Aberrant RPG - Sonic booms

[Alex Green]

That q-bolt is ranged and affects *anything* in its radius.

As far as other Thunderclappy characters in the comics, most of the time the technique was used as a stall tactic, or to knock them away(or down). I don't remember it ever causing very much damage.

Very few characters in the comics have lots of mega-strength. For all his power, I'd give Spiderman M-Str 2. Thunderclap isn't something that works well at low levels.

Assume we use the erata (M-Str x5). At M-Str = 2, you are doing 10 dice. Normal soak rules apply, so that translates to 2 or so levels of bashing damage to the typical baseline police. Swat team, 1 or 2 levels. {Something else I'd do is reduce the damage away from the center.}

(Other than the Hulk and Superman, who from the comics has this enhancement anyway?)

[Ayre el KaBeer]

That q-bolt is ranged and affects *anything* in its radius.

Yep, everything except the Nova who just dropped it at his feet while being rushed from all sides.

[ProfPotts]

(Other than the Hulk and Superman, who from the comics has this enhancement anyway?)

Soloman Grundy, Doomsday...

Taking the Hulk as the classic example though - he does use Thunderclap (or something very like it) to KO, stun, or knock-back baselines. It's a nice alternative to punching them & turning them into paste (it's not like he's a big one for the pulling of punches ::wink ). With the errata Thunderclap, the Hulk's Mega-Strength of 5 (or more) would deal 25 dice of Bashing damage - as well as fling the average soldier (Might pool of 4) 42 meters. That same average soldier has a Bashing Soak of 3. He'd take 22 dice from the Thunderclap, & 18 dice more from the knock-back impact. That's an average of around 20 levels of Bashing - taking the average soldier 6 levels of damage past dead with Lethal damage! That applies to each & every soldier in a 50 meter radius. That's just not what happens in the comics - the Thunderclap effect doesn't pulp an army in one slap, it clears a bit of breathing space around the big green guy.

And I wouldn't call it "3 NP" if the Nova already has paid for a Mega-Stat of 5.

But it is 3 NP! As I pointed out before - it's not like the guy can't use his Mega-Strength 5 for anything else - it's just an additional perk, not a devastating new power that should be worth the 15 NP & Quantum minimum 4 needed to get to Mega-Strength 5.

Just a thought... Bashing QBolt/Immolate maxed to explode would be a far superior 'knockback' attack (albeit shorter ranged) and one level still only costs 3NP.

True, but that presumes a Max roll of two successes or more, costs far more than the Thunderclap's 1 QP, & also can't be used for anything else (unlike Mega-Strength).

Assume we use the erata (M-Str x5). At M-Str = 2, you are doing 10 dice. Normal soak rules apply, so that translates to 2 or so levels of bashing damage to the typical baseline police. Swat team, 1 or 2 levels.

But ten dice of Bashing damage is more than you'd take if an Olympic weightlifter (Strength 5) hit you as hard as he could with a baseball bat (+4 Bashing)! You really want Spiderman to be able to displace air hard enough to achieve that kind of an impact?!

[Ayre el KaBeer]

Back to the initial topic, I can't find anything to tell specifically the damaging effects of a sonic boom. There doesn't seem to be much interest in that field ::rolleyes .

So my new addition to the discussion is what speed would a sonic boom occur in water for purposes of hyper-swimming? I figure the easiest way to determine this is by figuring out basic water density (H2O only not include NaCl concentrations in sea water) per millilitre and the same for air (O2, CO2, N2). This will give us a basic idea as to how much faster a nova would have to go to trigger a sonic boom. We can assume the results of this will be catastrophic if the nova is moving towards a shoreline, bringingthe mother of all tidal waves behind him/her.

[ProfPotts]

Back to the initial topic, I can't find anything to tell specifically the damaging effects of a sonic boom. There doesn't seem to be much interest in that field .

I did talk to a bloke I work with who's ex-RAF & has been hit by a sonic boom (when a jet fighter accidentally went super-sonic over the base he was stationed at). He told me that he & the other witnesses to the event were deafened for a bit, & it felt like they were being pushed, but there wasn't enough force to even knock a man off his feet. On the other hand, there were loads of complaints from the nearby village because the sonic boom shattered the windows on several homes.

Now, this plane was only just super-sonic, & I'm not sure how close it actually was to the guys who got hit by the sonic boom (it was low-flying over their heads, but I don't know how low exactly); so being really close to sonic boom caused by a faster object could well do more damage. However, the evidence of the story would indicate to me that such damage is, in most cases, far from being in the 'fatal' range.

[Ayre el KaBeer]

(it was low-flying over their heads, but I don't know how low exactly);

As I understand it low-flying is anything lower than 500m off the ground.

[Gideon]

To add to the water question: you are talking about shock waves in the water, thise discussion would also have to deal with wakes. I don't have the math but you would definitely have to find the relation of depth versus speed, pressure would determine how much of a wake or shock wave your motion would cause. At the ocean bottom, a super that caused a minor shock wave at 15m depth would deffinitely create none. You also have to take into acount that water is an "imperfect conductor of sound" and its very nature distorts sound waves and naturally dispersses them (of course it is an imperfect conductor, not a bad conductor of sound). Mind you it does the same with shockwaves of pessure. (thats why dynamite works so well in pond fishing).

