opnet [OpNet] Charr I am dead serious.

[Wakinyan]

What would it exactly take for you to respect me?

I am not looking for it but I am curious. All you ever do is torment people here and push my buttons. What do you hope to gain? Take the time out of your busy schedule and for once try to explain what I am not getting.

Once you run into enough dead ends you have to look for an alternative route even if you don't like it.

[Charr]

What a fucking wuss.

Not because you finally pulled you head out of whatever serves as an anus in that sack of kitty fur to ask a real question. That's the most intelligent thought you ever had in a long series of existential "Oh woe is me, the universe is unfair" self tormenting inner monologue bullshit. Nope. You're a wuss because you still have to pretend to be uninterested like some monkey schoolboy mooning over the untouchable quim and telling himself its all about true love.

I'm a sure thing, baby. As long as you don't mind leaving the mind games behind to get down and dirty.

Where do you think this rage comes from, Feather Weight? And spare me the delusions fed in honor of circle of life fairy tales from Codex and Neil. She's got a long history of 'overlooking' the pieces she doesn't like to see and Neil was destined to suck at medicine until the node popped and spared him that humiliation. Neither one of them see you when they spout out, its all about them and their now quantum fueled fantasies. Come on, you didn't really think Codex got wings because she peeped in on you. And you don't believe Neil understands taint or he'd see what's really happening inside you.

You know where that rage comes from, bitch. You know it and you hide from it like it was a lion hunting your ass. That 'beast' you bitch about like it was living in Mongolia has been with you for a long time and when the node headache came you said, "Till death do us part." Didn't anybody ever warn you about relationships?

So much grandpa's wisdom. Heh.

This is you homie and you aren't a compromise kind of nova so neither is the 'beast'. Take no prisoners, right? You don't have forever to wring your hands and weep those precious little monkey tears. You aren't a patient nova and this is one silver bullet you won't dodge forever. You leave the cage unlocked every chance you can get away with, so you either figure it out and make peace with what you are or it takes you down for the long count. You love it too dearly to let it lose that fight.

You poor stupid bastard. Its not about killing zips or protecting them or anything in between. That's monkey logic. Haven't you figured it yet? You can't chain the beast because its part of you. And you can't give into it even if you wanted to because it only a part of you.

This is why you could never take me or anyone like me. You have no focus, no desire that's not in conflict with another desire, and no concept of what you are. This is why they'll end up taking Ol' Yeller behind the shed one last time. Because Ol' Yeller is so goddamn afraid to live that he'd rather die.

Suicide on your own fucking time, Toto.

[Wakinyan]

I knew you had something to tell me Charr. When you pulled aside the insults for a moment to actually tell me what it was I found it worth listening too.

Thank you.

[Neil Preston]

Charr, you gutless coward, don't you ever think you can talk about who I am or what I'm about, much less how I see the world. You haven't a clue, shit-for-brains.

I don't think you are such a fuck because you are a taint-ridden monster, because I don't blame the taint. I blame the pathetic little human inside for the crap you pull, and the crusade you think you are on. There is nothing inherently nova-, or taint-related, about it.

You are a pathetic shit, probably always have been, and probably always will be. Becoming a nova only fuelled the darkness that was already inside you.

Taint doesn't change who a nova is, it is what we are. Taint isn't a disease, or a bi-product, it is part of our evolution. It is an expression of who we are, as much as any power we manifest.

I dont' think taint sucks, I think its beautiful, facinating, and dreadfully misunderstood.

[Charr]

Oh there's insults in there, Feather Weight. That's just never all there is. The clueless stick with their little wounds of pride so they never have to think or change. Speaking of;

Sure Neil, that's why I had to explain it to Totem while you jerked him off with friendship. You're still sitting in the dark. Not that you couldn't understand it but the same reasons you sucked at medicine are working against you here. Stick with pretending to be a doctor and remember; you could do worse. Even Daddy's not only an asshole with a node. But Psycho Mommy was Psycho Mommy.

[ronin]

Oh, for fuck's sake, Totem. I've been telling you that for weeks. If I'd known I had to motherfuck you like a petulant child to get you to listen, I gladly would have.

Next time I have advice for you, I'll know better than to bother with 'carrot' and move right on to 'stick'.

[Wakinyan]

I don't want to be led. I want my options simply placed out in front of me. I don't need vaguery and shell games.

