opnet [OpNet] What's the big deal?

[Edison]

Fuck CoMA, they won't even sit down and have coffee with me.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ptesan-Wi:
It isn't the sort of church one seeks out because of a general spiritual questing; it's a single-issue church, and in the case of CoMA, that issue is to defame, denounce, and - in all to many instances - destroy those of us who are novas.

No, that's not the entire story. As Carver has already noted; its possible for some to seperate the truth from the fiction, the facts from the emotions. Others find these tasks difficult, ocassionally to the point of impossibility.

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:
Carver's expereices with CoMA were at best 50/50...

Hence the description as "not entirely negative" chosen with care.

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:
How many novas do you know that require a car and cannot change their own tire?

I don't have enoght data on the nova Toon to even guess at motivations or veracity but in answer to your question I know three off the top of my head. One of them couldn't manage so much as an egg timer without a detailed instruction manual. Genius in any endeavor rarely translates well to other fields. When was the last time you tried plotting a navigational vector from Houston to Deimos in your head?

[Ptesan-Wi]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Micro:

Quote:

Originally posted by Ptesan-Wi:
It isn't the sort of church one seeks out because of a general spiritual questing; it's a single-issue church, and in the case of CoMA, that issue is to defame, denounce, and - in all to many instances - destroy those of us who are novas.

No, that's not the entire story. As Carver has already noted; its possible for some to seperate the truth from the fiction, the facts from the emotions. Others find these tasks difficult, ocassionally to the point of impossibility.

And as I already noted, those that do manage to separate the truth from the fiction either give up on the truth and wind up back in the fold, or wind up leaving CoMA (alive or dead; remember to ask Carver what happened to the young man that she met).

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ptesan-Wi:
And as I already noted, those that do manage to separate the truth from the fiction either give up on the truth and wind up back in the fold, or wind up leaving CoMA (alive or dead; remember to ask Carver what happened to the young man that she met).

Owen died, and it was at the hands of his fellow church members. Owen's family was hard-core, and Owen himself had done some pretty awful things. However, if he was able to see the truth, then I have hope that others will as well.

In a way, it is the sort of church where you recieve spiritual questing, it is what they seek that is the problem. But most of the members are as Tommy Micro described them - willing to simply leave us alone. Those that don't should be arrested and charged, but there is no need to hate the entire organization. Love it and laud it? Certainly not. It is a religion based on fear. But every attack against them, like that church hit not too long ago, only reinforce their beliefs that we are demons.

I have been attacked three times by them, but I still realize that those attacks were done by individuals, not the church itself. I respect their right to fear and hate me, so long as that is all they do to me.

[tOoN]

Quote:

Originally posted by Satyr:
How many novas do you know that require a car and cannot change their own tire?

I was wearing ballet heels and my beayooootiful and bestest cocktail dress. There was a birthday cake and a gun too.

I'm a lady ya big dorkus.

[Y.T.]

Here I was talking about Protestants, catholic, Baptists , Unitarians, Lutherans, Born again , Evangelical. If you think the Church of Michel the arch-angel is higher up on those lists then well, someone likes cults a bit to much.

You Syter like many people seem to use the word pagan, in it's Christian meaning. Not that big of a deal, but using it that way you lump together any religion that is not Christianity or at least monotheistic. So saying ask three pagans could mean asking someone who call out to Mars, Thor, Loci, Pan, Kali or Ba'al. These gods do not come from the same cultures, times and some never even ran into each other.

[Wakinyan]

The next time CoMA bothers me or mine will be the last. It is bad enough that I had to swallow them attacking Flicker and GMoT but I did.

I am vigilant of them and I will hold true to my word to them if they come at me again.

[Tarot]

Just try to crank the unrelated mayhem down a notch.

Wow. Deja vu. This is the same kind of thing we talked about the first time we met.

[Satyr]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
Here I was talking about Protestants, catholic, Baptists , Unitarians, Lutherans, Born again , Evangelical. If you think the Church of Michel the arch-angel is higher up on those lists then well, someone likes cults a bit to much.

