Aberrant RPG - So who hate Divis Mal?

[Winter_Heart]

Well, I don't for starter. Without being a worshipper, I think he's an interesting character.

Mind you I have never used him in any of my game, nor do I have any plan to do so. To me he's just there and the players would have to do something VERY drastic for him to actually do something. So I don't use him as a dimensional hammer of justice to punish my players.

They do know however that he is insanely powerful.

Anyway... it seems almost every WWGS game has it's big bad unkillable god(s).

Vampire - Caine + Antediluvians

Werewolf - Celestines + Triat

Mages - Archmages + Demons

Wraith - Malfeans

Changeling - I dunno

Hunter - Everything.

Aberrant - Divis Mal and even Pax.

Trinity - The Colony and the Proxies.

However Aberrant is the only game that actually give us insight into the power of the Ubber-Being. Unlike Caine, Mal isn't extremely powerful "because", he's extremely powerful because he has quantum 8.

I once saw an argument on Mal vs Caine in the WW forum. The main arguments of the Caine guy was "Caine can just make any discipline he wants, so he'll just make a discipline that affect Quantum". That had to be the dumbest thing I ever heard.

I always bugged me when WW has to make a totally new system or a "He always win because we say so!" thing in place... at least Mal is more powerful in an explanable way.

[Final_Knight]

I do. Hate him. Abhore him. Despise everything about the character.

Just to answer your question.

[Simbiot]

I dont....

Who needs Quantum of 8?

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-=¡WASSUP!=-

........ Warp!

[Sidious]

I think he's a waste of print. The character is an obvious extension of Blackwelders penis and the fact that it's the big gun of the game shows something (make your own allusions).

the character is torted as being groundbreaking for being gay. In this day and age THIS is ground breaking????

I find it a sad attempt to boost sales just by attempting to be controversial.

glad I killed his punk ass.

[This message has been edited by Sidious (edited 08-03-2001).]

[Kirby1024]

Hey, just out of interest, what where the "Suggested Abilities" he had out of WW2? I'm curious, and I doubt I'll have the money to purchase the book for a while...

[Gerald Haney]

Divas Mal is an interesting character and I find it interesting that so many people hate him because Blackwelder cares about him. What's so unusual about a writer or a developer finding some character that they care about and give a little extra attention to.

At least its written fairly clearly that Divas doesn't want to interferre in the world and therefore mess with the PC's. He wants the world to end up as he wants it and is just really hoping that it will. This allows the ST just to have him around for flavor or to throw a nice sense of urgency in whenver he actually shows up.

It's not like his presence is necessary to run even a very close to cannon game. My group did it for 8 months and he showed up once. No big deal at all.

He illustrates very nicely some of the Terat beliefs and thats about all he needs to do

[Sidious]

for the record I do not hate Mal because KB likes him.

I hate Mal because KB has made his little pet an extension of himself that is, in cannon, involitile to change/harm/consequences.

Need I remind people about the big fight in WW1? where the players are just standing around and can do nothing to effect the battle? Can't stop Pax or Mal. yeah it's real exciting to be told what happens and not be able to join/effect it in anyway shape or form.

second reason I hate mal.

the reasons for causing the mass erruptions in the first place. The "I'm a nova, I'm gay, no one understands me. boo-hoo. I know I'll make others like me so I'll have lots of friends and they'll all look up to me and accept me" in a nutshell.

Is it just me or is this possibly the DUMBEST reason you've ever heard of for empowering people? And he's supposed to have Mega-intelligence? yeah, right. must have got that AFTER his last Chrysalis{sp, it's late}.

He's poorly written and a trivial player at best (excatly what does he do anyway?). Better to retro fit the universe so he never existed in the first place.

[Winter_Heart]

That's my point exactly Sidious... the reason why the players can't touch them isn't because "We don't want you too!" but because it's hardly conceivable for a relatively new character to have any chance at a quantum 6-8 Nova who has fleshed out powers (unlike Gabriel Melchior).