[Blue Cherry]

Sometimes what is wise and what is insane are all in interoperating the one hears and sees. What are the words of a raving madman to one is a spark of divine to another. And what is true wisdom to the masses could be little more than a joke to a few.

That being said, Totem, you are what you are. Charr is what he is. He has never seen you, and frankly doesn't know you, nor your problem. You should not listen to his words as gossypol at least until you know him. He may be right, but can you risk him being wrong?

[Wakinyan]

Do not assume just because I listened to what he has said I take it as gospel. He has been spouting insults for so long I just wanted him to try just one time to say what he had to say without the baggage that he himself carries with him.

He has said what he has said.

I will make my own choice when it comes. In the end I will survive and if I do not. I will not go quietly into the night.

There is one thing I am waking up to. Wether it rolls from from charr or ronin or from the eyes that see me as I will be. I am the beast and I am more than the beast.

Thank you all for at least that much.

[Charr]

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin:
Next time I have advice for you, I'll know better than to bother with 'carrot' and move right on to 'stick'.

Now this is what I've been saying all along.

How these morons feel is so much more important than reality. And being the lucky recipients of modern toilet training by chimps they got no problem with wailing how they its not really their faults. Shit, it took Totem just shy of fucking forever to get his head far enough out of his ass to consider that just maybe monkey logic isn't going to cut it.

S'why I don't bother with their dick measuring contests. They don't listen anyway until it becomes more painful to stay ignorant.

Quote:

Originally posted by Totem:
Do not assume just because I listened to what he has said I take it as gospel.

Oh quite acting acting like a virgin date, Feather Weight. I've been carrying your conflicted ass for months until you could get to the point of hearing what's being said to you.

We went at the speed you could handle. If you wanted it quicker, all you had to do was stop being such a whiney knuckle head chimp with wings and wake up.

Quote:

Originally posted by Totem:
I am the beast and I am more than the beast.

Hallalujeah! About fucking time.

You'll probably still wind up behind the shed with Ol' Yeller but at least now you got an even chance.

Don't ask for more.

[ronin]

Quote:

Unless you find somewhere to go that you can reckon your bestial nature with the world around you, it is likely you will eventually be put down.

You are losing even your self-restraint, and that is what poses the danger to you.

You're a beast. To fight that is to fight your nature.

Hone your instincts sharper than your claws and build yourself into a fortress of vascular steel. You'll stand the best chance of survival that way.

Quite right, Totem. I'm sorry I couldn't have made my assertions simpler for you. Statements like those are so complicated and enigmatic, so multilayered, such a series of cryptic wheels-within-wheels that not even a zen-practicing sphinx could have puzzled them out. No more polysyllables for you, I promise.

Or maybe it's just that digesting facts that ugly is more difficult when they're coming from someone you haven't yet convinced yourself you could defeat if it came down to it.

You're right, Charr. You can't present facts to people as you would open a book and show them the pages. Clearly, people these days must be bludgeoned bloody with the corners and forced to read as the slip into unconsciousness.

Fascinating. I've lived so long, and I'm still learning.

[Wakinyan]

Ronin I appreciate what wisdom you have imparted. It is in the end of the most likely things I can do. Surviving isnt the only thing I am looking for. Looking for policies to live my life by is something I want. Being strong and pulling through is one but their are many other things as well.

[Neil Preston]

Charr and ronin, maybe if you start your conversations without talking down to your audience, more of us would understand.

Congrats. The two of you have learned to kill people and destroy shit. That puts you right up there with mankind ... 400,000 years ago.

Maybe you think you are speaking in the only language mankind can understand, but it is more a case of this is the only kind of response you can relate to. If the sum total of your contribution to the One Race is to kill, perhaps we would all be better off if you seperated yourself from society totally.

Beyond satisfying your own desires of self-satisfaction, what good are you doing the rest of us?

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Neil Preston:
Beyond satisfying your own desires of self-satisfaction, what good are you doing the rest of us?

I thought your father put it rather well. Ashnod => ... => Charr.

It is a pity to see a nova become the worst he can be rather than the best. But it is still an abject lesson in where certain paths lead.

[Ashnod]

Fair enough.

Dr. Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy.

If we are going to play games of unreasonable comparison, I shall throw my hand in as well. My little equation is no more inaccurate by Preston's logic than his is.

I can show my work, doing the math the long way, if you'd prefer.

