Jageresque.

[Wakinyan]

Given his betrayal of Wakinyan I have now seriously began looking at the clash that is coming between the two characters IC unless something is done to relieve the pressure of the recents events.

Obviously Waki just isnt strong enough to do this on his own. However Jager has made many enemies over the years. Epoch, Geryon, Leviathan, pretty much all of the Harvesters and Nova Vigilance. Including forum characters. Ashnod, Apep, Hugin just to name a few. I think it is time for his history to catch up with him. Waki is going to propose to all of those he knows Jager has had conflict with to deal with him once and for all.

Now we might face a consent issue here as it deals with a likely nonconsent issue and I suppose when or if this story would come about we need to decide either by player vote or Directors on if consent will be overriden or not.

[z-Carver]

Waki,

I'm going to err on the side of caution here. Player consent should never, ever be removed. If you have IC problems with Jager, you should talk to him about a story that deals with those. Jager has said that he'll let Jager be defeated for the right story. Find out what that is, and work with him.

If there's a player vote, you have mine - no to removing player consent for any reason.

Carver

[Wakinyan]

Once again I know people are going to choose consent because they are fearful for their own characters but the fact remains. You go about beating up powerful people and pissing people off for years and know there is no consequence to it but your own consequence it makes you lose perspective and also influences your RP. If you can get away with anything then nothing will stop you from doing what you like.

Will Waki pay a price for this? Most likely. Jager obviously has Allies even more than just the WCK but it is time we have a bit less Care Bear Love in and more Aberrant to this place.

[z-Carver]

"Care Bear Love?" Waki, what you are talking about is one of the basic rules of this place - don't mess with other people without their consent.

If you don't want Jager getting involved in your shit, then tell him that. I'm sure he'll respect your right to refuse consent. Let Jager police himself, knowing that people are pissed at what he's doing, and what he's letting his people get away with. That's his choice.

And I applaud the fact that you're making sure that what happens to Waki comes back to haunt him. I admire that you're that honest to the natural reactions that would occur.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
Once again I know people are going to choose consent because they are fearful for their own characters but the fact remains. You go about beating up powerful people and pissing people off for years and know there is no consequence to it but your own consequence it makes you lose perspective and also influences your RP. If you can get away with anything then nothing will stop you from doing what you like.

That's the territory of the Directors to decide, not the players. It's not outrageous to propose that everyone here would be more confident in the Directors making an impartial decision to help guide a character's progress as opposed to allowing mob rule that's based on anything but impartiality and fairness.

Who knows, the Directors might surprise you.

[Wakinyan]

Well then I guess what I should say is.

Time for the Directors and Chosen to step up on this.

We need a revision on how consent works. When it does and doesn't protect us.

[Singularity]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
We need a revision on how consent works. When it does and doesn't protect us.

The FAQ already has a general clause about it, though it mostly involves Proteus as an example. It might serve things better to ask whether Jager's survival has reached a level of "disbelief" equal to someone trying to out Proteus without getting killed.

And, again, the Directors are already the ones who make that decision.

[Ian 'Very Bad' Blakely]

Well, I'm one for not pulling consent. I am also one for trying to have characters live with the consequences of their actions. Prodigy was humiliated, Vile Bill killed, Gerry had to quit Utopia, etc. Now, if you feel a player isn't following through on there being consequences to their actions you can simply decide not to interact with the character and/or the player.

Basically, we can act upon other's characters "without their consent" in a very specific way. It's called shunning. Don't involve yourself with any other player whom you think is being abusive. If you can convince others to do the same you will in effect be robbing that person of the ability to piss you off.

[Wakinyan]

VB you have a point and I think in the future any fictions that I involve myself in will have to be 'mutual consent' prior to the story beginning.

I suspect that will make me very lonely but it is the only easy solution to this problem.

,,

I would still like Chosen the the Dirs to come in on this however.

