Group Fictions

[Jager]

On the question of Group Fictions, I am wondering why some of us participate in them, and others do not.

For instance, when deciding whether or not to join a group fiction, what do you, as a poster consider?

What kind of fictions are we interested in?

Do we want our fictions to effect the gaming world?

Do we want solely-rping fictions, where it is more of a group of novas doing personal things and talking?

Do we believe in limiting fictions, such as keeping our characters safe from harm/ deciding how badly we get hurt in a given situation, or would we consider it more of an open question to be decided by either concensus, or a mod?

[Hugin]

I particpate in fictions that make sense for my character to participate in. So Prodigy rarely ever joined in. If it doesn't make sense for my character to be at a particular place or doing a particular thing then I'm not going to shoe-horn them into the story just to have fun.

I'm also not usually interested in fictions that either don't seem to have a purpose, a goal, that is set out at the very begining. If it seems like just another excuse to get together I'm not so interested.

I may also not be interested in interacting with a particular player in that particular setting for one reason or another.

I also have to admit that the normal course of people simply letting the fictions die really has dimished my desire to not just engage in the fictions but read them. Nothing so bad as getting into a story and then one or two folks give up on it and jackknife the whole thing.

[Timeslip]

Honestly? I participate in fictions:

* where my character has a reason to participate,

* where it looks like it will be fun to do so, and

* when I'm not completely exhausted from Real Life ™.

[Magus]

Where one of my characters has a reason to participate and the story tells something that might be of interest to the people here as readers. If that were not the case I wouldn't be posting the story here to begin with.

"What kind of fictions are we interested in?"

Ones that add depth to the world. Quite a bit of what I see is really nothing more than simple laundry list narrative of feats camouflaged as a "story".

"Do we want our fictions to effect the gaming world?"

I want my fictions to affect you [the reader]. If I can that, then I've affected the world more profoundly than with any die roll a character could make.

"Do we want solely-rping fictions, where it is more of a group of novas doing personal things and talking?"

As opposed to what?

In all seriousness I would like to know what you consider the alternatives before I answer that question.

Do I want to see fifteen paragraphs dedicated to "the character makes a roll that couldn't be failed on the worst day of his life anyway"?

Not really.

[Ashnod]

Quote:

Originally posted by Jager:
On the question of Group Fictions, I am wondering why some of us participate in them, and others do not.

For instance, when deciding whether or not to join a group fiction, what do you, as a poster consider?

What kind of fictions are we interested in?
Do we want our fictions to effect the gaming world?
Do we want solely-rping fictions, where it is more of a group of novas doing personal things and talking?

Do we believe in limiting fictions, such as keeping our characters safe from harm/ deciding how badly we get hurt in a given situation, or would we consider it more of an open question to be decided by either concensus, or a mod?

Usually, I look for something that's going to interest my PC's. For example, nothing that's taken place on the Hikari Maru II should involve my PC's, so I feel no need to force them into the fic.

Bailey's little gathering fic, on the other hand, did have interest for Ash and so she was there.

I normally don't participate for the sake of participating. I feel it belittles my characters to have them attend gatherings they would not go to, or to have them put into situations they should not be in, simply so I can play.

[Singularity]

Like everyone else, I tend to pick my group fictions based on character reasons. Part of me enjoys interaction, another is marvelled with collaborative storytelling (no pun intended), and I at least make some kind of effort at policing my signal to noise ratio.

I also think it's worthwhile to point out the unique place group fictions hold here. To analogize (shut up, I can't help it), they remind me of "off nights" when I was a LARPer. People would go out to the game location, pick up their influences for the week, do the regular check-in with the people running the game, and then go out to interact. Most nights nothing major would happen, just characters talking, quietly plotting, or cleaning up a botched feeding (for the Vampire games). But some nights big things would happen. Characters would spring long-prepared plots into action, or the narrators would have a devilish event planned (ooo, that was a fun trick to play), or - and this is what I think is applicable here - the right combination of characters would get together and some amazing roleplaying and character development would happen. Whole character arcs could change, alliances forged or broken, dead vampires/werewolves/whatnot... all because people just wanted to get together and interact/roleply. For me, some of the group fictions seem like "off nights."