[Neil Preston]

First off, a clarification: I'm NOT my Father.

I don't believe that Ashnod equals anyone but Ashnod, nor do I hold to Dad's ideological linkage. We see the world differently.

I am afraid that the Teragen will be bogged down ideology, mostly by those who cling to baseline concepts.

Am I alone in feeling that the message of Teras is being lost in a wave of blood and anger?

Strangely enough, I find that actually joining the teragen would limit my freedom and growth, not aid in it.

Is this what happens when an idea stops being ain philospophy and becomes a political movement?

[Wakinyan]

The only common denominator either Charr and Ashnod have in common is personal freedom. Something which I would like to covet for myself..

[Neil Preston]

Totem, we are all born free. Only you can give that freedom up and only you can keep it safe.

{{or so my dad taught me. }}

[Charr]

Not the only one, Totem. Not even the most important one. As a place to start its good enough.

[ronin]

Neil.

Choose your words carefully, Preston the Younger. You are making assertions on subjects you know very little about. You're welcome to think I'm a killer or a monster or whatever you please, and frankly, I don't give a damn. The approval of an infantile nova who's understanding is limited by his minute experience is not so important to me that I will put my work into jeopardy by placating you with the explanations you seek.

If you really want to know what good I've done, go and ask your poppa. I'm sure he'd be glad to fill you in on the lurid details. I hope you have a strong stomach.

Troll.

You're pathetic. Condemning those of us who can use our ability to destroy for positive ends because you're incapable of keeping your beast on a short leash is pretty fucking cowardly. Just admit you don't have the chops to do anything other than sit in an ivory laboratory and snipe at those of us who can hold our shit in the bush.

Totem.

I just hope you manage to see it through to the end, and I should like to impart to you what wisdom I can to equip you in that endeavor. Good luck.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

ronin: Just admit you don't have the chops to do anything other than sit in an ivory laboratory and snipe at those of us who can hold our shit in the bush.

Obviously I haven't done enough XWF matches recently.

And "those of us"? That's an interesting phrase from a non-Terat.

ronin: Condemning those of us who can use our ability to destroy for positive ends because you're incapable of keeping your beast on a short leash is pretty fucking cowardly.

And what would these "positive ends" be?

As for cowardly, I've been willing to look my problems in the eye... and then do something about it.

Ashnod: Dr. Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy. ... My little equation is no more inaccurate by Preston's logic than his is.

The irony of that statement is I've killed fewer people (baselines and novas) since joining the Project. I would think this would be considered an improvement.

Also, you left out the arrows. The point isn't that you ARE Charr (you aren't), the issue is your philosophical platform creates people like him and then does nothing to deal with them after that.

[Singularity]

Totem, everyone has the inalienable right of personal freedom. Certain actions against others may bring that freedom into jepordy for a peroid of time, but it is something we all start with when we are born. You do not need to earn it or join some group to get it. It is yours by right.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Preston:
Ashnod = Prodigy = Charr

I did not leave the arrows out, Dr. Smith. You added them for your own embellishment. Preston's comparison equated the three, you are stating one leads to the other.

Which of these issues do you want address? The equality of Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy, or shall I add arrows to it and tell you why the logic still works?

[Neil Preston]

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin:
Neil.

Choose your words carefully, Preston the Younger. You are making assertions on subjects you know very little about. You're welcome to think I'm a killer or a monster or whatever you please, and frankly, I don't give a damn. The approval of an infantile nova who's understanding is limited by his minute experience is not so important to me that I will put my work into jeopardy by placating you with the explanations you seek.

ronin, I don't know you, or claim to know you. Nor, do I make any claims to being anything but a young nova who is still trying to figure out what we are all about. I have learned stuff that works for me, and I pass it on. I have been told things by other novas who want to share their lessons about the nova experience, and I pass that on as well.
If all you are going to tell me is "I can't explain it to because it is a secret", then why bother speaking at all?

Quote:

Originally posted by ronin:

If you really want to know what good I've done, go and ask your poppa. I'm sure he'd be glad to fill you in on the lurid details. I hope you have a strong stomach.

Do you know what my father has told me about you?
"Ronin is a dangerous nova."
That's it. He lets me form my own opinions, so you must be making assumptions about things things I haven't been told.

I believe in second chances, ronin. I believe that what transpired in your life before we met to by your business, not mine.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod:I did not leave the arrows out, Dr. Smith. You added them for your own embellishment. Preston's comparison equated the three, you are stating one leads to the other.