[z-Carver]

Define mutual consent. Does that mean if I do a fiction with you then I can't say, "No, I don't want you to do this, and this and this?" If that's the case, then you could have taken Carver's scalp and I wouldn't have been able to stop you. You could have also taken her where ever you wanted and kept her as your prisoner for weeks. Is that what you mean?

The point here is to have fun - having my character damaged like that would not be fun.

[Neil Preston]

If people have a good story for Jager getting his ass kicked, I'm game.

Now, I would be interested as to why certain people would take the risk of hunting Jager down, outside of Wakinyan, that is.

Apep and Jager last parted on decent terms. I don't know of any specific cause for Hugin, or Ashnod to want Jager dead, but they can speak for themselves. Geryon is actually a friend of Jager's but only a handful of people know this. Leviathen murdered multiple of Jager's associates in retaliation for the attack on another Terat.

Also, didn't Levi and Geryon just kick Waki's ass a few months back?

And they want to attack Jager why? Because he endangered Wakinyan's life for a few moments in Chicago?

NV? What has Jager done to imprison/oppress novadom? Attacking WCK is not exactly their cup of tea, unless you want to equate WCK to T2M.

The Harvesters? How is Jager harming/hunting/whatever tainted novas?

Jager didn't go after Wakinyan because he is tainted. He went after him because Wakinyan behaved badly ... on the Opnet, for that matter.

I would point out that I have written one fiction were Apep and Jager went round and round (in combat) and Jager was hurt.

Carver has written a story were she hit Jager. She caught him off-guard and hit him, though she didn't hurt him. She wasn't trying to.

Wakinyan wanted to knock Jager out of the fight and I didn't buy the "I'm attacking you berserkly" as a good enough reason. I apologize for not finding a better compromise, but I have to work long hours right now and don't have much time to post during the week.

[Noir]

I think people might need "friendly reminders" on occasion about possible consiquences. That way you do not 'force' something, you do not take away consent or anything. I believe everybody here are basically good people and RPers. Anybody can get caught up in things though and sometimes just a friendly reminder is all that is really needed to make somebody go, "Oh yeah!".

And I bet if you went to somebody with a story idea for how the consiquences might catch up with their character, they would more than likely be game.

~Noir

[Troy]

Here's a slightly different opinion: I think the Department of Defense would have deployed three or four Special Operation Unit teams while putting cruise missiles on ready alert stand-by for a surgical strike out of the Great Lakes area of Michigan.

Utopia may still have the backing of the United Nations and grassroots support, but "superheroes" in Chicago or novas running amok?

Body bag filler.

[April Rice]

... or not.

The WCK is associated with the city of Chicago. They're just as legit as any civic defender, and on much better terms with the USG than Utopia.

And, also, the entire sequence took less than a minute, which is a shade slower than the response time of the Department of Defense.

[Troy]

And your point is?

Quality overkill takes time. If it were easy, everybody would have nuclear weapons strapped to their backs and we'd all be a lot more civil to one another.

[April Rice]

Uh-huh ... so you're saying that the military should be showing up to rain down missiles into a crowd of rescue workers and emergency vehicles?

[Troy]

"Yes, senator. We sincerely felt we had to destroy Chicago in order to save it."

No, actually I think everyone with a node should find they have their own personal dark cell with no view in which to practice their meditation skills while waiting on a man in a uniform to ask them questions.

We've had people in cells for years just waiting while we decide what questions we want to ask them.

[Wakinyan]

Quote:

Originally posted by Neil Preston:
Wakinyan wanted to knock Jager out of the fight and I didn't buy the "I'm attacking you berserkly" as a good enough reason.

There isn't a matter of a reason to disagree with or not. You chose not to get hit there was no random factor to it. "Jager is older and power powerful" was your only reason. Sorry it doesn't work like that.

As for the reasons to hunt Jager everyone who would want to or not is up to them. Wether Waki takes the IC reason for Jager's betryal is still up in the air as well.

[Wakinyan]

And no the directive nor the USG would not have employed the OMEN prototype in the middle of Chicago. That was discussed and rejected early on.