I would suggest focusing on the "wake" effect of superspeed before trying to tackle any "sonic" effects. this will be the closest proximation of the thunderclap effect, and it would not do damage so much as knockdown, or possitional displacement.

my two cents

[Ayre el KaBeer]

A sonic boom is caused when an object is travelling faster than the rate of it displacing its surrounding atomosphere. I'm assuming this happens in water aswell, it's just a thicker atmosphere, requireing greater speed to achieve sonic. It's the same reason you can achieve mach 1 easier at higher altitudes, in air, than at lower, there's less air to move through.

[Alex Green]

Taking the Hulk as the classic example though - he does use Thunderclap (or something very like it) to KO, stun, or knock-back baselines. It's a nice alternative to punching them & turning them into paste (it's not like he's a big one for the pulling of punches ::wink ). With the errata Thunderclap, the Hulk's Mega-Strength of 5 (or more) would deal 25 dice of Bashing damage - as well as fling the average soldier (Might pool of 4) 42 meters. That same average soldier has a Bashing Soak of 3. He'd take 22 dice from the Thunderclap, & 18 dice more from the knock-back impact. That's an average of around 20 levels of Bashing - taking the average soldier 6 levels of damage past dead with Lethal damage! That applies to each & every soldier in a 50 meter radius. That's just not what happens in the comics - the Thunderclap effect doesn't pulp an army in one slap, it clears a bit of breathing space around the big green guy.

Some Points:

1) (22+18)x0.4 would be 16 levels of damage. And I think we forgot to allow knockback to be soaked. That is still dead, but not 20.

2) If you are an unprotected baseline at ground zero for this thing, given by the Hulk, I have no problem with "dead".

3) I'm unsure Area Of Effect (AOE) attacks produce this level of knockback, and if we reduce it then this attack becomes something more like 8 levels of damage.

4) I also have no problem reducing the effect on the outer edge. This seems more like an explosion than a true AOE attack. Say, reducing it by one level of mega-strength for each 10m.

5) You said "...the Hulk...does use Thunderclap...to KO, stun, or knock-back baselines...". Question: Does 5 dice of damage do this?

But ten dice of Bashing damage is more than you'd take if an Olympic weightlifter (Strength 5) hit you as hard as he could with a baseball bat (+4 Bashing)! You really want Spiderman to be able to displace air hard enough to achieve that kind of an impact?!

Spiderman is a poor example because he doesn't have Thunderclap and it isn't in theme. I'll point out that I'd much rather take that 9 or 10 dice than his Str+Acc+Maneuver attack, which would be about 9[10]. With Spiderman's strength, people should go splat when he hits them (::cough:: Precision ::cough:.

[ProfPotts]

1) (22+18)x0.4 would be 16 levels of damage. And I think we forgot to allow knockback to be soaked. That is still dead, but not 20.

Fair enough - my maths sucks. ::wink

2) If you are an unprotected baseline at ground zero for this thing, given by the Hulk, I have no problem with "dead".

Even though that never happens in the comics? ::confused

3) I'm unsure Area Of Effect (AOE) attacks produce this level of knockback, and if we reduce it then this attack becomes something more like 8 levels of damage.

If an attack defined as "... a tremendous burst of sound & air pressure..." (p.157) doesn't do knockback, then nothing does!

4) I also have no problem reducing the effect on the outer edge. This seems more like an explosion than a true AOE attack. Say, reducing it by one level of mega-strength for each 10m.

That seems realistic, although the sheer area covered is one of the attack's really big advantages. A Quantum Bolt with the Area Extra would need to be Quantum 5 & power rating 5 to match the area covered by a Mega-Strength 5 Thunderclap.

5) You said "...the Hulk...does use Thunderclap...to KO, stun, or knock-back baselines...". Question: Does 5 dice of damage do this?

Answer - yes. Our example soldier has 3 Bashing Soak & 3 Stamina, & a Might Dice Pool of 4. He automatically gets knocked-back 2 meters, since the damage pool is 5 dice & his Might Pool is only 4 (p.249). The two Mega-Dice of Bashing damage over his Soak need to inflict 4 levels of Bashing to Daze the guy (p.249 again), which is fully possible if both roll successes. To KO the guy the attack needs to inflict 6 levels of Bashing damage (i.e. more than 2 over his Stamina in one shot - again found on p.249) which is, again, possible if both Mega-dice roll tens.

So, if 100 soldiers are within 50 meters of the Hulk's Mega-Strength 5 Thunderclap then all suffer knockback & are blown over, plus (on average) 15 are Dazed, & 1 is KO-d outright.

Doesn't that sound a bit more like the Hulk we know than having all 100 soldiers dead?

Spiderman is a poor example because he doesn't have Thunderclap and it isn't in theme.

Used as an example to follow the comment...

Very few characters in the comics have lots of mega-strength. For all his power, I'd give Spiderman M-Str 2. Thunderclap isn't something that works well at low levels.

[Nullifier]

I just thought I'd respond to the topic: Yes, sonic booms can happen underwater, with the precise velocity needed to create one determined by the average speed of sound in water. An interesting side note: It's also apparently possible to create a similar effect with light in water, as the speed of light in water is actually low enough to accelerate particles in the water faster than it, thereby creating visual booms, i.e. bright flashes of light. Just thought you'd like to know. ::lookaround