True enough, but then he *should* have had arrows.

Quote:

Ashnod:Which of these issues do you want address? The equality of Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy, or shall I add arrows to it and tell you why the logic still works?

The arrows (I like arrows, it implies a process).

And I'll note that you are stressing my sins rather than claiming (Ashnod => ... => Charr) doesn't work. BTW, I agree with you, Ashnod = Charr is an unreasonable comparison. Or at least, to the best of my knowledge that is the case.

[Stephanie 'Holocaust' Hu Zhan]

This is a thread full of people who scare me immensely.

[Liam Stewart: TAG]

No joke!

A little ego goes a long way in the best of circumstances but this whole thread is a long way from being the best of circumstances.

[Access]

This thread has seemed to dwindle into a pissing match. Half the people here could finish me off no problem as well. I just avoid the conflicts all together.

[Matryoshka]

Zhan, look out to the world.Look at those who are really doing things that should scare you. Then look back into this thread. I can say this Zhan, no one who posts here is a truly big threat to you. You are not in danger of being harmed or targeted by anyone here.

I do think your name is in bad taste,but that is all I will say on that topic.

[Wakinyan]

Half the time all the posts made on here are pissing matches.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:

Quote:

Ashnod:Which of these issues do you want address? The equality of Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy, or shall I add arrows to it and tell you why the logic still works?

The arrows (I like arrows, it implies a process).

And I'll note that you are stressing my sins rather than claiming (Ashnod => ... => Charr) doesn't work. BTW, I agree with you, Ashnod = Charr is an unreasonable comparison. Or at least, to the best of my knowledge that is the case.

As the original post by Preston did not have your arrows, Dr. Smith, that was the focus of the conversation, not your own ideas.

Coincidentally, Dr. Smith, I'd like to you explain why you believe Ashnod -> Prodigy -> Charr works as a process before I continue. I can see you crafting arguments for Ashnod -> Charr, but I'm curious how you see Prodigy as the part of the process between us.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod:Dr. Smith, I'd like to you explain why you believe Ashnod -> Prodigy -> Charr works as a process before I continue. I can see you crafting arguments for Ashnod -> Charr, but I'm curious how you see Prodigy as the part of the process between us.

You don't say things like, "go out and kill baselines for the hell of it / because they deserve it / to show off / to further distance yourselves from humanity." If you did it would be "Ashnod -> Charr". Instead you have attracted like minded individuals, and they have attracted or recruited others.

Prodigy is the stand in for the "generic" (I know, poor word) member of the Teragen. He is the typical (ditto) Terat who doesn't run around killing people just to show he can.

But get enough Prodigies together and one of them will take your philosophies to their logical extreme. Worse, now that Charr has done it without being punished (to my knowledge), the next Terat of his mind set will do the same or worse to make a name for himself.

And since the rest of the Teragen has refused to distance themselves from him and that mindset, you all get lumped together.

[Ashnod]

That logic is flawed.

Ashnod -> Charr by that logic.

The number of "like minded individuals" means nothing if you are stating that a single individual will take what I say to a "logical extreme." All that matters is a single nova with sufficient motivation. I could, by your definition, create a million Prodigy-style Terats and give birth to a single Charr.

There are non-Terats who will do that as assuredly as professed Terats.

Ergo, as a I said earlier, Troll = Utopia = Conspiracy, by the same flawed logic.

[Y.T.]

Ashnod, and what would you do if you found that a nova was killing other novas in the name of the Teras? What would you do if he was a "poser"? What would you do if he wasn't? What would you do if a mad woman claiming to be a terat went around purging your rank of all the "posers"? What would you do if she killed someone who did not think was a "poser"? What you would if she was a "poser" herself?

You claim that Troll is in a conspiracy, as Utopia is one. Troll is in his mind trying to help others, and for better or worse is taking actions to further that ideal. Teragen members seem to be trying to gain power and to go above all reproach. Utopia lives by the rules it set for others to live by. Ashnod, do you?

[Ashnod]

Y.T.,

Is there any reason you speak exactly like Signy Malory? Not even similarly, but exactly? Same syntax, same word usage, same tactic of questioning repeatedly? Do you honestly expect me to give your barrage of useless inquiries any more attention than I give hers? Do you ever read what I have to say or do you just leap to conclusions based on the surface of my words? Do you see that I said troll = conspiracy through flawed logic? If you did, why are now stating that I claim it to be fact? Do you misread everything? Does your mind work the same way a normal individual's does? Do you process information in little bits and pieces that are selectively chosen to mimic the appearance of coherency and thus give you the illusion of intelligence?