And... yea, I lost my train of thought so I'm going to quit before I make it worse.

[Jager]

As opposed to what?

In all seriousness I would like to know what you consider the alternatives before I answer that question.

Fictions with a set goal (such as getting married).

Fictions that involve novas in conflict (Costas being hunted down and killed)

Fictions involving exploring in a physical medium (going to Io perhaps)

and I am sure there are others.

RPing happens in any/all of the above, but it shares the stage with the plot in the story. I also believe there are stories were there is no plot, just RPing with no pre-conceived goal.

[Magus]

Those don't seem to be alternatives so much as changes in scenery. My answer to your question is that we're talking about two different things.

Stories generally have a beginning, a middle and ending with certain things that should happen within those boundaries...

1. In the beginning:

Show the main characters, or at least foreshadow them; we might see your heroine’s mother getting married, for example. Or we might see a crime committed which will bring in your hero to investigate.

Show one or more characters under some kind of appropriate stress. For example, if the hero must perform well under enemy fire in the climax, show him being shot at in Chapter One—and performing badly. If the heroine must resist temptation at the end, show her (or someone else) succumbing to temptation in the beginning. This allows the reader to identify with the character. Explaining that its "hard" or "difficult" means nothing if its only a narrative that something is hard or difficult.

Show us who's the “good guy,” who’s the “bad guy.” That is, in whom should we make an emotional investment? Whose side are we on? Even if the hero is morally repugnant (a hired killer, for example), he should display some trait or attitude we can admire and identify with. The villain can be likable but set on a course we must disapprove. Power and high quantum is not an attitude or trait suffice to generate admiration in the reader.

Show what’s at stake. What does the hero stand to gain or lose? What will follow if the villain wins? If there is no gain and loss then there is no story and I can spend my morning making blueberry pancakes for the family instead of reading a laundry list narrative of how Uberman once again foils the forces of darkness.

Establish the setting; where and when the story takes place, although ambiguity has a places in select fictions.

Establish the area of conflict: If the setting is the Nanaimo coal mines at the turn of the century, the area of conflict may be relations between miners and owners, or within a family of miners, or within a single miner's personality.

Foreshadow the ending. If the hero dies in a blizzard at the end, a few flakes of snow may fall in the first chapter.

Set the tone of the story: solemn or excited, humorous or tragic.

2. In the middle:

Tell your story in scenes, not in exposition. A scene contains a purpose, an obstacle or conflict, and a resolution that tells us something new about the characters and their circumstances.

Develop your characters through action and dialogue. Show us, don’t tell us, what’s going on and why (not He was loud and rude, but “Get outa my way, you jerk!” he bellowed.).

Include all the elements you need for your conclusion. If everything depends on killing the victim with a shotgun, show us the shotgun long before it goes off.

Give your characters adequate motivation for their actions and words. Drama is people doing amazing things for very good reasons. Melodrama is people doing amazing things for bad or nonexistent reasons.

Develop the plot as a series of increasingly serious problems. (The heroine escapes the villain in Chapter 5 by fleeing into the snowy mountains; now in Chapter 6 she risks death in an avalanche.)

Establish suspense by making solution of the problems uncertain (How will the heroine escape the avalanche and avoid freezing to death in Chapter Seven?). Consider this a reason why high quantum characters are boring protagonists, most especially when the story concentrates on their strengths to the point it becomes axiomatic they have no weaknesses or underveloped areas.

Make solutions of the problems appropriate to the characters (Good thing she took Outward Bound training in Chapter One).

3. In the end:

Present a final, crucial conflict when everything gained so far is in danger and could be lost by a single word or deed: this is the climax, which reveals something to your readers (and perhaps to your characters) which has been implicit from the outset but not obvious or predictable.