You Syter like many people seem to use the word pagan, in it's Christian meaning. Not that big of a deal, but using it that way you lump together any religion that is not Christianity or at least monotheistic. So saying ask three pagans could mean asking someone who call out to Mars, Thor, Loci, Pan, Kali or Ba'al. These gods do not come from the same cultures, times and some never even ran into each other.

Did you read my post or what? CoMA made an attempt on my life and they consider themselves Christian and therefore worthy of mention. I was also talking about all of those denominations as well, everything until I mention CoMA by name is speaking of those other denominations.
I was sighting example, none of those denominations have ever to my knowledge ever made an attempt on my life, some 'Born agains' have spit upon me for no other reasons than my appearance and possibly my faith.
Don't get me wrong I have friends that are Christian, I simply don't use my religion to slap them in the face, and they show me the same courtesy.
I've shared pints with a Catholic and a Protestant on occasion. I bring up CoMA because as a nova, they come up in conversation even here across the pond, not as often as the question of the Troubles, but often enough. By the way: I love cults, especially my own.

Is there a reason you're analyzing a joke as though it is literal fact? Of course that's the punch line of it, but given that Catholisism turned the majority of those dieties into demons in it's cosmology, I wager that they've all 'met eachother'. Given that some Christians wouldn't know a Shaman from a Druid, I and most other pagans or neopagans use the term (which is Christian in origin and in it's original usage somewhat insulting and only became more so during the Inquisition) as a blanket so that others will understand what we are about without us explaining terms like: Zoastrianism, Ásatrú, or Wicca.

P.S. Loki hates it when you spell his name with a 'c'.

[Tarot]

Hey dude, maybe she's talking about Loci the god of space portals leading to really unlikely but very cool places. I use to have a statue of Loci sitting my living room but that's another story. One involving a diva pop star, 2 Utopian schmucks, a deck of cards and an elite chick with a rad tat. This probably isn't the right thread to be telling the tale.

[Gerald Haney]

There isn't any situation where that is appropriate unless we are all heavily medicated.

[Tarot]

I got your back. Let me make a couple of calls.

[Tekk One]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
The next time CoMA bothers me or mine will be the last. It is bad enough that I had to swallow them attacking Flicker and GMoT but I did.

I am vigilant of them and I will hold true to my word to them if they come at me again.

I couldn't have put that into any better words.

[DigiGeist]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
The next time CoMA bothers me or mine will be the last. It is bad enough that I had to swallow them attacking Flicker and GMoT but I did.

I am vigilant of them and I will hold true to my word to them if they come at me again.

I'd have to concur. After they tried to kill Carver, I had to take care of a few issues they caused in the process. I've had my entanglements with them myself, and if I have to deal with them again in any manner other than cordial banter (which entails a nice round of fisticuffs), they will meet the business end of my wrath. No doubt about it.

[z-Carver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Wakinyan:
The next time CoMA bothers me or mine will be the last. It is bad enough that I had to swallow them attacking Flicker and GMoT but I did.

I am vigilant of them and I will hold true to my word to them if they come at me again.

Quote:

Originally posted by Tekk One:
I couldn't have put that into any better words.

Quote:

Originally posted by Samuel 'DigiGeist' Davison:
I'd have to concur. After they tried to kill Carver, I had to take care of a few issues they caused in the process. I've had my entanglements with them myself, and if I have to deal with them again in any manner other than cordial banter (which entails a nice round of fisticuffs), they will meet the business end of my wrath. No doubt about it.

Because beating up or killing baselines always makes them realize that they shouldn't be afraid of you.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

For for the benefit of novas such as Wakinyan and Digigeist, I'd like to provide the following factoids again as it appears this information did not quite transfer:

"[Rferring to the Church of Michael Archangel] True believers number in the hundreds of thousand with tangent or disassociated believers being suspected in numbers ranging from two million to thirty." (Micro)

"I know that this is cold comfort to those who have been attacked and harmed by CoMA, but in the end, they are just people, with hopes and fears, dreams and delusions. Too (sic) package them all in the same box is a disservice to them and to us." (Carver)

"I have been attacked three times by them, but I still realize that those attacks were done by individuals, not the church itself." (Carver)

Thank you for your scrupulous attention.