We know how it works, and with Mastery 1 (let alone mastery 2) it's ridiculously easy to make yourself impervious to anything nova with Quantum under 6 can do.

As for him being an extension of KB... well, Mal was important in Trinity too. He's the most powerful, a prime threat and the proxies wet themselves in fear at the mere thought of him coming back.

So... How exactly is him being Quantum 8 in Aberrant not keeping up with this?

Aside from KB's claim that this game truly is about Divis Mal (yes, I agree, a bonehead comment which made me dislike KB, not Mal), what exact proof do you have that Mal is invicible? IMO, he's invicible because he has Quantum 8 and nobody is close to his level... yet. Not because the authors have an unkillable close on him.

As for his reason... I personally can understand that. You'd get lonely too if you lived long enough to see your loved ones die, see your children die and your grandchildren grow old and possible die too. You'd be lonely too if you were the only one who was "more then human". Nobody can share the joy, sorrow, responsabilities or feeling that you have because of that particular perspective of reality. And lastly, many young men kill themselves every years because they cannot cope with their own different sexuality. It's not something that is easy, especially not back in the days... He had the power to make other like him. So he did.

Who ever said that Divis Mal was groundbreaking for being gay? And as a matter of fact, if you remember the conversation that this little subject spawned on the Aberrant forum, it was definitly groundbreaking. Imagine, someone _important_ being gay in a RPG. Unthinkable! *sarcast*. Even in this day and age, it certainly hammered many people conception. We're not quite as open minded as we say we are.

[Malu Hekili]

So where does it say that Mal is responible for the mass eruptions? I can't believe I could have missed that.

[Guest]

I'm not sure but I believe the mass-eruption info is found somewhere in the Players Guide, but bear in mind my brain is wooly from the late hour. I do remember the reference in an Aberrant sourcebook, so it is canon. Or at least a powerful nova sparked the mass eruptions.

I have a love/hate relationship with the character of Mal. I like him as a part of the backdrop of the Aberrant world; he's part of the backstory that is taking place around the main story and characters (my players). On the other hand, I've come to groan inside every time the Aberrant team whip up a new band of uber-NPCs who _can't be defeated_. I know the sourcebooks have to be receptive to new players, but this has always set off my internal bullshit sensor. C'mon. Even if you only played once a week for two years, you're still going to end up with a character considerably more powerful than a generic starter. Quantum 4-6 at the very least, and if you have a genrous storyteller or a mature troupe of players you can create a powerhouse team that'd mop the floor with the usual self-centered and undisciplined nova rabble. Even Divis Mal, as powerful as he is, could be defeated by a team with synergy and a strong leader. Quantum 8 doesn't make him God.

I think one of the reasons Aberrant has stumbled in its direction was this impression of NPCs as ubercharacters. As to whether or not Mal was KB in red and gold. . .whatever. All writers are their characters to some extent, but even I found the depiction of Mal in recent books to be less mystery and more "But enough about me, what do _you_ think of me?"

-_^

-Defender.

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[SJEllis]

There is one thing that keeps the writers shy of letting your PCs kill Mal.

He has to turn up in 200 years or so for the Trinity canon, and should you wish to segue your Aberrant campaign into a Trinity game, then he needs to live. Therefore he has canon 'script immunity'!

Thats probably why the writers made him the most powerful nova in world, ever, and forever.

SJE

[Guest]

a few question about Divis Mal:

1-Is he Gay?

2-Can he make errupt normal people into Novas?

3-Dvis Mal hates humans like Magneto from X-Men?

4-What kind of paradise wants he for the Novas?

5-Why has he a Nazi-like filosophy about human? (I think that a Nova whit mega-inteligence would discover that even the more stupid and weak human has an inmense potencial inside -in the soul-)

[Winter_Heart]

Defender:

Somebody (DBuss on WWGS forum) once made Divis Mal with APG rules, going by the basis that he had high score + mastery 1 or 2 on every power in his 'short list' in WW1.