4. Throughout the story:

Remember that nothing in a story happens at random. Why? Because you deliberately took the time to scribe the description ergo you did so for a reason. Why is the heroine’s name Sophia? Why is she blind? Why is her dog a black Lab? The easy answer is that you’re the God of your novel and that’s the way you want things. But if you have a conscious reason for these elements, the story gains in interest because it carries more meaning: For example, “Sophia” means “wisdom” and the name can provide a cue to the reader.

Use image, metaphor and simile with a conscious purpose, not just because a phrase “sounds good.”

Maintain consistent style, tone, and point of view.

Know the conventions of the form you’re working in, and break them only when you have a good reason to. For example, if it’s conventional for the private eye to be an aggressive, hard-drinking single man, you’re going to shake up the reader if your private eye is a yogurt-loving, shy mother of three school-age children.

[Hugin]

Very nice Psimon. Thanks for the lesson. However, I suspect that blueprint isn't really applicable for most of the group fictions here. They seem to be done as individuals, with relatively little communication between the artists. Just my opinion there.

[Jager]

Psimon, am I to take it this is your definition of the kind of fictions you would want to be a part of, or is it something else?

[Magus]

Jeger:

General story construction synopsis for those that may be unfamiliar. It varies a little with the genre, especially short stories versus full length novels.

You felt your alternatives were a different type of story, I feel they're window dressing to a particular story and relevent only in the context of the story they're a part of therefore not a different type of story. That answer wouldn't have made a great deal of sense if I hadn't shared my thoughts of what a story really is. As I said at the beginning of that:

"Those don't seem to be alternatives so much as changes in scenery. My answer to your question is that we're talking about two different things."

Prodigy:

The fiction is an uneven mix in my opinion. Actual story versus laundry list narrative with a couple of really gifted pieces that initially appear to be nothing more than narrative yet stand revealed as story by the end.

The blueprint was applicable to the first of the collaborative fictions. You may remember during the OWW email flurries we talked about it at several points. We didn't always follow it but we did discuss it.

[Gypsy]

Quote:

Remember that nothing in a story happens at random. Why? Because you deliberately took the time to scribe the description ergo you did so for a reason. [/QB]

Of the narrow minded thing I have heard in a wile I have to say this one is the most diseving one. Not everything in a story has to have a meaning. The color of a shirt could be meaninglessly and truly random. The Name of a character could be thought of on the spot because they needed a name. Nothing more or less. You do not have to have meanings in everything you write. Some times in stories and lives things just are. Why is she called Jane? Why shouldn't she be?

Going deeper into this that everything has meaning and name. Let me see if you remember this “A rose by...”. The whole point of that poem was that not everything has to have a meaning. Names do not make characters. Calling Jane, Mary will not change her in meaningful way. Or it least doesn't have to. It could, but it doesn't have to. The fact that Jane like red over blue doesn't make the story better or worse. Basically what I am trying to say is that, saying everything has to have a meaning is rather absurd and pointless. It is on level with we shouldn't talk about anything other life or death issues.

[Magus]

Ezra, the collection of words you post does not exist on the level of Platonic ideal. You did not channel it from the thought patterns of antediluvian magician-gods of Atlantis, nor was it bequeathed to you through the force from intelligent stars or a microscopic civilization of culturally advanced paramecium. You chose the detail. Ergo it is not random. The fact that the name of a particular character has no siginificance to your story beyond identifying the character is the significance underlying the name.

On a related note; you can in fact write something that runs counter to most, though not all, of the ideas I mentioned above. However, at the end of the day is it really a story or just a collection of words?

[Gypsy]

You are acting like an old German scientist.I could go off on tangents that based on a few crack pot theories. But I will simply put this down to this, not random is not the same as meaningful.

I do not disagree with you in the larger points, but when ti comes down to it, not every letter in every book shapes the story. That is far from saying that everything has to be meaningless and pointless it just means that things sometimes can and are pointless and meaningless.

As for philosophical stand point,I'll leave that to you and what ever gods you do not do believe in.

[Magus]

The god of disbelief in question would be Mckenzie the lesser; demi-god of those who choose to draw their philosophical line in the sand on life when the pizza delivery man shows up 30 seconds late as measured by the atomic clock in Boulder, Colorado.

Tools in the kit, Ezra.