[Mithril]

Fuck CoMA. Fuck CoMA right in its ear.

Thank you for your scrupulous attention.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Very eloquent.

[Mithril]

About as eloquent as a bullet, I'd say.

[Wakinyan]

Am I going out of my way to find them? No.

Do I seek them harm? No.

But if they provoke the storm again they will reap the whirlwind. It is that simple.

[Preston]

Another pathetic outcome to consider is that it will fall to other novas to defend the lives and freedoms of CoMA members, and if necessary, avenge their dead. I do not expect it will help those novas who cooperate with mankind to regain the lost trust and to allay all the fear generated by a few angry novas, but there are few alternatives for those who value freedom in all its forms.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

I am very glad someone else found it within themself to speak out. Vengeance is not something I invest in but I don't represent everyone. Nor is this about one nova, one church, or one organization no matter how much some would like it to be as simple as that. Novas have been on the planet for longer than... Never mind what I can't prove with empirical evidence. Let's agree novas have proveably been on the planet for nearly two decade. I realize some of us are fairly new to this but isn't it about time we started acting like we more than tragic acccidents waiting to happen?

There's no drama or glory in this conflict. There's only tragedy and bedlam. The future is now, kids. For something new to do we could always try to make it a decent one.

[Leliel]

On the subject of the Church of Michael Archangel...

While it would be somewhat accurate to describe them as a bunch of whack-job zips, the key thing about them is Fanaticism. Fanaticism seems to be a curse both Baseline and Nova are susceptable to.

With regards to whether Baselines and Novas can live together in peace, I have my sincere doubts. There are two factors which lead me to this point.

One is the desire of humans to control, exploit, or destroy anything or anyone they consider different. This has been the case for as long as mankind has existed, and there is no reason to assume this will change.

The second quite frankly is Greed, which in essence could be the worst "Taint" of all. Greed makes Baselines and Novas alike bow down in worship to money. Money, and indeed all material things, are just needed (in some cases) for survival, so one can continue on one's spiritual journey. The worst crime of all is to put money before the soul.

The Null Manifesto states that Novas should take responsibility for their actions. Quite frankly this is a lesson baselines could benefit from as well.

If all on the planet were to start off by taking that little statement of Divis Mal to heart, then maybe there is a basis for peace. Of course, someone will likely hear the words "Divis Mal" and get all PO'd. After all, they KNOW that their way is right, and that Mal is evil....

Thus the whole cycle is propagated. For my part, I'll likely be waiting for that starcraft that has been mentioned earlier.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Leliel:
While it would be somewhat accurate to describe them as a bunch of whack-job zips, the key thing about them is Fanaticism. Fanaticism seems to be a curse both Baseline and Nova are susceptable to.

I find the depth and convoluted degrees of fanatacism more evidenced by some novas in this thread than anything I experienced during my time in the company of the congregations under the banner of the Church of Michael Archangel. My apologies for being blunt but the shoe appears to fit all too well.

[Siggismund Auerbach aka Firedrake]

Quote:

One is the desire of humans to control, exploit, or destroy anything or anyone they consider different. This has been the case for as long as mankind has existed, and there is no reason to assume this will change.

It certainly doesn't seem to change when the human Erupts with a Node.

Stamp their pedal appendage however petulantly they might, the Teragen seem to universally act on the most *base* impulses of the 'baselines' they rail against.

Hate. Fear. Insecurity. A sense of alienation, abandonment and entitlement. It's all there, in all it's after-school-special glory.

Teras is a prettily-wrapped pseudo-intellectual *excuse.* The 'Do as thou wilt' rede with the 'an it harms no one' filed away, making it a license for the sort of destructive and pointless actions that showcase only the sad desperation and self-loathing of it's adherents.

Anyone who truly followed a uniquely Nova viewpoint wouldn't define themselves on how they interact with those who are not Novas, anymore than the bulk of humanity defines itself based on it's interactions with ants. [Yes, there are exceptions among Buddhist practitioners of Ahimsa, but that's what they are. Exceptions, not the rule.]