He had 186 Lethal Soak _BEFORE_ Forcefield, with Psychic/Sensory Shield with Mastery 1+ each! No it doesn't make him God, but you won't make me believe anything short of Quantum 6 can hurt him (and in most case, Quantum 6 isn't enough).

To Megatron:

1-Is he Gay?

Yes.

2-Can he make errupt normal people into Novas?

Yes

3-Dvis Mal hates humans like Magneto from X-Men?

No. He simply believe humans and novas should live in different society.

4-What kind of paradise wants he for the Novas?

Like I said, different society. A society for Novas, by Novas. I.e. With a nova governement, nova entertainement, nova made stuff, nova social movement, nova philosophies, etc. Mal doesn't want humanity to disapear, he just want it to leave his 'people' alone.

5-Why has he a Nazi-like filosophy about human?

He doesn't want to put humans in concentration camps... he just believes Nova are a different specie and a superior one. Many people like to say "Nova are still human" but even then there is no denying they are superior and that's where the real problem is.

[The Ranger]

Eh? Mal is mentioned in Trinity but he does not appear, he only has to live till the exodus and even then can easily be replaced by any number of novas...could be the players finally killed him?

[Winter_Heart]

If you don't care about Canon they could kill him in 2010 you know.

It's your game, nothing wrong with it... I personally think tho, that you're wasting a great plot device if you do so.

There's also the king of the hill syndrome kicking in... Everybody wants to be the biggest fish in the fish tank and it grate some people's ego that an NPC is so far above them. I can't help but to feel that's a bit childish.

[Guest]

Maybe, someone can kill Divis Mal...

If you think that many of the saint (and Jesus) were novas, in the Aeon Universe can be a kind of Antediluvian who can kick his ass.

[Eddie Cyclone]

Heh, in the game I was in the storyteller liked to take creative liberties with the storyline. He made it so that Divis Mal WAS Caine, and that the Mark of Caine was being a Nova. Yeek.

[Guest]

Actually I like Dr. Primoris in Adventue - but in aberrant he seems less likable.

[Elizabeth Rayne]

If they were really trying to shock people they should probably have made him Bi. Even that's pretty mild for nowadays but more people are still shocked by it than by simple homosexuality.

Actually I do quite like Mal. I probably wouldn't use him except as background but there's nothing wrong with the character. Okay he's excessively powerful but consider how old he is. It would be wrong not to be.

Oh and on the subject of uber-powerful characters in other games they did kill off one of the antediluvians didn't they. Admittedly it was drastic and had dire consequences but they can be killed. Sure a group of player characters couldn't do it but that's a different thing.

[Guest]

Oh, well. I don't hate him. He makes somewhat of an interesting character.

Of course, I say this because I think he's interesting mostly in a "fairly unique but still clearly assholish villain" way. The first year-and-a-half aberrant game I played in concluded with one PC using an ultra-powerful artifact firearm in his possession to shoot Mal, killing him instantly -- thus stopping his evil plan to reshape earth in his own image, casualties be damned.

[Guest]

I like Mal. As a concept throughout the three games. But here's how I feel about him in Aberrant.

1. Way too powerful. Instead empowering ST's with ways to keep Divis alive until Trinity (unless the don't want to) they fall into the WoD trap of making him uberpowerful to keep him alive. And in doing so dampens my enthusiasm for him. Don't get me wrong, I like to have a few "supermen" in the game world but there are limits.

2. I agree that Mal's sexual orientation is not really important, though I feel that WW truly did it for "shock value" rather than a thought out concept. Adventure! cleared that one up nice, though and made Divis a better fleshed out person. And for the record, Mal is bisexual rather than homosexual...one of the sourcebooks alludes that he has had relations with a female member of the Teragen (if I recall corectly).

3. Focus on Divis. The Continuum has always been about the Aeon Society and the "Inspired" of each age. Unfortunately KB love of Divis make him the hero and Aeon the villian. This, if anything, was my biggest problem with Aberrant.