For someone who claims to feel nothing, why is it that your posts have several emotions laced throughout them? Do you fancy yourself a cold mirror to reflect the flaws of others? Do you not understand how readily flawed your own presentation is? Do realize that nothing you can say, like Signy Malory, has any interest to me? If you realize this, why do you respond to anything I post? Is it to try and bolster your own public image by creating the fallacy that I am not responding to you because I have no valid arguments to reply with? Are you hoping to take me down a peg by doing so, or are you hoping to move up a peg instead?

Questions questions questions , just like Signy Malory. Fascinating, isn't it? One wonders just how many parallels might exist here.

In any case, you've earned the same treatment that she and a very others remarkably similar to her currently enjoy. We will not be speaking again. If you respond to this at all, knowing full well that I will not be responding back, will that be for the benefit of your own delusional reputation, since no productive discourse will come of it?

Hmm...I think I like this question game you and Ms. Malory play. Perhaps I should find another target to sick it on.

Dr. Smith, please ignore the interruption and continue at your leisure.

[David 'Dr. Troll' Smith]

Quote:

Ashnod: The number of "like minded individuals" means nothing if you are stating that a single individual will take what I say to a "logical extreme."

No. Someone was going to be first. That person was Charr, and now there will be others. You planted the seed, after a time it was going to sprout thorns. The only question was what you were going to do about it. Personally I suggest cutting the thorns off or getting others to do it for you.

Quote:

Ashnod:All that matters is a single nova with sufficient motivation. I could, by your definition, create a million Prodigy-style Terats and give birth to a single Charr.

If only that were true. Now that Charr has made a name for himself, others will do the same. One way or another, Charr has made an example of himself.

Quote:

Ashnod:There are non-Terats who will do that as assuredly as professed Terats.

And does the Teragen support them? I suspect not. Because Charr claims he follows teras, ANYTHING he does is above reproach with his peers. Not even Totentanz can claim that.

[Y.T.]

Any reason you use the same tactics as Charr? I set up a premise, and then set up variables. The premise was to see if you approved or disapproved of murder. I know you do not care for baseline life, but I would assume you care about nova life. I simply asked if you cared about nova life, and under what grounds did you find it wrong to kill other novas. Can you think of anything a teragen member could do that is "Wrong"? If not, then why do you judge what others do?

As for emotions, correct me if I am wrong. But do you not yourself say a nova can do anything they want to do? Or is that another thing the tegagen has a monopoly in?

By the way, Exstacy, Dead weight, and Zoonned out are dead. I do not know if these were real trats or posers, but they are dead now. I guess they shouldn’t have been in a country that does not recognize that Novas have human rights.

[Wakinyan]

Let's not make Charr out to be Charles Manson of the Terat crowd. There are others who do things in the name of the Teragen that do not look good.

Geryon at least has a message but when he goes out and snaps a mayor in half or rampages through Washington DC destroying monuments and people what is that saying to baselines? Fear us; destroy us before we destroy you. I am not even going to get into what Epoch has done but as you can see Charr is just another head in the mass.

Hell even Baselines kill one another claiming it is for the Terat cause. Some loser puts on some spandex grabs an AK and mows down a Waffle House in the name of Mal. So what now, Should Orzaiz or Ashnod run out and stop them? The problem with an organization that allows freedom to enter is also its strength. Freedom let's anyone in but you have to accept that even those you don't want in can be otherwise you are being a hypocrite.

[Hugin]

Quote:

Originally posted by David 'Dr. Troll' Smith:
Because Charr claims he follows teras, ANYTHING he does is above reproach with his peers. Not even Totentanz can claim that.

Will you please stop being such a silly little shit? I mean really. I've already said at some length that I hold Charr's actions to be poorly thought out and something I wish he had not done. I reproached him. What I have not done is hunt him down and punish him. If that is what you're really after please have the sack to admit it.

[Wakinyan]

Is such a thing even allowed Prodigy? Terat setting upon Terat does not feel like a unified front. I admit I know little of how the loose structured organization works. I guess I would even have to ask would you even be so inclined to actually do something like that?