving lives across the board. Quite frankly, issues like this should not be handled federally, but by the states, where it WILL be a greater issue. But, I see that in order to show the world and our people that we have gone beyond pety differences, we MUST allow Homosexual marrages.

Let me put it to you like this, I've heard arguements that most STDs are spread by Gays. Wouldn't marriage allow for established couples, to stay monogamus(sp?)? Thus curtailing or even halting such spreading of disease?

Second, by bringing this facet of society out of the shadows into the light of day, can't we somehow in a way shave off the shame that had been placed on this part of our population? And by doing such things, reduce psychotic behaviors like murder, suicide, or sexual predation?

Destroying the shame will help those who are Gay come out far earlier, and end the repression that destroys the psyches of Gay youth daily.

Now you see my points a little clearer?

Let's just say It's a personal issue I had with a friend in this type of situation that makes me feel so strongly about it.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Kirby1024:
Of course, naturally, the big problem I see here is Future Shock - Those who find comfort in How Things Were/Are are starting to see that What Things Will Be Like are going to be different.

And Different will always be dangerous, no matter what tack you use to encounter it.

...Conservatives, oddly, don't care about whether they're wrong, as long as what's happening is in their best interests (actually, this isn't restricted to the conservative end of the spectrum - it's exactly the same for the liberal side, but for them, their best interests is change).

Careful there, School and welfare reform will (have) come from the conservatives, with the liberals dragging their feet. I suspect that Conservatives do care if they are wrong, they just don't think that they are (any more than the liberals saw their actions on welfare as counter productive and self serving).

Where we get into hypocrisy is when a politician knows that a particular stance is wrong, but takes it anyway because of his support groups. To a degree, this is part of his job (he is after all there to represent his constituents). But it still grates seeing Democrats who are in favor of school reform kowtow to the teacher's unions and/or Republican's with gay relatives kowtow to the extreme religious right.

[Walker]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kirby1024:
Of course, naturally, the big problem I see here is Future Shock - Those who find comfort in How Things Were/Are are starting to see that What Things Will Be Like are going to be different.

... If the conservative politicians truly believe that allowing gay marriage is not in their best interests (either in practical or ideological terms) then they will do whatever they can to stop it.

Sad, really. Sometimes knowing the psychology behind this stuff gets damn depressing, ya know? Sometimes I firmly believe that unless Aliens invade the earth, it's always going to be us vs them (actually, it'll still be us vs them in that case, just them will be the Aliens, and not humans...)

I see it more as Now Shock, people are confused and shocked by the changes that have already taken place and seek comfort in the old established structures or simply give up trying to understand what's going on around them.

When ever change and new ideas get thought up you can bet your life that there is some one with a vested interest that wants to shoot it down. Conservative thought isn't all bad though, my own views towards the environment are very conservative, being in real life as much as a tree hugging hippy as Walker.

I know what you mean, when you have a good understanding of human nature it sure can depress the hell out of you. I come at it from a socio-biology point of view, nature and evolution has 'built' into us a tribal nature. We co-operate with those in our group and are usually hostile towards those we perceive as oustside. If you've watched chimps and baboons defend their 'tribe' against others of the same species then you've pretty much seen human politics/nationalism/groupism in action, it's just a question of scale. If agression helps spread genes then it will spread and become the evolutionary stable strategy.

At least if you understand it you can choose to modify/ignore that part of your nature/psychology and think something like, we're sharing the same planet that makes us all one group. We can't rely on aliens to come along and do that for us though. My personal hope is that as communications technology becomes better, faster and cheaper people will communicate much more with other people and everyone will come to see that they're not so different from everyone else. That what we have in common is more important than our differences blah, blah, blah, etc, etc.