[Femme Darkle]

I have to agree with Defender in his assessment that Mal is far from untouchable. He was able to defeat Pax in WWII but that was in a fight with one opponent flushed on his own arrogance and invincibility. Against a co-ordinated group of quantum 4-6 to novas he could easily fall to a surprise attack. Even mastery 2 defences can falter when Disrupted, hit with Merged attacks and/or genetically tailored bio-weapons.

The point is that a group of moderately powerful and well coordinated novas would have to be willing to risk their lives in an all out assualt against a very powerful nova of uncertain capabilities. Their just isn't a group in cannon that really fits the bill. Except for Pax most of T2M have better things to do than risk the whole organisation to go after someone who shows no signs of being an immediate threat. There are enough battle-maddened Elites and murderous terats before that rate higher than a mysterious philosopher. The Directive don't know enough, DeVries fon't care and Proteus can't risk the exposure fielding every major agent they have to be sure of getting him.

As far as him being the hero goes, that's a very dubious proposition. Given that Teragen more or less states he will condone a Night of Long Knives we have a man willing to see his own followers murder each other for his favour. He is so paralysed by his need to be loved and not to be alone that he won't take a moral stance with the power at his disposal. As Primoris he was an idealist who wanted to better the world. By the Aberrant timeline he has refused responsibility for it and even refuses to truly lead the people he has created. Rather than lead the One Race to its glorious potential he is waiting to see what everyone else does and then jump on the bandwagon just to be sure that this time he _is_ one of the gang. Aeon may have turned to dark paths over the years but it does these terrrible things for the greater good. The world has never faced a threat as great as the potential misuse of nova powers and what means are really to far to go to ensure the survival of the whole human race? The point is that some elements ahve come to value the power they wield more than the ends to which it is meant to be wielded. Even then there are still dissenters asnd a chance to pull back from the brink. The Aberrant age is Aeon maturation from it innocent childhood in the era of Adventure, a time of painful adolescence whose lessons go on to shape the older, wiser Trinity.

As for the bi- thing, the female Terat mentioned is Narcosis and the affection is al on her part, not Mal's. He _might_ be bi rather than gay but his relationship with Scripture means there is likely to be little chance to find out in the near future.

[Dr. Arcturus]

Whoa....

This is about my fiftieth time reading this thread, and I have JUST noticed...Sidious, you killed Divis Mal in your game?!

You have to tell me how!

[Guest]

One thing that hasn't beeen mentioned is the Relation ship between Michael Donighal (Mal) and Aeon, particularly Maxwell. The whole point of Adventure from the stand point of Aberrant is that Donighal helps form the Aeon Society only to be see its limitations and leaves to achive his own goal (which are adverse to the Society). Those of you who have Adventure Should re-read Donighal's Letter with Max's responses with this in mind: The responses which Donighal is getting is from a mentor-like figure who is putting down all of his objections, without fully explaining his reasoning. Hence it should be no surprise that Donighal leaves Aeon and be at odds with them.

How does this apply to aberrant?

Well, Donighal has achived his goal to enlighten humanity and is now basking in the light of it as Divis Mal. Like it or not, Mal is the failure of The Aeon's society.

[Matt]

I enjoyed him as a spook story in Trinity. I think he is sort of an interestingly flawed character in Adventure. I guess my verdict is still out on him for Aberrant until we find out what happens at the Ultimatum. He has lost his humanity in the Aberrant era, which I guess is understandable considering what he is. I am curious if anyone will be able to make something more out of him. I've always felt that he is too much like Magneto.

Grash, why do you say that he is Aeon's future? He has his time in the sun, but he is long gone by Trinity.

[Guest]

**for the record I do not hate Mal because KB likes him.

I hate Mal because KB has made his little pet an extension of himself that is, in cannon, involitile to change/harm/consequences.**

Sidious seems to me to really have a problem with Mal's sexual status. Something you uncomfortable with?

Glad you killed his punk ass? As a ST or as a player? Let's examine the completly arrogant and lack of ST ability that is laced in that one comment.

Kill his punk ass

As a GM if you kill off a major player in a game you are running, with that sort of attitude (I am sure it was handled with the utmost care "he dies of some sexually transmitted desease", tactful, really), you take away from the setting you are in, and worst give your Players the go ahead to react the same way as you do.