Nova I am, but I was born human, lived a human life, loved a human wife and when her time came, grieved over her grave. Just because there is a lump of flesh in my brain the size of a quarter doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to abandon my soul and start drinking blood out of skulls.

It is not an obligation, anymore than it is the obligation of a Baseline genius to devote every waking moment to curing cancer, just because she happens to be smarter than her fellows. And yet, I can *choose* to use my talents to help baselines, on my terms. That choice doesn't make me a 'Utopian puppet,' anymore than a man who chooses to be a firefighter is a puppet.

To be a Nova is to be *more* than human.

Why do so many Terats hold themselves to a *lower* standard than they did as men? Why do they insist on behaving like animals? Is that how little they think of themselves?

[Y.T.]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tommy Tomorrow:

Quote:

Originally posted by Leliel:
While it would be somewhat accurate to describe them as a bunch of whack-job zips, the key thing about them is Fanaticism. Fanaticism seems to be a curse both Baseline and Nova are susceptable to.

I find the depth and convoluted degrees of fanatacism more evidenced by some novas in this thread than anything I experienced during my time in the company of the congregations under the banner of the Church of Michael Archangel. My apologies for being blunt but the shoe appears to fit all too well.

People say big things on the opnet.People act with more zeal in such impersonal places than they do in their own home.

[Leliel]

Quote:

Originally posted by Siggismund Auerbach aka Firedrake:

Quote:

One is the desire of humans to control, exploit, or destroy anything or anyone they consider different. This has been the case for as long as mankind has existed, and there is no reason to assume this will change.

It certainly doesn't seem to change when the human Erupts with a Node.

Stamp their pedal appendage however petulantly they might, the Teragen seem to universally act on the most *base* impulses of the 'baselines' they rail against.

Hate. Fear. Insecurity. A sense of alienation, abandonment and entitlement. It's all there, in all it's after-school-special glory.

Teras is a prettily-wrapped pseudo-intellectual *excuse.* The 'Do as thou wilt' rede with the 'an it harms no one' filed away, making it a license for the sort of destructive and pointless actions that showcase only the sad desperation and self-loathing of it's adherents.

Anyone who truly followed a uniquely Nova viewpoint wouldn't define themselves on how they interact with those who are not Novas, anymore than the bulk of humanity defines itself based on it's interactions with ants. [Yes, there are exceptions among Buddhist practitioners of Ahimsa, but that's what they are. Exceptions, not the rule.]

Nova I am, but I was born human, lived a human life, loved a human wife and when her time came, grieved over her grave. Just because there is a lump of flesh in my brain the size of a quarter doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to abandon my soul and start drinking blood out of skulls.

It is not an obligation, anymore than it is the obligation of a Baseline genius to devote every waking moment to curing cancer, just because she happens to be smarter than her fellows. And yet, I can *choose* to use my talents to help baselines, on my terms. That choice doesn't make me a 'Utopian puppet,' anymore than a man who chooses to be a firefighter is a puppet.

To be a Nova is to be *more* than human.

Why do so many Terats hold themselves to a *lower* standard than they did as men? Why do they insist on behaving like animals? Is that how little they think of themselves?

Not all Terats do hold themselves to a "lower" standard. The key core of Teras is that one finds Enlightenment by looking within.

Sadly, there are those Terats which are still looking.

Yes, choosing to help baselines does not make oneself a Utopian puppet. On the other hand, choosing to not "give your all" to help them does not make one a terrorist or criminal either.

I personally help those who i find worthy of my respect. That group includes both Nova and Baseline, Terat and Independent. For me, spending too much time with baselines is distracting to my spiritual advancement. But I can speak for no other Terat.

[Tommy Tomorrow]

Quote:

Originally posted by Y.T.:
People say big things on the opnet.People act with more zeal in such impersonal places than they do in their own home.

That's likely true yet even so it bothers me greatly to consider some might need to believe something so outlandish as a ridiculous theocratic conspiracy. What does it say about someone, let alone someone with a node, when they spend their time reacting to and planning for a circumstance this absurd?