Kill his punk ass

As a Player, HOW THE HELL DO YOU KILL HIM?! Yeah, I am sure there are like a hundred different ways to do it, but the point is you are not supposed to. Your ST must suck.

Now let's look at your reasons for disliking his motivations....you think fear of being alone is a boo who thing? I think that this one act goes a long way to explain Mal as a whole. Mal seems to be patterned a little after Magneto. In other words, with a little more going on than 'kill the humans!'.

I am sorry if I sound a little peeved, I just find when people say IHATE

and use "just because he's gay' in the same statement, it speaks largely of thier...ideas on life.

[Kirby1024]

Hey people come here! This board just attracted it's first Troll! Come here and have a look at this guy

Seriously though, legacy, I'd state that you're seriously misinterpreting what Sidious stated.

Oh, and this board is of the general opinion that it's fine to Roleplay however you want, as long as you're enjoying yourself. The Gamefascist Cyber-ninja Death-Squads don't make regular visits here, and a lot of Aberrant games told around here seriously veer out of canon.

Besides, Even WW say that the setting isn't exactly perfect, and you're free to change whatever the damn hell you want. Don't want Mal in the game? Poof, he's gone! I know a lot of people here have killed The Apostle in their games.

So, put bluntly, we sooooo do not care about canon. We only care about enjoying ourselves. We destroy canon on a regular basis.

Oh, and welcome to the boards. Enjoy your stay...

[The Ranger]

I'm not exactly a fan of Mal myself. He reminds me of a GMs "favourite NPC"; all powerful and invulerable. Any spark of life the character possesses is elcipsed by silly level of power he has. A little less raw power and a little more character would suit Mal better. Subtle is not a word in the WW vocabulary.

I just have the feeling that somebody created Mal with a computer formula: He needs to be hip and cutting edge and different ergo we make him much more ancient than any other nova (Heck it worked for Vampire. The late victorian age is cool right?) then we make him gay (Because it is different and interesting right?) then we add in ALL THE POWER IN THE UNIVERSE (Thats cool isn't it?).

To me Mal is just plain old boring. To tell the truth there are few characters in the main timeline that interest me. I like Corbin (just 'cos he feels more real than most), Anteaus (who couldn't love the big turd?), Superbeast (for showing that form and function don't follow), Andy Vance (Dunno why, I guess its that normal bloke thing). I can't think of a famale character I liked (Possibly Shrapnel for the kewl powerz and fucked up personality) but thats prolly because I'm in a hurry. Anyone else got favourites and why?

[Kane Knight]

Do I hate him?

No.

Why? BEcause he's fictional. Not only does that mean he's not worth that level of emotional response, it also means that as far as my games go, he's my bitch.

That's right, he's whatever I want him to be. If I don't like something, I change it. Without hesitation.

Unlike the Antes and the other ubers from White Wolf, there is reason to have him around and present in the game, reason to actually flesh him out, reason to really get into his character.

Do I love the Canon Divis Mal? Naw. But the raw concept, and all it's potentials...It's a total geek fest for me.

[Guest]

Has anyone seen the stats of Divis? I know there is some book that gives suggested powers and quantum rating. Just curious.

[Kirby1024]

Well, no official ones. Divis Mal is not likely to ever be given official stats. They put the suggested powers up there because Divis Mal is supposed to be massively far above the players.

However, somewhere on the forums there is a set of unofficial stats for him. Try using the search engine...

[SpartanClear]

phase one book

quantum of eight and plasma control

all mega atts of at least three and a couple that are higher

and lots and lots of enhancements and extras...

[Kane Knight]

Quote:

Originally posted by SpartanClear:
phase one book
quantum of eight and plasma control
all mega atts of at least three and a couple that are higher

and lots and lots of enhancements and extras...

Yup. They partially stat him. More or less a "here's his power theme, he has lotsa stuff, make him as badass as fits your story" license.

I too doubt that he will ever be fully statted.